Author Topic: test SMAC AI patch, version l  (Read 9144 times)

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Offline kyrub

test SMAC AI patch, version l
« on: January 13, 2013, 03:12:20 AM »
test SMAC AI patch, version l

http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=122

This is a test build of the patch. Be prepared to see some unwanted AI actions, improving requires a lot of patience and a good perception of AI activity throughout the game (any thorough feedback is appreciated, please react in the appropriate thread in the modding forum).

I have applied a few AI Social engineering choices, mainly the support / police mismatch in the original game.
Also the morale setting is now less valued by the AI.

I included a few important and obvious corrections to previous patch, we should see less probes again, less sea transports etc.



a   uterran4 (terraforming basic)
b  tech_beelines     
c   AI hurrying
d  close base and fungus love from 70
e   unit_abilities_8
f   more ships
g   formers chance
h   crawlers
i    recycle tanks priority
j    speeders inclination

-------------------------
k1  stockpile energy bug
k2  swap base bug
k3  children creche bug
k4  AI hurrybug 3
k5  AI seaformers
k6  colony pods
k7 reversal of near AI cities

----------------------------------------
l8  less probes by
l9  if police =< -4 less ships
l10  less naval tranports 
l11 AI socio version 3
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 07:53:37 AM by sisko »

Offline Green1

Re: test SMAC AI patch, version l
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2013, 08:35:28 AM »
The majority of us on this board do SMAX. You will get more playtesters if any new patches are SMAX compatible.

It may have been an excuse when there were GOG copies running around with only SMAC, but now almost everyone has expansion included.

But, if it cranks in SMAX, I most certainly will try it. You will get screenshots and my dry wit and comment, too :)


Offline Green1

Re: test SMAC AI patch, version l
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2013, 08:38:52 AM »
oh yeah, in AAR2 (version Kyrub's SMAX patch PLUS) I did not believe AI was aggressive enough with air power.

Even with high defense for the base being attacked and lesser guns, if the AI had superior numbers it could have swept the base with all 15 of it's needlejets.

Offline Yitzi

Re: test SMAC AI patch, version l
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2013, 09:22:22 PM »
oh yeah, in AAR2 (version Kyrub's SMAX patch PLUS) I did not believe AI was aggressive enough with air power.

Even with high defense for the base being attacked and lesser guns, if the AI had superior numbers it could have swept the base with all 15 of it's needlejets.

What good does that do it if it loses more in taking the base and then defending it than the enemy loses in defending it and taking it back?

Offline Green1

Re: test SMAC AI patch, version l
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2013, 10:40:17 PM »
oh yeah, in AAR2 (version Kyrub's SMAX patch PLUS) I did not believe AI was aggressive enough with air power.

Even with high defense for the base being attacked and lesser guns, if the AI had superior numbers it could have swept the base with all 15 of it's needlejets.

What good does that do it if it loses more in taking the base and then defending it than the enemy loses in defending it and taking it back?

If he is out manufacturing you, it does not matter. There were several times in that game (AAR2 Roze vs Sven) that he had me. He had maybe 20 needle jets and could have lost 10 to crush me off of a small landmass and taken a project.

BUT.. he was scared to use them because I had cloudbase academy and a +defense vs air. I would have sacrificed 10 needlejets to get it.

Offline Yitzi

Re: test SMAC AI patch, version l
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2013, 10:48:13 PM »
If he is out manufacturing you, it does not matter.

Yeah, if he's outmanufacturing you by more than the loss ratio...but that's not a problem of air power in particular.

Quote
There were several times in that game (AAR2 Roze vs Sven) that he had me. He had maybe 20 needle jets and could have lost 10 to crush me off of a small landmass and taken a project.

BUT.. he was scared to use them because I had cloudbase academy and a +defense vs air. I would have sacrificed 10 needlejets to get it.

It's not worth sacrificing 10 needlejets to get it if he can then sacrifice 5 needlejets to get it back, unless you have twice his production capacity.

Offline Green1

Re: test SMAC AI patch, version l
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2013, 07:35:19 PM »
Oh... he had quite a bit better manufacturing than I did. He out based me, too till late midgame when I backstabbed Deidre.

Now, if he could have used sea crawlers on top of that and use it like the players... goodness. Or put boreholes on adjacent land tiles...

Offline BFG

Re: test SMAC AI patch, version l
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2013, 05:23:34 AM »
Hmm...it's great to see that there's still so much activity around this game.  I had no idea!  Thank you, kyrub.
Like the majority of players, I use SMAX and so would be more likely to test the patch if it were SMAX-compatible.

In the meantime, kyrub, a question: what criteria do you use to decide what AI fixes/improvements to make?  I have three pet peeves in the game, based on my playstyle:
1. AI produces almost no boreholes
2. Gravship Formers cannot be properly automated over both land and sea
3. AI doesn't know how to use aerial transports or colonies - when doing so would greatly improve its strength

I'd love to see you take a shot at fixing these :)

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Re: test SMAC AI patch, version l
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2013, 05:58:14 AM »
Welcome to AC2, BFG!  How did you find us?

Offline Yitzi

Re: test SMAC AI patch, version l
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2013, 04:04:54 PM »
In the meantime, kyrub, a question: what criteria do you use to decide what AI fixes/improvements to make?  I have three pet peeves in the game, based on my playstyle:
1. AI produces almost no boreholes
2. Gravship Formers cannot be properly automated over both land and sea
3. AI doesn't know how to use aerial transports or colonies - when doing so would greatly improve its strength

I'd love to see you take a shot at fixing these :)

Of course, if you build off my ecodamage patch, the AI's borehole use should probably depend on the ecodamage associated with boreholes; you don't want it to over-borehole and end up with worm rape, of course.

