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Author Topic:   How could Planet be Terraformed

BKK the Mentat posted 12-10-98 12:35 AM ET
What meathods could be used to terraform Chiron, specificly removing nitrate from the water and lowering the proportion of atmoshereic nitrogen, also, what drawbacks(besides eventual total destruction of planet)might it cause? Note: I belive that it would be more benificial to bio-form the humans than to transform an entire planet.
Corwin posted 12-10-98 12:55 AM ET
If I remember right, at one point Brian said that terraforming might make the local plants more abundant, increasing the mind worm attack, or create problems for other civs.
take a look at www.beyondac.com for all the info that was picked up from scraps said by the Firaxis staff
CClark posted 12-10-98 12:25 PM ET
Been a while since I had any science classes, but I'm sure there are chemical reactions that could be done to bind nitrogen into some solid form. (They could have one heck of a fertilizer factory!)
If you have doubts that it will be possible to completely make-over the atmosphere of Chiron, just take a look at the hole in our ozone layer. That should be all teh proof you need for large-scale atmospheric manipulation.
Ogmios posted 12-10-98 12:56 PM ET
Of course you wouldn't need to TOTALLY terraform the planet since humans are an adaptable species.(in fact to my knowledge we
adapted to the environment we are living now, with all that pollution and various substances)
Titan posted 12-10-98 04:09 PM ET
CCLark, there is indeed a reaction that can transform nitrogen in a solid form. If you combine it with hydrogen, it will produce solid H25N26. I dont know where they could get enough hydrogne to do it though. Satrs are full of it, but I think it is a bit difficult to approach.
The Canadian 8th faction will however find a way to get the planet as good as possible. I'm sure our tech minister, TOAD, will find how to do it.
Titan posted 12-10-98 04:30 PM ET
I'm sory, I made a an error. I dont think that H25N26, I was thinking about C25H26. but there is certainly a way to get rid of the surplus of nitrogen, and TOAD should still find a way to do it.
Jojo posted 12-10-98 05:49 PM ET
I would suppose, and this is just a WAG, that the tree in SMAC probably includes researching genetics to fit the humans to the planet, and terraforming for the other way around.
I would also imagine that depending on your societal values, researching one or the other would be helped/hindered by your attitudes.
I can see Skye's folks making people who dig lower oxygen and more nitrogen, and Morgan's people just tearing up land, moss, whatever to make the planet fit their bodies.
The intersting thing here is that the transformations are contradictory, i.e., if you adapt your genes to the planetary conditions, then adapting the planet would nullify this research. Makes an interesting case for University of Planet, which would probably like to investigate both.
Perhaps the Firaxis folks figured the planet could be altered some and people could be mutated a little, but not enough to meet each other's needs.....
Like I said, this is totally a WAG, so I just wasted my time writing it, and wasted yoursin reading it....
The One And Only DarkStar posted 12-10-98 06:43 PM ET
OK Titan, now its personnal. Its TOAODS. For that great offense, i will work to terraform ALL Chiron BUT a region of 1 mile radius around your remote residence. I will fill this area with marshes witch will release poisonous mteeallic gases in the air. You cat will die and you will never be able to bury him. Ill burn the ozone layer above this marsh so you NEVER will be able to go. LOL
BKK the Mentat posted 12-10-98 08:09 PM ET
Prloblems with planet:
High atmoshereic pressure
High nitrogen content
Thin O3 layer
Water supply contains dissolved NO3+ ions
Reversed ocean currents
Extremly lage temperate zone
*oceans probobly dominate only 50-65% of planetary surface
Scarcity of carbon
Solutions:
Reducing nitrogen in atmoshere to limestone or soda nitrates.
Effect: lowers pressure from 1.72B to ~1.5B
Electricly charged curtains high in the atmoshere could manufacture O3.Weather modification resulting in more lightning strikes could achive the same effect.
Reversing ocean currents: use of magnetic generator cloud,Weather modification.
Long term problems cuased by terraforming:
****Extreme climatic change could devastate the planet's natural cooling cycles.Iradiation of Chiron is 1.23Earth by comparison, Venus stated out at only 1.1E and look what happened,by damaging this delecte balance, you could inadvertantly destroy the planet. Withen 500000 years the oceans would begin to evaporate, and once the proportion of water vapor reaches >20%
it will act as a greenhouse gas,tempratures will soar to 325+F and the planet will be set on a course to become a venus twin.
Not exacly your perfect unspioled paridise anymore Deidre!
