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Author Topic:   Is MOO2 Worth to buy ?

Aga1 posted 11-28-98 11:17 AM ET
I been looking at moo2 reviews and i find that smac and moo2 are almost the same.I know some pepole on the fourm have it and i ask is it worth to buy ?

DJ RRebel posted 11-28-98 11:20 AM ET
Aga1 .. I've heard alot about it too, I was thinking of getting it! But SMAC is too close now !!!
Anyone care to give us a few comparisons with MOO2, CIV2 & SMAC ???
Arnelos posted 11-28-98 02:18 PM ET
As an owner of MOO2 who spent a year on the MOO2 forums before the game came out, I can tell you a bit about the comparison:
First of all, they are NOT the same game. MOO2 is an interstellar inter-racial strategic game. You play a race that starts with your homeworld and expand to multiple systems and planets. The diplomacy system is much worse than the original MOO, but the patches help fix this.
SMAC is the development of 7 human factions in the imediate future (supposedly) on a single planet, Chiron (in the Alpha Centuari system). So the game is a strategy game on the surface of a planet between human factions, not an inter-stellar strat/war-game between multiple races in the very distant future.
If you only have the money for one and not both, I would HEAVILY suggest getting SMAC and not MOO2. MOO2 was a great concept, but it fell short in a lot of areas.
Octopus posted 11-28-98 03:11 PM ET
Arnelos is right, MOO2 and SMAC are very different games. I would recommend getting MOO2 if you could. It should be relatively inexpensive by now, since it is such an "old" game.
The big difference between MOO and Civ/SMAC is that Civ and SMAC take place on planets where geography is important (e.g. isthmuses, oceans, mountains, etc.) while in the two MOOs, all of the action takes place at the different stars in the galaxy, so it is hard to do things like surround someone. Also, the MOOs have a turn-based tactical combat resolution phase, where you get to move the ships you've designed and built around, seeing how effective your designs really are.
MOO2 had good points and bad points. In some ways it was an improvement over MOO1, but in some ways they ruined some of the things that made MOO1 so cool. MOO1 was a lot more abstract in things like colony management, and I preferred that. They added race customization in MOO2, though, which was really cool.
If you have to choose between SMAC and MOO2, get SMAC. If you have to choose between getting MOO2 and having nothing to do while you wait for SMAC, get MOO2. You'll probably enjoy it.
Imran Siddiqui posted 11-28-98 03:24 PM ET
I agree with Arnelos. MOO2 did fall short in many areas. I expected it to be, what it was called, Civilization in space. It wasn't as good as I though it was going to be, and I haven't played it that much.
Imran Siddiqui
Patriot
Spoe posted 11-28-98 03:44 PM ET
MOO2 is one of those games that for me has had a substantial shelf life. I still occasionally pull it down a play a few games. I do agree, though, that it fell short of my expectations(based on MOO) in several areas. Mainly colony management, and research. OTOH, getting rid of the 32k ship stacks was a good thing IMHO.
DJ RRebel posted 11-29-98 11:29 AM ET
So then which would you recommend out of MOO1 & MOO2 ???
And for those who don't have Civ1 or 2 (not me obviously), would you recomend MOO@ over Civ2 ???
Grosshaus posted 11-29-98 02:09 PM ET
Absolutely Civ2! In my opinion Moo2 is just a useless attempt to convert Moo1 to some weird copy of Civ2. I played Moo1 a lot when it was new and when my friend bought Moo2 I borrowed it for a weekend to try it out before bying it. Good thing I did because it sucks. You can never get a good idea of what your empire is like, if you play on a larger map. It just relies so heavily on micromanagement. And what is the point of playing in a galaxy of 20 stars?
Also it is far too easy. My second game I played on medium level. I conquered everyone in a flash, 'cos I chose telepathy and could conquer everyone oh so easily. After that I playd another game on hard and again I won too easily. This time I chose diplomatic and was elected in the first election. After that I chose subterranean ability and won again on first elections because I had a population double the others altogether.
