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Favorite faction

The Growing Empire/Imperium
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Crimson Comrades
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Machine Mandate
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The Iron Regime
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The unfinished Wanderers of Chiron concept
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Author Topic: JarlWolf's Custom Factions  (Read 18884 times)

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Offline JarlWolf

JarlWolf's Custom Factions
« on: July 08, 2013, 05:50:41 AM »
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    « Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 07:50:18 AM by JarlWolf »


    "The chains of slavery are not eternal."

    Offline Yitzi

    Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
    « Reply #1 on: July 08, 2013, 06:53:49 AM »
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  • Ok, in terms of gameplay, at least theorizing:
    -The Crimson Comrades are a fairly militaristic faction; morale and support bonuses, and the lack of pacifism until the late game, will do that.  They're not too bad at peacetime, though; with Dem/Green/Knowledge, they're roughly comparable to Deidre at tech, and without losing free minerals at new bases the way most others do when running Dem.  An early former strategy could work well for them; it's the same idea as a Believer builder game, but more so, and without such a large research penalty hampering them.
    They'll probably usually want to run Dem/Planned/Power for most wartime (or Dem/Green/Power if mixing in native life), as they still get maximum support that way.  In extreme cases, they'll want to replace Dem with Fundie, bringing them up to max morale (i.e. one morale-boosting facility and units are elite straight out of the base).  For peacetime, Dem/Green/Knowledge is their best bet for teching, and of course Dem/Planned/Wealth for growth and building.  (For a combination, Dem/Planned/Knowledge is probably best.)
    With future tech, Thought Control tends to not fit with their bonuses very well (though it's notable that they, like the believers, suffer no penalty from Thought Control if they were already planning on running Police State/Power).  Eudaimonia also, despite their preference, is a poor choice, as they lose their morale bonus (which weakens the value of their support bonus.)  Cybernetic can work for them, but has no real advantages beyond what it does for everyone else.
    The Economy penalty is fairly trivial, as they can't run Market anyway.  It does weaken Wealth somewhat, though.
    The Probe penalty is a weakness, but not a large one, especially since they can just support enough units to stack them to avoid subversion.  It makes Knowledge more appealing, since -2 is the minimum relevant amount anyway.

    ---------------
    The Iron Regime is interesting, as they have significant drone problems, but a POLICE score that more than compensates once they have enough units in their bases.

    There are basically two ways to play this.  One is to use the POLICE score as a stability tool, to offset the TALENT penalty, and rely on EFFIC to get a golden age despite the penalty in order to pop boom.  (With -1 growth, they need a golden age to pop boom.)

    The other, and I think this is the better way to play it except for short periods to pop boom, is to run Dem/Market for +2 ECONOMY with +4 EFFICIENCY (an excellent teching combination, as it gives +1 energy/square and the ability to run 100% tech at no penalty), and with +4 POLICE they'll be able to avoid pacifism despite running Market.  (They will need significant psych investment, though, due to the -2 TALENT.)  Throw in their free Power to negate their support penalty and raise MORALE to +3, and they can go on a rampage to force everyone else out of Market so they can get the tech advantage despite not being able to run Knowledge.

    With Future Society, they'll appreciate Eudaimonic for easy pop booms, but other than that don't get any real boosts beyond the usual.  (They can ditch Free Market and use their POLICE to offset Cybernetic instead, but that really accomplishes nothing more than compensate for their inability to run Knowledge...and by that point it's fairly late.)

    ------------
    The Valhallans are likely unplayable.  Tech steal, max morale and then some, and 25% offensive bonus mean they're going to be very offensively focused, and their research and efficiency penalty forces that, whereas -4 POLICE means they face one drone per unit outside their territory, and +1 ECONOMY is a far bigger advantage to a peaceful faction.

