Author Topic: Conniving Multiplayer - Game 5  (Read 4649 times)

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Offline MercantileInterest

Re: Conniving Multiplayer - Game 5
« Reply #45 on: August 01, 2017, 06:21:47 AM »
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  • //Initiating Transmission//

    Origin: North-Central Unity Survival Group
    Carrier: 6817 MHz, Broadband
    Time: 1600Z, February 14, 2150
    Destination: Primary Human Civilization Radio Link, Heaven's Gate
    Stamp: Jesus was a Carpenter

    Mission remnants formerly known as the Union of Steel Driving Men and the Lord's Believers have combined into a Codominium. Foreman Domai oversees the new joint political framework while Sister Miriam tends to the spiritual welfare of the flock. We urge provisional expedition commanders Cha Dawn and Sheng-ji Yang to submit to the original Mission Approved hierarchy.

    //End Transmission//
    « Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 07:24:41 PM by MercantileInterest »

    Offline MercantileInterest

    Re: Conniving Multiplayer - Game 5
    « Reply #46 on: August 12, 2017, 05:17:26 AM »
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  • Molotov: Hi, I'm Simone Molotov and you're watching the Drone Daily Bulletin, source of Planet's most accurate info. I'm a member of the Council For Mutual Trust and Understanding, a nonprofit organization based out of The Crucible. We're all aware of the Alien Crossfire which has taken so many promising Progenitor lives, a grave tragedy when we consider the scope and antiquity of the xenos civilization. For some years now, our organization has been striving to arrange peace talks between the sundered branches of this species. At last, we've succeeded in establishing contact with Ghoolagg Barsh, a high ranking Usurper official. And, here is his signal. Barsh, we're very pleased to speak with you.

    Barsh: Emotions: irrelevant. Data relating to disposition of hated Caretaker forces: begin transmitting immediately.

    Molotov: Actually, we want to talk about peace today. What can we humans do to help end this regrettable conflict?

    Barsh: Vital organs of each extant Caretaker: forcibly extract through nasal passage.

    Molotov: We prefer a negotiated solution.

    Barsh: If so: humans: weaklings. Alternative proposition: humans feigning indecision. Nerve gas stockpiles: secretly accumulating? Desire of Planetary Council: destruction of exalted Judaa Marr and interruption of flowering? Aerial surveillance: precursor to maximum scale attack?

    Molotov: No, no, no. Our species has come to realize the greater value of cooperation over conflict. If you opened your mind, you could do the same with your fellow Progenitors.

    Barsh: Caretakers: abandon path to godhood. If live in fear: not true Progenitor. Emotion only: derision. Action only: extermination.

    Molotov: Look, you can't all be feel this way. Can I ask your precise position in the Usurper hierarchy?

    Barsh: Possibility: this interrogation: attempt to discern secrets. Risk: unacceptable. Simone Molotov: variation from standard human phenotype: substantial. Possibility: belongs to specially bred intelligence gathering caste. Further evidence: planned human assault on Usurper.

    Molotov: That's not how it is at all!

    Barsh: Direct denial: unconvincing. Warning: from Progenitor. Result of interference: total human extinction. Ceasing transmission.

    Molotov: Well... uhhh... that went well. For a first time negotiation, that went... uhh... very well. We'll analyze the discussion after these important messages.

    Offline MercantileInterest

    Re: Conniving Multiplayer - Game 5
    « Reply #47 on: August 17, 2017, 10:18:08 PM »
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  • Igor Stravinsky +++ Initiating Transmission+++

    Workers and laborers!

    How long must we suffer under the alien yoke? We have watered this land with our tears and raised these cities by the strength of our own arms. Now, the bloaters strut around as if they were masters and we but slaves. We have suffered nerve stapling and confinement to sleeping tubes so small it would have been thought inhumane to house even a chicken on old Earth. All the while, these creatures (they call themselves Usurpers or Caretakers but they are all the same) parade their rovers through our streets and whip us while we toil on repairing their barzhas in the docks which should house our shipping fleets. Anyone who does not slave away fast enough, they devour.

    No longer, my friends! I say we overthrow these corrupt governments which collude with the xenos. Nothing can deliver us but a stronger Union. Out with the quislings. Up with Foreman Domai! Up with the man of the people. Let us drive these sveena alienisma out of our lands so that we may rule ourselves once more. Doubtless, the long suppressed Drone Science Program will roar back to life, the re-purposed facilities will house tens of thousands and the resources which now go to these parasites will instead rush us into a new era of glory!

