Author Topic: 2012 01 Lost Eden GOTM: Stranger In A Strange World (SMAC)  (Read 12157 times)

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Offline sisko

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Re: January 2012 Lost Eden GOTM: Stranger In A Strange World (SMAC)
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2012, 01:17:45 PM »
of course we have a winner. i'll come back with details later today.
Anyone else feels like it's time to fix the faction graphics bug?

Offline Kilkakon

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Re: January 2012 Lost Eden GOTM: Stranger In A Strange World (SMAC)
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2012, 01:29:03 PM »
I'm excited. ;nuke;

Offline sisko

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Re: January 2012 Lost Eden GOTM: Stranger In A Strange World (SMAC)
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2012, 01:33:03 PM »
you mean ;excite; ?
Anyone else feels like it's time to fix the faction graphics bug?

Offline Kilkakon

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Re: January 2012 Lost Eden GOTM: Stranger In A Strange World (SMAC)
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2012, 01:56:00 PM »
Maybe! My excitement can look rather like a nuclear explosion at times.

Offline sisko

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Re: January 2012 Lost Eden GOTM: Stranger In A Strange World (SMAC)
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2012, 05:54:36 PM »
Here we go submission for transcend.

(click to show/hide)

@I Have no Name: sorry, but it looks like you got it wrong this time. the save you attached to this post is from a Librarian scenario and is actually worst compared to the first one.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 06:43:50 PM by sisko »
Anyone else feels like it's time to fix the faction graphics bug?

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Re: January 2012 Lost Eden GOTM: Stranger In A Strange World (SMAC)
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2012, 06:23:52 PM »
Here is my transcend submission where I "Go Directly For New Jerusalem".  I captured New Jerusalem on turn 2183.  I have attached the winning save.

The pods were not so useful.  I got a useless Networking tech, a Unity Rover (using IOD), completion of a transport, and an IOD (which I captured).

I did reverse engineer Charmaders to lower their defense (and cost), which I thought was legal.

It was a fast victory, but not nearly as satisfying as completely eliminating Miriam, in my earlier submission.

@Earthmichael: your sneak attack was indeed a fast one, but in this save you are not able to keep the base at the end of the turn to see the message:
Quote
CONGRATULATIONS!

Brother-General Tristan of the Realm

YOU HAVE WON THE SCENARIO!

so, this submission is not valid. i'm sorry, but knowing your skills, i'm sure you will be a strong contender, if not the one to beat, in the following months.
Anyone else feels like it's time to fix the faction graphics bug?

Offline sisko

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Re: January 2012 Lost Eden GOTM: Stranger In A Strange World (SMAC)
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2012, 06:34:24 PM »
PROVISIONAL
Standings for January 2012 GotM:


Submissions for Transcend difficulty level:
1.Thomas @ ac2 2nd submission: MY2192* - total population: 6

2.Thomas @ ac2 1st submission: MY2195* - total population: 20

3.Earthmichael @ ac2 1st submission: MY2200* - total population population: 0


Not valid:
Earthmichael @ ac2 2nd submission: MY2183 - not valid: base lost at the end of turn.


Submissions for Librarian difficulty level:
1.I Have no Name @ WPC 1st submission: MY2188* - total population: 38

2.I Have no Name @ ac2 2nd submission: MY2194* - total population: 39

*the year you see the 'SCENARIO COMPLETED' message.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 12:36:41 PM by sisko »
Anyone else feels like it's time to fix the faction graphics bug?

Offline Earthmichael

Re: January 2012 Lost Eden GOTM: Stranger In A Strange World (SMAC)
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2012, 11:23:52 PM »

YOUR MISSION:
Brother-General Tristan, you need to capture New Jerusalem to end the conflict.
However, you should reduce civilian losses as much as possible.
Each population unit in an original Believer base (whether you captured it or not) counts towards the score of this Game of the Month.

<a name=\"06\">STANDINGS FOR THE January 2012 GotM COMPETITION:[/url]
The standings will be calculated using the following criteria (in this exact order):
- difficulty level;
- number of turns needed to reach the objective;
- total population of the Believers (the more, the better).

Meaning:
The games played on lesser difficulty level won't be able to beat a superior level.
On the same difficulty level, the scenario completed in less turns will outweigh the others.
If the objective was reached in the same number of turns, the total population of the Believers will be the tie-breaker.


According to the mission parameters, capturing New Jerusalem ends the conflict.  Period.  No counterattack.  No holding period.  The mission parameters do not say ANYTHING about having to hold New Jerusalem for some number of turns afterwards.

I could have easily played my attack in such a way that I could have held New Jerusalem for one turn.  All I would need to do is simply move the boats and IODs into the city to reinforce it.

Furthermore, you did not tell anyone to look for the "winning" message.  Indeed, on my earlier submission, where I completely wiped out the Believers, I did not get such a message.