    I'd say their best bet is to try to tech to Doctrine:Loyalty and run Police State to mitigate their police problem to a point where they can send troops outside their territory, then use that (with Planned if possible) to go conquer (and they'd better, as Police State cuts their energy down to 0, so they need tech steal to get any techs) until they can grab Green.  At that point, they can run Police State/Green to have at least some teching ability, increasing somewhat more if they run Wealth.  It's still going to be a problematic faction no matter what.
    ------------

    The Imperium is horribly broken.  They can pop boom with barely any effort at all, and have amazing growth even when they don't.  They get +1 energy/square right from the beginning, without the penalties of Free Market.  Their penalties are all fairly minor.  And then they get half-cost hurrying, so they can turn their high energy income to production or tech as they wish.

    Their best bet will probably be Dem/Market/Wealth if they have a substantial number of pacts and treaties, and Dem/Green/Knowledge otherwise.  (They can effectively ignore Green's growth penalty, as they pop boom anyway with a creche and Dem.)

    Quote
    Question: How do I decrease the cost of hurrying? Do I put it at 50% or 150% I am unsure whether which increases or decreases, guessing the former, but I want to be sure.

    I believe 50% decreases the cost.

    -------------------
    The Benevolents are also probably overpowered, though not as much as the Imperium.  As aliens, even +5 ECONOMY isn't really much better than +2 (as they don't get commerce anyway), so they probably can ignore ECONOMY.  With a PLANET bonus and a MORALE penalty, they definitely want to focus native, so their best bet is Dem/Green/Knowledge, allowing them to go for heavy tech and a strong (native) military with not much downside.

    If they're aquatic, they can grab isles of the deep early for even more power.

    -------------------

    The Machines, despite their bonus, will be somewhat mediocre techers due to the ECONOMY penalty, though the EFFICIENCY boost will do a lot to compensate.  Their real bonus, though, is the INDUSTRY and PSI combat bonus.  Native life is also immune to subversion (rendering their PROBE penalty irrelevant), and they won't want to go Market anyway, so they'll want to go Police State/Green/Wealth and use native life (at +5 INDUSTRY, +2 SUPPORT, and a combat bonus as good as the Antimind) to overwhelm everything.

    Offline JarlWolf

    Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
    « Reply #2 on: July 08, 2013, 07:11:06 AM »
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  • Right, I'll probably tinker with the stats of said factions. Mind, I want the Machine Mandate to not be able to use native life too good, I just want them to be less vulnerable.

    As for the Imperium, I can modify them to have more problems.
    Their initial idea is to have large population growth, crazy amounts, but to have bad revolt problems and their military to be somewhat inferior.

    The Benevolents I am aiming to be more of a diplomatic faction, so I might give them another disadvantage to even things out.

    As for the Valhallans, I might remove their research penalties and improve their POLICE by a bit, and maybe switch out their ECONOMY for something else.

    As for your theories on the others I can't verify them with experience, but what you said about the Crimson Comrade's is fairly accurate, though in my play through I tended to avoid Fundamentalism and instead preferred Police State in times of war.

    The reasoning for this is the lower research is very crippling as a militaristic faction, and you want to keep on top if you are using a faction like this. So for policies I normally went like this:

    Democratic, Planned/Green (depends who is in game/situation) and Knowledge during Peacetime, and during war it can alternate, but if I am fully switched to War it'll be Police State, Planned, Power. This way I basically crank out elite units and the industry penalty of power is offset a little bit by Planned. The huge amounts of support granted by Police State and Power basically means I can crank out units with barely any cost. I am aware Eudaimonia is not the best choice for future with the faction, but I chose it as it helps determine the behavior of the faction as an AI, as it will be friendly with Drones and other more egalitarian factions, and be more egalitarian focused.

    If you got any suggestions, I welcome them. Thank you for their analysis thus far.

    « Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 07:45:10 AM by JarlWolf »


    "The chains of slavery are not eternal."

    Offline Yitzi

    Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
    « Reply #3 on: July 08, 2013, 01:24:16 PM »
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  • Right, I'll probably tinker with the stats of said factions. Mind, I want the Machine Mandate to not be able to use native life too good, I just want them to be less vulnerable.

