Author Topic: Thinker mod military capability, attempt 4  (Read 367 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bvanevery

  • Emperor of the Tanks
  • Librarian
  • *
  • Posts: 2986
  • €657
  • View Inventory
  • Send /Gift
  • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  
  • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
  • AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Thinker mod military capability, attempt 4
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2019, 01:47:05 AM »
  • Publish
  • tooth pull tech
    tooth pull tech

    MY 2244.  Finally I learn Advanced Ecological Engineering from the Planetary Datalinks.  I've been Build focused since forever, trying to get to this, for not particularly good reasons anymore.  I'm not sure why 3 other factions suddenly have it, as they didn't before, but here it is.  I seem to recall quitting the last game not very long after obtaining this.  There's something about it that really rubs in the pointlessness of this whole exercise.  Oh, I remember what it is.  The feeling that you have better technology, that you can't afford to build.  You're too innundated to allocate minerals, and too cash strapped to upgrade.

    I'm not sure if I've passed into complete pointlessness yet, as I don't actually know how this game would end, or if it's winnable.  But the game has certainly gotten old, all this waiting around to very gradually beat up Yang, while being hamstrung in anything else I do.  I'm definitely feeling serious mouseclick fatigue, and at a minimum, I may soon call it a night.  Feeling that way at 9:30 PM is rather early by my standards, and is a sign of great boredom.

    kill them aliens
    kill them aliens

    I think it's kind of cool that Morgan finally did something militarily useful.  Not so much useful to me, as I've been nominally at war with the Usurpers for a long time, without a shot fired between us.  I did it to keep someone else happy, I guess Morgan.  Yeah Morgan, go fight something!   ;morganercise :stickpoke:

    I think some of Yang's diffusion of strength, is he decided to fight the Usurpers, or vice versa.  It's my job to make Yang pay dearly for that. 

    quicksand
    quicksand

    Oh, crap.  I just built my link road on terrain that's 1 meter above sea level.  That's Everglades flat!  Did you know that different species manifest in altitudes of only 1 inch difference?  If my Formers die then they die, but I need to get my real troops onto higher ground.

    I actually complete the Dream Twister without needing to take supply crawlers off of my mines.  I have 2 Artifacts to try to gain another Secret Project with.  However I only have 1 unlinked Network Node.  I have 1 started on the mainland with 0 minerals in it, and I have 1 at the Manifold Nexus that's half completed.  I put 1 Artifact on a Cruiser Transport and start sailing for the Nexus.  I also start on a spare copy of the Dream Twister, so that if I get another Secret Project, I'm not starting from scratch.

    Offline bvanevery

    • Emperor of the Tanks
    • Librarian
    • *
    • Posts: 2986
    • €657
    • View Inventory
    • Send /Gift
    • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  
    • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
    • AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
      • View Profile
      • Awards
    Re: Thinker mod military capability, attempt 4
    « Reply #31 on: March 13, 2019, 02:25:37 AM »
  • Publish
  • Yang has got no defense
    Yang has got no defense

    MY 2245.  This is the kind of flaw that I have previously observed of Thinker's AI.  There's nothing to stop me from taking this base this turn.  Additionally, the AI keeps building facilities when base is imminently threatened with capture, instead of at least making a last ditch effort to throw up a garrison unit.  It's out of balance.  I know Yang has been fighting Marr, but that was Yang's choice, not mine.  Nobody told him to commit lots of troops to invading Marr, when he's clearly being invaded by me.

    I can't believe it.  Sensor Arrays and Perimeter Defense enable a Commando Scout defender to take out a Disciplined Impact Needlejet.   And I thought I didn't need to go through the formality of the usual base defense stripping or artillery shelling drills.  Well now I know.  Now I send a Veteran against a Hardened.  That goes more like you'd expect.    My other Disciplined can surely take out a 70% wounded Commando.

    I steal Yang's map using one of the old, slow, armored probe teams, just to have a complete picture of how he may have spread.  There's not much to tell, I pretty much had the picture.  I walk in with my ECM unit, forgetting to send my wounded unit it.  Yang wants to talk and I cut him off.  I can probably use the land and body count of his empire.

    I lose a Disciplined Gun Jet to a Veteran Former.  It wasn't even near a Sensor Array.  Well, those Gun Jets sure helped my cause once upon a time.

    I sent a Fungicidal Former onto some fungus near what's left of the Borehole Complex, to cut a better path than the 1 meter above sea level path I've got.  I stirred up a mindworm.  I discovered that my +50% PSI offense from the Dream Twister, more than makes up for my -20% due to -2 PLANET.  It's like having the offensive firepower of +3 PLANET.  Brainpower?

