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Author Topic:   OuterSpace

Steel_Dragon posted 12-07-98 12:35 PM ET
I wanted to spread a few ideas.
One: From the Scifi channal: The government should sponsor contest to get private citizens to space. This would maybe lead to five or six groups trying to win, each spending 3-4 million in order to win say 10 million. That means to economy would get 15 to 24 million of growth for 10 million government dollars.
Second the governments(US and Others) should renouce the no territory in space laws. So that homesteaders in space could receive a government back piece of land, say on the Moon or claim an entire Astroid, provide they were actually there.
DJ RRebel posted 12-07-98 02:37 PM ET
Personally, I think even here on Earth we should be nationless (well, make that one planetary nation) !!!
I think we have important delemas when it comes to space exploration !!!
What is going on now with the international space station is great !!!
What would be my ideal situation, is that a planetary space agency be created, (maybe under the UN), that would be responsible for anything off-planet !!! Anyone could ask for access to certain off-planet territories (wether on the moon, mars or an asteroid), but the data obtained would be open for everyone back on earth !!!
The moment we start drawing borders in space, is the moment we lose sight of what it's all about !!!
Holy crappers, I'm getting awfully philisophical today !!!
Spoe posted 12-07-98 03:42 PM ET
Not to be pedantic(me? no, never.), but ITYM "countries", DJ, not "nations". The difference? Germans are a nation, Germany is a country.
Anyway, I'm not so sure a single world government is such a good idea(at least until humanity has colonized other worlds in sufficient numbers); there would be outside influence to correct the wrongs of the government. And there will be. It is inherant to the nature of government(regardless of its form; I assume you've seen the US crytography proposals out there) to grab power and try to trod on the citizen.
Brother Greg posted 12-07-98 06:43 PM ET
Actually in the last two weeks I have heard two strange ideas.
One is a company that is sending a probe out to an asteroid that appears every 33 years or so. They claim that if their probe gets near the asteroid, they will "own" it.
The second is the next Mars mission. A firm in Europe (from memory) is planning on landing a scientific probe on Mars, but there's a catch. They want to fund it via advertising. "Huh?" I hear you say. (Well, maybe not, they don't have realaudio on this forum )
What they plan on doing is selling the first advertising on Mars. The balloons that are to be used to cushion the fall of the module/probe will have advertising on the outside, the premise being that the expedition will be well publicised, and therefore a good advertising scheme.
Isn't this sad that first of all we have companies attempting to claim an asteroid, and from what I heard under international law they will be able to do so. And secondly, we haven't even landed a man on Mars yet, but we are going to be littering it with advertising.
Now is it just me, or is it getting to the stage where companies are making the laws, while governments sit back and rake in the kickbacks?
IMHO the Galaxy should be declared the biggest "World Heritage Area" (a misnomer, I know) ever, and we should limit any interference to scientific purposes only.
One day man rapes the world, the next the galaxy... =(
Is man's evolution along the lines of:
Infancy: lives in harmony with the world and the universe.
Teens: rapes the world, lives in harmony with the universe.
Mid Life: The world is exhausted, so man rapes the universe.
Old Age: Wonders why there's nothing left...
And it's funny, I don't consider myself a greenie. Also, pardon the use of the word "rape", but that is in effect what we are doing!
DHE_X2 posted 12-07-98 06:55 PM ET
Actually, I think private companies should be able to advertise, etc. Anything that persuades the public to fund space exploration is, imho, good. As for borders, whoever gets there first should own it and be able to set borders, but actions in the claimed territory must be legal. Bg, the universe is nigh on infinite. By the time we use up the resources in the solar system, we will surely be able to colonize new systems. As for using up resources at all, recycling technologies and more efficient energy production will prevent resources from being wasted. When you think about it, earth has plenty of resources and space left(turn to the seas, we could make use of the other 70% of the earth's surface.), though fossil fuels are lacking.
Victor Galis posted 12-07-98 07:53 PM ET
I'm afraid that littering mars with advertsiments is now necesarry. No country is willing to do enough to attempt to colonize space. It may take private companies to achieve anything like the Unity anytime soon. (Which is sad, but necesary.) Anything that promotes space exploration is good.
My conclusion: We need another Cold War! If we had another Cold War then we could have another space race.
DHE_X2 posted 12-07-98 07:56 PM ET
True. Peace breeds apathy, which is quite sad, since it gives the damn hawks another reason to start a meaningless war.
