posted 12-14-98 05:36 PM ET        

Now remember you don't get any points for saying things like-"Well, Americans treat me like an uneducated, immoral.....etc.

I am talking about me here. I have not done those things...can't you judge a person by their own merits.

I concede to you all-that there are some Americans that are not very nice. But I must insist that the rest of us are nice-and We are not stupid.

posted 12-14-98 05:52 PM ET            

"Hello, we're from Canada. As part of the milleniuum celebrations we've decided to join North America. Would you like to send a congratulatory message to the Canadians?"

This was followed by people saying "Congratulations Canada on joining North America!"

They also were asking for donations to help rebuild Canada's "national igloo" which they said was the Canadian equivalent of the White House. The host from the show said that El Nino had melted parts of the igloo and so our government couldn't run effectively (not enough office space) and we needed to repair it. People actually acted like they believed him!

I know that there are many smart, intelligent Americans (a few even post here ), but there are also a lot of ignorant, isolationist ones. Or, if there aren't now, there were enough at one time to start a stereotype that has continued to this day.

posted 12-14-98 05:53 PM ET            

Anyway, I think most foreigners tend to hate us because of chatrooms, & forums where stupid 10 year old Americans start saying America rocks, & all other countries suck. When foreigners try to retaliate intelligently, or most often, in flames, the 10 year olds say stupid things like, "We got the nukes, & we'll nuke your ass!". They don't seem to understand that if we nuked anybody right now, he'd be dead as well. He also doesn't seem to understand that we are ALLIED with these foreign countries, & we would almost never nuke them.

Some Americans are stupid, uninformed, etc. But that's common in all countries, most people I know tend to be rather educated, & not as ignorant as most make us out to be. Some people are ignorant though, & I hate it! Especially when the most ignorant person is a teacher! My 8th grade teacher said we fought the British in skirmish mode in every battle of the revolution, & knocked them down like bowling pins. I wanted to strangle him! We fought them like everyone fought then, in line formation, delivering the concentrated fire needed with the inaccurate smoothbores of the time. Skirmishing on an open field would most likely have failed!

Enough for now, any flames will be ignored.

posted 12-14-98 05:54 PM ET            

What kind of presumptious moron are you to come in here and assume that we're going to label you as ignorant just because you're an American! By presuming that we would pre-judge you, you've pre-judged us making you guilty of the charges you brought against us. Talk about a hypocrit! You just go and assume that because we aren't Americans, we can't see how great your nation is. Geesh...

posted 12-14-98 06:10 PM ET            

-----------------------------
2 Hours Later

"Yes, another Drive By Posting has occured at the corner of Sid and Brian. Investigators are looking into it. The pattern of the bullets seems to say NIM."

posted 12-14-98 06:11 PM ET            

Yes, it might be staged. But one guy was was so convincingly skeptical tht he must have half-believed what they were asking.

posted 12-15-98 05:08 AM ET            

examples of US ignorance:

1. A gospel choir on tour in Austria in the late 80ies proudly announced that it was a special pleasure for them to perform in a _communist_ country.

2. Though it is a real stereotype, this really happens: confusing Austria and Australia. We have T-shirts here with "Austria" and a "no canguroos" sign...

3. Told to me last week by an economist from Argentina who lives in the US: Most americans he meets believe they speak _spanish_ in Brasil.

4. Same source: a cab driver said to him that america is so different from Argentina as the US is not ruled by _Ayatollahs_!

5. A friend of mine who spent a year in the US came back with the nice story that her landlady, a very nice woman, explained to her what a refrigerator is and how to use it - obviously, europeans do not know such items of luxury.

posted 12-15-98 11:34 AM ET            

Anyway-here are some things that I have heard over the years from Non Americans visiting our quaint little country.

Do you still fight Indians over there (refering to the western US)

While living in New York about ten years ago I met a man from Sweden who wanted to know were I was from- when I told him he had this horrified look on his face- When I asked what was wrong-he asked me not pull out my gun and shoot him. You see he was under the impression that people from the "wild west" still carried six shooters on their hips and shot up the town every night!

When in Germany a couple of years ago I was having a beer with a freind of mine (who was from, at the time West Berlin) and a buddy of his dropped by our table - when he asked me where I was from I told him Washington. at first he thought I was from DC then when I explained it was on the west coast. He said oh yes he knew california very well.

Another incident happened to me in England while I was on holiday, I met a guy in a pub who asked me where I was from and when I explained Washington state to him so he wouldn't confuse DC with my state. I told him it was west of Idaho. He was very curious if, since I lived near that state did I live in a trailer and hate black people too.

So, as you can see there are many misinformed people thoughout the world these are just anicdotal stories but I have seen many people in other counrties who think we Americans live the same lives they see on the Telly.

posted 12-15-98 11:43 PM ET            

Buffalo Bill(William Frederick Cody) screwed us over by touring Europe. Ever since, its been a general misconception of a good deal of Europeans that Americans are all gun toting maniacs. There'd probably be no confusion about this if he hadn't taken his damned Wild West show on tour in Europe.

posted 12-16-98 12:13 AM ET            

There are stories every year about high school seniors from here who apply to out-of-state schools only to be told that foreign nationals have to fill out additional forms. I could go on, but you get the picture.

