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The One And Only DarkStar posted 12-01-98 11:56 AM ET
DAmn, I tought we would get out of hell, but we are back in a PQ nightmare. If the ADQ wouldnt have been there, maybe the PLQ would have won.
Sorry if you don`t care about this, but i am sure Quebecers on this forum will have something to say.�
TOAODS
DJ RRebel posted 12-01-98 12:07 PM ET
Actually, I'm in Montreal, and I'm not so disappointed !!! The Liberals did better than I thought they would !!!
Just a review for those of you who are actually interested:
Quebec has 125 riding (124 were decided last night, the last will be delayed because of a death).
Of the 124 ridings:
the Parti Quebecois (a.k.a. Seperatist party) won 75 seats,
the Liberals won 48 seats,
and a 3rd party (ADQ) won 1 seat !!!
Yet the overall percentages look very different:
Lib: 43.7%
PQ : 42.7%
ADQ: 11.?%
Oth: <2.0%
So the Liberals actually won overall !!!
With this being said, the PQ will not have enough support if they decide to hold another referendum for seperation !!!
The referendum on seperation is a overall population vote, and has nothing to do with representation !!!
OK .. Go ahead .. ask your questions !!!
By the way .. LOL .. just to get things started, I voted Liberal, I love Canada and hate the idea of it being taken apart, especially for reallly stupid reasons !!!
DJ RRebel posted 12-01-98 12:35 PM ET
BTW, I hope you voted !!!
Roland posted 12-01-98 12:39 PM ET
Does assimilition make you elligable to vote ?
BTW, CNN last had PQ:Liberals 47:41. What's going on ? How would they get so many more mandates, even under first-pass-the-post (or whatever they pass...) if the liberals had more votes ?
DJ RRebel posted 12-01-98 12:49 PM ET
Because the non-liberal vote (non-seperatist) is concentrated in Montreal, so in Montreal, the Liberals win 20 seats by 80-90% each, but then in the hicks, the PQ win 50 seats with 50-55% of the votes !!!
This really sucks for the overall population!!!
I feel like my vote is less important than the hicks, when in fact, it is my taxes that pay for their welfare and unemployment !!!
Regardsless, the PQ only got 42.7% of the over all vote !!!
Although it was not as strong as I wished for, the tide is slowly turning away from seperatism !!! (I hope)
Roland >>> You better have voted, but I hope you informed yourself on the issues before voting !!!
By the way, it was a relatively low turnout for the vote for some bizare reason !!!
Only 78% of eligible voters voted .. last referendum had about a 95% turn out !!!
The no to seperation won 51% to 49% .. let me tell you, that's a night I'll never forget !!!
Roland posted 12-01-98 12:54 PM ET
Gee, I've all my information from you, DJ. Could that be somewhat...ehm... "opinionated" (if that's a word at all).
CNN had the result I mentioned and 90 % voter turnout. But I guess you should know better. Are those CNN guys nuts, or what ? Do they want to be like Microsoft ?
DJ RRebel posted 12-01-98 12:56 PM ET
Roland, as far as I know the figures were as follows:
Name - %%%% - # of seats in National Assembly
Liberals - 43.7% - 48 seats
Parti Quebecois - 42.7% - 75 seats
Action Democratique du Quebec - 11.6% - 1 seat !!!
Others - 1.9% - 0 seats
The ADQ got 11.6 of the popular vote, yet only got .8% of the seats .. that really sucks!
the seats are important in almost everything, but the final vote for seperation would go to a referendum of the entire province, one person = 1 equal vote, so I think the worst is over, but only time will tell !!!
The silly thing is, that although there are many other differences, on the other issues, I think both could do equally well, it's like having to copies of the same party, but one wants seperation and the other doesn't !!!
DJ RRebel posted 12-01-98 01:03 PM ET
No, it was definately a 78% turn-out, very low for Quebec .. this will an incredible timeframe for our history books in 50 years !!!