I would recommend Moo2 to only amateurs and to them only if they like to spend endless hours on every detail.
Octopus posted 11-29-98 02:29 PM ET
"what is the point of playing in a galaxy of 20 stars"
Well, to state the obvious, the point of playing in a small galaxy (which was more than 20, I think) is too avoid some tedious micromanagement once your empire gets too large...
Yes, the game is somewhat unbalanced. When you are customizing your race, it is possible to create a race that is seriously overpowered. However, don't play the game just to win, play to have fun. Experiment with all of the different play styles. Try playing as a combat-intensive race and winning without ever doing any research. It can be quite a challenge.
The choice between MOO1 and MOO2 is difficult. MOO1 has some bugs in it (for example, every so often you will find that your enemies have stacks of 32000 ships, which is a very suspicious number from a binary point of view). On the other hand, MOO2 is a bit more like Civ in its colony management, which I found made the game worse. The tactical combat in MOO2 is more involved, because you get to move your ships around one-at-a-time instead of huge stacks. You also have things like shield facings and fighters. Both games suffer from a serious lack of AI, and I'm almost positive that the computer isn't playing by the same rules you are. All that said, though, they were both really fun games, and I spent hours and hours and hours playing both of them.
If either game had been done "right", I'd say that the MOOs would beat CivII in my opinion, but as it is CivII is a better game just because it was implemented well. If Firaxis were to ever make a game like MOO, I'd be after it more intently than I'm after SMAC.
0leg posted 11-30-98 05:31 PM ET
Grosshaus,
There are Moo2 editors in public domain which let you design AI races. This way you can play against superopponents (but very dumb anyway). It realy rejuveniled Moo2 for me and these days I enjoy it more than CivII which was my favorite before.
Or you can follow Octopus's suggestions and play uncreative repulsive race on impossible. The first and only time I won with that race was probably the most memorable game I ever had !
Sofielisk posted 11-30-98 06:38 PM ET
I like Moo 2 personally...
nice tech tree design, customisable races are good. However, I have only played it from a friend's computer so I am no expert on it I like it though
Must make more posts than Darklight! I am the CWALer who has posted the least! Must remedy awful situation by mad posting frenzy!
DJ RRebel posted 12-01-98 06:48 AM ET
Hmmmn .. ok .. thanks for the advice .. I think I'll wait for SMAC !!!
When did MOO1 & MOO2 get released anyways ???
OmniDude posted 12-01-98 07:20 AM ET
I really can't say which game I like more. I love tactical combat in MOO2, but as others have stated, CivII have the edge when it comes to overall playability.
At the risk of comitting heresy (do I use the term correctly?) I'll have to state that if a MOO3 was announced, I would anticipate that with as much - if not more - impatience as I do with MASC, sorry, SCAM, oops, I mean SMAC.
At any rate, IMO both of these games are ahead of the rest of the gaming world by quite a bit and these two are the only games that I have ever kept playing 2 months after purchasing them. And I still do...
Boskone on Toast posted 12-01-98 11:14 AM ET
I know it's probably not much use to most of you, but in Germany the full version of MOO2 has been given away as one of the coverdisks on GameStar magazine this month (Jan/99)
Just thought I'd let you know.
DJ RRebel posted 12-01-98 12:13 PM ET
Why are they giving away the game for free ???
Arnelos posted 12-01-98 05:52 PM ET
Oh my. . .
Elfi Wolfe posted 12-01-98 06:37 PM ET
Buy it.
Its a good game, little dated now.
Boskone on Toast posted 12-02-98 08:04 AM ET
It's something magazines here in Germany seem to do on a regular basis - give out full working versions of older games.
last month it was X-com terror from the deep, another decent game.
I don't know exactly why they do it but its a cool idea
Tapiolan poika posted 12-02-98 01:38 PM ET
Boskone: Damn, it's too long since I was in Germany - that makes me jealous. I wonder if I can get hold of Gamestar Magazine here in Stockholm...