~DHE, been listening to Black Sabbath's "War Pigs" too long.
bio_spacer posted 12-07-98 08:19 PM ET
hey its me again!
i agree with "brother greg" in that the companies seem to becomming more powerfull than the governments. that would be like in a trilogy i read about the colonization and independece of Mars. they r calles Red mars, Green Mars, and Blue Mars. they r VERY good books and i reconmend them to everyone who like sci-fi.
Steel_Dragon posted 12-08-98 12:01 PM ET
The reason I said there should be territory in space is that a citizen hopefully not companies can go to Mars, the Moon, an astriod or any other planet and feel safe becuase their government is behind them. A clearing house through the UN would be a good idea. That each person get plot a of simalar size on each body. It hopefully could be turned ino an econmic war, who could get there first. But in a hunderd years it would matter becuase the off-worlds would become independant. Maybe thats why the Governments don't want to become Imperists. But the winner still gets a hunderd or so years of wealth.
Titan posted 12-08-98 05:58 PM ET
Steel Dragon, with the new shuttle that the NASA is working on, the X-33, a private citizen will be able, at a high cost though, to buy himself, a trip in space. I do not think that your contest would be very rentable, though.
Steel_Dragon posted 12-08-98 07:04 PM ET
New contest next party on the Moon wins a x billion(S) from the US government.
Rules:
1. must have atleast one US citizen in party.
2. twenty-five percent of Raw materials must be of US orgin
3. Fifty percent of Manufature must be done in US.
Depending on the size of x, investors would poor out of the wood to support teams. And even the lossing team could be a viable space exploration corpation.
I think it would work.
jfrazier posted 12-08-98 07:22 PM ET
I would hate to see space being partitioned. However, as all in this thread know, capitalism and free market competition will "speed up" the process in settling space. These damn big conglomerates have to have something to shoot for: advertisment, ownership, abuse of its already poor employees, you name it. Now, the motivation is to get in to space and not only claim what you land on, but to exploit it. sounds like a chance to start off doing something good turning evil, if you know what I mean.
Unfortunately, the voters in the western world nations just don't get behind their gov't to support more space exploration. I know its expensive, but if any of us had a chance to vote on a .10cent tax increase on more janitorial service or space exploration, we would take the space in a second.Uh???
Jeff
Ceasar of the Stars
The One And Only DarkStar posted 12-08-98 07:23 PM ET
Own space? I couldn't care less. See why.
(Scene of me typing on SMAC forum fades to big company meeting.)
Boss: So, Publicity manager, whats up in your domain.
Pub guy: Well, we put advertisements on asteroid. It cost us 45 million dollars to send probes to 20 asteroids. They all have attached to them some adds.
Boss: And who will see them.
Pub guy: Well people who stay in the asteroid fields. In the X-33 at 14 times the speed of sound, travelers wont see them. So its mainly scientists guys that search metal.
Boss: You dumbass!!! You know those geeks have all been brainwashed by Star Trek 2 series. They are all communists now. They dont care for advertisement.
Pub guy: Ooops.
(Scene fades to new meeting)
Boss: So we have a NEW advertisement guy. Whats up?
New pub guy: Well we extended the adds. They are so long even traveling ships at 50 times the speed of sound can read them. It cost 45
billion dollarsto set up 10 adds.
Boss: Its a little costly, but itll be worth it!
(Scene fades to next meeting.)
New pub guy: Huh boss, their is a little problem. A ship rammed in the advertisement. The US governement sues us for 10 billion dollars for destruction of a spaceship, 15 billion dollars for causing involuntarily the death of 200 people. Plus the families sue us personnaly for 1 billion dollars each. We are sued for a total of 225 billion dollars.
Finance guy: Because of our adds in space, we have 12 billion left.
Boss (to new pub guy): You DUMBASS!!!!!!!!!
(Scene fades away to you stopping to read my message)
TOAODS
jfrazier posted 12-08-98 07:34 PM ET
Hey, Darkangel, that was great!! You should write that up for a humorous article!
Really, what the hell. If it is that important, gooooo for it. Advertise, advertise, advertise, but please, whatever we do as a nation, lets have some type of agreement that lets the common taxpayer off the hook when there is a lawsuit, if you know what I mean. Some type of anti-lawsuit policy>>>????
Jeff
Ceasar of the Stars
Abdiel posted 12-09-98 04:14 AM ET
THere is already a prize being offered for the first private enterprise to put a person in space (and presumably to bring them back alive) I'm not sure how big the prize is, and I can't remember who is ofering, though.
Antiam posted 12-09-98 05:50 PM ET
Abdiel is right... they also have to launch the same vehicle again in under a month or two.
