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Author Topic:   Demo docs..?

CClark posted 12-09-98 12:27 PM ET
Well, according to the posts in the newsgroups from Brian Reynolds, the game is almost done and the reason that everyone will have to wait until late Jan/early Feb is due to the manual.
So, what kind of docs will the demo have? Will there be an electronic manual of any discription? (Rough draft, final?) Or is the demo going to have nothing but a little readme file to help you install and get the game going.
On the one hand, I have trouble thinking that they would release a demo for a complex game without some kind of instructions. On the other hand, if they have the instructions (manual) done, why the delay?
Just pondering...
DJ RRebel posted 12-09-98 12:45 PM ET
The delay, if I understand correctly, is for manual translation !!!
Like into French for here in Quebec, and into Spanish I'm guessing for in the states !!!
Who knows what their overseas plans are !!!
Anyways, all this news seems to validate a Mid-Feb release plus/minus a week or so ... I'm happy about that as it is !!!
Brother Greg posted 12-09-98 06:49 PM ET
Ah, stuff the Krauts and the Frogs, get the bloody English game out now, and get to the other languages when they have time.
(Note, I am being VERY sarcastic there. I don't really mean it)
Gord McLeod posted 12-09-98 06:54 PM ET
Docs for a demo usually consist of some sort of readme.txt file at most, and sometimes in-game electronic documentation. That tends to be about it.
Pasi posted 12-09-98 07:08 PM ET
Well, if the translation is going to be as good as most of the manuals for consumer electronics (TVs, VCRs) here in Finland, then it's not worth it! You are eventually forced to see the english version, the translations are a joke.
True story:
They asked here in Finland a local (finn) director of Grundig about their manual translation.
The journalist quoted the manual for the director and asked what it means:
Director: "Mmmmmm could you repeat that, please".
The quote was repeated.
Director: "Mmmmm, ahem, does it REALLY say something like that?"
... and so on, repeat several times...
And why can't the game be released in english first? That's what's happening with fantasy books, for example. The translations come when they are done.

In any case, I'll buy the english version (most propably there won't be finnish translation for this game).

Sorry, I just want to SMAC somebody =)
Pasi
Thue posted 12-10-98 06:11 PM ET
I say get the English version out now!
bye the way, I still haven't seen a game with a Danish manual...
Most manuals really suck - like it's just an afterthougth. I hope this one will be better
Steel_Dragon posted 12-11-98 04:05 AM ET
Civ's manual was GREAT!, Civ2 manuel was ok
MikeH II posted 12-11-98 09:31 AM ET
I hope they take on board the suggestions we made for the manual design on the pre-collapse forums.
DJ RRebel posted 12-11-98 11:47 AM ET
Yeah Mike, so do I ... personally, I think the Civ2 manual was far and away the worst part of the game (I'm including the civlopedia too !!!)
There were things that should have been in the manual that weren't and took me 10 minutes to find in the civlopedia !!! It got really annoying sometimes !!!
On the other hand, the poster was awsome, I'd love to see the same sort of poster again, but broken up into smaller sections on different, smaller posters .. my poster got really ragedy in the end !!! (Well, not in the end .. lol .. since I'm actually still using it !!!
BoomBoom posted 12-11-98 02:43 PM ET
I actually never read the manual anyway, only when I really can't figure how to do something. And as SMAC is going to be very similar to other such games (in the basics that is), I don't know if you actually need a manual. As for the demo, they probably give you ingame help (as in civ1 when you played Chieftain).
Marian posted 12-11-98 05:26 PM ET
Its all up to the money.
If they would bring it onto the market in one language, they couldn't sell it as good in another language.
I don't have a problem with a English version. But there are some Krauts here in Germany that do.
Ciao
Marian
Editor of the Alpha Centauri Zone
http://www.juhu.de/hartel/alppa
Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS posted 12-11-98 05:38 PM ET
One of the biggest reasons to get E/F/G released at the same time is the grey market in Europe. Imported English games have severe impacts on the ability of retailers in Europe to sell the game in the numbers that they could. EA has operated with this in mind for some time and has seen the impact first hand.
jkm
firaxis games
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey posted 12-11-98 10:35 PM ET
Thanks for answering that Jeff. I personally would prefer an English game first. Mostly because I wanna play now! But I see why they need to go out at the same time.
Ah well, I'll have a demo, & possibly a few other games to hold me off 'till February!
Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general,
YYYH
Gord McLeod posted 12-11-98 10:49 PM ET
That grey market is a pretty good point, that makes a lot of sense. It's disappointing to have to wait longer when it doesn't even mean further development time for the game, but we WILL have the demo, and Half-Life is keeping me pretty busy in the meantime, so I'll survive... I've also been dabbling in Civ2 again so I have my TBS fix down as well.
MikeH II posted 12-13-98 07:34 AM ET
Does that mean that we are definately getting the game in Europe at the same time as North America? I hope so.
DHE_X2 posted 12-13-98 06:40 PM ET
Just run the entire manual and game through the altavista translator, it'll take you all of five minutes, though the translation will be horrible.
Gord McLeod posted 12-13-98 06:49 PM ET
If it were that easy, I suspect someone would have thought of it by now. There are other issues to deal with though. Copyright, printing arrangements, localization of fonts, making sure the manual conveys the right information (a horrible translation won't do,) etc.
DJ RRebel posted 12-14-98 04:46 PM ET
Yeah ... I really hope the manual is more detailed when it comes to technoligies and wonders (secret projects) then the Civ 2 manual was .. that was a severely laking point in Civ 2 !!!
They had the right idea with the poster, but it didn't convey enough information !!!
And I remember, in Civ 2, I think it was the cathedral wonder bach's something or another (I can't remember which, but you get it), anyways, in it's movie, it said it added one happy person per city on the continent !!! (I thought it actually was supposed to increase your population by one in each city !!!)
In the manual, it said it made one content person happy in each of your cities (no mention of the continent).
In the civlopedia, it said it gave you one happy person in every "friendly" city ... did that include your ally's cities, because they're supposed to be "friendly" !!! I mean, why specify something like "friendly", when you could have just said in each of your cities ???
(Once again, I'm not sure of the actual wonder, or if there was more than one, but you get the idea, there were 3 different descriptions in 3 different places for one wonder, and then in for another wonder, there was only the civlopedia and the movie itself !!!
I'd like to see each of the wonders and tech advances outlined in the manual !!!
I know it would make it like 200 pages+, but it would be worth it in the long run !!!
MikeH II posted 12-14-98 04:55 PM ET
Can't remember if you joined in the discussion about the manuals we had before DJ, I think most people said they'd be willing to pay a little bit more for a large detailed manual. I remember the call for ring binding was quite loud as well. So that we could lay it flat and still play 2 handed. I don't know how much input FIRAXIS has into this sort of thing but I hope some of our ideas get in.
All I want really is basic instructions for the demo, I can wait for anything else 'till the game is released.
DJ RRebel posted 12-14-98 05:01 PM ET
I think that's when I started ...
I remember reading ideas, but I think I was probably just lurking back then !!!
But I agree, I'd pay a little more for better documentation ... and more posters !!!
Or what would be better, is a card like format !!!
And if they have to have a poster, give us 2 copies for when our first ones get ripped to shreds !!! lol
Kurn posted 12-15-98 03:46 AM ET
I think that they are going with the card format. Remember the vote a few months back?
Roland posted 12-15-98 06:15 AM ET
I can understand that they want to make the best of the european market, at least with the main languages. CIVII german version wasn't as worse as many manual translations, but I still installed the english version as some of the translations were real crap.
Medivh posted 12-15-98 07:39 AM ET
I'm from Denmark and I know that most manuals come in a scandinavian version ( norwegian, swedish and danish ) resulting in delays. Personally I prefer english maunals, and I know that most of my friends do the same... danish sux when it comes to game manuals.
The problem is mostly in France and Germany where large parts of the population ( sorry, no offend ) stick to their own lanungage thus making the games companies print 'em in their laungage.....
SnowFire posted 12-15-98 06:11 PM ET
I satisfied to route leaves (to traveler) of an old track that said: " two extensive and legs trunkless of the stone support in the desert. Near them, in the sand, sunk half, lies broken of visage, that frown, and wrinkled lip, and scorn of the cold commando, says that its receiver of paper of the escultor those passions read which yet survive, printed in these things without life, the hand that of imitation and the heart that it fed. And in the socle these words appear -- " my name is Ozymandias, king of kings: Watch in my works, ye powerful, and the desperation! " Nothing next to the rest. Around the decay of that colossal ruin, limitless and it discovers the solitaire and the level sands stretch far far " - Shelley
Nothing like the scorn of the cold commando. Brrr!