If you want to insist on this unspecified goal of holding the city, you should at least give me a few hours to make a submission that meets the goal.  Furthermore, you should have told me when I made the submission that it did not meet parameters, instead of saying nothing, leading me to believe that I had won.  In the future, please tell someone if their submission is not meeting one of the guidelines after it is submitted, until waiting until the contest end date to spring the surprise.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 11:32:17 PM by Earthmichael »

Offline Buster's Uncle

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Re: January 2012 Lost Eden GOTM: Stranger In A Strange World (SMAC)
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2012, 11:35:29 PM »
Sorry about that; sisko is juggling a million different things between running this place and having a real life (that he's been rather neglecting lately).  He just didn't find out until well past the deadline - if we give everyone one last chance to make another submission, what's the point of deadlines? 

We'll make it up to you somehow, I promise.

Offline sisko

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Re: January 2012 Lost Eden GOTM: Stranger In A Strange World (SMAC)
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2012, 11:51:32 PM »
According to the mission parameters, capturing New Jerusalem ends the conflict.  Period.  No counterattack.  No holding period.  The mission parameters do not say ANYTHING about having to hold New Jerusalem for some number of turns afterwards.

I could have easily played my attack in such a way that I could have held New Jerusalem for one turn.  All I would need to do is simply move the boats and IODs into the city to reinforce it.

If you want to insist on this unspecified goal of holding the city, you should at least give me a few hours to make a submission that meets the goal.  Furthermore, you should have told me when I made the submission that it did not meet parameters, instead of saying nothing, leading me to believe that I had won.

yes, but as you very well know, this is a turn based strategy game. all calculations are made at the end of the turn.
that's the reason why the winning message comes at the begining of the next turn.
don't get me wrong, i'm not saying you should hold the base a number of turns.
it's just that this scenario ends when the pop-up with the message appears and in your save it does not appear.

well, that being said, i will try to be more precise when it comes to defining the rules.
Anyone else feels like it's time to fix the faction graphics bug?

Offline Earthmichael

Re: January 2012 Lost Eden GOTM: Stranger In A Strange World (SMAC)
« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2012, 12:17:40 AM »
1. No one said ANYTHING about a pop-up message until now.  Indeed, when I won previously (by total victory), I did NOT get a pop up message.

2. I met the WRITTEN mission specification.  If you had something else in mind, sorry, but I can't read minds.  If you want to be fair, you must judge by the WRITTEN mission specification.  The written specification said "capturing New Jerusalem ends the conflict".  I captured New Jerusalem, so I won.  It is very cut and dried.  If you want to judge fairly, you have to judge by what you wrote, not what you thought.

3. It is NOT true that all calculations are made at the end of the turn.  For example, if I reach transcenence, I win immediately.  No one has a chance to react.  If I call for and win a council vote, I win immediately.   If I capture the last opposing city, I win immediately.  That is true for ALL normal victory conditions; they are NOT evaluated at the end of the turn.  I did not even hit End Turn after I captured New Jerusalem, since I had won the scenario at that point.

4. You owe it to people to at least give ONE day of notice before the deadline if you determine that their entry is not valid.  The point of deadlines is to end normal submissions.  If you judge that someone had fulfilled the stated requirement, but had not met the unstated requirements, it is perfectly valid to extend the deadline to give a chance to meet the unstated requirements (or better yet, judge only by the written requirements).

This being said, here is my new submission:

« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 12:36:53 AM by Earthmichael »

Offline Kilkakon

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Re: January 2012 Lost Eden GOTM: Stranger In A Strange World (SMAC)
« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2012, 12:29:06 AM »
Well I hope that you all enjoyed the scenario. :)

Offline Buster's Uncle

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Re: January 2012 Lost Eden GOTM: Stranger In A Strange World (SMAC)
« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2012, 12:32:10 AM »
(I think we've lost sisko for the night; he has to get up for work in about three hours, and is not going to have a good day...)

This puts us in a very awkward position, Earthmichael.  It's not fair to you to regect your submission because of a mistake we made, granted, but it's not fair to Thomas to accept it incomplete or late, either - and we don't want either of you to feel cheated. 

Is there any way I can bribe you to accept the Judge's ruling with a little art slave time?  I would gladly make you and install, free of EC charge, a custom avatar to your exacting specifications, for example.  I can do custom smilies, too.  Any possibility of something like that?   They tell me I'm pretty good at the computer art...

Offline Kilkakon

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Re: January 2012 Lost Eden GOTM: Stranger In A Strange World (SMAC)
« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2012, 12:40:07 AM »
And I can do paper artwork if that's preferred. :)

Offline Earthmichael

Re: January 2012 Lost Eden GOTM: Stranger In A Strange World (SMAC)
« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2012, 12:52:51 AM »
I really appreciate the bribe, it is more the principle of the thing than the prize.  People need to believe that the contest will be judged fairly or they will not be motivated to make submission.  You hurt the contest more than me when you judge unfairly.

Look, if you want to be fair, judge ONLY by what was WRITTEN.  That is fair.  By that standard, I won, period.

If you refuse to judge by the WRITTEN specification, then it is only fair to give notice of the new requirements, and extend the deadline to meet the new requirements.  That is only fair.

If you refuse to do either, it puts your whole contest in question.  If you don't judge by the WRITTEN objectives, then it makes the entire contest arbitrary.  For any scenario, a judge can say, oops, we meant that you had to do "xyz", and we disqualify any submission that does not meet this requirement, even if it was not part of the written objectives.


Ask Thomas to make a ruling on this.  If he does not agree, I will abide by his viewpoint.

 

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