On the other hand I already have MOO2... Hmm, it's OK, in other words...
But the concept!
Aga1: I love MOO2, in spite of its shortcomings (you just have to avoid choosing the races that make winning too easy...).
Another thing: MOO2 incorporates hotseat multiplayer! Great! Sadly that won't be included in SMAC...
Grosshaus posted 12-02-98 03:48 PM ET
Some things in MOO1 that should have been kept in MOO2:
The research was better, when you researched several things at the same time.
HUGE number of ships. Sometimes you could build a few hundred of small ships in a turn in some colonies, and when they could be commanded as on in tact. com. they were quite invincible.
Controlling the colonies quite generally, one could focus on main lines better.
And my point about playing in a tiny galaxy was, that it gives no feeling of reality. No vast empires that span dozens of stars, or wars between tens of thousand ships.
And the goal of every game is to win. Yes, you enjoy it meanwhile but still you try to win it. With or without research. And I repeat, I only tried it for a weekend. I played a couple of games and won them all easily. Yet I'm not a strategy game super genious, for instance my Civ2 rating is about 180%.
jfrazier posted 12-02-98 03:58 PM ET
Aga1:
MOO2 is fun for a few concepts such as the being able to design your race or ships, weaponry, etc. However, SMAC will have much more variety in govt, a tech tree (that is just as good, if not better), and the ABILITY TO EXPAND BEYOND THE BORDERS OF THE GAME!
I found that to be the biggest disappointment of MOO2. You could only go so far, colonize and develop so much and my opponents were chosen. I was hoping it would allow for a near endless colonization approach balanced on economic, scientific, and military limits.
Get CIV II, or SMAC before getting MOO2.
MOO2, I rate as a high B level game, B+/A-
Jeff
Ceasar of the Stars
DJ RRebel posted 12-03-98 05:44 AM ET
Umm .. what is HotSeat ??? And how does it work ???
Tapiolan poika posted 12-03-98 01:01 PM ET
Hotseat means you only use one computer in multiplayer mode, i.e. first one player makes his moves, clicks "Done", then the next player makes his moves, until all are ready, whereupon you move to the next turn.
Thus, you need neither Internet (which I still don't have at home!), nor network.
Sort of poor man's multiplayer. Useful, though, I think.
dushan posted 12-03-98 02:25 PM ET
I'm surprised (and envious ) to hear that German mags release full games...
Is it legal? What sort of licence do you get with it?
Here in UK we get just demos - all of which can be found somewhere on the Net (so I don't buy any gaming mags anymore).
Talking about old games, I'd love to try out MOO1. I have MOO2 and I quite like it (Aga1-I think it's sufficiently different to Civ and SMAC so if you have spare time&money, go and get it), but from what you said MOO1 seems to be more appealing in some areas. Do you know where I could get it?
Another old game I'm trying to hunt down is Dune - I played it & finished it twice a long, long time ago & I'd love to have another go on it.
Do you know a web site that sells old/used games?
Titan posted 12-03-98 03:06 PM ET
Dushan,if you want old games,you can go to ea.com,but they only sell electronics arts and its affiliates games.If you want another old game, the only way I know is to buy it at the stores. Many companies like westwood or Sierra sell thei classic in a special box at an reasonnably low price. You can get Dune 1and Dune 2 in the same package this way in the westwood classics.
As for MOO2,it`'san excellent gamethat I really suggest that you buy if you have the money. The conceptis good as well as the engine. It's different from civ games. In some aspects it is more developped than civ2 (combat for instance),in other it is less.
Hotseat is a cool feature for multiplayer gaming,principally on non-popular games,since it may be difficult to find one of your friends who got the game. It is not as exciting as a game over the internet, but it is still good. I prefer it for games which has small turn length,since it may be boring to wait until your opponents have finish their turn. A good point is that since you can directly between each other,the diplomacy options are better. It would be great to have this option on SMAC, but it is not necessarysince the game will have, I think, many net users.