    I am badly in need of garrison units, and Formers.  And Secret Project advantages.  I guess you can say, I'm badly in need.  Even the Hive is considered better than I am, although positionally, I think I'm better.  I have many Secret Projects and he has none.

    Morgan sells me Eudaimonia for 275 credits.  I have 31 credits left.  Now I could pop boom, but I'd have to rearrange stuff.  I trade it to Lal for his Silksteel Alloys.  I don't like that, but I'm trying to position myself for another Secret Project and need all the techs I can get.

    Zhakarov the tech trader
    Zhakarov the tech trader

    Zhakarov is like a used rug salesman.  Large tech, small tech, any tech will do!  We got your tech right here.  I get a Temple of Planet, and for the 1st time ever, revealing the map is actually useful because I've never launched a satellite.  Now I can see how awful and pockmarked everyone's land is.

    sink it! sink it!
    sink it! sink it!

    Zhakarov also gives me Unified Field Theory before signing off, because I'm po.  Meanwhile he has 47 Network Nodes, the Network Backbone, and has built one Industrial Lab. One!

    I decide I need garrison units to take over Yang.  I will stop making Fusion Speeder Supplies and start making ECM Impact Infantry.  Maybe some Super Formers while I'm at it, although I think my existing fleet is going to mostly build a rail.  I'm going to shift my government too, but I don't have the money to do it this turn.  I'm hoping by the time I'm ready to worry about Secret Projects again, Zhakarov might give me another tech.

    MY 2246.  I go Fundamentalist.  I lose money but gain morale and police.  I don't think I need to care about research anymore.  Zhakarov will probably give me anything I'm going to get.
    « Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 02:48:40 AM by bvanevery »

    Offline bvanevery

    • Emperor of the Tanks
    • Librarian
    • *
    • Posts: 2986
    • €657
    • View Inventory
    • Send /Gift
    • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  
    • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
    • AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
      • View Profile
      • Awards
    Re: Thinker mod military capability, attempt 4
    « Reply #32 on: March 13, 2019, 03:27:36 AM »
  • Publish
  • Lal thinks he's God giving floods
    Lal thinks he's God giving floods

    MY 2247.  Seas to rise 266 meters.  I switch to Socialist in preparation for a pop boom.  My PLANET rating is now +1.  With the Dream Twister, that should give me a +60% PSI attack.  Guess I should make some mindworms!

    can I get it done
    can I get it done

    MY 2248.  I get this from the Planetary Datalinks.  We'll see!  Everyone is building it, but Lal only needs 5 turns.  I switch to Eudaimonic, triggering a pop boom in cities with a Children's Creche.  Belatedly I realize I'm going to need a lot of Hab Complexes.  One of my core cities becomes unhappy, so I switch my budget to 50-10-40.  I haven't built a single Hologram Theater this whole game, that's how pressured my situation has been.

    Offline bvanevery

    • Emperor of the Tanks
    • Librarian
    • *
    • Posts: 2986
    • €657
    • View Inventory
    • Send /Gift
    • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  
    • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
    • AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
      • View Profile
      • Awards
    Re: Thinker mod military capability, attempt 4
    « Reply #33 on: March 13, 2019, 03:57:01 AM »
  • Publish
  • Lal is cheating
    Lal is cheating

    MY 2249.  4 turns until Lal completes.  I might get it done before then.  Lal is doing 59 eco-damage in this city alone.  Why is it not surrounded by fungus and big stacks of mindworms?  That's what would happen if I had a city with that kind of eco-damage.  And I'm the one with the Pholus Mutagen!

    Yang is defenseless.  I'm limited only by the speed of my advancing infantry, my rails, and my willingness to produce garrison units.  I'm building Hab Complexes in most cities now.

    It approaches midnight and I'm going to bed.  Die tomorrow, Yang!

    Offline bvanevery

    • Emperor of the Tanks
    • Librarian
    • *
    • Posts: 2986
    • €657
    • View Inventory
    • Send /Gift
    • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  
    • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
    • AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
      • View Profile
      • Awards
    Re: Thinker mod military capability, attempt 4
    « Reply #34 on: March 13, 2019, 03:03:05 PM »
  • Publish
  • Morganites invade the Hive
    Morganites invade the Hive

    MY 2250.  The Morganites took 4 Hive bases this turn, emphasizing the puniness and defenselessness of the Hive.  I'm not sure what method they used.  Every base was taken with a Drop unit, but I'm not seeing where those units came from.  Morgan doesn't have orbital drop capability yet.  Nobody does; we're all racing to complete the Space Elevator.  The other method is Graviton Theory and nobody's got that yet.

    before the heavy Morganite invasion
    before the heavy Morganite invasion

    The Hive had 3 bases wide open before they were invaded.  I only see 1 air drop unit within 8 squares of these bases though.  I suppose the AI could have dropped a unit and walked 3 squares into the bases, as the Hive has very little in the way of air defense.  Even with that though, I'm not seeing where they coughed up the units from.