(that was a translation of Ozymandias to Spanish and then translated back to English)
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Author	Topic: Demo docs..?
CClark	posted 12-09-98 12:27 PM ET Well, according to the posts in the newsgroups from Brian Reynolds, the game is almost done and the reason that everyone will have to wait until late Jan/early Feb is due to the manual. So, what kind of docs will the demo have? Will there be an electronic manual of any discription? (Rough draft, final?) Or is the demo going to have nothing but a little readme file to help you install and get the game going. On the one hand, I have trouble thinking that they would release a demo for a complex game without some kind of instructions. On the other hand, if they have the instructions (manual) done, why the delay? Just pondering...
DJ RRebel	posted 12-09-98 12:45 PM ET The delay, if I understand correctly, is for manual translation !!! Like into French for here in Quebec, and into Spanish I'm guessing for in the states !!! Who knows what their overseas plans are !!! Anyways, all this news seems to validate a Mid-Feb release plus/minus a week or so ... I'm happy about that as it is !!!
Brother Greg	posted 12-09-98 06:49 PM ET Ah, stuff the Krauts and the Frogs, get the bloody English game out now, and get to the other languages when they have time. (Note, I am being VERY sarcastic there. I don't really mean it)
Gord McLeod	posted 12-09-98 06:54 PM ET Docs for a demo usually consist of some sort of readme.txt file at most, and sometimes in-game electronic documentation. That tends to be about it.
Pasi	posted 12-09-98 07:08 PM ET Well, if the translation is going to be as good as most of the manuals for consumer electronics (TVs, VCRs) here in Finland, then it's not worth it! You are eventually forced to see the english version, the translations are a joke. True story: They asked here in Finland a local (finn) director of Grundig about their manual translation. The journalist quoted the manual for the director and asked what it means: Director: "Mmmmmm could you repeat that, please". The quote was repeated. Director: "Mmmmm, ahem, does it REALLY say something like that?" ... and so on, repeat several times... And why can't the game be released in english first? That's what's happening with fantasy books, for example. The translations come when they are done. In any case, I'll buy the english version (most propably there won't be finnish translation for this game). Sorry, I just want to SMAC somebody =) Pasi
Thue	posted 12-10-98 06:11 PM ET I say get the English version out now! bye the way, I still haven't seen a game with a Danish manual... Most manuals really suck - like it's just an afterthougth. I hope this one will be better
Steel_Dragon	posted 12-11-98 04:05 AM ET Civ's manual was GREAT!, Civ2 manuel was ok
MikeH II	posted 12-11-98 09:31 AM ET I hope they take on board the suggestions we made for the manual design on the pre-collapse forums.
DJ RRebel	posted 12-11-98 11:47 AM ET Yeah Mike, so do I ... personally, I think the Civ2 manual was far and away the worst part of the game (I'm including the civlopedia too !!!) There were things that should have been in the manual that weren't and took me 10 minutes to find in the civlopedia !!! It got really annoying sometimes !!! On the other hand, the poster was awsome, I'd love to see the same sort of poster again, but broken up into smaller sections on different, smaller posters .. my poster got really ragedy in the end !!! (Well, not in the end .. lol .. since I'm actually still using it !!!
BoomBoom	posted 12-11-98 02:43 PM ET I actually never read the manual anyway, only when I really can't figure how to do something. And as SMAC is going to be very similar to other such games (in the basics that is), I don't know if you actually need a manual. As for the demo, they probably give you ingame help (as in civ1 when you played Chieftain).
Marian	posted 12-11-98 05:26 PM ET Its all up to the money. If they would bring it onto the market in one language, they couldn't sell it as good in another language. I don't have a problem with a English version. But there are some Krauts here in Germany that do. Ciao Marian Editor of the Alpha Centauri Zone http://www.juhu.de/hartel/alppa
Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS	posted 12-11-98 05:38 PM ET One of the biggest reasons to get E/F/G released at the same time is the grey market in Europe. Imported English games have severe impacts on the ability of retailers in Europe to sell the game in the numbers that they could. EA has operated with this in mind for some time and has seen the impact first hand. jkm firaxis games
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey	posted 12-11-98 10:35 PM ET Thanks for answering that Jeff. I personally would prefer an English game first. Mostly because I wanna play now! But I see why they need to go out at the same time. Ah well, I'll have a demo, & possibly a few other games to hold me off 'till February! Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general, YYYH
Gord McLeod	posted 12-11-98 10:49 PM ET That grey market is a pretty good point, that makes a lot of sense. It's disappointing to have to wait longer when it doesn't even mean further development time for the game, but we WILL have the demo, and Half-Life is keeping me pretty busy in the meantime, so I'll survive... I've also been dabbling in Civ2 again so I have my TBS fix down as well.
