Author Topic: Political mumbo jumbo  (Read 451 times)

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Offline Unorthodox

Political mumbo jumbo
« on: November 07, 2018, 03:19:06 PM »
Because I don't want politics in my other thread. 

Any surprises in your local elections? 

Here in Utah, a medical marijuana proposition passed.  This is notable as the LDS church took an extremely hard line against it, going as far as to use it's member list to email all members specifically to vote against it.  (which I'm still questioning how that was legal, but Utah) 

While previously the church has indicated it's for or against particular items, it's never before specifically told it's members to get out and opposed something. 

DESPITE that, the proposition passed.  AFAIK this is the first time in Utah whatever position the church has supported has failed in the polls. 

http://www.kuer.org/post/utahns-greenlight-medical-marijuana-spite-religious-pushback#stream/0


There's also an anti-gerrymandering proposition I'm hoping wins, but it's nearly 50-50 (leading by about 5000 votes right now), not sure it's been officially called yet. 

Offline E_T

Re: Political mumbo jumbo
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2018, 05:22:11 PM »
Did the LDS "support" any other ballot initiatives this go around?

Hummm, someone could make a case that they are going beyond their tax exempt status.  Of course, they could just start and fund a SuperPAC and stay in the shadows...

But no matter, good for Utah!!
Three time Hugo Award Winning http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php
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Offline Unorthodox

Re: Political mumbo jumbo
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2018, 05:48:27 PM »
They very rarely work openly.  I think this and the gay marriage one some years back are the only ones in my memory.  They prefer to just manipulate the state government behind closed doors where good-standing LDS members of the government seek counsel on any law that touches on doctrine.  This is why our alcohol laws are so wacky. 

They've been steadily losing those good-standing members inside the government though.  I think they might have lost 1 or two more in the state congress.  Closer to 50-50. 

Offline Rusty Edge

Re: Political mumbo jumbo
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2018, 07:38:18 AM »
In Wisconsin, the election played out as it often does. Milwaukee gave the Democrats a big early lead, then Democratic stronghold Madison, and the GOP suburban counties that surround the two cities weigh in at the same time, with the net effect of trimming the Democratic lead substantially. After that the votes trickle in from rural upstate and everybody waits to see if they'll be enough for another GOP win. Wisconsin is the birthplace of the party after all.

Normally the inner city residents of Milwaukee and the students in Madison only turn out in presidential election years. As usual the GOP pulled ahead after midnight. Then Milwaukee reported that they'd found a bag of 15,000 votes that they hadn't counted yet. ( Oh really? Are you sure they haven't been lying around from the primary ? )  Sure enough, these votes were mostly for Democrats, flipping the election. So, Gov. Scott Walker decided not to concede until the results were certified.

Well, it's a case of one party rule in the city and county of Milwaukee. There's incompetence and neglegence, cronyism and corruption in the workforce and elected officials. The others look the other way, so nothing changes, and they get the government they deserve. But never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence alone. I imagine it's much the same in south Florida.

The results stood up to scrutiny and Walker conceded by Sunday. If Trump mobilized a cranky white vote here two years ago for himself, he can also take credit for a blue wave backlash that wiped out the state AG as well.

I'll put in a word for Walker here. He originally ran on job creation two terms and a recall ago. When the Great Recession hit, he decided to reform pensions rather lay people off in a tough economy as neihbor states were forced to do. Jobs have been his lode star, and he brought some, including Foxcon.  He went too Trump. Rather than running on his jobs record and crediting the economy to GOP control, he got into the weeds with "stand for the anthem" nonsesnse.


So, like his home county of Milwaukee, he got he deserved.

Offline Unorthodox

Re: Political mumbo jumbo
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2018, 01:31:28 PM »


Well, it's a case of one party rule in the city and county of Milwaukee. There's incompetence and neglegence, cronyism and corruption in the workforce and elected officials. The others look the other way, so nothing changes, and they get the government they deserve. But never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence alone. I imagine it's much the same in south Florida.


First time we've had a race close enough to see this.  Mia Love is suing to stop counting votes in the county she's losing (badly) in.  But go ahead and keep counting where she's winning. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/rep-mia-love-sues-to-halt-vote-count-in-salt-lake-county/2018/11/14/1b734c8c-e848-11e8-a939-9469f1166f9d_story.html?utm_term=.e45928953722

Offline Unorthodox

Re: Political mumbo jumbo
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2018, 01:35:17 PM »
Did the LDS "support" any other ballot initiatives this go around?