As for my opinionated view, I took the time to weigh each side, unfortunately, most seperatists (with some exeption) don't actually have a concrete reason for seperating, aside for the standard "I want my own country", or the really stupid one, " I don't want my kids to grow up in English", the stupid part about that, is that they are the same people who watch "American" movies, TV and everything else. They seem blind to the fact that English is the language of choice used in the global economy .. that any nation that doesn't at least speak English in the future will be left behind in the dust !!!
Anyways, ask Phillipe for the seperatist point of view .. I'm sure he'll come up with what he thinks is a good reason or two !!!
CClark posted 12-01-98 01:05 PM ET
The spin that the CBC's analysts put on things is that Charest (Liberal leader) hasn't done anything to prove himself to the people so he didn't get as many votes as he might have had he been the leader for more than a few months. Lucien (Bloc leader) was voted back in for the reforms to health care etc. that his government has made more than for the Separatist issue. The analyst was also saying that with the closeness in the popular vote, there's no way that Lucien will risk another referendum too soon.
The dollar started up on the day but is now down a little bit. Of course, all the markets are down a bit today so it looks like the election hasn't had a big effect on the economy (today).
DJ RRebel posted 12-01-98 02:45 PM ET
As I said, this is somewhat of a stalemate, although, the momentum the seperatists have had over the last few years has finally stopped and begun to fall back on itself !!!
Anyways, I'm off to play some CIV2, I'll just picture my adversaries as seperatists and seperate their existance from the face of the Earth !!!
The One And Only DarkStar posted 12-01-98 03:10 PM ET
At least, Bouchard said he would do a referendum under WINNING conditions. The vote showa that he has NOT the support for winning conditions. So we do not have to fear a referendum, unless Bouchard lied, which would not surprise me from a such good politician as he is...
TOAODS... NO SEPARATION FOR ME!!!!!!!!!!!!
Imran Siddiqui posted 12-01-98 03:16 PM ET
Is DJ right? The only reason Quebec wants to seperate is so their kids don't grow up English or they want their own nation. That's silly. Quebec probably couldn't survive as its own nation. It needs Canada for raw materials and stuff. After all Quebec isn't part of NAFTA, and I doubt the US will give them free-trade. I also agree with the English thing. I mean like 90% of the Internet is English!! English is the world language; it is spoken on every continent.
Imran Siddiqui
Patriot
Foxtaur posted 12-01-98 03:32 PM ET
Just a quick comment from a guy living in Southern Ontario...
For all these years, I thought that what the Seperatists wanted was independence from Canada, their own nation. Which I wasn't really opposed to, if that's what the Quebecois wanted.
But, I recently read about a slip-of-the-tongue made by a prominent member of the PQ... and it turns out that the Seperatists /don't/ want a seperate Quebec. What they /really/ want is to use the /threat/ of secession to force concessions from the rest of Canada - milking it for as much booty as they can get away with.

I'm now tempted to have Canada accept the PQ's bluff, and actually encourage them to seperate...

Of course, we now get into double-think, because that may be exactly what the PQ /does/ want, after all, that the slip-of-the-tongue was a carefully calculated move to get the rest of Canada to willingly let Quebec seperate. Isn't politics wonderful?
DJ RRebel posted 12-01-98 03:56 PM ET
Foxtour, that will not work, it will only serve the PQ as ammunition !!! Tehy'll say .. look Canada doesn't even want us .. let's go !!!
The threat of seperation is real and dangerously bleack on our futures !!! The only way to get through this is to be nice, and ask questions .. half the seperatists I talk to can't give me a good viable reason for seperation !!!
Going back to previous posts, the whole language thing isn't the only reason, but many people think that !!! Out of the 49% who voted for seperation, I'd say 20% of them are for language, another 10% even more pathetic group, just because it's what they grew up with and they don't think about it or debate it !!! That leaves only 19% (OK I could be a little off but even a small difference would kill the whole debate once and for all !!!), 19% of seperatists have what is in their minds is a good political reason for seperation !!!
BTW, most of those seperatists don't necissarily want more powers than the other provinces, they just want more powers, if that means all the provinces get more powers too, then it is really no big deal to them !!!