MikeH II	posted 12-13-98 07:34 AM ET Does that mean that we are definately getting the game in Europe at the same time as North America? I hope so.
DHE_X2	posted 12-13-98 06:40 PM ET Just run the entire manual and game through the altavista translator, it'll take you all of five minutes, though the translation will be horrible.
Gord McLeod	posted 12-13-98 06:49 PM ET If it were that easy, I suspect someone would have thought of it by now. There are other issues to deal with though. Copyright, printing arrangements, localization of fonts, making sure the manual conveys the right information (a horrible translation won't do,) etc.
DJ RRebel	posted 12-14-98 04:46 PM ET Yeah ... I really hope the manual is more detailed when it comes to technoligies and wonders (secret projects) then the Civ 2 manual was .. that was a severely laking point in Civ 2 !!! They had the right idea with the poster, but it didn't convey enough information !!! And I remember, in Civ 2, I think it was the cathedral wonder bach's something or another (I can't remember which, but you get it), anyways, in it's movie, it said it added one happy person per city on the continent !!! (I thought it actually was supposed to increase your population by one in each city !!!) In the manual, it said it made one content person happy in each of your cities (no mention of the continent). In the civlopedia, it said it gave you one happy person in every "friendly" city ... did that include your ally's cities, because they're supposed to be "friendly" !!! I mean, why specify something like "friendly", when you could have just said in each of your cities ??? (Once again, I'm not sure of the actual wonder, or if there was more than one, but you get the idea, there were 3 different descriptions in 3 different places for one wonder, and then in for another wonder, there was only the civlopedia and the movie itself !!! I'd like to see each of the wonders and tech advances outlined in the manual !!! I know it would make it like 200 pages+, but it would be worth it in the long run !!!
MikeH II	posted 12-14-98 04:55 PM ET Can't remember if you joined in the discussion about the manuals we had before DJ, I think most people said they'd be willing to pay a little bit more for a large detailed manual. I remember the call for ring binding was quite loud as well. So that we could lay it flat and still play 2 handed. I don't know how much input FIRAXIS has into this sort of thing but I hope some of our ideas get in. All I want really is basic instructions for the demo, I can wait for anything else 'till the game is released.
DJ RRebel	posted 12-14-98 05:01 PM ET I think that's when I started ... I remember reading ideas, but I think I was probably just lurking back then !!! But I agree, I'd pay a little more for better documentation ... and more posters !!! Or what would be better, is a card like format !!! And if they have to have a poster, give us 2 copies for when our first ones get ripped to shreds !!! lol
Kurn	posted 12-15-98 03:46 AM ET I think that they are going with the card format. Remember the vote a few months back?
Roland	posted 12-15-98 06:15 AM ET I can understand that they want to make the best of the european market, at least with the main languages. CIVII german version wasn't as worse as many manual translations, but I still installed the english version as some of the translations were real crap.
Medivh	posted 12-15-98 07:39 AM ET I'm from Denmark and I know that most manuals come in a scandinavian version ( norwegian, swedish and danish ) resulting in delays. Personally I prefer english maunals, and I know that most of my friends do the same... danish sux when it comes to game manuals. The problem is mostly in France and Germany where large parts of the population ( sorry, no offend ) stick to their own lanungage thus making the games companies print 'em in their laungage.....
SnowFire	posted 12-15-98 06:11 PM ET I satisfied to route leaves (to traveler) of an old track that said: " two extensive and legs trunkless of the stone support in the desert. Near them, in the sand, sunk half, lies broken of visage, that frown, and wrinkled lip, and scorn of the cold commando, says that its receiver of paper of the escultor those passions read which yet survive, printed in these things without life, the hand that of imitation and the heart that it fed. And in the socle these words appear -- " my name is Ozymandias, king of kings: Watch in my works, ye powerful, and the desperation! " Nothing next to the rest. Around the decay of that colossal ruin, limitless and it discovers the solitaire and the level sands stretch far far " - Shelley Nothing like the scorn of the cold commando. Brrr! (that was a translation of Ozymandias to Spanish and then translated back to English)