    So ditch the psi bonus, and give them free Trance and Empath instead.  Even so, +4 INDUSTRY is very powerful.  Consider reducing it to +3, and compensating  further by removing their research bonus and giving a -2 penalty (robots are not known for their creativity.)  Add in an 80% hurry cost (they are good at working overtime), and it should have a good character.

    Quote
    As for the Imperium, I can modify them to have more problems.
    Their initial idea is to have large population growth, crazy amounts, but to have bad revolt problems and their military to be somewhat inferior.

    Cut the GROWTH to +2; that's still fairly crazy because it lets them pop boom with just Democracy and a creche.  Remove the ECONOMY bonus (if they want to oppress the citizenry for economic gain, they can do it with Free Market like everyone else), and replace it with +1 INDUSTRY.  Give them -2 MORALE (even the Gaians have -1), and 1 drone per 3 citizens, and an ideology of Free Market and anti-ideology of PLANNED, and it should work better.  They're still serious builders, but with drone and military problems.

    Quote
    The Benevolents I am aiming to be more of a diplomatic faction, so I might give them another disadvantage to even things out.

    The problem is that alien factions don't get as much from diplomacy as non-aliens, as there's no commerce.  I'd say make them human, replace the +3 ECONOMY with +1 ECONOMY and +2 COMMERCE, and replace their -3 MORALE with 50% offense and -4 POLICE.  That way they'll have a hard time fighting even with native life, but get large bonuses for being friendly.

    Quote
    As for the Valhallans, I might remove their research penalties and improve their POLICE by a bit, and maybe switch out their ECONOMY for something else.

    I'd say boost the POLICE to only -2, give them 1 drone per 4 citizens, ditch the ECONOMY bonus, and cut the MORALE bonus to +4 (which is the max with an effect anyway).  Now they've got heavy drone and minor research problems, but are extremely good fighters if they can keep anything near tech parity.

    Quote
    As for your theories on the others I can't verify them with experience, but what you said about the Crimson Comrade's is fairly accurate, though in my play through I tended to avoid Fundamentalism and instead preferred Police State in times of war.

    Police State seems it won't work so well with them before Thought Control, as they're not getting any benefit from that SUPPORT bonus.

    Quote
    The reasoning for this is the lower research is very crippling as a militaristic faction, and you want to keep on top if you are using a faction like this.

    Police State hurts research too; Democracy might be better.  Police State/Planned is actually the worst (worse than Fundie/Planned) unless using heavy specialists, as -4 EFFICIENCY means no energy (and hence no research) except in your capital.

    Quote
    I am aware Eudaimonia is not the best choice for future with the faction, but I chose it as it helps determine the behavior of the faction as an AI, as it will be friendly with Drones and other more egalitarian factions, and be more egalitarian focused.

    To do that, consider giving them an INDUSTRY focus and Democratic preference; that way, they'll tend to go Dem/Planned/Wealth/Eudaimonia, which should be friendly to the egalitarian factions.

    Offline JarlWolf

    Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
    « Reply #4 on: July 08, 2013, 09:40:55 PM »
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  • Yitzi, with your spot on the Police+Planned, Planned does not give any drawbacks to the Crimson Comrades. They don't receive the drawbacks of it, if they use police+planned they'd only get the efficiency drawbacks of police. And when I was playing with police I had over 5+ support, which allowed me to field extremely large armies without mineral penalties.

    Though, I might switch them up. I want to make sure they keep close to their faction ideal, and that might involve me to change their selected ideal. My only question is, what happens if I picked Planned as their selected? How will it affect their behavior?

    When I get some time, I'll check out these changes and see how they do, I like your idea's on the Valhallans especially. Though the Benevolents have to stay as Alien, I just may change out their commerce bonus for something else. They are meant as a unique Alien faction for use, and Green1 needed something new like that so I cannot change that. I will see if I can modify it enough as to where they are more well received by other factions.
    The Robots I can reduce industry a bit, and probably remove some things. I can also change out their research bonuses for what you suggested, but I think I'll keep the Free Prototypes bonus just to make them unique.


    "The chains of slavery are not eternal."