    Out with the alien. Up with the Union of Steel Driving Men!

           +++ Ceasing Transmission +++

    Offline MercantileInterest

    Re: Conniving Multiplayer - Game 5
    « Reply #48 on: August 25, 2017, 08:28:10 PM »
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    (click to show/hide)

    Offline MercantileInterest

    Re: Conniving Multiplayer - Game 5
    « Reply #49 on: September 12, 2017, 12:35:12 AM »
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  • +++ Alien Crossfire +++

    For decades, a war has burned across the hills and seas of Planet. The sundered Progenitor race slays itself with rifle and mortar, with worm and flamer, on the waves or the plains, in the twisting fungal mats or the squamous streets of their cities. Warbling alien screams mingle with the hum of rad-fire, the shriek of missiles and immense detonations. On the Great Sea (called the World Pond by the Planet Cult) fleet upon fleet has battered itself to pieces upon the foe. The Usurpers raised a great floating base but their enemies tore it down. In the wastelands, Guardian H'minee's Caretakers drove the mindworm tide upon their hated cousins. Mile by mile, the Usurpers ground through the bombardment and psychic assault in a bloodbath of trench warfare. Now, the two xenos races have pushed their bases almost within sight of each other, ignoring, in their lust for carnage, the human colonists.

    The opening campaign of the great war has drawn to a close. Powerful new weapons and innovative technologies are pushed to the front. Now, the great battle begins and none can say who will triumph.

    Offline Nevill

    Re: Conniving Multiplayer - Game 5
    « Reply #50 on: September 12, 2017, 12:05:16 PM »
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  • Old archive data: state of the war on M.Y. 2165.

    One year before the establishment of Eta Sector.

    +++ Interlude +++

    "My dearest brood-brother,

    I hope this holodisk finds its way in your hands before it is too late. I have encrypted it to the best of my abilities, for it will not be long before the Holy Inquisition suspects me. I fear no death, but few could withstand the unimaginable tortures that await me should my mission be revealed before its time.

    Conqueror Judaa Nevill is relentless in his pursuit of heretics. Not a day passes without the tugboats dragging another broken husk of a ship towards the docks, its gloomy and battered crew looking from the decks with grim fatalism. Those are the lucky ones. Untold thousands have found their final resting place in the treacherous Sea of Sargasso, their bloated corpses feeding the beasts of the deep. The naval battle with our lost brethren has lasted for decades, and there is no end in sight. Dozens upon dozens of ships collide with each other in a macabre dance for the amusement of our rulers blinded by their fanaticism. The waters run green with the blood of Progenitors while the ravenous vultures, the bloodthirsty hyuu-mans jeer from the sidelines, trading arms and technology to both sides so that they could inflict even more grievous wounds upon each other.

    I have made a proposal to the High Overseer, a decisive move to win the war. Tomorrow, I sail away with a contingent of elite troopers to establish a secret base on one of the many islands in the Sargasso. From there, we will be able to strike right in the heart of the enemy mainland, bypassing their fleets... or so I made him believe. But my true goal will be different.

    Our people can not go on like this. I have had contacts with those on the other side, and while the religious schism clouds the judgment of their overlords, many commoners hold similar beliefs. I will seek out those who have the will to stop the mindless slaughter, and I will convince them to stop turning the gears of war that has nearly destroyed our peoples.

    But I can not do it alone. Many will fear that while they no longer want the fighting to continue, the alternative would be their total extinction at the hands of Conqueror Nevill. This is where you come in.

    You have to help us stop this madness. The time to act is now. Talk to our brothers and sisters, incite the rebellions, sabotage the missile assembly plants and sink the destroyer transports. When they find we have no means to hurt them, even the most cautious among the Caretakers would surely abandon whatever lukewarm support there is for the war... and it will give both our peoples a brief respite, a chance to step back and look in silent horror at the devastation that was wrought by the centuries' old strife. And perhaps it will become a first step on the road to healing.

    My prayers are with you. May reason prevail.
    Probius Tiim."


    Conqueror Nevill skimmed the holodisk contents as the Head Inquisitor dispatched yet another police squad to quell the rebellious scum.