It just upsets me to see people vote for anything when they really don't grasp the concequences !!!
CClark posted 12-01-98 04:53 PM ET
Oh, let's be honest. French people are just ornery morons. Look at France. They go off and blow up nuclear bombs in the Pacific despite the fact that the rest of the world was saying "Don't do it".
The only reason that the Quebecois want to separate is that they think it will annoy the rest of Canada. Let's face it, they're still angry about having their butts kicked by Wolfe and then being sold down the river by France.
I liked Rick Mercer's line in his rant last night on 22 Minutes. Let's give the Quebecers a push to separate because "it'll hurt them a lot more than it will huirt us".
(Acutally, I have family in Montreal on my Dad's side and quite a few roots there. I really have nothing against the French but they've been dragging this stupid thing on for so long it's getting even more tedious than that whole Clinton sex thing. It's at the point of "who really cares anymore!")
CClark posted 12-01-98 04:54 PM ET
Hey DJ, ya know what we need? Some way to make a maple leaf like the smilies. I wonder what it would take to get a maple leaf graphic like the smiley graphic added in? Then we could really make this board look attractive, eh?
(Oh god, my second pointless post in the hour... It must be contagious!)
DJ RRebel posted 12-02-98 04:43 AM ET
I agree with the maple leaf idea !!!
Anyways, as I said, i have found that most (not all) seperatists don't have a viable reason for supporting seperation !!! Anyways, I think you know my point !!!
Gord McLeod posted 12-02-98 05:08 AM ET
I haven't lived in Quebec since I was 6, but it's my understanding that it's more than just the langauge that some of the separatists want, it's the whole preservation of culture idea. There seems to be some feeling that the Quebec distinctiveness is threatened by English influence, and so the resistance to change was growing slowly but steadily. I'm pretty damn encouraged to see that it might FINALLY be leveling out, and not a moment too soon... I'll just keep my fingers crossed that it stays that way, or receeds, even.
DJ RRebel posted 12-02-98 05:13 AM ET
Gord, you are right, not all of seperatists want to seperate for language, but many do, that group makes the difference between a close 50-50, and a 70-30 .. at 70-30, the debate wouldn't even be credible !!!
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey posted 12-02-98 06:44 PM ET
I'm glad I read this thread. The only basic thing the newspapers told me here was that the seperatists won the election for the most part. But, still had only 43% of the popular vote, so a referendum for secesion would fail. That's it, basically! Thanks DJ & others for keeping me better informed than the stupid papers! Well, a secession would be dumb now, Quebec has the highest poverty rates of all the prvinces, it would literally shatter the economy.
I should call my great aunt in Quebec & ask her who she voted for, or if she voted at all. She is kinda old, she's gotten fined a few times because she can't cut her grass.
BTW, If Quebec secedes, why won't your PM try & stop them with a Civil War. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard. You got all the rest of Canada, against Quebec! It might take a bit though, but it'll look dumb on a map seeing a country in between the two pieces that are left in Canada.
Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general,
YYYH
Victor Galis posted 12-02-98 10:06 PM ET
The PM would never do something like that. While it seems like a good thing to do, it only make the quebecqois think that they are under English domination.
Glad to hear some good news from the homeland,
Vive le Canada!
DJ RRebel posted 12-03-98 01:17 AM ET
LOL .. actually, that in itself is a whole other can of worms !!!
Our Prime Minister (Jean Chretien) is actually from Quebec .. LOL !!!
I wonder what would happen if we did seperate ??? He would have to resign !!!
Actually, his seat would become null and void !!! ???�???
Does anyone know if this issue was previouly addressed ???
Krikkit One posted 12-03-98 02:21 AM ET
Well as an American Republican (and believer that Lincoln was the best tyrant we've had). I'm glad about Quebec. I always thought that in a constitutional democracy (where majority rules and minorities are protected) that there is no justification for seperation except in the most extreme cases.
