posted 12-13-98 05:47 PM ET            

Why do I even bother? Is the Earth round?? Were the Ancient Greeks smarter than we thought?? Did aliens build the pyramids?? Did the Romans really want to be Christian?? Has Christianity done more bad for humanity, than good??? Do these question annoy you?? Should I shutup??

posted 12-13-98 09:18 PM ET            

Mike Harris Really Sucks

posted 12-13-98 09:23 PM ET            

to answer your other questions yyyh

earth is more ovilish round
hell yeh they were
don't think so thegreeks did
no one wants to be christian
they're the satins (if i may) of earth
yes, yes they do
yes, yes you sould

posted 12-13-98 10:29 PM ET            

In other words, The Simpsons was funny today!

posted 12-13-98 11:43 PM ET            

English cricketers suck.

posted 12-14-98 05:30 AM ET            

BTW, Poul Nyrop Rasmussen suck too!

posted 12-14-98 11:50 AM ET            

He has done some things that needed to be done, but he knew they were going to be unpopular so he figured that he'd only have one term in office. Thus, he's made a LOT of sweeping reforms in a very short period of time. This has resulted in much confusion and generally turned things topsy-turvy.

(The way things work in Canada is that we have a democracy every 4 years or so when an election is called and a dictatorship softened only by public opinion in between. Mike Harris seems to have realized that he can ignore public opinion in the first three years, softening up int he fourth and gambling that people have short memories.)

To summarize things for you Yanks: We had many years of basically left-wing Democrats and then finally voted in a right-wing Republican. The Republican figures he'll be voted out at the next election so he's implementing every policy he can think of in a four year period.

posted 12-14-98 02:19 PM ET            

The previous government was the NDP (New Democratic Party - mainstream socialists that are very "pro" union). Towards the end of their term they were faced with massively increasing deficits. They had a choice: lay off governemt workers (which includes teachers, doctors, nurses as well as the usual beaurocrats) or cut pay. Because of collective bargaining agreements, they couldn't cut pay.
So, the NDP brought in their "social contract" legislation which basically gave all government employees some forced extra vacation-with-no-pay days. This got them their across-the-board pay cut without breaking any agreements. It also let everyone keep their jobs. A win-win situation, right? Wrong!

The unions that voted in the NDP government were rather miffed that they got "cheated" out wages. They were so annoyed that they all voted for Mike Harris just to show the NDP that "if you screw with the unions, we'll screw with you".

Of course, what the unions forgot was that the PC's are kind of anti-union. They said "screw this social contract stuff" and laid off a ton of public employees. Then they brought in some legislation that effectively cuts the powers of many of the unions in the province. (Next election, look for the unions to vote in the Librels, if only because that party hasn't pissed them off in recent memory.)

Getting back to the original point ofthe thread; this is another reason why some people hate Mike Harris. If you're a unionized teacher, he hasn't done you any favours. On the other hand, if you are a non-union private sector worker, he's cut your taxes so you have nothing to complain about (except the quality of education if you have kids).

University students hate him because he's lifted rent controls (which hurts anyone living out of town and off-res) as well as limiting the amount of tuition that the province covers (which means students are paying more). When I was in university 10 years ago tuition was about $1300/yr. Nowadays it's up around $3000/yr if I'm not mistaken. (Undergrad averages, there is some variability depending on program.)

posted 12-14-98 05:19 PM ET            

Dead Japanese children on schoolbuses suck!

Thank you for reading this. Not like you guys actually read my posts anymore...

posted 12-14-98 05:36 PM ET            

I just have this to say:

Mike Harris Sucks
Thank You For Reading This =)

posted 12-14-98 05:39 PM ET            

Probably Mike. Lucien isn't really hated. More "thought to be the world's largest megalomaniac". At least the election results will keep him in check.

Personally, I think that Harris actually has a good chance of getting re-elected, albiet with a much smaller majority. Why? Because nobody knows who the competition is! I mean Dalton Mcginty (how do you spell his last name?) isn't exactly a household name and the other guy...who is it?
Problem for the Liberals and NDP is that they don't have any better alternatives to what the PC are doing right now. They whine about it, but they haven't come out and said how they'd do things any differently.

posted 12-14-98 06:33 PM ET            

Obviously he'd very much like to get re-elected and I doubt he conciously said "I know this stuff will piss them off soI better not count on getting re-elected", but that's the way he seems to be thinking sometimes.