    Offline Yitzi

    Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
    « Reply #5 on: July 08, 2013, 10:03:03 PM »
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  • Yitzi, with your spot on the Police+Planned, Planned does not give any drawbacks to the Crimson Comrades. They don't receive the drawbacks of it, if they use police+planned they'd only get the efficiency drawbacks of police.

    Oh, I missed their Planned impunity.  Yeah, it will help then...but even so, Police State just doesn't give them enough to justify the efficiency penalty.  If I wanted to avoid lagging in research, I'd probably use Democracy (so they can pop boom while they're at it and have good efficiency to further help research); 3 free units per base is still fairly good, and if running Power also then there's literally no downside to Democracy for them.

    Quote
    And when I was playing with police I had over 5+ support, which allowed me to field extremely large armies without mineral penalties.

    5 or even 7 support doesn't let you field armies any larger than 3 does.

    Quote
    Though, I might switch them up. I want to make sure they keep close to their faction ideal, and that might involve me to change their selected ideal. My only question is, what happens if I picked Planned as their selected? How will it affect their behavior?

    They'll favor Planned, and dislike anyone who goes Market or Green.

    Quote
    Though the Benevolents have to stay as Alien, I just may change out their commerce bonus for something else.

    Not sure what; the mechanics of the alien factions are designed to encourage conflict.

    Quote
    The Robots I can reduce industry a bit, and probably remove some things. I can also change out their research bonuses for what you suggested, but I think I'll keep the Free Prototypes bonus just to make them unique.

    Free Prototypes is good for them.

    Offline JarlWolf

    Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
    « Reply #6 on: July 08, 2013, 10:45:37 PM »
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  • Oh, I missed their Planned impunity.  Yeah, it will help then...but even so, Police State just doesn't give them enough to justify the efficiency penalty.  If I wanted to avoid lagging in research, I'd probably use Democracy (so they can pop boom while they're at it and have good efficiency to further help research); 3 free units per base is still fairly good, and if running Power also then there's literally no downside to Democracy for them.

    Hmm.. True. Though the police did help me keep down riots, though I think going democracy with your combination will suit the faction character wise more. The Crimson Comrade's are not an oppressive regime that suppresses it's people. It's major flaws is in how it fights and treats its enemies, the Crimson Comrades are the type to do barbaric tactics against their enemies and aren't afraid to use fear as a weapon. The type of guys who'll place an explosive on a wounded man in a field and as his fellows try to hoist him up he'll detonate. Or the type to put the heads of enemy commanders on pikes and show it off to the enemy. Fighting for their cause whole heartily, but the way they fight is brutal and barbaric.

    5 or even 7 support doesn't let you field armies any larger than 3 does.

    Did not know that. I'll keep that in mind when designing factions as well.


    They'll favor Planned, and dislike anyone who goes Market or Green.

    Hmm... I don't want them to be against Green, as they don't mind environmentalist approaches to the economy if it suits them. It's more of the Free Market capitalist system that they dislike, due to their ideological standpoint. I might make their selected ideology Democratic then, or keep it Eudaimonic.
    Reviewing the ideals, while the Eudaimonic policy does have that -2 MORALE, we also have to remember that the Crimson Comrades get a +1 MORALE off the bat, and combined with social policies such as Power, or Fundamentalism (though I'd avoid Fundamentalism)  will sort of counteract that flaw. Plus by the time the faction will have access to this social policy it will probably have lots of military improvements and such that it can nullify any drawback of such a system. Eudaimonia's benefits will also outweigh it's flaws in that the growth and industry will more then make up for it's flaws, and the 2+ economy will fix the Crimson Comrade's natural flaw of -1 economy.

    Plus, while the Crimson Comrades aren't against Cybernetics, they would definitely be against Thought Control so we may need an ideal in there to prevent that.

    Though on the other hand, having Democratic as their preferred will mean that they will be against Police States and Fundies, which may, or may not help them out in terms of keeping character. It may also debilitate them diplomatically. More thought will be needed on this one.



