Author Topic: Fusion Power Is NOW!  (Read 5283 times)

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Offline Green1

Re: Fusion Power Is NOW!
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2018, 05:29:32 PM »
As for framing, there's one very little known fact that to make a frame attempt successful, you can't be at Vendetta with the victim of your probing mission.

Joy.

Things like this make me think that most of a game's rules should have source code available.  I read the "decompliation coordination" thread last night.  All that heroism from at least 4 people, did not result in sustainable effort over the long haul.

I wonder if the Civ IV ecology is any improvement.

If they insisted on having this rule, what they should have done is make it impossible to attempt a frame job, that cannot possibly succeed.  As well as saying, "you can't frame because you have a vendetta".  Not good game design.  Oh well, not everything in such a large game will be optimal.  Nor maintained over the product's life cycle.  Hence the need for source code to be available.


Maniac did a Civ 4 total conversion for Alpha Centauri called Planetfall. It worked okay and I like some of the directions it took. Problem was they did a lot of changes to the tech tree and because of Civ 4's trade route calculations large and huge maps slowed to a crawl.

Offline Mart

Re: Fusion Power Is NOW!
« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2018, 05:56:00 PM »
I recently play only Caveman2Cosmos civ4 mod, from time to time. It is in the making for many years now, but for several years it is quite good in early game. And since maybe 2012, I only was able to reach Classical era only, starting from: Prehistoric->Ancient->Classical, I think it is like that. So the game complexity is tremendous there, but it can give a civer really enjoyable game.

Civ4 is like that, I remember reading about optimization of trade in that mod, but I am not sure what is the current state over there. They probably got something better, since standard maps play ok in Classical era.

Another thing, who would mod Planetfall further? After many years mostly people need to change their project.

Offline Kirov

Re: Fusion Power Is NOW!
« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2018, 06:22:33 PM »
And this kind of thing makes me wonder why I should be singled out for 'rudeness'.  Although, it was in a different thread on a different subject.

I stop your obnoxious, disgusting rant against a much better player/modder and you dare to call the 'good-manners' clause? You're lower than I thought.

Quote
When you don't disclose what you did, how would anyone know?  I actually wondered if you had just cheated your way through the thing somehow.

Some time ago I'd tear you a new one for this suggestion, but this time I'll let you go lightly. Just don't sin anymore.

You see, one of the perks of good players is that they recognize each other. Incidentally, that's why they never have to brag about their skills (hint hint). And I'm sorry, but I don't recognize you.

Conversely, losers call 'hacking' when they face a good game because they don't understand what just happened. As with everything, it takes certain awareness to truly appreciate good work.

Attached is my next submission for this scenario. I did it a week after my former one, but didn't want to publish it in order not to scare off the competition. When I said I can beat my score by ten turns, I knew that because I'd already done that. Fortunately, I saved almost every turn. All 93 of them.

And if you are still up to a challenge on your terms, go ahead and let me know. You can pick any faction, map size and shape, victory condition, etc., literally anything you want. Find your comfort zone.

I'm ready when you are.

Offline Kirov

Re: Fusion Power Is NOW!
« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2018, 06:26:22 PM »
I recently play only Caveman2Cosmos civ4 mod, from time to time. It is in the making for many years now, but for several years it is quite good in early game. And since maybe 2012, I only was able to reach Classical era only, starting from: Prehistoric->Ancient->Classical, I think it is like that. So the game complexity is tremendous there, but it can give a civer really enjoyable game.

Civ4 is like that, I remember reading about optimization of trade in that mod, but I am not sure what is the current state over there. They probably got something better, since standard maps play ok in Classical era.

Another thing, who would mod Planetfall further? After many years mostly people need to change their project.

I'm so sorry dude, and I promise that the above is my last post when I add fuel (I just had to respond to the cheating accusation part). I tried to ignore this droning for so long, but it just wouldn't stop. I admire your patience, you're Buddha. To bury this flame in the topic, I'll try to post here some useful guidelines for other contestants.

Offline bvanevery

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Re: Fusion Power Is NOW!
« Reply #49 on: May 19, 2018, 07:58:39 PM »
Another thing, who would mod Planetfall further? After many years mostly people need to change their project.

Yes, that's a strategic reality, even for one's career.  I could work on a specific game forever... if it's my game, where I own the franchise, and I make money from continuing to develop it over the long haul.  Otherwise, both boredom and lack of financial sustainability have to set in.  People need money for beer, bills, dates, houses, medical expenses (in some countries like the USA), wives / husbands, children to put through school, retirement... here I am living out of a car, I have none of those things.  I don't even particularly want to do it anymore, I'm just ok with it for now and I have to, if I want to keep having the freedom to pursue my real goals.  Survival jobs, that you never get any economic escape velocity from, been there done that.  Won't do it again.  Did a lot of open source contributions back then too, that nobody cares about now, and people didn't care about for all that long even back then.  Despite my professionalism, really making sure my work was polished when delivered to users.

I think important to any "grand vision" project, if one intends to sustain it for decades of content development, is that it must have sufficient scope to be worth that.  Like what would you imagine a SMAC to be, if it had gotten 20 years of active development to the present day?

Offline bvanevery

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Re: Fusion Power Is NOW!
« Reply #50 on: May 19, 2018, 08:18:04 PM »
I'm ready when you are.