Jojo posted 12-03-98 03:29 PM ET
How about I throw something more into the mix: I just recently dusted off my shelves and reinstalled MOM-- (a DOS game!)
I would rate Civ2 on top of MOO2, with MOM running even to MOO2
I say, however, go ahead and buy an old MOO2 to pass the time-- try a bargain bin at local computer store-- can't be much more than $10....
CClark posted 12-03-98 05:00 PM ET
Off topic, but... Anyone else remember playing M.U.L.E. on a C64 with three friends? Two guys got to use joysticks and the other two got to share the keyboard, each getting one half of it during the "land grab" phase. Then you got to toss joystick1 around as you each made your turns, in turn.
God that was a fun game for it's time...
Grosshaus posted 12-04-98 03:27 PM ET
If someone here likes classic strategy games and adores Sid, you ought to try Railroad Tycoon!! It is really a lot better than for instance Colonization, SimCity2000 or many of the newer games. Oh I hope I had the money for RR Tycoon II! Luckily it's not made by Sid himself and it's not that "must" as SMAC will be. Too bad I think I have to upgrade my computer (P120) in January. Would someone be interested in giving a cheap loan?
Pudz posted 12-05-98 10:43 AM ET
I highly reccomend buying it. The only way that it is better than civ, civ2 etc games, are that it is multiplayer.
I found it in my closet and brought it to college, and i can't get enough of it.
~Pudz
osric posted 12-05-98 11:26 AM ET
I liked the MOO2 colony management list -- Much better than Auto in CivII. Hated the concept of heros in MOO2 (it was OK in MOM), I don't need other demigods.
MOO2 vs MOO? have both, play MOO2 more often, but take MOO with me on the laptop when travelling. If you can find MOO2 for under $25, buy it, but buy ether if they're under $20 (or find a German friend).
Civ2 vs Civ? Hands down Civ2.
MOO2 vs Civ? Civ (any, except possibly civnet).
I really did like RR Tycoon, but I am a little apprehensive about RR Tycoon II -- it's already in the warehouse discount stores here in the Pacific NorthWet (I'll let you know next year because I think it is in a package under the Christmas tree)
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Author	Topic: Is MOO2 Worth to buy ?
Aga1	posted 11-28-98 11:17 AM ET I been looking at moo2 reviews and i find that smac and moo2 are almost the same.I know some pepole on the fourm have it and i ask is it worth to buy ?
DJ RRebel	posted 11-28-98 11:20 AM ET Aga1 .. I've heard alot about it too, I was thinking of getting it! But SMAC is too close now !!! Anyone care to give us a few comparisons with MOO2, CIV2 & SMAC ???
Arnelos	posted 11-28-98 02:18 PM ET As an owner of MOO2 who spent a year on the MOO2 forums before the game came out, I can tell you a bit about the comparison: First of all, they are NOT the same game. MOO2 is an interstellar inter-racial strategic game. You play a race that starts with your homeworld and expand to multiple systems and planets. The diplomacy system is much worse than the original MOO, but the patches help fix this. SMAC is the development of 7 human factions in the imediate future (supposedly) on a single planet, Chiron (in the Alpha Centuari system). So the game is a strategy game on the surface of a planet between human factions, not an inter-stellar strat/war-game between multiple races in the very distant future. If you only have the money for one and not both, I would HEAVILY suggest getting SMAC and not MOO2. MOO2 was a great concept, but it fell short in a lot of areas.
Octopus	posted 11-28-98 03:11 PM ET Arnelos is right, MOO2 and SMAC are very different games. I would recommend getting MOO2 if you could. It should be relatively inexpensive by now, since it is such an "old" game. The big difference between MOO and Civ/SMAC is that Civ and SMAC take place on planets where geography is important (e.g. isthmuses, oceans, mountains, etc.) while in the two MOOs, all of the action takes place at the different stars in the galaxy, so it is hard to do things like surround someone. Also, the MOOs have a turn-based tactical combat resolution phase, where you get to move the ships you've designed and built around, seeing how effective your designs really are. MOO2 had good points and bad points. In some ways it was an improvement over MOO1, but in some ways they ruined some of the things that made MOO1 so cool. MOO1 was a lot more abstract in things like colony management, and I preferred that. They added race customization in MOO2, though, which was really cool. If you have to choose between SMAC and MOO2, get SMAC. If you have to choose between getting MOO2 and having nothing to do while you wait for SMAC, get MOO2. You'll probably enjoy it.