    Not sure what; the mechanics of the alien factions are designed to encourage conflict.

    Hmm. An idea I had is to make their faction behavior pacifist (the option in face edit - and BUncle is probably reading this, I can't find a download link for AcEdit unfortunately) and then have a lack of anti-ideals. Having no true anti-ideals will make sure they don't start conflicts with people purely on ideals, and I may also do it where they have no selected ideal either. As their only real goal character wise is just to create a peaceful society where humans, progenitors and planet lives in peace, they don't really care how it's done. Whether it's via a police state monitoring things, democratic government where everyone gets a say, or a unifying religion. Or in terms of economics, the allowance of free trade and liberalized economics, or state sponsored programs to keep it's citizens supported and happy, or a green economy to make sure the society is sustainable and friendly with planet.

    So with the lack of anti and selected ideologies, I think they'll come into conflict a lot less.


    "The chains of slavery are not eternal."

    Online BUncle

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    Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
    « Reply #7 on: July 08, 2013, 10:47:53 PM »
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  • Free Prototypes is good for them.
    Free Prototypes makes a kind of story sense, too; when Russian engineers are on their game, they can do some brilliant design work.

    Offline JarlWolf

    Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
    « Reply #8 on: July 08, 2013, 11:01:15 PM »
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  • Free Prototypes makes a kind of story sense, too; when Russian engineers are on their game, they can do some brilliant design work.

    I think you misunderstood who that bonus was for friend, the Free Prototypes is for The Machine Mandate, a Robot faction.

    Though I agree with your statement, and on a side note I was a military engineer. And we had to be pretty innovative in our field.
    The Crimson Comrade's though, like the rest of the factions, aren't sequestered by nationality. Not even the Iron Regime will be defined by ethnicity/Earth nation, just defined by their ultra nationalist ideal for their own faction.


    "The chains of slavery are not eternal."

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    Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
    « Reply #9 on: July 08, 2013, 11:06:21 PM »
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  • ...That's what I get for skimming instead of paying attention...

    Offline JarlWolf

    Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
    « Reply #10 on: July 08, 2013, 11:17:11 PM »
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  • Haha, not an issue. We all make mistakes sometimes, im one of the few that makes them constantly.

    If you got idea's for any of these factions, or even idea's for another faction they are welcome BUncle.


    "The chains of slavery are not eternal."

    Offline JarlWolf

    Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
    « Reply #11 on: July 09, 2013, 06:36:03 AM »
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  • Updated it, the Fascists are nearly ready, just need to add in their audio blurb. (I will not voice this one as I cannot impersonate an English accent, kind of hard for a Russian to do that.) Anyone who wishes to try it is welcome.
    « Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 06:56:00 AM by JarlWolf »


    "The chains of slavery are not eternal."

    Offline sisko

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    Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
    « Reply #12 on: July 09, 2013, 09:56:54 AM »
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  • @JarlWolf: here's the link to AcEdit http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=123

    please note that it is SMAC only, so you'll have to edit SMAX dialogues by hand..
    Anyone else feels like it's time to fix the faction graphics bug?

    Offline JarlWolf

    Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
    « Reply #13 on: July 09, 2013, 10:32:36 AM »
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  • Hm. By hand what do you exactly mean? I am a bit unfamiliar with other aspects of modding/ creating factions without face edit.

    Mind, the other factions are also underway. The new one I am working on will either be the Valhallans or the Imperium. I will release the new factions all in a bundle.

    EDIT: Looked at it, and it says I am missing a file when I try running the .exe, MSVBVM50.DLL.
    « Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 08:22:54 AM by JarlWolf »


    "The chains of slavery are not eternal."

    Offline sisko

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    Re: JarlWolf's Custom Factions
    « Reply #14 on: July 10, 2013, 08:26:07 AM »
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  • i mean using a simple text editor (wordpad, notepad) to edit the dialogues with the alien factions once you generate the .txt files with ACEdit. i think those are the only lines that ACEdit can't read/edit... though i may be wrong..  can't remember..
    Anyone else feels like it's time to fix the faction graphics bug?

     

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