Of course, it isn't like he was truly original. Anyone from Alberta could tell you that he just mirrored what Ralph Klien did. (I think that's the premier I'm thinking of.)

It's kind of funny though... Most democracies aren't really. Or at best, they are only once in a while. It is VERY VERY rare for people to vote against the party. At least up here. The only way to have a true democracy would be to do away with parties and just have everyone vote according to the will of their constiuents on every issue. But that kind of makes for a mess when it comes to foreign policy and stuff, I mean, who would make it if there were no parties? So around here we just live in a party-driven dictatorship with the occasional chance to legally and peacefully remove a dictator that we don't agree with.

posted 12-14-98 07:13 PM ET            

*rant mode on*

The present Ontario government is nothing if not egalitarian. Not content with offending the teachers, the poor, the sick, the unions and the entire female sex, this government has found a way to alienate the humble medical student. It is called "tuition deregulation," which means that those intrepid truth-seeking counting-houses known as universities may soon be able to charge whatever the traffic will bear, for the privilege of studying with them. It will soon cost more than $50,000 in tuition (plus the other costs of staying alive) for a medical student to become a doctor. Any decent person would rebel against such an outrage in Ontario.

However, not being a decent person, I have decided to support deregulation with the following arguments, all of which, of course, self-evident.
First, tuition deregulation must be seen as part of the overall strategy of intimidating and harassing the medical profession from the earliest possible moment. As well, it complements the equally honest determination by the universities that medical residents and interns are students, and must pay tuition. Of course, these universities don't have any other students who insist on working 105 hours a week, but let that pass.
Second, with the future doctor soon graduating in debt of at least $125,000, the government will have a legally defensible way of discouraging young doctors from flying south permanently, as other aspects of the failing Ontario health system become too much to bear. The concept of indentured servitude has a bad reputation, of course, but most of this is due to propaganda. Fee schedules can easily be arranged such that it is impossible to pay off more than $10,000 a year, ensuring 12 1/2 years of freely-offered service to the state.
Third is the defence of necessity. The salaries of hospital CEOs and university administrators are rising at the same rate as the growth rate of E. coli in a Mexican petri dish. Somebody has to pay for the comforts of the no longer productive. And not only are salaries rising, but the number of non-performing liabilities is rising as well, not to mention the complexity of reporting relationships. Why, one university even had to hire a special team of draftsmen just to copy the organisation chart.

But let us cast aside crass financial considerations and look at the "human" advantages of tuition deregulation. After all, wouldn't you want your own physician to be the scion of a wealthy family, rather than the offspring of some common or even (forgive me for saying it) poor family? After all, studies have shown that poverty is caused by immorality and sluggishness. What kind of doctor do you want looking after you? Nor should tuition deregulation be seen as an absolute barrier to education for the less affluent. A few scholarships are still available, even if most of them are for business students. For the impoverished student, the sale of body parts is worthy of consideration. For instance, some critics of medicine claim that you don't really have to have a brain to be a doctor.

After all, what better way to teach fledgling medical students that hypocrisy, not Hippocrates, is the true guiding spirit in Ontario medicine today?

*rant mode off*

posted 12-14-98 07:16 PM ET            

As for all the people who are doing the Thank you for reading this.

Rock ON.

Now, I have some addiontional comments to make today.

Mike Harris Sucks Ox Dicks
Dave Johnson Sucks Mike's Dick

AS for Imran, how old are you? You're comment of Harris supported troubles me if you're in grade school.

