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Author Topic:   a better world

Thue posted 12-06-98 12:05 PM ET
Wouldn't it be cool if the world was modelled as a globe, like in the new populous. It would make the possible movements more realistic!
I cant see how you could do it with square fields, but if you used hexagonal fields it may work out. I think it would make the game much better!
RM posted 12-06-98 12:56 PM ET
A spherical map would not be possible with hexagons, only a mix of hexagons and pentagons. This would cause some unwanted irregularity in the map.
Another option would be to make globe with triangles instead of squares, but this would also be irregular, since some corners of the triangles would be connected to more triangles than others.
The biggest problem with the irregularities would be the city radiuses, that would vary depending on what shape of tile you place it on and how many tiles that are next to it.
Another would be that the irregularities could change the tactical value of the tile. (Tiles with fewer neighbouring tiles would probably be easier to defend.)
OmniDude posted 12-07-98 08:40 AM ET
Wouldn't it be possible to make a sphere out of pentagons? Consider a soccer ball....
Anyway, I would say that irregularities would be welcome. In the real world some places are more attractive than others, too.
RM posted 12-07-98 10:31 AM ET
A sphere out of pentagons is possible, but only if it is made from exactly 12 pentagons.
Yes, some places are more attractive than others, but I would prefer this was implemented by different terraintypes rather than a bad fit of tiles. I guess I could live with it, for a more realistic world representation near the poles.
I like the idea of a spherical map very much. It could be done in different ways. By using triangles as tiles, you could make a globe with a minimum of 4 irregularities on the map, but with more irregularities, it would be less irregular at the places it were irregular on. If the irregularities were fitted in so they were somewhere in the middle of seas, I guess irregularities wouldn't matter much, but it would restrict the random maps a bit.
I am not familiar with soccer ball design, since I don't play soccer, but I think they are made from both pentagons and hexagons.
There was a really good discussion about this before the board crashed. I hope we can get the discussion started again.
DJ RRebel posted 12-07-98 03:52 PM ET
Actually, the real solution to this lies in eradicating "tiles" all together !!!
Get rid of the concept of a map grid !!!
Imagine a sphere with a billion little "tiles" ... cities and units would have a certain size, but their movement would be measured by distance (ie Miles or KM), every 'tile" would represent 1/20th of a mile or whatever the base size was !!! So, if the bottom of a city or unit space were 20 tiles, and the top were 19 (obviously reversed in the southern hemisphere), the difference would not be noticable in terms of game play!!!
Of course, you'd be stressing you CPU big time for those kind of computations !!!
Grosshaus posted 12-07-98 04:07 PM ET
Damn you RRebell, I was just about to suggest the same thing. Anyways, hopefully the computers around the time SMAC II comes out will have enough power for that kind of solution. At least it would make the game more realistic, when crossing poles would also be possible. With subs that was actually quite important during the Cold War and at least I would use it.
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Author	Topic: a better world
Thue	posted 12-06-98 12:05 PM ET Wouldn't it be cool if the world was modelled as a globe, like in the new populous. It would make the possible movements more realistic! I cant see how you could do it with square fields, but if you used hexagonal fields it may work out. I think it would make the game much better!
RM	posted 12-06-98 12:56 PM ET A spherical map would not be possible with hexagons, only a mix of hexagons and pentagons. This would cause some unwanted irregularity in the map. Another option would be to make globe with triangles instead of squares, but this would also be irregular, since some corners of the triangles would be connected to more triangles than others. The biggest problem with the irregularities would be the city radiuses, that would vary depending on what shape of tile you place it on and how many tiles that are next to it. Another would be that the irregularities could change the tactical value of the tile. (Tiles with fewer neighbouring tiles would probably be easier to defend.)
OmniDude	posted 12-07-98 08:40 AM ET Wouldn't it be possible to make a sphere out of pentagons? Consider a soccer ball.... Anyway, I would say that irregularities would be welcome. In the real world some places are more attractive than others, too.
RM	posted 12-07-98 10:31 AM ET A sphere out of pentagons is possible, but only if it is made from exactly 12 pentagons. Yes, some places are more attractive than others, but I would prefer this was implemented by different terraintypes rather than a bad fit of tiles. I guess I could live with it, for a more realistic world representation near the poles. I like the idea of a spherical map very much. It could be done in different ways. By using triangles as tiles, you could make a globe with a minimum of 4 irregularities on the map, but with more irregularities, it would be less irregular at the places it were irregular on. If the irregularities were fitted in so they were somewhere in the middle of seas, I guess irregularities wouldn't matter much, but it would restrict the random maps a bit. I am not familiar with soccer ball design, since I don't play soccer, but I think they are made from both pentagons and hexagons. There was a really good discussion about this before the board crashed. I hope we can get the discussion started again.
DJ RRebel	posted 12-07-98 03:52 PM ET Actually, the real solution to this lies in eradicating "tiles" all together !!! Get rid of the concept of a map grid !!! Imagine a sphere with a billion little "tiles" ... cities and units would have a certain size, but their movement would be measured by distance (ie Miles or KM), every 'tile" would represent 1/20th of a mile or whatever the base size was !!! So, if the bottom of a city or unit space were 20 tiles, and the top were 19 (obviously reversed in the southern hemisphere), the difference would not be noticable in terms of game play!!! Of course, you'd be stressing you CPU big time for those kind of computations !!!
Grosshaus	posted 12-07-98 04:07 PM ET Damn you RRebell, I was just about to suggest the same thing. Anyways, hopefully the computers around the time SMAC II comes out will have enough power for that kind of solution. At least it would make the game more realistic, when crossing poles would also be possible. With subs that was actually quite important during the Cold War and at least I would use it.