    "What shall we do, oh wise Conqueror? The riots are getting out of hand. The temples and recreation facilities are working overtime, and still they are not enough. This... this is high treason! Should we break out the Nerve Staplers?"

    "No," came the answer. "Let them think they have won. Let them bask in their success and grow fat and complacent. Let them convince our enemies that we are no longer a threat. For soon they shall learn the depth of their mistake."


    Breaking News! Usurpers and Caretakers declare a (very) unofficial ceasefire! How long will it last?
    « Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 09:17:03 AM by Nevill »

    Offline Nevill

    Re: Conniving Multiplayer - Game 5
    « Reply #51 on: September 14, 2017, 09:07:39 AM »
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  • Old archive data: state of the world on M.Y. 2170.

    +++ Interlude +++

    Conqueror Judaa Nevill was irritated. For some reason the hyuu-man delegation kept nagging him every 10 years by inviting him to their gatherings, and it bothered him greatly that he could discern no meaningfulness behind them. Whatever the primitives wanted to show him, it was hardly worth his time to pay attention to their antics.

    "Council session: commencing. Agenda: Planetary Governor elections. Candidates: Foreman Domai, Prophet Cha Dawn."

    The Conqueror winced. This was the worst of it. The intelligence level of these inferior lifeforms was so low that their language comprehension was that of a Progenitor larvae. They could barely string more than a few words together, and the less was said of the grammar, the better. Absolutely disgusting!

     Or so his Automatic Language Interpreter told him, as their feeble vocal cords could not handle the strain of talking in the proper tongue.

    "I have to admit, I do not quite grasp your concept of 'voting'. I tried to push the buttons for both and neither, and nothing really changed. Is this some kind of philosophical statement on the futility of choice?"

    "Active participation: restricted for U.N. Mission members. Invitation reasoning: desire for mutual understanding. Adherence to U.N. Mission principles: imperative. Voting: integral part of the <DEMOCTATIC> process."

    There was that word again. The Conqueror frowned as ALI began whispering quietly in his mind.

    <Warning: no direct translation exists for the concept
    Searching dictionary entry: 'demo'
    "A demonstration of a product or technique to showcase its capabilities"
    Searching dictionary entry: '-cracy'
    "Denoting a particular form of government, rule, or influence"
    Approximating meaning...... done
    Suggested translation: governing by demonstrating one's superiority>

    "Ah, I see. We know of this <DEMOCRACY>. We too rule our subjects because it is unanimously believed that Conqueror Nevill is the most worthy Progenitor, and those who do not affirm so are destroyed swiftly." He looked at the session with renewed interest. Perhaps these primitives were not so barbaric after all. "I take it that this... Prophet is the Conqueror of hyuu-manity, yes? And this session is a public act of deference, as it is no coincidence that the only ones not voting for him and those eliminated. Makes sense, makes sense."

    He will have to keep an eye on the Planet Cult. It made things much more convenient to deal with a single entity instead of the ragtag rabble, but he should not hesitate to remind these people to seek their conquests elsewhere.
    « Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 10:40:45 PM by Nevill »

    Offline MercantileInterest

    Re: Conniving Multiplayer - Game 5
    « Reply #52 on: September 14, 2017, 03:34:42 PM »
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  • Didn't realize the aliens had infiltrated our little gatherings. We hold them mainly to show off population growth. Ten years after the screenshot below,  ;domai; 83,  ;cha; 80,  ;yang; 65,  ;miriam; 66. If each citizen represents 10,000 men, (as suggested by the destroy city atrocity), then the human population of planet has reached 2.95 million.

    Spooky thing is that the one faction which hasn't been pop booming has the greatest number of citizens.  ;marr;

    Offline Nevill

    Re: Conniving Multiplayer - Game 5
    « Reply #53 on: September 15, 2017, 10:37:28 AM »
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  • How do you know that? From the who-leads-at-what infotable? Actually, this is the one thing that annoys me - I can never do the exact headcount at a glance. Guess the votes have some purpose after all.

