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Author Topic:   Human Cloning in South Korea

BoomBoom posted 12-16-98 02:11 PM ET
South korean scientists reproted today that they succeeded in cloning a 30 year old human being. They used the same technique as for Dolly, and let the cell divide to a 4-cell stage. They then killed the "embryo", but said that if implanted in a womb, it would have grown as a genetically identical individual to the donor.
Personally I think human cloning, if tightly regulated has massive potential medical benefits. If you have a blastocyst with the same DNA as you, then (not yet though) you can with the right growth factors etc., grow heart cells that were damaged in a stroke, brain cells that produce the protein that lacks in Parkinson's, bone marrow cells if you have leukemia etc. You won't have to worry about donor compatibility and availability.
I can see however that some people will have problems with these developments. They envision armies of identical people (Brave New World etc.), reducing genetical variability and that sort of thing. And there is the religious argument of course but i think we covered that in the Abortion threads .
Personally I think people now are afraid of it partly because of all the media horror (especially bad here in England), and partly because people are usually afraid of new developments (I mean people used to think that the train was the devils work). I think that this work is extremely important, and shouldn't be forbidden just because public opinion is making decisions about things they don't know anything about. Well anyway, I'd like to know what you lot think of it, and I can see some discussions coming up between te religious and the scientists.
Tolls posted 12-16-98 02:59 PM ET
Interesting stuff.
I'll have to ponder the ramifications this evening, again.
I'm still opposed to genetic copyrighting, and the related engineering of foodstuffs (ie grains and the like), but that's another topic in itself.
Zorloc posted 12-16-98 03:07 PM ET
I remember when Prince Charles (UK) gave a speach lamenting the evils of genetic manipulation. It was the best laugh I had had in quite a while. If anyone knows the horrors of genetic manipulation it would be royal...
Jojo posted 12-16-98 03:10 PM ET
What are you, crazy? The train IS the devil's work!
For a very brief moment, however, I was afraid of some slur coming out, i.e., "That's why they all look alike"
And why not start off cloning Carmen Electra? The first version, has, unfortunately, been soiled. No telling what Dennis and she share now....
And could we please be careful out there, what if Madonna or Rosie O'Donnell or Barney gets cloned? Isn't one set of Spice Girls or Teletubbies enough?
CClark posted 12-16-98 03:42 PM ET
This reminds me of a conversation I had years ago at University. My friends and I were trying to figure out where all the buxom blondes come from that get used in jean commercials. We decided that there must be a secret installation in Texas that is breeding "babes".
Knowing what we know now, I would have to say that it is a joint venture between the UoP and Morgan. The scientists get to dally with some of their creations (because they wouldn't get dates any other way) and Morgan gets the other half to sell his products.
Seeing as how the babe farm is in Texas (I forget how we figured that out, but we did have reasons) I think that Imran must be implicated in this somehow.
Imran Siddiqui posted 12-16-98 04:16 PM ET
That would be interesting that since the Babe Farm is in Texas, I'm implicated in this, sice I am from New Jersey. LOL!, New reasearch is in order, man!
Imran Siddiqui
Jojo posted 12-16-98 04:33 PM ET
Aha, so there's a connection to the babe farm in Texas and the New Jersey mob. Interesting. We didn't know that information until you provided it, Imran. Hopefully the family won't mind this transgression. But I suppose if they do, you might just find out where they buried Hoffa.
Imran Siddiqui posted 12-16-98 04:40 PM ET
Shh, Jojo, no one is supposed to know about Hoffa, and take care of Mulder and Scully for me .
Imran Siddiqui
Shadow-man
Gord McLeod posted 12-16-98 06:41 PM ET
BoomBoom, you have to be careful with 'clone farming' for transplantation purposes - when you get right down to it, a clone would be very much like an "identical twin" who happens to be younger than you by a great deal of time. Life experience causes identical twins to develop into very different people, even though they are genetically indistinguishable - even their fingerprints are individualized, not the same. Personalities are different, etc... you wouldn't end up with a perfect copy of yourself. Especially since gene splitting (natural or otherwise) is a messy business and you end up with unique physical traits on both twins anyways.
A clone would be no different... if you'll pardon the pun.
Fluke posted 12-16-98 08:57 PM ET
Jojo:
Madonna will be cloned in the future. And by playing Santiago and Miriam out against eachother, kicking Yang's ass, sleeping with Morgan and Deidre, and throwing the entire UoP into mystic Madonna studies, she'll be voted supreme leader of Planet
Imran Siddiqui posted 12-16-98 09:13 PM ET
Hmm, do you think that what these scientist did was ethical? I for one do. I think that with this technology, they'll soon be able to grow parts for people when they need them. Its the first step.
Imran Siddiqui
Fluke posted 12-16-98 09:23 PM ET
IIRC there has just been invested 10 billion dollars in growing bodyparts from peoples own DNA/tissue (can't remember which).
