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Author Topic:   Diplomatic Sabotage

Rang posted 12-08-98 08:48 PM ET
In Seven Kingdoms2, you will be able to induce "diplomatic incidents" between two of your enemies. Though it's probably too late for incorporation at this point, I would like to be able to do something similar in SMAC. This devious feature adds a whole new dimension to diplomacy, espionage, and sabotage.
Are you running into problems against a united alliance that's crushing you? Sow some confusion into the enemy ranks! Disguise your saboteur as an enemy and attack the other enemy. When such an "incident" occurs, the wounded enemy would confront the scapegoat enemy and demand retributions. The scapegoat enemy can deny that it was him, and the wounded enemy may choose to believe or not.
Thus, whenever one faction's troops attacks another, the aggressor has the option of denying it was really him, (even when it is!). This adds an ominious dimension to negotiations. Do you believe your ally's denials or not? Do you trust that he is innocent? Or merely devious and trying to cast blame on a common enemy?
chrisk posted 12-08-98 10:13 PM ET
That sounds cool!
However, I found espionage made civ2 to easy. the ability to take over an enemies city by inciting a revolt made it really easy to win. I like the idea of being disguised as a another faction though.
????????chrisk????????
Shining1 posted 12-08-98 10:24 PM ET
An extremely interesting idea.
Steel_Dragon posted 12-09-98 03:57 AM ET
I like it.

If we all like it may not be to late to incorpate it. Depending on how hard it would be.
Lets turn this forum into a petition.
Steel_Dragon, for the addition, assuming its not there
Lee Johnson posted 12-09-98 09:25 AM ET
No, no, NO! At this stage, the team would only be fixing bugs. Adding features at this extremely late stage of development is asking for Trouble, with a capital 'T'.
CClark posted 12-09-98 11:48 AM ET
If they are going to be going gold in a week or so, the feature would only appear in a patch if it isn't already there.
What might work, is a Special Feature that you can add to a unit. The feature could be called something like "Imposter" and would allow you to pick a faction that the unit is going to pretend to be. You and the named faction would see the unit as belonging to you. Any other faction would see it as belonging to the implicated faction.
e.g You are the Gaians and create a unit with teh feature of Imposter. You declare at build time that the unit will be pretending to be a Spartan. On the map, you see the unit in your colours (with a little star or question mark or something over it to mark it as special). Spartan units would see the unit as being a Gaian unit. The UoP, PK, Morgan, Hive and Believers would see the unit with Spartan colours and think that it was a Spartan unit.
Obviously, the cost for the Imposter feature should be quite high as this kind of unit could be used for all sorts of mishchief. Also, you shouldn't be able to pretend to be a faction unless you already know their comm signal. The Imposter feature shouldn't be available until an appropriate advancement had been researched.
Although I doubt that we'll see this, I agree that it would be a really cool thing!
Heckler posted 12-09-98 01:42 PM ET
CClark your Imposter idea is excellent but for a few points
Name: Imposter is good with a medieval level tech better for the tech level of the game would be IFF Mimic
Working: Everyone should see the unit as their own (or the faction of your choice) this would allow for several tech types as you develop better and better ECM/ECCM. One such tech string could be
IFF Mimic (base tech to use this)
Lascom IFF (counter to base IFF Mimic)
Microcrystals (miniture beam splitters that nullify Lascom IFF)
Neutrino Communicators (counter Microcrystals)
Neutrino Mirror (counter to Neutrino Communicators)
Personal Graviton Transmitters (counter Neutrino Mirror)
Gravity Ripple Emmiter (counter PGT)
DNA Encoding (counters GRE)
etc...
This would add another depth to combat and allow factions that don't have great military power to wage an effective war. As an aside, when you commit espionage will you be able to frame another faction? If so will you be able to chose the faction you blame?
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Author	Topic: Diplomatic Sabotage
Rang	posted 12-08-98 08:48 PM ET In Seven Kingdoms2, you will be able to induce "diplomatic incidents" between two of your enemies. Though it's probably too late for incorporation at this point, I would like to be able to do something similar in SMAC. This devious feature adds a whole new dimension to diplomacy, espionage, and sabotage. Are you running into problems against a united alliance that's crushing you? Sow some confusion into the enemy ranks! Disguise your saboteur as an enemy and attack the other enemy. When such an "incident" occurs, the wounded enemy would confront the scapegoat enemy and demand retributions. The scapegoat enemy can deny that it was him, and the wounded enemy may choose to believe or not. Thus, whenever one faction's troops attacks another, the aggressor has the option of denying it was really him, (even when it is!). This adds an ominious dimension to negotiations. Do you believe your ally's denials or not? Do you trust that he is innocent? Or merely devious and trying to cast blame on a common enemy?
chrisk	posted 12-08-98 10:13 PM ET That sounds cool! However, I found espionage made civ2 to easy. the ability to take over an enemies city by inciting a revolt made it really easy to win. I like the idea of being disguised as a another faction though. ????????chrisk????????
Shining1	posted 12-08-98 10:24 PM ET An extremely interesting idea.
Steel_Dragon	posted 12-09-98 03:57 AM ET I like it. If we all like it may not be to late to incorpate it. Depending on how hard it would be. Lets turn this forum into a petition. Steel_Dragon, for the addition, assuming its not there
Lee Johnson	posted 12-09-98 09:25 AM ET No, no, NO! At this stage, the team would only be fixing bugs. Adding features at this extremely late stage of development is asking for Trouble, with a capital 'T'.
CClark	posted 12-09-98 11:48 AM ET If they are going to be going gold in a week or so, the feature would only appear in a patch if it isn't already there. What might work, is a Special Feature that you can add to a unit. The feature could be called something like "Imposter" and would allow you to pick a faction that the unit is going to pretend to be. You and the named faction would see the unit as belonging to you. Any other faction would see it as belonging to the implicated faction. e.g You are the Gaians and create a unit with teh feature of Imposter. You declare at build time that the unit will be pretending to be a Spartan. On the map, you see the unit in your colours (with a little star or question mark or something over it to mark it as special). Spartan units would see the unit as being a Gaian unit. The UoP, PK, Morgan, Hive and Believers would see the unit with Spartan colours and think that it was a Spartan unit. Obviously, the cost for the Imposter feature should be quite high as this kind of unit could be used for all sorts of mishchief. Also, you shouldn't be able to pretend to be a faction unless you already know their comm signal. The Imposter feature shouldn't be available until an appropriate advancement had been researched. Although I doubt that we'll see this, I agree that it would be a really cool thing!
Heckler	posted 12-09-98 01:42 PM ET CClark your Imposter idea is excellent but for a few points Name: Imposter is good with a medieval level tech better for the tech level of the game would be IFF Mimic Working: Everyone should see the unit as their own (or the faction of your choice) this would allow for several tech types as you develop better and better ECM/ECCM. One such tech string could be IFF Mimic (base tech to use this) Lascom IFF (counter to base IFF Mimic) Microcrystals (miniture beam splitters that nullify Lascom IFF) Neutrino Communicators (counter Microcrystals) Neutrino Mirror (counter to Neutrino Communicators) Personal Graviton Transmitters (counter Neutrino Mirror) Gravity Ripple Emmiter (counter PGT) DNA Encoding (counters GRE) etc... This would add another depth to combat and allow factions that don't have great military power to wage an effective war. As an aside, when you commit espionage will you be able to frame another faction? If so will you be able to chose the faction you blame?