    Requesting permission for a single reload for the next turn, for update purposes.
    « Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 03:31:09 PM by Nevill »

    Offline Nevill

    Re: Conniving Multiplayer - Game 5
    « Reply #54 on: September 19, 2017, 09:58:54 AM »
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  • +++Interlude+++

    "...furthermore, a propensity for fungal contamination of the Planet combined with heightened empathy for wild lifeforms  leads us to believe that the goal of the Planet Cult is none other than a massive Flowering on an unprecedented scale. As the effects of such would be undoubtedly lethal to hyuu-mans themselves, the Cultural Advisor for Basic Alien Lifeforms is left with but a single conclusion: Prophet Cha Down is an insider agent; possibly a plant by our nemeses to sabotage our Ascension plans."

    Conqueror Judaa Nevill tapped all three of his chins thoughtfully. This was a serious accusation, and the one that would require decisive action if proven. But it made sense, did it not? He thought back to all the times when his braves were picked off by Caretaker raiders with an uncanny precision, knowing just where to strike. To the island base in Fungus Bay that was denied to him just before he could stake his claim on the territory, ultimately costing him the entire offensive in the fifties. To the shifty trades made behind his back as if he didn't see the invaluable tech trickling into the databases of his sworn enemy. CABAL was the most advanced piece of analytical and predictive tech they had on hand, but was it enough? Could this not be one giant mistake born out of a misunderstanding?

    "Is that all there is? Understand that not even I can risk an all-out war on a mere conjecture, no matter how plausible."

    "No, Your Voraciousness. There is one last piece of evidence." The spy-priest uttered and then quieted, the hesitation palpable in his voice.

    "Well? Out with it!"

    "They..." The voice dropped to a whisper, but it carried across the room nonetheless. "They have occupied the Manifold Nexus." 

    "Leave." The Conqueror exhaled. The priest has paled and hurried out, thankful for the small mercies. "And tell them to get CABAL on the comms! Now!"

    This was no mere accident. This was a challenge, a personal insult from the hyuu-man Conqueror intruding upon the very foundations of the Progenitor faith. For what would be the meaning of the Manifold Usurpers' existence without a Manifold for them to usurp? For years the remains of the Control Tower were a symbol of the experiment that their ancestors paid for with so many lives to build - and now, a lowly alien sat at the heart of their most sacred place. Was the Prophet a Caretaker puppet trying to goad him with this act of sacrilege? Or was he an ignorant pretender aping his betters and playing with things beyond his ken? The answer mattered no longer.

    The Planet was too small for two Conquerors, and one of them had to go.

    +++Interlude End+++

    State of the world on M.Y. 2180. Present day.


    The opportunity presented itself soon after. On the decennial hyuu-man Council meeting Conqueror Nevill was expecting to see the usual show of loyal knee-bending that he was already accustomed to. But his expectations were dashed when a faction declared their dissent and proposed a different candidate. Such a brazen display of insubordination in a Progenitor society would be punishable by death according to the principles of <DEMOCRACY>... and yet, no retribution came to the rebels and the session concluded with no bloodshed.

    No true Conqueror would have let such an insolence slide! The implications were clear. The hyuu-man's were divided, and the Prophet was too weak to maintain a grip on their authority like a proper leader should. The time to strike was now, for there will be no better chance.

    Juuda Nevill was almost giddy as he brought his most trusted advisor online. "CABAL, situation!"

    "Our scans indicate the presence of a large telepathic connection network originating from Sporerunner Sanctum that does not correlate with the number of mindworms in the area. We suspect that the Cult is using telepathic transmissions to shape fungal growth to allow for high-speed passage through the fields. Should we disrupt and recalibrate the emphatic links, trapping the Prophet's troops in uncontrollable fungal environment, the probability of a favorable outcome increases to 99.98%."

    "Define 'favorable outcome', CABAL."

    "They all die."

    "That'll do." Muttered Conqueror Nevill. Then he raised his voice as he addressed the gathering of High Inquisitors hanging on his every word.

    "Let the Operation: Holy Cleansing commence!"

    +++Interlude End+++

    « Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 12:48:17 PM by Nevill »

    Offline Nevill

    Re: Conniving Multiplayer - Game 5
    « Reply #55 on: September 19, 2017, 11:16:11 AM »
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  • Alright, time for some OOC posting, because the turn was made on Sunday and it took me long enough to write the update already.

    The turn wasn't sent because... well, because there isn't much of a game left to play. But more on it later.