And I'm considering taking an education that leads to genetisist in a couple of years (or more) so I'm pretty much pro tinkering. Except from making plants resistant to toxins. Nothing good comes from opening up for more pesticides.
Victor Galis posted 12-16-98 10:38 PM ET
Who cares about what research is ethical? Science must go on! We have been delayed enough by conflicts with the church (a few centuries ago) we must have a period of free iquiry.
Q Cubed posted 12-17-98 12:07 AM ET
Ethics and science must go hand in hand. Cloning human body parts, i have to say is a good idea, allowing people to live by creating many more organs to be availible for transplants...however, with this technology, it is not inconcievable that some maniac may be able to clone hundreds of "super" humans with "beneficial" attributes and twist them a la Napoleon in Animal Farm...
Furthermore, one must be cautious with this technology...i can also see the point in time when so-called "Christians" who bomb abortion clinics begin to bomb the clone research facilities. As for those bombers, do they even realize what they're doing is murder and condemns them to their Hell according to their own Ten Commandments? Bombing abortion clinics and bashing medical research facilities where defenseless people are who don't fight back is no jihad or crusade.
But, i digress.
Unfortunately, the mere prospect of the cloning humans raises the specter of not only a Eugenics Wars where genetically alter people are cloned for a maniac's lust for power, but of a religious backlash from fanatics such as the "Lord's Believers".
Religion and Science would make a great partnership if they wouldn't contradict each other in minor things that can get blown out of proportion, y'know? I hope Thomas Aquinas's spirit helps us now.
Final Note: T'aehan Minguk, uri nara mansei!
Korea, May our Nation stand forever.
1001100110001
Gord McLeod posted 12-17-98 05:10 AM ET
My problem with the idea of cloning human body parts stems directly from the source of those parts. Are we talking about cloning a duplicate of the person for the purpose of then harvesting the clone for parts? Or are we speaking of cloning specific parts independently? If the former, I *STRONGLY* disagree, for the reasons I outlined above - that would be akin to harvesting one's twin sibling, as the clone would potentially be a very different individual than the donor/source. If however we're talking about cloning parts *only*, then yes, I think it's a very good idea.
BoomBoom posted 12-17-98 07:14 AM ET
Well it is probably the latter. Unless you call a clump of cells (about 256) your sibling. All the cells are still undifferentiated and therefore I wouldn't call them alive. It would basically be a basis for a cell culture using the right factors and conditions.
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Author	Topic: Human Cloning in South Korea
BoomBoom	posted 12-16-98 02:11 PM ET South korean scientists reproted today that they succeeded in cloning a 30 year old human being. They used the same technique as for Dolly, and let the cell divide to a 4-cell stage. They then killed the "embryo", but said that if implanted in a womb, it would have grown as a genetically identical individual to the donor. Personally I think human cloning, if tightly regulated has massive potential medical benefits. If you have a blastocyst with the same DNA as you, then (not yet though) you can with the right growth factors etc., grow heart cells that were damaged in a stroke, brain cells that produce the protein that lacks in Parkinson's, bone marrow cells if you have leukemia etc. You won't have to worry about donor compatibility and availability. I can see however that some people will have problems with these developments. They envision armies of identical people (Brave New World etc.), reducing genetical variability and that sort of thing. And there is the religious argument of course but i think we covered that in the Abortion threads . Personally I think people now are afraid of it partly because of all the media horror (especially bad here in England), and partly because people are usually afraid of new developments (I mean people used to think that the train was the devils work). I think that this work is extremely important, and shouldn't be forbidden just because public opinion is making decisions about things they don't know anything about. Well anyway, I'd like to know what you lot think of it, and I can see some discussions coming up between te religious and the scientists.
Tolls	posted 12-16-98 02:59 PM ET Interesting stuff. I'll have to ponder the ramifications this evening, again. I'm still opposed to genetic copyrighting, and the related engineering of foodstuffs (ie grains and the like), but that's another topic in itself.
Zorloc	posted 12-16-98 03:07 PM ET I remember when Prince Charles (UK) gave a speach lamenting the evils of genetic manipulation. It was the best laugh I had had in quite a while. If anyone knows the horrors of genetic manipulation it would be royal...
Jojo	posted 12-16-98 03:10 PM ET What are you, crazy? The train IS the devil's work! For a very brief moment, however, I was afraid of some slur coming out, i.e., "That's why they all look alike" And why not start off cloning Carmen Electra? The first version, has, unfortunately, been soiled. No telling what Dennis and she share now.... And could we please be careful out there, what if Madonna or Rosie O'Donnell or Barney gets cloned? Isn't one set of Spice Girls or Teletubbies enough?