Don't wait yourself up.

My issue with Mart is only how he has designed something.  What I view as the egregious flaws, are entirely fixable.  At a first go, simply tell the player what they're in for, when making major rules changes, so that hours of their time are not wasted.  I've play balanced a pretty major Battle for Wesnoth campaign, blew 4 full time man months play balancing that.  I've played a lot of Wesnoth 3rd party content.  I've seen a lot of things that suck, and things that don't, so I think I know something and have some credentials about designing content for users.  I hope Mart considers things in the future in terms of setting expectationsDocumenting is sort of the minimum, so that the player isn't just getting a pile of random-seeming "Tomato Surprises".

Designing things so that reasonably capable people can do well on the 1st try, is the next important step.  Well, Mart will do whatever he chooses in the future, in that regard.  I have my own standards on such things.  I note that the original contest rules expected people to submit only their 1st try.  Fine with me, if a scenario is actually designed for that in the 1st place, conscientiously so.  This one wasn't.

I don't have any issue with Mart personally.  I've given my design feedback such as it is, which is something Mart will either consider and accept or reject.  I've definitely fulfilled any obligation to give his modded rules a "fair shake" at this point.  Designers do need feedback from playtesters.

You, on the other hand, have decided to make things personal.  Ergo, I do not seek your company, Kirov.  I can already tell from numerous internet experiences with different personality types, that we are never going to see things eye to eye, which will make us unlikely to ever get along.  We just basically don't value the same things, at all.  So I will just minimize interaction with you, from here on out.

Offline bvanevery

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Re: Fusion Power Is NOW!
« Reply #51 on: May 21, 2018, 06:01:28 PM »
I made it to MY 2335 again before quitting.  I think this scenario was designed with Abundant fungus, and that really slows things down.  Too much for my taste.  I only really wish to terraform piles and piles of fungus if the scenario is about fungus somehow.

Otherwise, I did some westward expansion into the ocean, on the theory that oceans would ultimately be worth more energy in the long run.  But it was very slow going to establish sea bases and get them terraformed.  With all the land terraforming I was doing instead, not to mention all the sea fungus, it was really pretty modest what I'd accomplished before I quit.  Too much to get rid of.

This concludes my efforts at this scenario.  It has made me think about how I'd design a scenario instead.  I'd certainly make something a lot shorter, with some kind of focal point and designed to be won in a few hours.  To me this not a scenario so much as a field test of "ultra stagnation" game rules.

Offline Brecon

Re: Fusion Power Is NOW!
« Reply #52 on: June 11, 2018, 05:34:02 AM »
I also played through the scenario (about 1.75 times).  The partial attempt was playing without building colony pods and only defensively to see how it would compare with Kirov's time, in around 2370 it was clear that it would not be close and the Spartans and Pirates were becoming really annoying with missile/ air attacks against my bases and the interceptors to defend caused some drone issues in their home bases.

The second attempt continued from a save I had from the first try about 20-30 turns in.  Since early research was so slow I went planned/wealth for most of the game and, in order to get their tech and avoid losing the Theory of Everything to them, declared vendetta on the Morgans, and took the base with the Hunter-Seeker Algorithm in about the 2330s.  Until 2380 I mostly developed bases, terraformed, and fought against the Morgans.  In the later game once I had the 3rd/4th level engines I pushed further against the Gaians taking most of their bases as well.  The Pirates continued to be annoying with conventional missiles and a few times throughout the game I had to terraform one of their bases out of the water to take before it built a planet buster.  I focused on labs in the capital, only developing labs in most bases after orbital mining and energy satellites were up (probably after 2400).

So the end result was 2436, although for the last 5-10 turns units were ordered to hold and bases stockpiled energy since further management would not have changed the outcome much.

With hindsight I think it was a mistake to focus on the military between 2330-2380 and also a mistake to delay lab improvement in most of the bases for so long.

Thank you to Mart for setting up the game!

Offline Mart

Re: Fusion Power Is NOW!
« Reply #53 on: June 12, 2018, 06:29:39 PM »
Standings updated.


The military focus was interesting choice, in 2436 only one SP is outside of DA faction: CDF in Drones base.
So even with tech rate down to 20%, it is possible to reach 1 tech/turn at the end of the tech tree. Increased lab points for Transcendi help a bit, but not that much.

Offline Mart

Re: Fusion Power Is NOW!
« Reply #54 on: November 15, 2018, 02:01:17 AM »
No more submissions.
The scenario was, however, tried more times, judging from number of downloads. I wonder how many times completed.


The summary is in order...

Offline Mart

Re: Fusion Power Is NOW!
« Reply #55 on: November 16, 2018, 09:05:50 PM »

STANDINGS


- - - = = = * * * = = = - - -


PlaceMedalPlayerMY
1 :1st: KirovMY 2393
2 :2nd: BreconMY 2436


Congratulations to the medalists!

- - - = = = * * * = = = - - -

So this GOTM can be considered concluded.
I have in preparation a prequel for it, not finished yet though. But I think about just a free-play/relaxing scenario meanwhile.

Offline Kirov

Re: Fusion Power Is NOW!
« Reply #56 on: November 18, 2018, 05:02:46 PM »
And thanks to you, Mart, for this captivating scenario!   ;b; :danc:

 

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