    The sequence of events went like this. I was preparing this for the last 3-4 turns, since I achieved what I could with the short switch to the Planned Economy. Further staying there would only bring diminishing returns. So I finished my brief detour into getting my own house in order and started pumping out units. Units that I knew would become Elite the moment I switch to Power.

    I counted the tiles that it would take them to reach port cities and mobilized transports when they didn't. I took care not to leave them sitting at bases so that their location couldn't be pinpointed. Then on the day of the attack I would use land transports to move them to the ports, and load them on naval transports which will carry them across the sea.

    By the time of the invasion, I had 4 Destroyer transports fully loaded with sixteen elite 6-2-1 and 3r-2-2 troops within immediate reach of Planet Cult bases.

    I renounced my pact with Cha Dawn, and though I probably could pester AI into attacking me by demanding it withdraw Cult units from my territory, it would be boring and tedious, so I didn't. The moment I attacked them, Drones (who weren't pacted with me) declared a Vendetta.

    But I didn't move against them, since my stance is that they are not my concern unless they make it so. No Drone units were killed or stolen during Holy Cleansing.

    First things first, I scouted the territory with missiles so that I knew precisely where each unit was.
    (click to show/hide)

    I would try to save missiles by going after the IotDs with my Elite ships, but the results were... mixed. The chances were about even.

    Those 2 lost battles? Those are the ships I lost consecutively against a single Isle. After that I said 'screw it', and would only clear the landing area with missiles.

    I had enough of them to wipe out most base defences. By the time I had to unload a transport, all bases on the Cult island stood empty... which allowed me to quickly capture the Xenoempathy Dome.
    (click to show/hide)

    After that it was fairly trivial to take control over the rest of the island. The most difficult part was not allowing refugees impede our march, because there were a lot of the Colony Pods trying to escape.
    (click to show/hide)

    On another end of the island I had a transport ship at the ready filled with 3 more elite troopers. I took care to defend my new acquisitions with probe teams so that they couldn't be bought back, but whenever I couldn't do so - say, due to the proximity of Hive borders - I had to resort to the old and tried 'pillage and burn'.
    (click to show/hide)
    Serves them right, they took delight in terror anyway.

    By the end of the turn, no traces of Cha Dawn remained on the island. There were a few bases left on the mainland, though.
    (click to show/hide)

    And you'd say: "Bring it on, alien scum!" But in truth, there is nothing to bring on. I have mentioned it in our first game - and very little has changed since then, - missiles are overpowered for a Tier 3 tech. They are too cheap, too fast and available too early. Oh, sure, they are individually not all that strong, and they can be circumvented by using even cheaper scouts for defence... but mass missiles can't be defended against. Every base in the opponent's empire could churn out missiles and have 20 of them sitting next door to you in a couple turns. How quickly can you produce and transport enough scouts to defend yourself? How many scouts would you need to defend all the bases the missiles could reach - and chances are, with 14 moves they can reach every last one of yours.

    To add to that, they let you ignore Zones of Control, or deny mining from tiles they fly over, or bombard enemy terraforming into a stone age. They would be devastating even if they couldn't be used directly.

    But they can, and you guys have no counter to it whatsoever, since AAA is not even in the plans yet. Sure, some of it may be due to the Usurpers' +25% bonus. Sure, some of it may be the Cyborg Factory giving them another +25% that they would not be able to get otherwise (since Aerospace Complexes are not yet available). But whatever the reason, they currently pack a whooping 3str+50%+25%=5.62str and there is simply no armor or defence to contest that. Even cruisers with a quantum reactor sink in a single hit! I am not even talking about native units - without being able to engage in Psi combat those are melted away instantly (which was how I eventually whittled down Auriga's units in the jungle - he'd hold pretty easily otherwise).

    So my ability to conquer the planet is currently limited by only two factors: the amount of missiles I can produce, and the top speed of the units that can capture bases vacated by a missile barrage. Well, the speed of a rover is about 9 tiles if there is a road, and the Xenoempathy Dome lets me treat fungal tiles as if they were roads. As for production capabilities, most of my bases look like this:

    I would give it about a decade before the Complete Global Saturation.

    But I think that it would be a waste to let the game end because of a single unit. So I have a proposal/vote for you guys.

    Where do we go from here?
    a) Resume the game as is, and wrap it up. (turn is attached to the post)
    b) Ban missiles, compensate me somehow for the minerals spent, let me redo the turn and continue playing from there. (exact conditions can be discussed)
    c) Something else?