Antiam
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Author	Topic: OuterSpace
Steel_Dragon	posted 12-07-98 12:35 PM ET I wanted to spread a few ideas. One: From the Scifi channal: The government should sponsor contest to get private citizens to space. This would maybe lead to five or six groups trying to win, each spending 3-4 million in order to win say 10 million. That means to economy would get 15 to 24 million of growth for 10 million government dollars. Second the governments(US and Others) should renouce the no territory in space laws. So that homesteaders in space could receive a government back piece of land, say on the Moon or claim an entire Astroid, provide they were actually there.
DJ RRebel	posted 12-07-98 02:37 PM ET Personally, I think even here on Earth we should be nationless (well, make that one planetary nation) !!! I think we have important delemas when it comes to space exploration !!! What is going on now with the international space station is great !!! What would be my ideal situation, is that a planetary space agency be created, (maybe under the UN), that would be responsible for anything off-planet !!! Anyone could ask for access to certain off-planet territories (wether on the moon, mars or an asteroid), but the data obtained would be open for everyone back on earth !!! The moment we start drawing borders in space, is the moment we lose sight of what it's all about !!! Holy crappers, I'm getting awfully philisophical today !!!
Spoe	posted 12-07-98 03:42 PM ET Not to be pedantic(me? no, never.), but ITYM "countries", DJ, not "nations". The difference? Germans are a nation, Germany is a country. Anyway, I'm not so sure a single world government is such a good idea(at least until humanity has colonized other worlds in sufficient numbers); there would be outside influence to correct the wrongs of the government. And there will be. It is inherant to the nature of government(regardless of its form; I assume you've seen the US crytography proposals out there) to grab power and try to trod on the citizen.
Brother Greg	posted 12-07-98 06:43 PM ET Actually in the last two weeks I have heard two strange ideas. One is a company that is sending a probe out to an asteroid that appears every 33 years or so. They claim that if their probe gets near the asteroid, they will "own" it. The second is the next Mars mission. A firm in Europe (from memory) is planning on landing a scientific probe on Mars, but there's a catch. They want to fund it via advertising. "Huh?" I hear you say. (Well, maybe not, they don't have realaudio on this forum ) What they plan on doing is selling the first advertising on Mars. The balloons that are to be used to cushion the fall of the module/probe will have advertising on the outside, the premise being that the expedition will be well publicised, and therefore a good advertising scheme. Isn't this sad that first of all we have companies attempting to claim an asteroid, and from what I heard under international law they will be able to do so. And secondly, we haven't even landed a man on Mars yet, but we are going to be littering it with advertising. Now is it just me, or is it getting to the stage where companies are making the laws, while governments sit back and rake in the kickbacks? IMHO the Galaxy should be declared the biggest "World Heritage Area" (a misnomer, I know) ever, and we should limit any interference to scientific purposes only. One day man rapes the world, the next the galaxy... =( Is man's evolution along the lines of: Infancy: lives in harmony with the world and the universe. Teens: rapes the world, lives in harmony with the universe. Mid Life: The world is exhausted, so man rapes the universe. Old Age: Wonders why there's nothing left... And it's funny, I don't consider myself a greenie. Also, pardon the use of the word "rape", but that is in effect what we are doing!
DHE_X2	posted 12-07-98 06:55 PM ET Actually, I think private companies should be able to advertise, etc. Anything that persuades the public to fund space exploration is, imho, good. As for borders, whoever gets there first should own it and be able to set borders, but actions in the claimed territory must be legal. Bg, the universe is nigh on infinite. By the time we use up the resources in the solar system, we will surely be able to colonize new systems. As for using up resources at all, recycling technologies and more efficient energy production will prevent resources from being wasted. When you think about it, earth has plenty of resources and space left(turn to the seas, we could make use of the other 70% of the earth's surface.), though fossil fuels are lacking.
Victor Galis	posted 12-07-98 07:53 PM ET I'm afraid that littering mars with advertsiments is now necesarry. No country is willing to do enough to attempt to colonize space. It may take private companies to achieve anything like the Unity anytime soon. (Which is sad, but necesary.) Anything that promotes space exploration is good. My conclusion: We need another Cold War! If we had another Cold War then we could have another space race.