DJ RRebel posted 12-03-98 03:13 AM ET
I agree, and as an extreme case does not exist, I don't want seperation !!!
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Author	Topic: Elections in Quebec
The One And Only DarkStar	posted 12-01-98 11:56 AM ET DAmn, I tought we would get out of hell, but we are back in a PQ nightmare. If the ADQ wouldnt have been there, maybe the PLQ would have won. Sorry if you don`t care about this, but i am sure Quebecers on this forum will have something to say.� TOAODS
DJ RRebel	posted 12-01-98 12:07 PM ET Actually, I'm in Montreal, and I'm not so disappointed !!! The Liberals did better than I thought they would !!! Just a review for those of you who are actually interested: Quebec has 125 riding (124 were decided last night, the last will be delayed because of a death). Of the 124 ridings: the Parti Quebecois (a.k.a. Seperatist party) won 75 seats, the Liberals won 48 seats, and a 3rd party (ADQ) won 1 seat !!! Yet the overall percentages look very different: Lib: 43.7% PQ : 42.7% ADQ: 11.?% Oth: <2.0% So the Liberals actually won overall !!! With this being said, the PQ will not have enough support if they decide to hold another referendum for seperation !!! The referendum on seperation is a overall population vote, and has nothing to do with representation !!! OK .. Go ahead .. ask your questions !!! By the way .. LOL .. just to get things started, I voted Liberal, I love Canada and hate the idea of it being taken apart, especially for reallly stupid reasons !!!
DJ RRebel	posted 12-01-98 12:35 PM ET BTW, I hope you voted !!!
Roland	posted 12-01-98 12:39 PM ET Does assimilition make you elligable to vote ? BTW, CNN last had PQ:Liberals 47:41. What's going on ? How would they get so many more mandates, even under first-pass-the-post (or whatever they pass...) if the liberals had more votes ?
DJ RRebel	posted 12-01-98 12:49 PM ET Because the non-liberal vote (non-seperatist) is concentrated in Montreal, so in Montreal, the Liberals win 20 seats by 80-90% each, but then in the hicks, the PQ win 50 seats with 50-55% of the votes !!! This really sucks for the overall population!!! I feel like my vote is less important than the hicks, when in fact, it is my taxes that pay for their welfare and unemployment !!! Regardsless, the PQ only got 42.7% of the over all vote !!! Although it was not as strong as I wished for, the tide is slowly turning away from seperatism !!! (I hope) Roland >>> You better have voted, but I hope you informed yourself on the issues before voting !!! By the way, it was a relatively low turnout for the vote for some bizare reason !!! Only 78% of eligible voters voted .. last referendum had about a 95% turn out !!! The no to seperation won 51% to 49% .. let me tell you, that's a night I'll never forget !!!
Roland	posted 12-01-98 12:54 PM ET Gee, I've all my information from you, DJ. Could that be somewhat...ehm... "opinionated" (if that's a word at all). CNN had the result I mentioned and 90 % voter turnout. But I guess you should know better. Are those CNN guys nuts, or what ? Do they want to be like Microsoft ?
DJ RRebel	posted 12-01-98 12:56 PM ET Roland, as far as I know the figures were as follows: Name - %%%% - # of seats in National Assembly Liberals - 43.7% - 48 seats Parti Quebecois - 42.7% - 75 seats Action Democratique du Quebec - 11.6% - 1 seat !!! Others - 1.9% - 0 seats The ADQ got 11.6 of the popular vote, yet only got .8% of the seats .. that really sucks! the seats are important in almost everything, but the final vote for seperation would go to a referendum of the entire province, one person = 1 equal vote, so I think the worst is over, but only time will tell !!! The silly thing is, that although there are many other differences, on the other issues, I think both could do equally well, it's like having to copies of the same party, but one wants seperation and the other doesn't !!!
