Author Topic: SMACX Thinker Mod  (Read 13872 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DrazharLn

Re: SMACX Thinker Mod
« Reply #105 on: November 11, 2018, 04:42:26 PM »
I think SMAC is the better game, so I'd vote for it :)

As for movlist this seems pretty trivial:

if (expansion && exists(movlistx.txt))
    use movlistx.txt
else
    use movlist.txt

Offline PvtHudson

Re: SMACX Thinker Mod
« Reply #106 on: November 12, 2018, 01:07:19 PM »
- Should the AI build armored crawlers in mass? After fusion reactors armor becomes so cheap I'm tempted to have them build crawlers with armor installed.
Sure, why not. Armored probe teams already added me worries.
- Is the colony pod production rate good enough now or should it be changed? Maybe the difficulty level should affect the desired AI expansion rate?
It's good that AI always has several CPs idly rolling back and forth through his lands (and mine if allied), thus they near instantly claim any released land. I'd say, rate is at least enough, perhaps even slightly excessive.

Can the "Empty facilities NN" from #FACILITIES be added to AI's build queues with low priority if their prerequisite has been changed from Disable to something?

Offline Induktio

Re: SMACX Thinker Mod
« Reply #107 on: November 12, 2018, 04:42:00 PM »
> It's good that AI always has several CPs idly rolling back and forth through his lands (and mine if allied), thus they near instantly claim any released land.

Players can probably see the difference pretty quickly there, the new colony pod algorithm actually iterates every reachable tile nearby and sends the pods to the best square that fits the desired city spacing.

> Can the "Empty facilities NN" from #FACILITIES be added to AI's build queues with low priority if their prerequisite has been changed from Disable to something?

Building effects are hardcoded, so I'm guessing these are the buildings that would provide some free energy only if alphax is modded. Build queue is somewhat hardcoded in the mod too. What I think could be done here, the queue needs to look at each of the energy bonus buildings abstractly and calculate expected return versus minerals and maintenance cost. Then select the building with the highest score. It can be done fairly easily but one needs to figure out the energy bonus calculation and balance this with other priorities.

Offline Induktio

Re: SMACX Thinker Mod
« Reply #108 on: November 15, 2018, 12:00:47 PM »
I feel like soon it would be the time to wrap up an another release of the mod. It's been a while since v0.7 already. Still it would be nice to have a couple of more features related to either social engineering or diplomacy. I've been looking at those areas and the reversing database does not cover them very well, so any progress is not that quick. In the case of adjusting SE choices, I'm not sure if it's doable to attempt to patch it or if it will require a larger rewrite. Some of the default AI choices are quite horrible so it may actually be the biggest obstacle to AI performance right now which is pretty annoying.

Offline PvtHudson

Re: SMACX Thinker Mod
« Reply #109 on: November 15, 2018, 01:59:27 PM »
Still it would be nice to have a couple of more features related to either social engineering or diplomacy. I've been looking at those areas and the reversing database does not cover them very well, so any progress is not that quick.
Maybe, start with a couple of small bugfixes to get grasp of the matter? Like, fix annoying multiple late game hate-messages in a row, or exploit of provoking AI into vendetta with troops removal demand?

Offline Induktio

Re: SMACX Thinker Mod
« Reply #110 on: November 18, 2018, 05:17:03 PM »
During the last week or so, I've been planning a feature Thinker has not modified before: combat unit movement! :)

Arguably this is the most complex part of AI programming, at least in the original game, the single biggest function dealt only with unit movement. There's certainly many different variables to consider, starting with combat odds and zones of control that interfere with path finding. In the first phase, this feature will probably be limited to evaluating counter attacks up to a couple of tiles away from the unit.

I think generally, the AI is really passive in attacking the native life, so having this feature will be important for the AIs to handle abundant native life. The units should also start to heal at monoliths because currently the AI does not seem to understand that, they only try to acquire the morale upgrades and then forget them. Also I'm not sure if the normal AI ever attacks with a hasty penalty, but in this case, it is possible to implement this behaviour now.

Offline PvtHudson

Re: SMACX Thinker Mod
« Reply #111 on: November 19, 2018, 04:56:39 AM »
I think generally, the AI is really passive in attacking the native life, so having this feature will be important for the AIs to handle abundant native life.
So true! Single spore launcher can stiffle an entire AI faction in the start.
Also I'm not sure if the normal AI ever attacks with a hasty penalty.
I've seen that.

Thanks to your efforts, SMAX has received biggest AI upgrade in 20 years and is already much harder and involving game than before. I don't dare to imagine what can be achieved in the tactical combat field!

Offline MercantileInterest

Re: SMACX Thinker Mod
« Reply #112 on: November 19, 2018, 10:08:49 PM »
Good to have a code modder among us once again.

Before his disappearance, Yitzi was talking about ways to scale back infiltration. Rather liked the thought of being able to remove infiltration by sending a probe team into an enemy base, perhaps with a low chance of success. Other ideas include a Planetary Council measure to vote on removing all infiltration or using one of the extra secret projects slots for the same effect. No idea how practical these measures might be, except that Yitzi said the first one was doable. Concern with infiltration mainly applies to multiplayer but that's my preference anyway.