BKK the Mentat posted 12-10-98 08:13 PM ET
Oh yeah, the solution to the carbon problem could be to strip mine Eutryon's surface and deliver carbon to Chiron.
Brother Greg posted 12-10-98 08:59 PM ET
I know they mentioned somewhere boring hige holes into the mantle, though I can't remember the exact reasoning behind this. It would obviously heat the atmosphere, but I can't remember what that was supposed to do, other than melting significant portions of the icecap, and raising the levels of the sea.
Woo Hoo, wipe out enemy coastal cities in one fell swoop. Yay! i'm sure there would be some way to protect against this too.
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey posted 12-10-98 09:09 PM ET
BG,
The Boreholes are dug to release geothermal energy. Energy is currency, remember? There's also the mining oppurtunites you get from digging it. I guess it could be used to melt icecaps. I personally would never vote YEA for ice cap melting, unless I was just goofing around.
Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general,
YYYH
osric posted 12-11-98 01:48 AM ET
There are nitrogen fixing legumes (sp? beans?) that transport N2 from air to soil (in appropriate forms). Could we do the same with modified air-borne algee?
There once was talk about doing such with Venus, but doubt we could change the rotational period enough to keep from boiling off the good stuff.
BKK the Mentat posted 12-11-98 10:17 PM ET
Did anybody catch that drift about planey\t being destroyed by terraforming it???????????
Corwin posted 12-13-98 02:36 PM ET
Humans never cared about their planet, why should they start now. We are polluting Earth, so why not terraform Chiron? Polluting earth might kill either it or all life, while terraforming Chiron might not do anything, or might make it unhospitable to humans, but then we can move on. 500,000 years is more then enough for human civilization to change it's ways.
Fluke posted 12-14-98 11:29 PM ET
Nitrogen in the air is not a problem.
On Earth the content is 80%. NO3 in the water is a bigger problem but that would be solved by filters.
The biggest problem is CO2. With Chiron only having half as much as Earth no plants would be able to grow in the free air and we can't just dome the entire planet for food. CO2 content would rise as more fossile fuels were burned but it's probably not enough. You could build giant factories to process basalt and ekstract carbon. Anyway it would just make the temp rise until we were fried so I don't know how good an idea it is.
And there is something else wrong with Chiron's atmosphere, I can't remember what.
Maybe it was air pressure...
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Author	Topic: How could Planet be Terraformed
BKK the Mentat	posted 12-10-98 12:35 AM ET What meathods could be used to terraform Chiron, specificly removing nitrate from the water and lowering the proportion of atmoshereic nitrogen, also, what drawbacks(besides eventual total destruction of planet)might it cause? Note: I belive that it would be more benificial to bio-form the humans than to transform an entire planet.
Corwin	posted 12-10-98 12:55 AM ET If I remember right, at one point Brian said that terraforming might make the local plants more abundant, increasing the mind worm attack, or create problems for other civs. take a look at www.beyondac.com for all the info that was picked up from scraps said by the Firaxis staff
CClark	posted 12-10-98 12:25 PM ET Been a while since I had any science classes, but I'm sure there are chemical reactions that could be done to bind nitrogen into some solid form. (They could have one heck of a fertilizer factory!) If you have doubts that it will be possible to completely make-over the atmosphere of Chiron, just take a look at the hole in our ozone layer. That should be all teh proof you need for large-scale atmospheric manipulation.
Ogmios	posted 12-10-98 12:56 PM ET Of course you wouldn't need to TOTALLY terraform the planet since humans are an adaptable species.(in fact to my knowledge we adapted to the environment we are living now, with all that pollution and various substances)
Titan	posted 12-10-98 04:09 PM ET CCLark, there is indeed a reaction that can transform nitrogen in a solid form. If you combine it with hydrogen, it will produce solid H25N26. I dont know where they could get enough hydrogne to do it though. Satrs are full of it, but I think it is a bit difficult to approach. The Canadian 8th faction will however find a way to get the planet as good as possible. I'm sure our tech minister, TOAD, will find how to do it.
Titan	posted 12-10-98 04:30 PM ET I'm sory, I made a an error. I dont think that H25N26, I was thinking about C25H26. but there is certainly a way to get rid of the surplus of nitrogen, and TOAD should still find a way to do it.