Oh yes, NDP really suck

posted 12-14-98 07:45 PM ET            

The small Yimotian troop transport silently glided over the sparkling waters of Lake Ontario. It was a cramped model indeed, used mainly for reconnaissance drops and commando raids. There were five Y-bots in the rear hold of the shuttle. Their mission was simple; infiltrate the Canadian city of Toronto, locate the government headquarters for the region, and convince their leader to cease resistance and hand over his territory to Yimot. If the leader refused, the Y-bots were to terminate him with extreme prejudice. Their mission would also serve to determine the defenses of Toronto, evaluating them in preparation for the full-scale assault which was already in the planning stages.
With its cloaking device turned on, the shuttle produced no shadow as it flew across Harbourfront and while it darted between the massive skyscrapers of the downtown core. As it progressed over the traffic of University Avenue, its target came into view. Queen's Park, the site of the government of Ontario and the headquarters of Mike the Knife. The shuttle landed behind the cover of trees on the lawn, allowing the Y-bots to exit undetected, then lifted off and waited for the commando force to return.
Safely insulated inside his secret command bunker deep within Queen's Park, Mike the Knife was working on the next provincial budget. In order to quickly complete this task, he had brought out the infamous Wheel of Spending. Similar to the Wheel on "Wheel of Fortune", it featured a bunch of numbered slices, ranging from $500,000 to $750 million. Above each of those figures was a department or social service, such as Education, Transportation, Medicare, Hospitals, Unemployment Insurance, and just about every other program in existence that was paid for by the government.
"Come on, big money! Big money!" Mike the Knife said as he spun the wheel, clapping. The wheel spun around and around, finally landing on "Education: -$75 million". Touching a button on his desk intercom, he said, "Johnson, this is Mike the Knife. Education Minister Johnson, come in."
"This is Education Minister Johnson. Go ahead, Mike the Knife."
"Umm, yes. I've just finished part of the budget, and we're cutting $75 million from the education budget. You have to find somewhere to cut it from."
"But sir, we've already cut millions from the system! We've been forced to use textbooks that were written in 1947, the cafeterias are already down to raccoon parts and recycled newspaper, and our maps still show the Dutch colony of New Amsterdam! I just don't think we can cut any more from the schools."
"That doesn't sound like a very positive attitude, Mr. Johnson. Have you already forgotten what happened to our dear friend Mr. Snobolen when he refused to cut any more from the budget?"
Mike the Knife almost thought he heard Johnson sweating on the other end of the line. "Uhh, no sir! I'll get right on cutting that budget!"
"Thank you, Education Minister. And do see that the guy in charge of the CRTC gets his wish to cut all American programming from the CBC, would you?"
"Will do, sir. And--sir, did you let the hounds out in the halls again?"
"No, I don't think so. Why?"
"Well, I just for a second thought I heard something and--" The sound which came over the intercom sounded suspiciously like the Education Minister being cleanly decapitated by a monomolecular blade.
"Mr. Johnson?" Mike the Knife said. "Mr. Johnson! Are you there?"
Suddenly a new voice spoke. "No, Mike the Knife. He is not there."
Mike the Knife whirled around and saw four Y-bots standing in the doorway to his bunker. The monomolecular blades of one of them were stained red with, Mike the Knife supposed, the blood of his former Education Minister.
"Who are you? And how did you get past my security?"
"Your security?" the Y-bot asked, in Revanant's voice. "Ah, yes. The non-existent security. You cut their budgets four months ago, remember? There was no security."
"Oh. Dammit," Mike the Knife muttered.
"And as for who I am, what you see before you is a brutal fighting machine known as a Y-bot. However, the voice who is speaking to you belongs to me, Revanant, and I am currently sitting in front of a computer in Irvine, California. Now, these Y-bots are under my direct control. If you choose to do what I am about to tell you to do, these Y-bots will leave you alone in peace and security. If, however, you do not abide by my wishes, the results will be, shall we say...unfortunate. In fact, I believe that a demonstration is in order."
Upon receiving its orders from Revanant via his modified Starcraft command thingee, the fifth Y-bot pushed a figure into the room. It was a bound, and gagged, Jacques Parizeau.
"Maybe you recognize this man," Revanant said through the Y-bot. "If for some reason you are not, let me bring you up to date. This is Jacques Parizeau, former head of the the Bloc Quebecois and your own counterpart in Quebec's government. He masterminded the referendum from a couple of years ago, but resigned when news came out that he had lost."
"I know who Jacques Parizeau is," sneered Mike the Knife. "But what, if any, point are you trying to prove?"
"Only this," replied Revanant. "Y-bots, attack!"
While the Y-bot speaking as Revanant stood back and watched, the remaining for proceeded to disembowel Parizeau until he was nothing more than a bloody smear on the carpet.
"That, Mr. Premier, is what will happen if you do not give us what we want."
"And what exactly is it that you want, then?"
"Oh, nothing much," said Revanant. "We only demand that you cease your infernal resistance actions and submit you and your country to the Yimotian Empire."
"I'm quite sorry, but as premier of Ontario, that's out of my jurisdiction. I can, however, hire myself out to you to cut your spending on education and health care."
"Arrg," Revanant said. "Y-bots, kill this fool."
As the Y-bots descended upon Mike the Knife and tore him to pieces, the knowledge that he was dead somehow came to every single Ontarian, no matter where they were or what they were doing. And for years afterwards, every Ontarian remembered exactly what they were doing when Mike the Knife had been killed.
And there was much rejoicing.