Imran Siddiqui	posted 11-28-98 03:24 PM ET I agree with Arnelos. MOO2 did fall short in many areas. I expected it to be, what it was called, Civilization in space. It wasn't as good as I though it was going to be, and I haven't played it that much. Imran Siddiqui Patriot
Spoe	posted 11-28-98 03:44 PM ET MOO2 is one of those games that for me has had a substantial shelf life. I still occasionally pull it down a play a few games. I do agree, though, that it fell short of my expectations(based on MOO) in several areas. Mainly colony management, and research. OTOH, getting rid of the 32k ship stacks was a good thing IMHO.
DJ RRebel	posted 11-29-98 11:29 AM ET So then which would you recommend out of MOO1 & MOO2 ??? And for those who don't have Civ1 or 2 (not me obviously), would you recomend MOO@ over Civ2 ???
Grosshaus	posted 11-29-98 02:09 PM ET Absolutely Civ2! In my opinion Moo2 is just a useless attempt to convert Moo1 to some weird copy of Civ2. I played Moo1 a lot when it was new and when my friend bought Moo2 I borrowed it for a weekend to try it out before bying it. Good thing I did because it sucks. You can never get a good idea of what your empire is like, if you play on a larger map. It just relies so heavily on micromanagement. And what is the point of playing in a galaxy of 20 stars? Also it is far too easy. My second game I played on medium level. I conquered everyone in a flash, 'cos I chose telepathy and could conquer everyone oh so easily. After that I playd another game on hard and again I won too easily. This time I chose diplomatic and was elected in the first election. After that I chose subterranean ability and won again on first elections because I had a population double the others altogether. I would recommend Moo2 to only amateurs and to them only if they like to spend endless hours on every detail.
Octopus	posted 11-29-98 02:29 PM ET "what is the point of playing in a galaxy of 20 stars" Well, to state the obvious, the point of playing in a small galaxy (which was more than 20, I think) is too avoid some tedious micromanagement once your empire gets too large... Yes, the game is somewhat unbalanced. When you are customizing your race, it is possible to create a race that is seriously overpowered. However, don't play the game just to win, play to have fun. Experiment with all of the different play styles. Try playing as a combat-intensive race and winning without ever doing any research. It can be quite a challenge. The choice between MOO1 and MOO2 is difficult. MOO1 has some bugs in it (for example, every so often you will find that your enemies have stacks of 32000 ships, which is a very suspicious number from a binary point of view). On the other hand, MOO2 is a bit more like Civ in its colony management, which I found made the game worse. The tactical combat in MOO2 is more involved, because you get to move your ships around one-at-a-time instead of huge stacks. You also have things like shield facings and fighters. Both games suffer from a serious lack of AI, and I'm almost positive that the computer isn't playing by the same rules you are. All that said, though, they were both really fun games, and I spent hours and hours and hours playing both of them. If either game had been done "right", I'd say that the MOOs would beat CivII in my opinion, but as it is CivII is a better game just because it was implemented well. If Firaxis were to ever make a game like MOO, I'd be after it more intently than I'm after SMAC.
0leg	posted 11-30-98 05:31 PM ET Grosshaus, There are Moo2 editors in public domain which let you design AI races. This way you can play against superopponents (but very dumb anyway). It realy rejuveniled Moo2 for me and these days I enjoy it more than CivII which was my favorite before. Or you can follow Octopus's suggestions and play uncreative repulsive race on impossible. The first and only time I won with that race was probably the most memorable game I ever had !