Hummm, someone could make a case that they are going beyond their tax exempt status.  Of course, they could just start and fund a SuperPAC and stay in the shadows...

But no matter, good for Utah!!

So, the church worked behind closed doors to modify what was voted on and agree to a 'compromise' that removes protections for employees.  So, you will be able to be fired for having medical marijuana.  I don't understand enough to know how that can possibly be legal, when the voters passed a binding resolution, how it can be changed.  I'm sure there's going to be lawyer involvement and millions of tax $ wasted now. 

https://fox13now.com/2018/11/14/utahs-medical-marijuana-initiative-is-about-to-get-swapped-out-with-a-compromise-bill-in-the-legislature/

Offline E_T

Re: Political mumbo jumbo
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2018, 11:00:15 PM »
How can they monkey with it once voters have approved it?
Three time Hugo Award Winning http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php
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Offline Geo

Re: Political mumbo jumbo
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2018, 12:19:01 PM »
First time we've had a race close enough to see this.  Mia Love is suing to stop counting votes in the county she's losing (badly) in.  But go ahead and keep counting where she's winning.

A court can decide what's done with the votes of an election?
Or is this a recount too?

Offline Geo


Offline Unorthodox

Re: Political mumbo jumbo
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2018, 01:22:08 PM »
It's not a recount.  I don't know how the hell it works honestly.  They called a special session of congress, made this new bill, and reportedly are going to get it passed prior to Prop 2 coming into effect (I think it gave the state a year to comply or something) thus nullifying prop 2 somehow. 

(to be clear, I work at a federal facility, so none of this impacts me personally, I'm governed by the federal ban still, just interested by the clear church and state matter on display.) 

Edit:  And really, there's nothing RELIGIOUSLY the church would have against marijuana.  In fact their doctrine on the matter would seem to encourage it as a medicine.  What's REALLY at play here is the fact the church owns a megacrapton of pharmaceutical stocks and is going to take a hit.  So, you have this really weird (to me) case of monetary  concerns driving church rhetoric to interfere politically. 

Offline Unorthodox

Re: Political mumbo jumbo
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2018, 01:28:58 PM »
https://fox13now.com/2018/11/14/utahs-medical-marijuana-initiative-is-about-to-get-swapped-out-with-a-compromise-bill-in-the-legislature/

I'm being censored by Fox.

Sorry, this content is not available in your region.

Quote
SALT LAKE CITY -- On Utah's Capitol Hill, lawmakers are finalizing a bill that would replace Proposition 2, the medical marijuana ballot initiative approved by voters last week.
Thursday morning, Fox 13 News learned TRUCE and others have retained attorney Rocky Anderson and are threatening a lawsuit over the involvement The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has had with the Utah Legislature regarding that bill.

Sponsors of Prop. 2 were meeting with opponents and legislative leadership on Wednesday night to hammer out some final language ahead of a Dec. 3 special session. A final "compromise" bill is expected to be made public next week, said Connor Boyack, the president of the Libertas Institute, who has been involved in the closed-door negotiations.

"What the public is going to see in the final special session is, from our perspective, about 90% of what was in Proposition 2. There’s some stuff we don’t like. There’s some stuff we’ve compromised on, but there’s some ways it’s better for patients. We’ve taken advantage of these negotiations to improve the proposal," he told FOX 13.

Rep. Brad Daw, R-Orem, who vigorously opposed Prop. 2, also believes the bill will be better for Utahns than what voters passed.


RELATED STORY
Utah Department of Health prepares to start distributing medical marijuana, expanding Medicaid

"I feel like we are honoring the will of the voters and doing it in a way that’s responsible and also protects those who need to be protected," he said.

The compromise bill came about as a result of Prop. 2 going on the November ballot. Supporters and opponents were gearing up for vicious campaigns when House Speaker Greg Hughes, R-Draper, brought together the Utah Patients Coalition (Prop. 2's sponsor), Libertas Institute, the Utah Medical Association, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and others to craft an agreement to give Utah a medical cannabis program, regardless of whether the initiative passed or failed.

