Author Topic: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod  (Read 27036 times)

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Offline bvanevery

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Re: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod
« Reply #1350 on: November 22, 2020, 07:18:28 AM »
I don't think colonists should get instant teleportation for those ideas.  Rather, depopulation should produce colonists, and perhaps not under your control.  Because let's face it, you starved them.

The game would change some if killing a colonist was an atrocity.

I don't think anything good can come of giving units extra movement points.  Too easily abused.

Offline MercantileInterest

Re: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod
« Reply #1351 on: November 22, 2020, 03:58:01 PM »
No. In this scenario, you use the PTS to forcibly relocate the population to other bases. Not starve them.

The doubling road movement within territory is a step on the way to magtubes more than anything else.

Infiltration expiring after a time is probably for the better but it weakens the Planetary Datalinks, already one of the weakest projects. In single player, you're more advanced than everyone else by the time you build it. In multiplayer, the other factions deliberately stop trading to keep tech from falling into your hands. Infiltration expiring only makes this weaker. Would be for the better if the Planetary Datalinks also worked for techs already held by 3+ infiltrated factions, rather than only those which are discovered later. If you're already behind, you catch. Regarding the infiltration problem, three possible solutions:

(1) At the start of each turn, the project gives a 1/10th chance of infiltrating one random faction. (The Planetary Datalinks has discovered a bug in the Spartan Datanet. We have placed an infiltrator.)

(2) If you possess the Planetary Datalinks, your infiltration does not expire.

(3) Could just set the price very low in the alphax and accept it as a trash SP that you'd really only want if you already have the Empath Guild.

By the way, does Empath Guild infiltration expire?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 09:01:51 PM by MercantileInterest »

Offline bvanevery

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Re: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod
« Reply #1352 on: November 22, 2020, 05:00:31 PM »
No. In this scenario, you use the PTS to forcibly relocate the population to other bases. Not starve them.

You made a new base where 3 citizens can't eat.  Sounds like starvation to me. 

I did not read your obliteration idea 2. as being dependent upon the PTS.  I thought it was an independent comment.  Making it depend on the PTS, sounds like pretty funky complicated rules.  If you have the multiplayer bias, perhaps you don't care, but the AI doesn't understand such a thing right now.  "If the opponent has the PTS, with its funky rules, then I...?"  Or if I have the PTS, then I...?

Quote
The doubling road movement within territory is a step on the way to magtubes more than anything else.

I'm opposed to magic hand wavy capabilities for home territory.  Although there might be some possibilities of legitimate modeling of real world phenomena, like the Viet Cong being supported by friendly villages, that should have some pretty specific modeling of the forces and material movements involved.  A blanket "Hey the Reich always fights better, it's the Fatherland" is completely silly.  Enemies in war get their asses handed to them all the time.  That's pretty much what makes it war.  Nobody would do war if there was some magic advantage "it's my side, I win" like it's a game of tag.

Quote
In single player, you're more advanced than everyone else by the time you build it.

Not in my mod.  It's a Tier 3 Secret Project, same as many others, and costing my standard 300 minerals for an early project.  WTP makes most SPs very painful to finish, and this has consequences.

Quote
By the way, does Empath Guild infiltration expire?

That would be irrational / a bug.  Mods have also priced the E.G. as vastly more expensive than in the stock game.  You get what you pay for.

Offline MercantileInterest

Re: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod
« Reply #1353 on: November 22, 2020, 08:59:30 PM »
I'm talking about alternatives to the default rules for the Planetary Transit System, not supplements. The current ones don't make sense because they create new population out of thin air but only when a base is constructed or when the project is completed. If you could actually grow new-citizens in tanks, you would do it all the time, as with the cloning vats. Therefore, new bases not start at size three and not starvation.

ACB has already tinkered with the default rules because he finds them unsatisfactory.

I don't know whether the implementation of my suggested rules would be complicated. We know the game already ranks bases, because it shows lists of best bases in the datalinks.

It's hardly a magic hand wave to suggest that the Planetary Transit System affect transit.

I'm not suggesting what the Empath Guild should do. I'm asking what it already does.