Be back with more observations on Yitzi features later. Glad to have you here!

Offline tnevolin

Re: SMACX Thinker Mod
« Reply #113 on: November 19, 2018, 11:51:22 PM »
Before his disappearance, Yitzi was talking about ways to scale back infiltration. Rather liked the thought of being able to remove infiltration by sending a probe team into an enemy base, perhaps with a low chance of success. Other ideas include a Planetary Council measure to vote on removing all infiltration or using one of the extra secret projects slots for the same effect. No idea how practical these measures might be, except that Yitzi said the first one was doable. Concern with infiltration mainly applies to multiplayer but that's my preference anyway.

Be back with more observations on Yitzi features later. Glad to have you here!

I think it is too small scale change. There are much bigger clearly visible problems. Besides, AI doesn't need an infiltration to see all your units.
Tim

Offline PvtHudson

Re: SMACX Thinker Mod
« Reply #114 on: November 20, 2018, 04:51:38 AM »
If the works ever came to changing the rules of the game, there are plenty of ideas waiting (albeit of various utility and difficulty), at least http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=19520.0 and http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=17418.0.

Offline Induktio

Re: SMACX Thinker Mod
« Reply #115 on: November 21, 2018, 01:02:50 AM »
Okay, so develop version 20181120 is now available from downloads. Most interesting changes since last update:

- SP movies should now work by default in GOG installation
- AI starts building armored crawlers after fusion reactors

First phases of land combat unit logic implemented:
- AI considers any possible counter attacks on enemy units up to ~3 tiles away
- Attempts only attacks on tiles it can reach in one turn, sometimes with a hasty penalty
- Even base tile defenders can counter attack now, given favourable odds
- AI heals units at monoliths now

Triads other than land are not affected yet. It's hard to say how accurate the combat odds or tactical calculation formulas are yet, so they will probably receive some revisions later. Post here your observations if the AI behaviour changes noticeably.

> Concern with infiltration mainly applies to multiplayer but that's my preference anyway.

Note that IP multiplayer is not supported in this mod due to the large amount of extra code required to synchronize the game state across networks. I'm not sure if I would even attempt implementing that.

Offline tnevolin

Re: SMACX Thinker Mod
« Reply #116 on: November 22, 2018, 12:51:35 AM »
I saw it first few times when I was talking to Lal. Later on it displays 25 as it should.
Tim

Offline tnevolin

Re: SMACX Thinker Mod
« Reply #117 on: November 22, 2018, 12:53:22 AM »
Chart is not scaled properly.
Another thing is that regardless of whether I right-click left or right panel and select what to display it displays my choise on left panel only.
Tim

Offline PvtHudson

Re: SMACX Thinker Mod
« Reply #118 on: November 23, 2018, 09:04:28 AM »
Does AI build probe ships? Vanilla AI built Probe Foils if predefined and put them to good use (however, it didn't use them against coastal bases). In the recent game on standard random map with the latest ThinkerMod dev build, there were no probe ships in unit roster screens of all factions. Was it due to Librarian difficulty? By the way, my impression is the new Librarian corresponds to the old Transcend most closely.
Another question about predefined units. On what condition AI builds disabled *Sea Formers and Sea Escape Pods? Looks like those two rows 5 and 22 are hardcoded, possibly wired to MY. Sven in particular goes mad on *Sea Formers.
About unit movement amends regarding unarmored probe teams and, in a lesser degree, attackers in general. Is it feasible to teach them to end turn in one tile with friendly defender, or as far from target as possible to cross in one turn (especially ships), or outside of enemy vision, or at least not adjacent to enemy if possible? Recently my garrison unit broke record, eliminating a stack of no less than 25 Free Drones probe teams.

Offline tnevolin

Re: SMACX Thinker Mod
« Reply #119 on: November 23, 2018, 02:33:43 PM »
My apologies. Looks like these errors were there result of txt misconfiguration. I've verified it and updated and don't see it happening any more.
Tim

 

* User

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?


Login with username, password and session length

Select language:

* Community poll

SMAC v.4 SMAX v.2 (or previous versions)
-=-
17 (6%)
XP Compatibility patch
-=-
8 (3%)
Gog version for Windows
-=-
69 (28%)
Scient (unofficial) patch
-=-
24 (9%)
Kyrub's latest patch
-=-
14 (5%)
Yitzi's latest patch
-=-
85 (34%)
AC for Mac
-=-
2 (0%)
AC for Linux
-=-
5 (2%)
Gog version for Mac
-=-
10 (4%)
No patch
-=-
12 (4%)
Total Members Voted: 246
AC2 Wiki Logo

* Random quote

The happy life is thought to be one of excellence.. now an excellent life requires exertion, and does not consist of amusement. If Eudaimonia, or happiness, is activity in accordance with excellence, it is reasonable that it should in accordance with the highest excellence, and this will be that of the best thing in us.
~Aristotle 'Nichomachean Ethics', Datalinks

* Select your theme

*