    This smells like cheating.  The AI is not known for using sea units to subvert coastal land bases, and Yang didn't have any drop units to subvert.  I don't think drop units can launch from a ship at sea, unless they were on a Carrier, and I've never seen the AI build a Carrier.  Checking Morgan's unit inventory, I only see 3 Fusion Destroyer Transports.

    I am highly suspicious that the AI has awarded itself orbital drop capability prematurely.  Working on the Space Elevator doesn't give you orbital drop!  I am marking this as a bug, because coming up with 4 more drop units spread over a wide area deep within enemy territory is highly implausible.  A further question is whether this is a generic bug or a Thinker mod bug.

    Offline bvanevery

    • Emperor of the Tanks
    • Librarian
    • *
    • Posts: 2986
    • €657
    • View Inventory
    • Send /Gift
    • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  
    • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
    • AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
      • View Profile
      • Awards
    Re: Thinker mod military capability, attempt 4
    « Reply #35 on: March 13, 2019, 03:41:17 PM »
  • Publish
  • yet more flooding
    yet more flooding

    MY 2251.  Sea levels to rise to 466 meters.  I do a flooding check.  Of course city I'm building the Space Elevator in is threatened, although it won't be immediate.  Lal needs 2 turns to complete.  This would be a good time to rush it, but I will wait until the end of my turn to see what I can do.

    Once again lost a Disciplined Impact Needlejet to a mere Hardened Scout defender.  Whatever.  Then I chose to lose a Gun Jet to that same wounded unit.  Whatever!  At last a wounded Hardened Impact Needlejet kills it.

    Even taking out a Scout on open ground wounds one of my planes pretty badly.  8 to 3 odds, what's up with that?  Forest and a Sensor Array I suppose.  I'm not doing the usual "destroy the Sensor Arrays" exercise, as I can actually kill the puny Scout defenders.  If the Hive had a more normal defense, I'd be slogging a lot more.  As is, there is an empty base right next to my infantry, that I simply didn't have a Speeder unit to reach.

    I strip the supply crawlers that were only working forests and rush the Space Elevator.  I have 84 credits remaining.

    Offline bvanevery

    • Emperor of the Tanks
    • Librarian
    • *
    • Posts: 2986
    • €657
    • View Inventory
    • Send /Gift
    • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  
    • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
    • AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
      • View Profile
      • Awards
    Re: Thinker mod military capability, attempt 4
    « Reply #36 on: March 13, 2019, 04:09:33 PM »
  • Publish
  • MY 2252.  The Peacekeepers are invading the Morganites.  I will stay out of it as long as I can, preferring to finish off Yang.

    With the Space Elevator completed I am now orbital drop capable.  I plan to remake my capitol in that city, as it's a little closer to the territory I've conquered from Yang.

    cheater cheater pumpkin eater
    cheater cheater pumpkin eater

    Morgan's cheating invasion of Hive territory didn't give me any time to stall.  Due to a Synthmetal defender showing up, I needed to move next to one of his bases to dismantle a Sensor Array.  When we made contact he gave me a "talking to".  Well I'm not switching my Socialist ways any time soon, Morgan.  I've got a whole game's worth of population catch-up to implement.

    I beg Zhakarov for tech.  He gives me N-Space Compression.  This pretty much justifies my social engineering choices.  Zhakarov gives me tech faster than I could ever hope to research it.

    Offline bvanevery

    • Emperor of the Tanks
    • Librarian
    • *
    • Posts: 2986
    • €657
    • View Inventory
    • Send /Gift
    • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  
    • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
    • AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
      • View Profile
      • Awards
    Re: Thinker mod military capability, attempt 4
    « Reply #37 on: March 13, 2019, 05:00:09 PM »
  • Publish
  • MY 2253.  Yang did me the favor of attacking my fusion unit, killing his defender that would have otherwise been much harder to overcome.  I fry his remaining wounded Former and enter the base, healing my wounded unit.  He's still not ready to surrender though.  He's got enough sea bases that perhaps he never will.

    MY 2254.  I've run out of garrison troops.  Priority is going to making pop boom cities happy.

    Got other things to go do in real life.