Supporters of Prop. 2 still urged voters to approve it to send a message to lawmakers. It passed with about 53% of the vote.

"We understand as a group there are some minor changes that need to be made [to Prop. 2], but not the wholesale slaughter of this that it appears the opposition has compromised on," said Doug Rice, the community liaison for Together for Responsible Use and Cannabis Education (TRUCE) which pushed medical marijuana legislation.

TRUCE has vocally opposed the compromise bill and pressed lawmakers to simply enact what voters approved in Prop. 2.


RELATED STORY
Utah’s medical marijuana initiative could also test the LDS Church’s political clout

Boyack said Prop. 2 sponsors had no choice but to negotiate.

"If we would just say 'Proposition 2 or die,' the legislature -- as it’s probably going to do with some of the other initiatives -- was going to start monkeying with it and not in a good way for patients," he said.

Still, some lawmakers are uneasy with overriding a ballot initiative. At the House Minority Caucus luncheon on Wednesday, Democratic lawmakers quizzed legislative lawyers on the compromise bill being proposed. Rep. Karen Kwan, D-Taylorsville, said she was troubled that a final bill hasn't really been released for her or the public to see.

"I think voters were already upset with the legislature and that’s why they wrote this, they signed this, they came to vote this in. The thing is, it passed," Rep. Kwan told FOX 13.


RELATED STORY
Utah’s medical marijuana ballot initiative will pass

House Republicans also were briefed on the bill in the Majority Caucus. Rep. Daw said he believed they have the votes to pass the compromise legislation.

"At the end of the day, it needs to pass. I think it will pass," he said. "It is a much better bill than Prop. 2. And at this point, it’s better than doing nothing. It will pass."

The bill is still being tweaked, but Boyack said there were some key differences:

"Grow your own" if you don't live within 100 miles of a dispensary is gone.
The list of disorders and patient conditions has been modified slightly and the definition of "pain" is expanded.
"Buds" are allowed, but will be dispensed in blister packs with dosage limits.
No edibles or candies, but a cube-shaped gummy or a lozenge.
Oils, tinctures, topicals and vaping are OK.
State-run "pharmacies" to dispense cannabis product. There will also be some limited private dispensaries allowed.
On Dec. 1, "affirmative defense" takes effect, meaning an eligible medical cannabis patient would not likely be prosecuted for marijuana possession, even if it was bought illegally.
State agencies are preparing to figure out how to dispense medical cannabis. Utah Agriculture and Food Commissioner LuAnn Adams met with lawmakers on Wednesday to discuss their concerns. Under both, the agency has been tasked with "growing" marijuana (but in reality, they will contract with state licensed cultivators).

Commissioner Adams raised concerns about transporting it and what happens if some of the medical cannabis were to wind up on the streets.

"Make sure that doesn’t get on the black market," she said. "We just want to make sure it’s safe for the public."

TRUCE was urging its supporters to call their lawmakers and Governor Gary Herbert's office to push for Prop. 2 to be implemented instead of the compromise bill. TRUCE was also not ruling out a lawsuit.

"The gamut is available to us. Any of our options are being considered including litigation," Rice told FOX 13.

A public hearing on the compromise bill is scheduled for Nov. 26. You can read the latest draft of the bill here.

UPDATE: FOX 13 obtained a "preservation letter" Thursday morning sent by TRUCE that calls on the legislature and the LDS Church to maintain records relating to the compromise bill in case of a lawsuit.

Offline Geo

Re: Political mumbo jumbo
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2018, 06:21:30 PM »
I gather then that the result of a ballot initiative is not binding by state law? Merely a bad move by local politicians when going against the results?

Offline Unorthodox

Re: Political mumbo jumbo
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2018, 07:09:01 PM »
It was a "binding resolution" but I'm not entirely sure what exactly that allows them to do from a legal perspective.  Since lawsuits are being talked about, I don't know that what they are trying to do is completely legal either. 

Offline Geo

Re: Political mumbo jumbo
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2018, 07:13:45 PM »
IOW, To Be Continued...

Offline E_T

Re: Political mumbo jumbo
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2018, 07:26:33 PM »
Supposed to be, which is why it takes some effort to even get the issue onto the ballot in the first place.
Three time Hugo Award Winning http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php
Worship the Comic here
Get your schlock mercenary fix here

 

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