So are Americans stupid, predjudiced and ignorant? Probably no more so than anyone else. But the next time you want a laugh, ask a friend which state is between Arizona and Texas. :-)

posted 12-16-98 12:09 PM ET            

I recall one of my co-workers telling a story about some family from Germany coming over for a visit. The drive from Pearson (Toronto's airport) to her home was 45 minutes. Her family couldn't believe that there wasn't a closer airport. When she said that her morning commute was a 1 hour drive (from her home to downtown Toronto) they were in complete disbelief! Of course, for anyone living here, those times are considered "not bad".

posted 12-16-98 03:48 PM ET            

And a quote:
I know that I am a very well educated critical thinker, I don't hate any race, I have no hidden agenda, I have a good handle on history from sources outside the US as well as US sources. I am technical, I am artistic.

Gee, I think I'm a genius also. Guess that makes me one.

Didn't want to do that, but my momma always told me, "Blatant is as blatant does."

posted 12-16-98 04:26 PM ET            

And you're right, not just the smart ones, either, or even just the ones who want to be there. Everyone goes, and gets educated to the level of the lowest common denominator. And not just in your basic classes but the advanced ones, too.

An interesting case arose a few weeks ago, a friend called up and we had an extensive talk about whether or not her niece could get into Texas A&M. I don't know Texas A&M standards, but she alleged that the niece was very intelligent. Apparently, the girl is taking calculus in high school. This is a pretty good sign. She allegedly makes all A's and B's and is on the honor roll consistently. On the SAT, however, she scored a 950, which puts her at slightly lower than the average student should be.

I'm guessing Texas A&M would admit her, but the point is why do we have so many students getting A's and B's and honors who can't even score above the median on a standardized test?

The counterargument, which will be heard, is that "some people just aren't good test-takers." If so, how do such people rise to take calculus in high school? Wouldn't you have thought that by now her inability to take tests, misunderstood or not, would have restricted her to lower math classes?

So much of the American culture centers around stroking egos. It's much easier to play along than to face angry students and angry parents for giving a low grade to someone who deserves it. In the end, society loses because inept people are knowingly promoted beyond their competence. A student who fails will typically consider complaining to teachers and parents prior to studying harder. Some students go as far as acquiring firearms to show their intellect.

As for Bush and Texas education, I would have to say that the most disturbing part of Texas' educational paradigm is the intense focus on the TAAS test to the exclusion of real education. Time is spent teaching a test rather than the material from which the test is based. This is distressing, because it pigeonholes education. Rather then being an open exploration to reach an obective, it becomes a single-track journey.

As for Saddam crapping his pants-- it would be nice, but it would be nicer to find out the truth about his nuclear, biological, and chemical munitions and plants to produce them. Not that Clinton couldn't be more forceful.

posted 12-17-98 04:21 PM ET            

Anyway, just in case anyone else was worried about the Education level of students in the US, you needn't worry to much. Many factors are involved in the generation of these numbers. Unfortunatly, many people only hear one statistic because this is the only number diseminated to the masses. What you need to filter out is the need by the media to generate controversy in order to sell soap. If you think about it logically you can work through the "statistics"
Imran has covered alot of the discrepancy here-there is another factor. I the has the highest population of foreign speaking people going to those schools as well. If you are working though a language barrier it is easy to understand how the average could drop. I thing Samual Clemins said it best
"There are lies, damn lies and then there are statistics."

As for being a genius Mr. Jojo - as a matter of fact yes I am. Thank you very much.

posted 12-17-98 07:18 PM ET            

I think the real problem with the American school system can be traced to the first few years of school. After all, our most formative years are 0 to 7. Why not take advantage of that by beginning instruction in a second language or elementary algebra at an early age? Instead the system wastes its early opportunities and waits until students' high school years to try to teach us a second language from scratch. The little bit of teaching we do get is another part of the problem (at least at my school). A typical Spanish class last year went like this: 1. Students file in. 2. Teacher reads a list of Spanish words out to us and we repeat. 3. She tells us to study the words out of the book. 4. She assigns us some written work out of the book. Basically, the book asks us a simple question in Spanish and we write an equally inane response. 5. Teacher tells us to quietly study for the remainder of the period.

posted 12-21-98 02:09 PM ET            

"Hey, I'm just here to help"

posted 12-21-98 03:41 PM ET            

You guys are bickering with each other over personal idiosyncracies and you are wondering why there isn't more of a "global community?" I believe your own discussion (or lack thereof) evidenced here is a prime example of why we humans simply don't get along in big groups very well. Add in differences in religion, language, and tradition, and you've got a recipe for a mix that will never be homogenous.

I feel somewhat happier that your individual social responsibilites will be evidenced more in your playing of SMAC rather than exerted upon the world. Intelligence does not naturally infer wisdom, and wisdom does not naturally infer prudence. You conversation thus far infers none of the above.

posted 12-21-98 03:58 PM ET            

"The subject is interpolated into an expressionism that includes reality as a paradox." (Paul Z. F. Huges)

Roland,
reality depends on your point of view.

"Huh ?"

posted 12-22-98 02:38 PM ET            

As a final riposte, It's "MOOT point" moron.