    Offline bvanevery

    • Emperor of the Tanks
    • Librarian
    • *
    • Posts: 2986
    • €657
    • View Inventory
    • Send /Gift
    • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  
    • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
    • AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
      • View Profile
      • Awards
    Re: Thinker mod military capability, attempt 4
    « Reply #38 on: March 13, 2019, 09:08:35 PM »
  • Publish
  • growing with the big boys
    growing with the big boys

    MY 2256.  If only I can get the food.  And the happiness.  I think this late in the game, in some kind of giant future city races, I probably get killed.

    Lal is drowning us
    Lal is drowning us

    766 meters.  Worse, the Manifold Nexus is sinking.  I need to shore it up before it does.  My experience is once it's underwater, it's broken forever.  You can't raise it out of the water again to get it working.

    I beg Zhakarov for tech.  He gives me Biomachinery.  He already built Clinical Immortality.  I wouldn't have the resources to build it anyways.  I'm playing catch-up on population growth.  At least no one is building Hab Domes yet.

    slowing the flood
    slowing the flood

    I try to give myself more time to deal with the Manifold Nexus sinking.  It outweighs other calculations.  I don't think it will stop the flooding anyways.  Previous experience is it may not even slow it down all that much.

    Offline bvanevery

    • Emperor of the Tanks
    • Librarian
    • *
    • Posts: 2986
    • €657
    • View Inventory
    • Send /Gift
    • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  
    • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
    • AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
      • View Profile
      • Awards
    Re: Thinker mod military capability, attempt 4
    « Reply #39 on: March 15, 2019, 08:44:40 PM »
  • Publish
  • A new version of Thinker mod has come out.  It says it has substantial differences from the version I have tested in this game:

    Well well, now we have a new develop build (version 20190314) available from the downloads. This update is focused on the build priorities and terraforming:

    * Thinker now supports formers based on all triads. Design_units will also create gravship formers when the techs are available.
    * Formers will build less roads and try to avoid placing them on forest tiles when they're not needed.
    * Other smaller tweaks to former priorities.
    * Military unit production priority is now notably increased from previous amounts.
    * Whenever AI loses bases to conquest, this also triggers an extra priority to devote nearly all available resources to building new units.
    * During peacetime these modifiers will have a much lesser effect, so economy building should still work.
    * Small changes to social_ai to prefer priority category models more often. But social priority/opposition effect values (e.g. PLANET) have no effect because of the engine, and are still ignored.

    It needs some more testing to determine if the military buildup is enough now. The next step would probably be to implement credit rushing for production items, currently it does not do that. It would be pretty powerful, since now rushing is basically a human exploit.

    This update doesn't change anything with the base spacing though. For example the new road building method would need yet more changes if the spacing was changed from current values.

    It has been 2 days since I've been able to put any concentration into this game.   My mind and heart simply aren't into it anymore.  I'm more interested in whether "less roads" and "more military units" makes a big difference to AI faction conquerability.  I don't think it's fair or interesting to test that starting late game, by switching the older .exe for the newer one.  I think this game is likely to end with one of the AIs winning, unless I pull out some last minute heroics that fully exploit the weakness of its military defense.  If that's going away, there's really no point in knowing whether it would go one way or the other.

    So, I will start a new game.  I will be paying special attention to whether I get a good, ok, or bad start in terms of land quality.  I thought this start was so-so.  My previous game was really bad with fungus everywhere and 2 enemies breathing down my neck immediately.  Not what I'd usually expect out of a Huge map game, and it makes me wonder about the new placement algorithm.

    I will try to "spread more" because I seem to get punished severely if I don't.  I am wondering whether my spreading is meaningful in the face of the AI faction advantages though.  Both the buffs for Transcend, and not paying any meaningful eco-damage penalties.

     

    * User

    Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
    Did you miss your activation email?


    Login with username, password and session length

    Select language:

    * Community poll

    SMAC v.4 SMAX v.2 (or previous versions)
    -=-
    14 (6%)
    XP Compatibility patch
    -=-
    8 (3%)
    Gog version for Windows
    -=-
    64 (27%)
    Scient (unofficial) patch
    -=-
    24 (10%)
    Kyrub's latest patch
    -=-
    14 (6%)
    Yitzi's latest patch
    -=-
    82 (35%)
    AC for Mac
    -=-
    2 (0%)
    AC for Linux
    -=-
    5 (2%)
    Gog version for Mac
    -=-
    9 (3%)
    No patch
    -=-
    10 (4%)
    Total Members Voted: 232
    AC2 Wiki Logo

    * Random quote

    The boundary between cold water and warm, the Thermocline, has been important to undersea warfare for hundreds of years of man's history. Now we have found away to harness that power for constructive purposes. Once what cloaked us can now feed us. Once what shielded us from death, now brings us life.
    ~Captain Ulrik Svensgaard 'The Ripple and the Wave'

    * Select your theme

    *

    Facebook Comments