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Author Topic:   Dare I say it (healthcare)

Steel_Dragon posted 12-08-98 01:16 PM ET
Should people pay the average cost of healthcare or should they pay for there own healthcare.
PLEASE NOTE THIS IS NOT ABOUT SHOULD WE HAVE SOCIALIZED HEALTHCARE! IT IS ABOUT WETHER SOMEONE SHOULD PAY THE FOR THEMSELVES OR PAY THE AVERAGE!
Kirel posted 12-10-98 03:51 PM ET
Hi.
I think that an average is,in this case the most fair.
I mean,accidents happen,disease is still a problem,and,well,an appendix removal,for instance isn't for free.
This must,of course,be an income based fee,where you pay less if you make less.
Gee,it seems that im in for the socialized **** anyway.Well,I am a Swede,we got it,and it works.
I recently broke my arm.Personal cost-300 swedish crowns.
That is somwhere close to 40 US-dollars.
Whithout a personal medical insurance.
The rest is in our tax.
Thanks.
Kirel
Hothram Upravda posted 12-10-98 05:52 PM ET
Both. I think i should depend on exactly what happened to a person.
People should not for example have to pay to get innoculations for there kids. But should pay more for less humanitarian things. Such as the vast majority of little things that people go to doctors for. Allergies, rashes, broken bones. And the like..
Hothram Upravda
TB
Steel_Dragon posted 12-11-98 03:22 AM ET
My belief is life is sorta of like a game of cards. You get a hand dealt to you weather good or bad it is your hand. Everyone has to ante in to a card game. I see the cost of Healthcare sorta as the ante. It's something everyone has to pay. Since we all took the same gamble, being born, Everyone should pay the same ante.
Kryten posted 12-11-98 03:40 AM ET
TANSTAAFL!! You get what you pay for. Yes, Kirel-Sweden's system does work but it's propped up by a horrendous nominal tax rate. What it comes down to is this- if there is no real cost for medical care, people will seek treatment much more casually, and abuse will become a problem.
Tapiolan poika posted 12-11-98 08:19 AM ET
TANSTAAFL!!! yourself, Kryten! (I like your handle, though. Anything relating to Red Dwarf is fun! Well, almost...)
As a matter of fact, surprisingly (from your point of view :p ) enough, it turns out that Sweden's medical system costs less than that of USA, and this isn't something that's happened over the last few years - it's been a fact for quite a long time. Go check it out for yourself. Your childish "Don't touch my money - pay for yourself" attitude just happens to result in a more expensive system.
However, to be fair, it turns out that _completely_ removing costs does have the result that "people will seek treatment much more casually", as you put it. I live in Sweden, as well, and recently we got free healthcare for children. I'm not complaining (I've a baby girl, myself, and kids COST!), but it turns out that so many use the free healthcare, that it gets hard to get appointments, and the emergency wards at hospitals are swamped with unnecessary work... There's talk about introducing a nominal fee again...
Actually, it's been shown, that generally you get a very large difference in number of patients (or whatever, when it concerns systems like this), when you step from 'gratis' to 'nominal fee'. Changes making things more expensive don't affect statistics appreciably, if at all... An example of this is another reform that was made in the early 90's here. The compensation you got when on sick leave used to be 100% of pay from day one. This resulted in some abuse. Thus, the compensation was reduced to 75% of normal pay. This resulted in a massive reduction of sick days in the Swedish population... Then someone decided to reduce the abuse even more, and a day without compensation was introduced. This didn't result in any reduction of sick days (but, of course, quite a lot of money was saved...). On the other hand, as time has passed, it's turned out that quite a few persons who SHOULD have stayed home go to work sick, infecting their colleagues, and, quite often getting more ill themselves in the process...
Kirel posted 12-11-98 09:23 AM ET
Halleluja.
Tapiolan poika posted 12-11-98 09:29 AM ET
Hej, Kirel. Jag t�nkte v�l att du skulle uppskatta en f�rnuftets och medm�nsklighetens r�st i j�nkarm�rkret...