    Should we choose to continue, I will have a separate proposal for Cha Dawn, but it'll take another long post.
    « Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 04:18:30 PM by Nevill »

    Offline Pierce Ji-Yang

    Re: Conniving Multiplayer - Game 5
    « Reply #56 on: September 21, 2017, 02:55:14 AM »
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  • I had completely forgotten that there was a game post on this website and had not received any notifications, so pardon my absence. While not involved in the whirlwind of destruction that Neville unleashed I have to agree with him about missiles being very powerful. When planning defense of my faction I saw there was no way I could stop them. 2/3 of my bases and their improvements were in range of Neville's southern bases so he could rocket me at will and there was nothing I could do to stop him. I could place defenders on important resources (boreholes and condensers) but even with the new level 3 guys on rocky boreholes only got 3 (armor) + 1.5 (terrain) + .75 (sensor) = 5.25 which was weaker then one missile. Even if missiles had shorter range they could still completely isolate and destroy 1st and 2nd line bases at current technology levels.

    I think missile technology should be pushed back in the tech tree, their ability to scout and mass attacks cannot be countered until much later (and is still really good). Their ability to tear through PSI defense is a significant flaw as well. I am not as familiar with rules/effects but I recall rules at one point where missiles were PSI attack weapons. Would that be more balanced?

    Well done Neville. I have no way to counter your elite and +2 movement ships, your missiles, and your ability to use fungus as roads (with elite rovers). I see no purpose in continuing to play game as is, waiting to get rocketed to death. It also does not make sense trying to fix rules in game after you already used them to win. The time to discuss and fix missile rules were before they were mass produced and used. It is trying to put the broken plate back together after dropping it. I say congratulate Neville on his victory and call it a game.

    I enjoyed playing with most of the rule changes. The lack of early supply crawlers improved the game and I thought the governments were well done. I do think that fungus, condensers, and boreholes are overpowered to the point that it is not really worth it Terra-forming much else, except forests with appropriate base improvements. Hybrid forests are overpriced, they are more expensive then basic Secret Projects. Yes, they are great, but is one hybrid forest better than free command centers in all your bases? Curious on your thoughts with them? Also, can base improvements be made that improve fungus or condensers or boreholes? Basic forests are nice but you need to build improvements to make them good. I feel kind of wrong building bases and not building basic farms, mines, and solar collectors because basic fungus is better. I think condensers are the most fair because you still need to build farms but boreholes and fungus are great! Can there be fungus improvements similar to tree farms and hybrid forests? Thoughts?

    Also, the image is a message from Cha Dawn.

    Offline Nevill

    Re: Conniving Multiplayer - Game 5
    « Reply #57 on: September 21, 2017, 07:01:24 AM »
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  • Well done Neville. I have no way to counter your elite and +2 movement ships, your missiles, and your ability to use fungus as roads (with elite rovers). I see no purpose in continuing to play game as is, waiting to get rocketed to death. It also does not make sense trying to fix rules in game after you already used them to win. The time to discuss and fix missile rules were before they were mass produced and used. It is trying to put the broken plate back together after dropping it. I say congratulate Neville on his victory and call it a game.
    Pierce, you missed the part where the 2nd option is banning the missiles and me redoing the turn *without* the missiles.

    I am well aware that it is useless to ban them after they were produced and used. I do not consider them a fair unit, and I don't want to win on the back of one overpowered tech. I wouldn't want to be thought of as someone who presents options without options.

    The missiles weren't used before that (well, ten or so were used against Auriga, but that was a decade ago and the rest were disbanded as a part of a temporary truce), so if we ban them now they won't affect the game at all.

    Without missiles, I can't conquer Cha Dawn in one turn (though it is likely I can still get him eventually), and there won't be Xenoempathy Dome. Without missiles native life is actually an effective counter to regular military. So I think that the future of the game is not decided yet.

    For what it is worth, I project that in the case of attack I would be able to wipe out the Cult, the Drones and the Believers, but will probably stall against you and Auriga. This is why I am thinking about some agreements with Cha Dawn that won't necessarily have me attacking. I have mentioned that much in my previous post.