Fjorxc the Maniac(CWAL Hunt Valley)
May the Fjorxc be with you and a happy new year.

posted 12-14-98 08:31 PM ET            

Mike Harris Sucks
Dave Johnson Sucks

posted 12-14-98 09:22 PM ET            

CrackGenius
"When goods don't cross borders, soldiers will."
"The state is the great fictitious entity by which everyone seeks to live at the expense of everyone else."
Fredric Bastiat, early French economist

posted 12-15-98 12:38 AM ET            

Republicans suck
Democrats suck
Conservatism does not suck
Extreme liberalism does suck
enviromentalism does not suck
capitalism does not suck
privitization does not suck
spoiled people that live in socialist nations suck
Nixon sucked
Reagean sucked
Bush Sucked
Clinton morally sucks
Clinton politically does not suck
the media for the most part sucks
the gaming industry does not suck
smac does not suck
NIM that is Nim does not suck
NIM that is not NIM does not suck
suck=suck=suck
so if suck=suck
and suck=suck
one can say that suck=suck
the fact that I'm done does not suck

posted 12-15-98 01:26 AM ET            

Maya: Wow. Sounds like Mike Harris better not get sick in the next 4 years.
(C/o New Zealand medical association during similar reforms in 1991. Which, by the way, aren't working yet (1998). I have a horrible feeling we may have contributed to this in some small way...)

posted 12-15-98 01:51 AM ET            

My (much younger) sister is now at Ryerson so I have a feeling Mikey's deregulation could hurt her, which would be rather too bad.

Living in Toronto, I can assure you that I am not at all pleased with the growing number of homeless people. Don't know how bad it is in Montreal, but in TO it's getting rather out of hand.

There are far more reasons to be displeased with Mike Harris than there are to like him. However, I still think the next election will be a close one. Personally, I'd hope for a minority government. It might not last long, but at least it would give all the politicians a good scare.

Like Communism, some of Mike's ideas are good, but the implementation has truly sucked.

posted 12-15-98 02:34 AM ET            

Wait and update to DHE's list
Reagan does not suck
Bush does not suck
Clinton politically and morally sucks

That is all, until next time that is....

Imran Siddiqui
Definetely Does not Suck

posted 12-15-98 02:49 AM ET            

He is imitating Ralph, who is even more dangerous. I mean, the man has publicly admited that his earliest and most damaging cuts were chosen more or less randomly. Picture a fat drunk wildly swinging a large axe in a room full of the poor, elderly, and sick, with all the rich people standing well back, out of harms way, and you get an idea of what he's been doing the last few years. Of course, he has to stay in power. With the province full of filthy rich oil barons and uneducated hick farmers who don't know any better, the only other party that has a hope in hell here is Reform, and god knows we don't want that horror story to happen.

I love sarcastic humour. Thanks Maya.

That's not what Democracy is. Democracy is making decisions based on what the masses want. Ask around, most people don't want economic and political policies that give the rich more money and power than they already have. Sure, the rich do, but they're not the majority by any means, now are they?
North American "democracy" consists of catering to the whims of the rich, lying to the masses, and throwing them a few bones that don't actually cut into the profits of the big corporations to convince them that the people in power really care about them.

Imran, I gotta know: Who is paying for your education?