Sofielisk	posted 11-30-98 06:38 PM ET I like Moo 2 personally... nice tech tree design, customisable races are good. However, I have only played it from a friend's computer so I am no expert on it I like it though Must make more posts than Darklight! I am the CWALer who has posted the least! Must remedy awful situation by mad posting frenzy!
DJ RRebel	posted 12-01-98 06:48 AM ET Hmmmn .. ok .. thanks for the advice .. I think I'll wait for SMAC !!! When did MOO1 & MOO2 get released anyways ???
OmniDude	posted 12-01-98 07:20 AM ET I really can't say which game I like more. I love tactical combat in MOO2, but as others have stated, CivII have the edge when it comes to overall playability. At the risk of comitting heresy (do I use the term correctly?) I'll have to state that if a MOO3 was announced, I would anticipate that with as much - if not more - impatience as I do with MASC, sorry, SCAM, oops, I mean SMAC. At any rate, IMO both of these games are ahead of the rest of the gaming world by quite a bit and these two are the only games that I have ever kept playing 2 months after purchasing them. And I still do...
Boskone on Toast	posted 12-01-98 11:14 AM ET I know it's probably not much use to most of you, but in Germany the full version of MOO2 has been given away as one of the coverdisks on GameStar magazine this month (Jan/99) Just thought I'd let you know.
DJ RRebel	posted 12-01-98 12:13 PM ET Why are they giving away the game for free ???
Arnelos	posted 12-01-98 05:52 PM ET Oh my. . .
Elfi Wolfe	posted 12-01-98 06:37 PM ET Buy it. Its a good game, little dated now.
Boskone on Toast	posted 12-02-98 08:04 AM ET It's something magazines here in Germany seem to do on a regular basis - give out full working versions of older games. last month it was X-com terror from the deep, another decent game. I don't know exactly why they do it but its a cool idea
Tapiolan poika	posted 12-02-98 01:38 PM ET Boskone: Damn, it's too long since I was in Germany - that makes me jealous. I wonder if I can get hold of Gamestar Magazine here in Stockholm... On the other hand I already have MOO2... Hmm, it's OK, in other words... But the concept! Aga1: I love MOO2, in spite of its shortcomings (you just have to avoid choosing the races that make winning too easy...). Another thing: MOO2 incorporates hotseat multiplayer! Great! Sadly that won't be included in SMAC...
Grosshaus	posted 12-02-98 03:48 PM ET Some things in MOO1 that should have been kept in MOO2: The research was better, when you researched several things at the same time. HUGE number of ships. Sometimes you could build a few hundred of small ships in a turn in some colonies, and when they could be commanded as on in tact. com. they were quite invincible. Controlling the colonies quite generally, one could focus on main lines better. And my point about playing in a tiny galaxy was, that it gives no feeling of reality. No vast empires that span dozens of stars, or wars between tens of thousand ships. And the goal of every game is to win. Yes, you enjoy it meanwhile but still you try to win it. With or without research. And I repeat, I only tried it for a weekend. I played a couple of games and won them all easily. Yet I'm not a strategy game super genious, for instance my Civ2 rating is about 180%.
jfrazier	posted 12-02-98 03:58 PM ET Aga1: MOO2 is fun for a few concepts such as the being able to design your race or ships, weaponry, etc. However, SMAC will have much more variety in govt, a tech tree (that is just as good, if not better), and the ABILITY TO EXPAND BEYOND THE BORDERS OF THE GAME! I found that to be the biggest disappointment of MOO2. You could only go so far, colonize and develop so much and my opponents were chosen. I was hoping it would allow for a near endless colonization approach balanced on economic, scientific, and military limits. Get CIV II, or SMAC before getting MOO2. MOO2, I rate as a high B level game, B+/A- Jeff Ceasar of the Stars
DJ RRebel	posted 12-03-98 05:44 AM ET Umm .. what is HotSeat ??? And how does it work ???