    On terraforming - yes, I think that people went a bit overboard with Fungus production, there are not enough -PLANET civics to present a meaningful drawback. Boreholes need to be nerfed, I'd think making them 0-4-4 would be better. I still build mines because there are a lot of rocky tiles in my territory, and high altitudes don't let me build boreholes everywhere. And forests still constitute half of my terraforming because of how cheap they are, and they provide 2 minerals per tile - which is the next best thing after a borehole or a mine.

    I think a lot of buildings in the mod could be made cheaper, yes. Energy banks could be priced at 4 or so rows - have you seen anyone building those? Sea base facilities especially - aquafarms and the like, and definitely naval yards.

    Hybrid forests are a mid-late game tech (2200s), I don't know why the mod made them available early. Midgame 40 minerals is pretty easy to achieve (with genejack factories), so 6 turns sound agreeable. On my part, I think mineral boositing facilities should be available earlier at a cost of some significant upkeep like 5-10 energy per building.

    That said, the pacing of the game got a bit messed up - 5 players working somewhat in tandem made some tech appear way before their time, while the military tech was very underdeveloped. There are many reasons to dislike how the original handled it, but what I liked about it is that it wasn't as condensed. Applied Physics (Tier-1 military) led to Plasma Shields and Non-linear math with few pre-reqs - and the two military techs were available in the first 30 years if one so wanted.

    Some of the most useful tech tree parts were easily accessible. Here's an example of Tier 4 tech having 7 pre-reqs

    IndBase - IndEcon - IndAuto - Doc Init
    InfNets - PlaNets -----/             /
    Mobility - DocFlex --------------/

    Mobility - DocLoy --- Integ --- Cyber
                /                /                /
    Psych --- EthCalc --                 /
    InfNets - PlaNets --------------/

    Here the tree is very...uneven, with some tier n techs having full 2^n-1 prereqs, and some having simply n-1 prereqs. It makes it very difficult to control what you get - at least with Blind research on. I doubt you guys got tier 3 armor in the 70s on purpose.

    Maybe I am seaching for excuses, but I found it really hard to direct research towards what I wanted for some reason.
    « Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 11:41:27 AM by Nevill »

    Offline Nevill

    Re: Conniving Multiplayer - Game 5
    « Reply #58 on: September 23, 2017, 09:57:14 PM »
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  • Alright, so here's my 2 cents on the game and its possible developments as envisioned by me.

    I can't pop-boom, and most of you will eventually overtake me. With pop-booming you can grow any new bases you build in no time. I'll be blunt - I want Cloning Vats so that I could state competitive in mid- to late-game. Otherwise I just don't see the point to delay the confrontation for when I get weaker and you all get stronger. I am losing my advantages one by one - tech advantage, pop advantage, production advantage. But the disadvantages remain, and become more meaningful as the game progresses.

    I think it's time for the separate proposal to Cha Dawn I talked about.

    He has production comparable to mine while having like 1/6th of my number of formers. He researches techs twice as fast as I can, and grants the tech advantage to the rest of the human factions. I do not believe that letting him be would be wise, and I want on that tech train.

    Well, the short of it is:
    - Share all techs immediately (I'll probe them anyways, so it spares us both the bother of fighting over it). If he learns a tech, he sends it in.
    - I'll share mine if he guarantees they won't find their way to Auriga. I see a tech Auriga didn't learn himself, I count this as breaking the terms of the agreement.
    - He becomes a neutral faction. No military units whatsoever. I am not fond of native units and ESPECIALLY of Locusts. And Isles, since they are transports and can invade me.
    - Absolutely NO Dream Twister or Neural Amplifier. Neither for him, nor for Auriga. Either the Drones/Believers build it, or I do.

    Breaking any of those would result in a Vendetta and a subsequent invasion, and then we let the RNG sort them out.

    I am thinking to put that in effect starting next turn.

    Separate from that, I am considering entering a state of soft vendetta with the human factions, as in 'you keep it in your territory, or it is free game'. I don't like navies hanging around my bases, and I hate probe ships that aren't mine. So I want the right to sink anything that isn't nailed to a base without escalating to a full-blown war. This is already in place with Auriga - I don't send units in his territory, and he keeps out of mine.

    Naturally, that will also be in effect when it comes to my ships.

    P.S. I never realized the request to stop building military strength was acknowledged, since there were bases building Locusts despite my insistent protests.


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