BTW, your right, Regan doesn't suck. After all, you really need a much harsher term for someone who destroys personal freedom, cloaks federal government in secrecy, sinks a nation so far into debt to counter a military build up that never existed that it can no longer even try to do anything other than make the rich richer without collapsing the economy when everyone sells off their bonds because social programs and infrastructure aren't profitable, and wages several wars against democracy in sovereign nations while persecuting anyone who speaks out against his policies.

As for Bush, well, he's lied about something a hell of a lot more important than his sex life.

posted 12-15-98 06:32 AM ET            

MIKE HARRIS SUCKS!!! Just another populist moron.

Zan, the thing about the military is really interesting. Last week I heard a lecture by embassador Kornblum (US emb. to germany) and he mentioned that the US is worried about western europe's defense capability. This is very interesting as western european nations still spend about 150 billion $ on defense per year (US: 280 billion or so) and have about 2 million soldiers, with no serious military threat anywhere in sight. Did he try to give europeans a bit of the good ol' US paranoia ?

posted 12-15-98 12:32 PM ET            

It's a form of controlling the poor. Since the rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer, the rich are worried that the poor will turn into criminals. So, they put them in the army where they can keep their eye on them and when the population of poor starts getting too high, they create a conflict and send a bunch of their soldiers off for population control. The only problem being that the US hasn't been able to find enough wars lately. As a result, they've got over-populated jails.

posted 12-15-98 01:34 PM ET            

I do think that Harris has taken some things too far and hasn't given enough thought to everything, but at the same time, some of the public backlash has been nothing more than very strong PR tactics by various unions (and the union leaders, who have their own agendas).

posted 12-15-98 05:10 PM ET            

(Then I remember that it's because the US is so full of Americans!)

posted 12-15-98 06:58 PM ET            

Thank You For Reading This

posted 12-16-98 04:26 PM ET            

Imran Siddiqui

posted 12-16-98 05:53 PM ET            

As for folks complaining about using atlases from the mid-80's-- quit your whining already! It's not like any borders have changed or anything! God, get over it!

Didn't Reagan try to switch governments on Nicaragua but couldn't because there wasn't any popular support? Isn't that illegal or something?

posted 12-16-98 06:00 PM ET            

Mike Harris Sucks

posted 12-16-98 11:55 PM ET            

Ack! Choke! Cough!

No wonder Americans have such a reputation for sucking when it comes to geography and world affairs.
Hate to break it to ya, but in the last 15 years a good chunk of Europe and Africa (Asia too if you count the breakup of the USSR) have had their borders redrawn. If not the actual borders, at least the names of the countries.

posted 12-17-98 01:16 PM ET            

Zan - Kurn was referring to our ex-Solicitor General who was overheard on an airplane as saying "Don't worry, Hughie will take the fall". Hughie was the RCMP officer in charge during the pepper-spray incident. Basically, the opposition made it sound like Scott (the SG) had rigged the whole inquest. Check out www.22online.com for a satirical look at the whole thing.

Jimbo - I disagree with the whole booing at SkyDome thing. You may not realize it, but the teachers are mostly all brainwashed zombies that eat the crap their union leaders feed them. You really should take what they tell you with a huge grain of salt. Yes, Harris has done some "bad things" to the education system. But, it also did need to be changed. Sure, booing somebody in SkyDome is fun (unless you're Robbie Alomar), but you shouldn't be patting yourself on the back for it. The teacher's union bosses have agendas even bigger than Harris'. When you're older and can take an objective view of the situation, you'll see that the teachers aren't exactly flawless.

posted 12-17-98 06:36 PM ET            

Now back to childish, inane comments.