DJ RRebel	posted 12-01-98 01:03 PM ET No, it was definately a 78% turn-out, very low for Quebec .. this will an incredible timeframe for our history books in 50 years !!! As for my opinionated view, I took the time to weigh each side, unfortunately, most seperatists (with some exeption) don't actually have a concrete reason for seperating, aside for the standard "I want my own country", or the really stupid one, " I don't want my kids to grow up in English", the stupid part about that, is that they are the same people who watch "American" movies, TV and everything else. They seem blind to the fact that English is the language of choice used in the global economy .. that any nation that doesn't at least speak English in the future will be left behind in the dust !!! Anyways, ask Phillipe for the seperatist point of view .. I'm sure he'll come up with what he thinks is a good reason or two !!!
CClark	posted 12-01-98 01:05 PM ET The spin that the CBC's analysts put on things is that Charest (Liberal leader) hasn't done anything to prove himself to the people so he didn't get as many votes as he might have had he been the leader for more than a few months. Lucien (Bloc leader) was voted back in for the reforms to health care etc. that his government has made more than for the Separatist issue. The analyst was also saying that with the closeness in the popular vote, there's no way that Lucien will risk another referendum too soon. The dollar started up on the day but is now down a little bit. Of course, all the markets are down a bit today so it looks like the election hasn't had a big effect on the economy (today).
DJ RRebel	posted 12-01-98 02:45 PM ET As I said, this is somewhat of a stalemate, although, the momentum the seperatists have had over the last few years has finally stopped and begun to fall back on itself !!! Anyways, I'm off to play some CIV2, I'll just picture my adversaries as seperatists and seperate their existance from the face of the Earth !!!
The One And Only DarkStar	posted 12-01-98 03:10 PM ET At least, Bouchard said he would do a referendum under WINNING conditions. The vote showa that he has NOT the support for winning conditions. So we do not have to fear a referendum, unless Bouchard lied, which would not surprise me from a such good politician as he is... TOAODS... NO SEPARATION FOR ME!!!!!!!!!!!!
Imran Siddiqui	posted 12-01-98 03:16 PM ET Is DJ right? The only reason Quebec wants to seperate is so their kids don't grow up English or they want their own nation. That's silly. Quebec probably couldn't survive as its own nation. It needs Canada for raw materials and stuff. After all Quebec isn't part of NAFTA, and I doubt the US will give them free-trade. I also agree with the English thing. I mean like 90% of the Internet is English!! English is the world language; it is spoken on every continent. Imran Siddiqui Patriot
Foxtaur	posted 12-01-98 03:32 PM ET Just a quick comment from a guy living in Southern Ontario... For all these years, I thought that what the Seperatists wanted was independence from Canada, their own nation. Which I wasn't really opposed to, if that's what the Quebecois wanted. But, I recently read about a slip-of-the-tongue made by a prominent member of the PQ... and it turns out that the Seperatists /don't/ want a seperate Quebec. What they /really/ want is to use the /threat/ of secession to force concessions from the rest of Canada - milking it for as much booty as they can get away with. I'm now tempted to have Canada accept the PQ's bluff, and actually encourage them to seperate... Of course, we now get into double-think, because that may be exactly what the PQ /does/ want, after all, that the slip-of-the-tongue was a carefully calculated move to get the rest of Canada to willingly let Quebec seperate. Isn't politics wonderful?
DJ RRebel	posted 12-01-98 03:56 PM ET Foxtour, that will not work, it will only serve the PQ as ammunition !!! Tehy'll say .. look Canada doesn't even want us .. let's go !!! The threat of seperation is real and dangerously bleack on our futures !!! The only way to get through this is to be nice, and ask questions .. half the seperatists I talk to can't give me a good viable reason for seperation !!! Going back to previous posts, the whole language thing isn't the only reason, but many people think that !!! Out of the 49% who voted for seperation, I'd say 20% of them are for language, another 10% even more pathetic group, just because it's what they grew up with and they don't think about it or debate it !!! That leaves only 19% (OK I could be a little off but even a small difference would kill the whole debate once and for all !!!), 19% of seperatists have what is in their minds is a good political reason for seperation !!! BTW, most of those seperatists don't necissarily want more powers than the other provinces, they just want more powers, if that means all the provinces get more powers too, then it is really no big deal to them !!! It just upsets me to see people vote for anything when they really don't grasp the concequences !!!