Offline BFG

Re: test SMAC AI patch, version l
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2013, 06:03:59 PM »
Welcome to AC2, BFG!  How did you find us?
Thanks!  To answer your question, I've frequented civgaming.net since first learning of scient's patch.  Another player recently posted about this forum in a topic I started there.

(The topic, in case you're interested: I contacted GOG to ask if they'd be interested in making unofficial content available as part of their SMAC/SMAX download.  Astonishingly, they are.)


EDIT: Speaking of which, could someone help me understand the difference(s) between scient's, kyrub's, and yitzi's patches?  Are any based on another?  Which patch would most players consider the "best" according to these qualities:
1. Fixes bugs in vanilla SMAC/SMAX
2. Fixes oversights in vanilla SMAC/SMAX
3. Improves AI behavior
4. Improves game balance
5. Adds new features (i.e. new units in alpha/x.txt, new technologies, etc.)
(If this has been posted elsewhere, then I apologize.  I have a lot of reading to catch up on.)
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 06:43:37 PM by BFG »

Offline kyrub

Re: test SMAC AI patch, version l
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2013, 11:42:44 PM »
Oh, I was not aware of this "reaction thread".
I register the interest for SMAX version, thanks for saying it. This is a bit harder to do, since I did disassemble thouroughly only SMAC. So you'll have to wait, a bit, until I find some time.


In the meantime, kyrub, a question: what criteria do you use to decide what AI fixes/improvements to make?  I have three pet peeves in the game, based on my playstyle:
1. AI produces almost no boreholes
2. Gravship Formers cannot be properly automated over both land and sea
3. AI doesn't know how to use aerial transports or colonies - when doing so would greatly improve its strength

1. I have actually targetted boreholes' quantity in my first SMAC patch already. It's hard to change TBH, but I have got some partial success. See these snapshots with 3 boreholes on Morganite territory: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/smac-444.56203/#post-1542962. I'm pretty sure we can get better here.
2. What do you mean, exactly? That they don't quit land/sea?
3. That sounds hard to do. I wasn't aware this was such a massive factor, TBH. Do they produce air transports? Did you try to "give" them such units with alpha.txt?

Offline BFG

Re: test SMAC AI patch, version l
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2013, 02:06:42 AM »
1. That's great!  I'll look at this patch as soon as I have a chance.

2. If a Gravship Formers is set to "Autoimprove Base" or "Fully Automate", it will improve land squares but not sea squares.  However, it can modify sea squares when instructed manually.  I would like automated Gravship Formers to modify both square types automatically.
Additionally, the AI does not know how to use Gravship Formers - I think they are always told to Hold.

3. Others may disagree, but I think this would improve the AI drastically.  I use aerial Colony Pods to expand territory quickly or to colonize archipelagoes; aerial Transports can be used when Orbital Insertion is unavailable or when you need a nearby Copter/Gravship Medical Bay during an offensive.
I have created custom Scenarios where AI factions had Needlejet, Copter and/or Gravship Colony Pods, and set up the Scenario so it was favorable for the AI to use these.  (I would create a very good building location just within range of the aerial pod, either on the same continent or on a nearby island.)  Sadly, the AI always instructed these units to "Hold" forever.  I had similar results with aerial Transport units, but I did not experiment with them as much.

4. I also have not experimented with Sea and Gravship Supplies, but I believe the AI also does not know how to use them.

The units I give the AI include:
Code: [Select]
Aero Colony,            Needlejet,Colony Pod,   Scout,      8, 0, 0, DocAir,  -1, 00000100000000000000000000010
Chopper Colony,         Copter,   Colony Pod,   Scout,      8, 0, 0, MindMac, -1, 00000100000000000000000000010
Grav Colony,            Gravship, Colony Pod,   Scout,      8, 0, 0, Gravity, -1, 00000100000000000000000000010
Speeder Formers,        Speeder,  Formers,      Scout,      9, 0, 0, CentEmp, -1, 00000000000000000000000000000
Tank Formers,           Hovertank,Formers,      Scout,      9, 0, 0, NanoMin, -1, 00000000000000000000000000001
Ocean Formers,          Cruiser,  Formers,      Scout,      9, 0, 0, DocInit, -1, 00000000000000000000000000010
Gravship Formers,       Gravship, Formers,      Scout,      9, 0, 0, Gravity, -1, 00000000000010000000000000001
Sea Supply,             Foil,     Supply,       Scout,     10, 0, 0, DocFlex, -1, 00000000000000000000000000000
Ocean Supply,           Cruiser,  Supply,       Scout,     10, 0, 0, DocInit, -1, 00000000000000000000000000010
Gravship Supply,        Gravship, Supply,       Scout,     10, 0, 0, Gravity, -1, 00000000000000000000000000010

Offline Green1

Re: test SMAC AI patch, version l
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2013, 02:27:11 AM »
GOG supports our craziness?


This is fixing to get interesting. Makes sense though. AC is on several big name reviewers lists (like Total Biscuit) of the best offerings on GOG of all time. The activity over there adds fuel to the fire.

Kyrub, I am going to hold out on yours and Yitzi's tinkerings till the SMAX version is out :)

Offline Yitzi

Re: test SMAC AI patch, version l
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2013, 02:44:35 AM »
Kyrub, I am going to hold out on yours and Yitzi's tinkerings till the SMAX version is out :)

My tinkerings are all SMAX.

 

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