posted 12-17-98 09:41 PM ET            

Now back to basic human instincts, teachers are going to protest, because they haven't gotten a pay raise in 7 years and because people will always try to get what they want. Even though inflation has increased and the teachers at my school are holding extra-cirriculur activities without pay. You heard me right, my teachers are holding clubs and sports teams without pay. I pretty much think that's noble. Then, as for the new cirriculum, I know it will be better in the long run, but you do not know what havoc it wreacked at Ontario schools. The government gave teachers a BUGGY report card program and a HUGE cirriculum to cover without any types of additional funding for the neccessities of the cirriculum. And I know for a fact that many teachers stay up until 11:00pm marking papers, because they have to, because of the cirriculum. Not to mention the fact that I'm in the gifted class, meaning that my teacher has to teach 4 seperate courses to 2 classes. As for Harris's so called smaller class sizes, what a bunch of BS. He's firing thousands of teachers and expecting class size to get smaller????? Can anyone tell me the mathematics to that??? EX. 3 teachers for 90 kids, Harris fires 1, leaving 2 teachers for 90 kids. Does my math suck, or does the class size get larger? Then, to prove that some teachers are noble, my teacher bought 10 new atlas's for about $200 from her own money, because there wasn't enough funding and these new atlas's were needed to complete assignments, since 1980 atlas's would give old info.

AS for adaption, my teachers never complain, it's me and my class mates that do it. And by golly, booing HArris at the Sky Dome let me express my anger.

Now, back to inane comments.

posted 12-18-98 02:06 PM ET            

Have you asked yourself WHY Mike Harris thought he needed to make these cuts? WHY would he bring in one unpopular bill after another? Let's see, could it be that he has decided to purposefully make a run at being more hated than Mulroney? Or maybe, just maybe, it has something to do with the fact that the years and years of previous socialst governments spent the province down the river and almost bankrupted it?

Nah... couldn't be that.

Bob Rae had a choice at the end of his term. He could lay off a bunch of teachers to save money (and yes, that would have raised class sizes) OR he could share the hurt, bring in the social contract and force everyone to take unpaid vacation days.

The unions didn't want him to do either! They wanted him to just borrow and spend, borrow and spend. Well, guess what? He'd already done the "borrow and spend" thing too many times. Harris is basically just fixing the major screw-up that previous governments left us with.

I'm not saying that Harris has made the right changes all the time. But drastic changes were necessary. Class sizes didn't just jump overnight. They've been creeping up and creeping up over time. Teachers were getting laid off before Mike ever took office.

It's like a kid who keeps taking cookies and slowly but surely gets fatter and fatter. Then he gets a new babysitter and the new babysitter really puts the foot done. Instead of just saying "no more cookies" she says "I'm going to end this AND try to get you back to something decent" so she says "no more cookies, and you're going to run laps, and you're going to lift weights, and you're going to start having vegetables". Obviously there is going to be pain and the kid is going to kick and scream and raise a huge fuss.

I don't expect you to agree with me or even see my point. I just hope in a couple of years when the dust has settled that more good come out of all this than bad. Yes, the kid may have a coronary from all the excercise but with any luck, that won't happen.

Problem is that everyone is so focused on "right now". Nobody bothers to ask "How'd we get here" and everyone is too selfish to ask "Where will this take us or the ones that come after us?". Maybe you're right and we are going to Hell in a handbasket. One thing is for sure, we were going there anyway and we'll never know if another way is better or not if we don't try.

posted 12-18-98 10:06 PM ET            

(If you've ever had to read a whole budget, you'll quickly realise that it becomes a nightmare to sort out the good from the bad. No single person is privy to all that information, and any inquires to ANY individual department will show that the program is "Totally essential to XXXXXXX, and our budget cannot under any circumstances be reduced. In fact, we need another XX million for..." Hence to balance a budget, you need to do a bit of slash and burn, which inevitably kills the "flowers" along with the "weeds".

Giving tax breaks to the rich is at least a start on giving tax breaks to everyone, and in reality it's almost impossible to do the opposite (because the rich people move elsewhere, or hire excellent accountants to make them look like *almost* rich people). And the resulting drop in the governments tax take is fairly minimal - there being so few rich people in the first place. And keeps the rich people happy, which means that their money is more likely to stay put. While it's pretty well known that the so-called 'trickle down' theory is more or less complete bunk, you can't run a successful country without rich people to start things. (A case of 'If the rich CAN'T get richer, how the hell can anybody else expect to?')

On the other hand, little social good comes from this - while a small amount of economic stimulus comes from people spending more, there is a retail "safety net" to prevent money from reaching the very poor. Who suffer as a result of the aforesaid indiscriminate budget process.

posted 12-18-98 11:20 PM ET            

I think we can agree to a truce now, eh? Let this die and get onto playing the demo.