Offline bvanevery

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Re: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod
« Reply #1354 on: November 22, 2020, 10:24:51 PM »
Hmm, if it's just an anti-starvation SP, then my question is, why is that particularly helpful or important?  I don't consider starving a few colonists to be a big deal.  I also tend to manage most of my cities to keep that from happening in the 1st place.  So this would only provide me a benefit for 1 or 2 cities per game.  Not important to do that.

I don't consider the PTS as is to be a worthwhile SP either.  Smallpox is anathema to me, and that's probably the only circumstance where the PTS is a benefit.

PTS lowering the cost to build roads, or rails, or making rails available earlier, might be more thematically appropriate.  Thing is, rails are available plenty early in my mod anyways, so that's not a big whoop.

In stock, the Empath Guild's infiltration benefit is permanent.  I would expect it to be so in WTP, but I have not verified it.  If it does not, I say that's a bug.

Offline MercantileInterest

Re: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod
« Reply #1355 on: Yesterday at 05:21:14 AM »
You took crawlers out of the alphax. I had mistakenly thought you left them in but done some exe wizardy so that they could only crawl and not be used for projects.

In the readme, you mention issues with crawlers. Other than project exploits, what do you have in mind?

Re: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod
« Reply #1356 on: Yesterday at 02:16:50 PM »
You took crawlers out of the alphax. I had mistakenly thought you left them in but done some exe wizardy so that they could only crawl and not be used for projects.

In the readme, you mention issues with crawlers. Other than project exploits, what do you have in mind?


Here.
http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=21359.msg126485#msg126485

Check all the posts that lead to this conclusion. Keep in mind this is not my sole authoritative decision but rather weighted feedback average. Feel free to continue this discussion if you like. I'm open to move either way, as always.

Offline bvanevery

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Re: SMAX - The Will to Power - mod
« Reply #1357 on: Yesterday at 07:10:56 PM »
I did not directly participate in a supply crawler discussion.  However I think Tim knew my views on them well enough at the time.  Induktio wrote an AI that exploited and abused supply crawlers to the hilt, in concert with thermal boreholes and condensers.  This automated a lot of what the multiplayer crowd was doing manually.  It was pretty much the golden One True Successful path through the game.

It wasn't in my personal play style repertoire and not something I particularly enjoy.  I've done my worlds full of densely packed boreholes.  I've done my super capitols with a gazillion crawlers feeding it energy.  They're abusive and not that entertaining to do over and over again.  They're a form of grinding, so I don't do them.  I tend to do "forest and forget" because of that key word, forget.  You plant some trees at the beginning, mostly your job is soon done.  Doesn't put Planet thousands of meters underwater.

So, once I understood how some players and Induktio's AI would do things, I changed my mod to thwart it.  I didn't banish any of these tactics, but I substantially delayed them until the late game.  If you want to win that way, you can, but there are a number of other ways to win.  I deprived these tactics of their status as the One True Way to win the game.  I didn't want to be forced to slavishly imitate such tactics in order to keep up.

I also doubled the amount of time it takes to build these things, to slow down the hit parade.  And supply crawlers are more expensive.  That doesn't affect Secret Project goosing much, as you're just working with bigger denominations of minerals.  But it does penalize energy and minerals harvesting, which is very much my intent.  It shouldn't be quite such a gravy train.

Supply crawlers pose a real problem for game balance.  The stock game is in no way balanced with them, they are easily exploited.  Any mod worth its salt IMO, needs to do something about supply crawlers.  Banning them entirely, is a reasonable decision in my view, because they're that bad.  I took a more nuanced approach, but it doesn't trouble me at all, to see them gone.

I might suggest reusing the art assets for something though.  A binary mod, probably does make that possible somehow.

In my own mod, I banned choppers, with the exception of my 1 Unity Lifter unit.  I somewhat miss having chopper artwork flailing around.  However it's not worth the dire consequences to the game mechanics, of having the chopper chassis available.  My mod targets the stock binary only, no binary modding, so banning was the only reasonable option.  I did try choppers with few movement points, but they're so boring that I never build them.  They're especially useless on Huge maps, so I just said, time to get rid of them completely.

 

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