Franjo
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Author	Topic: Dare I say it (healthcare)
Steel_Dragon	posted 12-08-98 01:16 PM ET Should people pay the average cost of healthcare or should they pay for there own healthcare. PLEASE NOTE THIS IS NOT ABOUT SHOULD WE HAVE SOCIALIZED HEALTHCARE! IT IS ABOUT WETHER SOMEONE SHOULD PAY THE FOR THEMSELVES OR PAY THE AVERAGE!
Kirel	posted 12-10-98 03:51 PM ET Hi. I think that an average is,in this case the most fair. I mean,accidents happen,disease is still a problem,and,well,an appendix removal,for instance isn't for free. This must,of course,be an income based fee,where you pay less if you make less. Gee,it seems that im in for the socialized **** anyway.Well,I am a Swede,we got it,and it works. I recently broke my arm.Personal cost-300 swedish crowns. That is somwhere close to 40 US-dollars. Whithout a personal medical insurance. The rest is in our tax. Thanks. Kirel
Hothram Upravda	posted 12-10-98 05:52 PM ET Both. I think i should depend on exactly what happened to a person. People should not for example have to pay to get innoculations for there kids. But should pay more for less humanitarian things. Such as the vast majority of little things that people go to doctors for. Allergies, rashes, broken bones. And the like.. Hothram Upravda TB
Steel_Dragon	posted 12-11-98 03:22 AM ET My belief is life is sorta of like a game of cards. You get a hand dealt to you weather good or bad it is your hand. Everyone has to ante in to a card game. I see the cost of Healthcare sorta as the ante. It's something everyone has to pay. Since we all took the same gamble, being born, Everyone should pay the same ante.
Kryten	posted 12-11-98 03:40 AM ET TANSTAAFL!! You get what you pay for. Yes, Kirel-Sweden's system does work but it's propped up by a horrendous nominal tax rate. What it comes down to is this- if there is no real cost for medical care, people will seek treatment much more casually, and abuse will become a problem.
Tapiolan poika	posted 12-11-98 08:19 AM ET TANSTAAFL!!! yourself, Kryten! (I like your handle, though. Anything relating to Red Dwarf is fun! Well, almost...) As a matter of fact, surprisingly (from your point of view :p ) enough, it turns out that Sweden's medical system costs less than that of USA, and this isn't something that's happened over the last few years - it's been a fact for quite a long time. Go check it out for yourself. Your childish "Don't touch my money - pay for yourself" attitude just happens to result in a more expensive system. However, to be fair, it turns out that _completely_ removing costs does have the result that "people will seek treatment much more casually", as you put it. I live in Sweden, as well, and recently we got free healthcare for children. I'm not complaining (I've a baby girl, myself, and kids COST!), but it turns out that so many use the free healthcare, that it gets hard to get appointments, and the emergency wards at hospitals are swamped with unnecessary work... There's talk about introducing a nominal fee again... Actually, it's been shown, that generally you get a very large difference in number of patients (or whatever, when it concerns systems like this), when you step from 'gratis' to 'nominal fee'. Changes making things more expensive don't affect statistics appreciably, if at all... An example of this is another reform that was made in the early 90's here. The compensation you got when on sick leave used to be 100% of pay from day one. This resulted in some abuse. Thus, the compensation was reduced to 75% of normal pay. This resulted in a massive reduction of sick days in the Swedish population... Then someone decided to reduce the abuse even more, and a day without compensation was introduced. This didn't result in any reduction of sick days (but, of course, quite a lot of money was saved...). On the other hand, as time has passed, it's turned out that quite a few persons who SHOULD have stayed home go to work sick, infecting their colleagues, and, quite often getting more ill themselves in the process...
Kirel	posted 12-11-98 09:23 AM ET Halleluja.
Tapiolan poika	posted 12-11-98 09:29 AM ET Hej, Kirel. Jag t�nkte v�l att du skulle uppskatta en f�rnuftets och medm�nsklighetens r�st i j�nkarm�rkret... Franjo