Jojo	posted 12-10-98 05:49 PM ET I would suppose, and this is just a WAG, that the tree in SMAC probably includes researching genetics to fit the humans to the planet, and terraforming for the other way around. I would also imagine that depending on your societal values, researching one or the other would be helped/hindered by your attitudes. I can see Skye's folks making people who dig lower oxygen and more nitrogen, and Morgan's people just tearing up land, moss, whatever to make the planet fit their bodies. The intersting thing here is that the transformations are contradictory, i.e., if you adapt your genes to the planetary conditions, then adapting the planet would nullify this research. Makes an interesting case for University of Planet, which would probably like to investigate both. Perhaps the Firaxis folks figured the planet could be altered some and people could be mutated a little, but not enough to meet each other's needs..... Like I said, this is totally a WAG, so I just wasted my time writing it, and wasted yoursin reading it....
The One And Only DarkStar	posted 12-10-98 06:43 PM ET OK Titan, now its personnal. Its TOAODS. For that great offense, i will work to terraform ALL Chiron BUT a region of 1 mile radius around your remote residence. I will fill this area with marshes witch will release poisonous mteeallic gases in the air. You cat will die and you will never be able to bury him. Ill burn the ozone layer above this marsh so you NEVER will be able to go. LOL
BKK the Mentat	posted 12-10-98 08:09 PM ET Prloblems with planet: High atmoshereic pressure High nitrogen content Thin O3 layer Water supply contains dissolved NO3+ ions Reversed ocean currents Extremly lage temperate zone oceans probobly dominate only 50-65% of planetary surface Scarcity of carbon Solutions: Reducing nitrogen in atmoshere to limestone or soda nitrates. Effect: lowers pressure from 1.72B to ~1.5B Electricly charged curtains high in the atmoshere could manufacture O3.Weather modification resulting in more lightning strikes could achive the same effect. Reversing ocean currents: use of magnetic generator cloud,Weather modification. Long term problems cuased by terraforming: ***Extreme climatic change could devastate the planet's natural cooling cycles.Iradiation of Chiron is 1.23Earth by comparison, Venus stated out at only 1.1E and look what happened,by damaging this delecte balance, you could inadvertantly destroy the planet. Withen 500000 years the oceans would begin to evaporate, and once the proportion of water vapor reaches >20% it will act as a greenhouse gas,tempratures will soar to 325+F and the planet will be set on a course to become a venus twin. Not exacly your perfect unspioled paridise anymore Deidre!
BKK the Mentat	posted 12-10-98 08:13 PM ET Oh yeah, the solution to the carbon problem could be to strip mine Eutryon's surface and deliver carbon to Chiron.
Brother Greg	posted 12-10-98 08:59 PM ET I know they mentioned somewhere boring hige holes into the mantle, though I can't remember the exact reasoning behind this. It would obviously heat the atmosphere, but I can't remember what that was supposed to do, other than melting significant portions of the icecap, and raising the levels of the sea. Woo Hoo, wipe out enemy coastal cities in one fell swoop. Yay! i'm sure there would be some way to protect against this too.
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey	posted 12-10-98 09:09 PM ET BG, The Boreholes are dug to release geothermal energy. Energy is currency, remember? There's also the mining oppurtunites you get from digging it. I guess it could be used to melt icecaps. I personally would never vote YEA for ice cap melting, unless I was just goofing around. Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general, YYYH
osric	posted 12-11-98 01:48 AM ET There are nitrogen fixing legumes (sp? beans?) that transport N2 from air to soil (in appropriate forms). Could we do the same with modified air-borne algee? There once was talk about doing such with Venus, but doubt we could change the rotational period enough to keep from boiling off the good stuff.
BKK the Mentat	posted 12-11-98 10:17 PM ET Did anybody catch that drift about planey\t being destroyed by terraforming it???????????
Corwin	posted 12-13-98 02:36 PM ET Humans never cared about their planet, why should they start now. We are polluting Earth, so why not terraform Chiron? Polluting earth might kill either it or all life, while terraforming Chiron might not do anything, or might make it unhospitable to humans, but then we can move on. 500,000 years is more then enough for human civilization to change it's ways.
Fluke	posted 12-14-98 11:29 PM ET Nitrogen in the air is not a problem. On Earth the content is 80%. NO3 in the water is a bigger problem but that would be solved by filters. The biggest problem is CO2. With Chiron only having half as much as Earth no plants would be able to grow in the free air and we can't just dome the entire planet for food. CO2 content would rise as more fossile fuels were burned but it's probably not enough. You could build giant factories to process basalt and ekstract carbon. Anyway it would just make the temp rise until we were fried so I don't know how good an idea it is. And there is something else wrong with Chiron's atmosphere, I can't remember what. Maybe it was air pressure...