CClark	posted 12-01-98 04:53 PM ET Oh, let's be honest. French people are just ornery morons. Look at France. They go off and blow up nuclear bombs in the Pacific despite the fact that the rest of the world was saying "Don't do it". The only reason that the Quebecois want to separate is that they think it will annoy the rest of Canada. Let's face it, they're still angry about having their butts kicked by Wolfe and then being sold down the river by France. I liked Rick Mercer's line in his rant last night on 22 Minutes. Let's give the Quebecers a push to separate because "it'll hurt them a lot more than it will huirt us". (Acutally, I have family in Montreal on my Dad's side and quite a few roots there. I really have nothing against the French but they've been dragging this stupid thing on for so long it's getting even more tedious than that whole Clinton sex thing. It's at the point of "who really cares anymore!")
CClark	posted 12-01-98 04:54 PM ET Hey DJ, ya know what we need? Some way to make a maple leaf like the smilies. I wonder what it would take to get a maple leaf graphic like the smiley graphic added in? Then we could really make this board look attractive, eh? (Oh god, my second pointless post in the hour... It must be contagious!)
DJ RRebel	posted 12-02-98 04:43 AM ET I agree with the maple leaf idea !!! Anyways, as I said, i have found that most (not all) seperatists don't have a viable reason for supporting seperation !!! Anyways, I think you know my point !!!
Gord McLeod	posted 12-02-98 05:08 AM ET I haven't lived in Quebec since I was 6, but it's my understanding that it's more than just the langauge that some of the separatists want, it's the whole preservation of culture idea. There seems to be some feeling that the Quebec distinctiveness is threatened by English influence, and so the resistance to change was growing slowly but steadily. I'm pretty damn encouraged to see that it might FINALLY be leveling out, and not a moment too soon... I'll just keep my fingers crossed that it stays that way, or receeds, even.
DJ RRebel	posted 12-02-98 05:13 AM ET Gord, you are right, not all of seperatists want to seperate for language, but many do, that group makes the difference between a close 50-50, and a 70-30 .. at 70-30, the debate wouldn't even be credible !!!
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey	posted 12-02-98 06:44 PM ET I'm glad I read this thread. The only basic thing the newspapers told me here was that the seperatists won the election for the most part. But, still had only 43% of the popular vote, so a referendum for secesion would fail. That's it, basically! Thanks DJ & others for keeping me better informed than the stupid papers! Well, a secession would be dumb now, Quebec has the highest poverty rates of all the prvinces, it would literally shatter the economy. I should call my great aunt in Quebec & ask her who she voted for, or if she voted at all. She is kinda old, she's gotten fined a few times because she can't cut her grass. BTW, If Quebec secedes, why won't your PM try & stop them with a Civil War. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard. You got all the rest of Canada, against Quebec! It might take a bit though, but it'll look dumb on a map seeing a country in between the two pieces that are left in Canada. Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general, YYYH
Victor Galis	posted 12-02-98 10:06 PM ET The PM would never do something like that. While it seems like a good thing to do, it only make the quebecqois think that they are under English domination. Glad to hear some good news from the homeland, Vive le Canada!
DJ RRebel	posted 12-03-98 01:17 AM ET LOL .. actually, that in itself is a whole other can of worms !!! Our Prime Minister (Jean Chretien) is actually from Quebec .. LOL !!! I wonder what would happen if we did seperate ??? He would have to resign !!! Actually, his seat would become null and void !!! ???�??? Does anyone know if this issue was previouly addressed ???
Krikkit One	posted 12-03-98 02:21 AM ET Well as an American Republican (and believer that Lincoln was the best tyrant we've had). I'm glad about Quebec. I always thought that in a constitutional democracy (where majority rules and minorities are protected) that there is no justification for seperation except in the most extreme cases.
DJ RRebel	posted 12-03-98 03:13 AM ET I agree, and as an extreme case does not exist, I don't want seperation !!!