Tapiolan poika	posted 12-03-98 01:01 PM ET Hotseat means you only use one computer in multiplayer mode, i.e. first one player makes his moves, clicks "Done", then the next player makes his moves, until all are ready, whereupon you move to the next turn. Thus, you need neither Internet (which I still don't have at home!), nor network. Sort of poor man's multiplayer. Useful, though, I think.
dushan	posted 12-03-98 02:25 PM ET I'm surprised (and envious ) to hear that German mags release full games... Is it legal? What sort of licence do you get with it? Here in UK we get just demos - all of which can be found somewhere on the Net (so I don't buy any gaming mags anymore). Talking about old games, I'd love to try out MOO1. I have MOO2 and I quite like it (Aga1-I think it's sufficiently different to Civ and SMAC so if you have spare time&money, go and get it), but from what you said MOO1 seems to be more appealing in some areas. Do you know where I could get it? Another old game I'm trying to hunt down is Dune - I played it & finished it twice a long, long time ago & I'd love to have another go on it. Do you know a web site that sells old/used games?
Titan	posted 12-03-98 03:06 PM ET Dushan,if you want old games,you can go to ea.com,but they only sell electronics arts and its affiliates games.If you want another old game, the only way I know is to buy it at the stores. Many companies like westwood or Sierra sell thei classic in a special box at an reasonnably low price. You can get Dune 1and Dune 2 in the same package this way in the westwood classics. As for MOO2,it`'san excellent gamethat I really suggest that you buy if you have the money. The conceptis good as well as the engine. It's different from civ games. In some aspects it is more developped than civ2 (combat for instance),in other it is less. Hotseat is a cool feature for multiplayer gaming,principally on non-popular games,since it may be difficult to find one of your friends who got the game. It is not as exciting as a game over the internet, but it is still good. I prefer it for games which has small turn length,since it may be boring to wait until your opponents have finish their turn. A good point is that since you can directly between each other,the diplomacy options are better. It would be great to have this option on SMAC, but it is not necessarysince the game will have, I think, many net users.
Jojo	posted 12-03-98 03:29 PM ET How about I throw something more into the mix: I just recently dusted off my shelves and reinstalled MOM-- (a DOS game!) I would rate Civ2 on top of MOO2, with MOM running even to MOO2 I say, however, go ahead and buy an old MOO2 to pass the time-- try a bargain bin at local computer store-- can't be much more than $10....
CClark	posted 12-03-98 05:00 PM ET Off topic, but... Anyone else remember playing M.U.L.E. on a C64 with three friends? Two guys got to use joysticks and the other two got to share the keyboard, each getting one half of it during the "land grab" phase. Then you got to toss joystick1 around as you each made your turns, in turn. God that was a fun game for it's time...
Grosshaus	posted 12-04-98 03:27 PM ET If someone here likes classic strategy games and adores Sid, you ought to try Railroad Tycoon!! It is really a lot better than for instance Colonization, SimCity2000 or many of the newer games. Oh I hope I had the money for RR Tycoon II! Luckily it's not made by Sid himself and it's not that "must" as SMAC will be. Too bad I think I have to upgrade my computer (P120) in January. Would someone be interested in giving a cheap loan?
Pudz	posted 12-05-98 10:43 AM ET I highly reccomend buying it. The only way that it is better than civ, civ2 etc games, are that it is multiplayer. I found it in my closet and brought it to college, and i can't get enough of it. ~Pudz
osric	posted 12-05-98 11:26 AM ET I liked the MOO2 colony management list -- Much better than Auto in CivII. Hated the concept of heros in MOO2 (it was OK in MOM), I don't need other demigods. MOO2 vs MOO? have both, play MOO2 more often, but take MOO with me on the laptop when travelling. If you can find MOO2 for under $25, buy it, but buy ether if they're under $20 (or find a German friend). Civ2 vs Civ? Hands down Civ2. MOO2 vs Civ? Civ (any, except possibly civnet). I really did like RR Tycoon, but I am a little apprehensive about RR Tycoon II -- it's already in the warehouse discount stores here in the Pacific NorthWet (I'll let you know next year because I think it is in a package under the Christmas tree)