CClark	posted 12-16-98 03:42 PM ET This reminds me of a conversation I had years ago at University. My friends and I were trying to figure out where all the buxom blondes come from that get used in jean commercials. We decided that there must be a secret installation in Texas that is breeding "babes". Knowing what we know now, I would have to say that it is a joint venture between the UoP and Morgan. The scientists get to dally with some of their creations (because they wouldn't get dates any other way) and Morgan gets the other half to sell his products. Seeing as how the babe farm is in Texas (I forget how we figured that out, but we did have reasons) I think that Imran must be implicated in this somehow.
Imran Siddiqui	posted 12-16-98 04:16 PM ET That would be interesting that since the Babe Farm is in Texas, I'm implicated in this, sice I am from New Jersey. LOL!, New reasearch is in order, man! Imran Siddiqui
Jojo	posted 12-16-98 04:33 PM ET Aha, so there's a connection to the babe farm in Texas and the New Jersey mob. Interesting. We didn't know that information until you provided it, Imran. Hopefully the family won't mind this transgression. But I suppose if they do, you might just find out where they buried Hoffa.
Imran Siddiqui	posted 12-16-98 04:40 PM ET Shh, Jojo, no one is supposed to know about Hoffa, and take care of Mulder and Scully for me . Imran Siddiqui Shadow-man
Gord McLeod	posted 12-16-98 06:41 PM ET BoomBoom, you have to be careful with 'clone farming' for transplantation purposes - when you get right down to it, a clone would be very much like an "identical twin" who happens to be younger than you by a great deal of time. Life experience causes identical twins to develop into very different people, even though they are genetically indistinguishable - even their fingerprints are individualized, not the same. Personalities are different, etc... you wouldn't end up with a perfect copy of yourself. Especially since gene splitting (natural or otherwise) is a messy business and you end up with unique physical traits on both twins anyways. A clone would be no different... if you'll pardon the pun.
Fluke	posted 12-16-98 08:57 PM ET Jojo: Madonna will be cloned in the future. And by playing Santiago and Miriam out against eachother, kicking Yang's ass, sleeping with Morgan and Deidre, and throwing the entire UoP into mystic Madonna studies, she'll be voted supreme leader of Planet
Imran Siddiqui	posted 12-16-98 09:13 PM ET Hmm, do you think that what these scientist did was ethical? I for one do. I think that with this technology, they'll soon be able to grow parts for people when they need them. Its the first step. Imran Siddiqui
Fluke	posted 12-16-98 09:23 PM ET IIRC there has just been invested 10 billion dollars in growing bodyparts from peoples own DNA/tissue (can't remember which). And I'm considering taking an education that leads to genetisist in a couple of years (or more) so I'm pretty much pro tinkering. Except from making plants resistant to toxins. Nothing good comes from opening up for more pesticides.
Victor Galis	posted 12-16-98 10:38 PM ET Who cares about what research is ethical? Science must go on! We have been delayed enough by conflicts with the church (a few centuries ago) we must have a period of free iquiry.
Q Cubed	posted 12-17-98 12:07 AM ET Ethics and science must go hand in hand. Cloning human body parts, i have to say is a good idea, allowing people to live by creating many more organs to be availible for transplants...however, with this technology, it is not inconcievable that some maniac may be able to clone hundreds of "super" humans with "beneficial" attributes and twist them a la Napoleon in Animal Farm... Furthermore, one must be cautious with this technology...i can also see the point in time when so-called "Christians" who bomb abortion clinics begin to bomb the clone research facilities. As for those bombers, do they even realize what they're doing is murder and condemns them to their Hell according to their own Ten Commandments? Bombing abortion clinics and bashing medical research facilities where defenseless people are who don't fight back is no jihad or crusade. But, i digress. Unfortunately, the mere prospect of the cloning humans raises the specter of not only a Eugenics Wars where genetically alter people are cloned for a maniac's lust for power, but of a religious backlash from fanatics such as the "Lord's Believers". Religion and Science would make a great partnership if they wouldn't contradict each other in minor things that can get blown out of proportion, y'know? I hope Thomas Aquinas's spirit helps us now. Final Note: T'aehan Minguk, uri nara mansei! Korea, May our Nation stand forever. 1001100110001
Gord McLeod	posted 12-17-98 05:10 AM ET My problem with the idea of cloning human body parts stems directly from the source of those parts. Are we talking about cloning a duplicate of the person for the purpose of then harvesting the clone for parts? Or are we speaking of cloning specific parts independently? If the former, I STRONGLY disagree, for the reasons I outlined above - that would be akin to harvesting one's twin sibling, as the clone would potentially be a very different individual than the donor/source. If however we're talking about cloning parts only, then yes, I think it's a very good idea.
BoomBoom	posted 12-17-98 07:14 AM ET Well it is probably the latter. Unless you call a clump of cells (about 256) your sibling. All the cells are still undifferentiated and therefore I wouldn't call them alive. It would basically be a basis for a cell culture using the right factors and conditions.