DHE_X2	posted 12-07-98 07:56 PM ET True. Peace breeds apathy, which is quite sad, since it gives the damn hawks another reason to start a meaningless war. ~DHE, been listening to Black Sabbath's "War Pigs" too long.
bio_spacer	posted 12-07-98 08:19 PM ET hey its me again! i agree with "brother greg" in that the companies seem to becomming more powerfull than the governments. that would be like in a trilogy i read about the colonization and independece of Mars. they r calles Red mars, Green Mars, and Blue Mars. they r VERY good books and i reconmend them to everyone who like sci-fi.
Steel_Dragon	posted 12-08-98 12:01 PM ET The reason I said there should be territory in space is that a citizen hopefully not companies can go to Mars, the Moon, an astriod or any other planet and feel safe becuase their government is behind them. A clearing house through the UN would be a good idea. That each person get plot a of simalar size on each body. It hopefully could be turned ino an econmic war, who could get there first. But in a hunderd years it would matter becuase the off-worlds would become independant. Maybe thats why the Governments don't want to become Imperists. But the winner still gets a hunderd or so years of wealth.
Titan	posted 12-08-98 05:58 PM ET Steel Dragon, with the new shuttle that the NASA is working on, the X-33, a private citizen will be able, at a high cost though, to buy himself, a trip in space. I do not think that your contest would be very rentable, though.
Steel_Dragon	posted 12-08-98 07:04 PM ET New contest next party on the Moon wins a x billion(S) from the US government. Rules: 1. must have atleast one US citizen in party. 2. twenty-five percent of Raw materials must be of US orgin 3. Fifty percent of Manufature must be done in US. Depending on the size of x, investors would poor out of the wood to support teams. And even the lossing team could be a viable space exploration corpation. I think it would work.
jfrazier	posted 12-08-98 07:22 PM ET I would hate to see space being partitioned. However, as all in this thread know, capitalism and free market competition will "speed up" the process in settling space. These damn big conglomerates have to have something to shoot for: advertisment, ownership, abuse of its already poor employees, you name it. Now, the motivation is to get in to space and not only claim what you land on, but to exploit it. sounds like a chance to start off doing something good turning evil, if you know what I mean. Unfortunately, the voters in the western world nations just don't get behind their gov't to support more space exploration. I know its expensive, but if any of us had a chance to vote on a .10cent tax increase on more janitorial service or space exploration, we would take the space in a second.Uh??? Jeff Ceasar of the Stars
The One And Only DarkStar	posted 12-08-98 07:23 PM ET Own space? I couldn't care less. See why. (Scene of me typing on SMAC forum fades to big company meeting.) Boss: So, Publicity manager, whats up in your domain. Pub guy: Well, we put advertisements on asteroid. It cost us 45 million dollars to send probes to 20 asteroids. They all have attached to them some adds. Boss: And who will see them. Pub guy: Well people who stay in the asteroid fields. In the X-33 at 14 times the speed of sound, travelers wont see them. So its mainly scientists guys that search metal. Boss: You dumbass!!! You know those geeks have all been brainwashed by Star Trek 2 series. They are all communists now. They dont care for advertisement. Pub guy: Ooops. (Scene fades to new meeting) Boss: So we have a NEW advertisement guy. Whats up? New pub guy: Well we extended the adds. They are so long even traveling ships at 50 times the speed of sound can read them. It cost 45 billion dollarsto set up 10 adds. Boss: Its a little costly, but itll be worth it! (Scene fades to next meeting.) New pub guy: Huh boss, their is a little problem. A ship rammed in the advertisement. The US governement sues us for 10 billion dollars for destruction of a spaceship, 15 billion dollars for causing involuntarily the death of 200 people. Plus the families sue us personnaly for 1 billion dollars each. We are sued for a total of 225 billion dollars. Finance guy: Because of our adds in space, we have 12 billion left. Boss (to new pub guy): You DUMBASS!!!!!!!!! (Scene fades away to you stopping to read my message) TOAODS
jfrazier	posted 12-08-98 07:34 PM ET Hey, Darkangel, that was great!! You should write that up for a humorous article! Really, what the hell. If it is that important, gooooo for it. Advertise, advertise, advertise, but please, whatever we do as a nation, lets have some type of agreement that lets the common taxpayer off the hook when there is a lawsuit, if you know what I mean. Some type of anti-lawsuit policy>>>???? Jeff Ceasar of the Stars
Abdiel	posted 12-09-98 04:14 AM ET THere is already a prize being offered for the first private enterprise to put a person in space (and presumably to bring them back alive) I'm not sure how big the prize is, and I can't remember who is ofering, though.
Antiam	posted 12-09-98 05:50 PM ET Abdiel is right... they also have to launch the same vehicle again in under a month or two. Antiam