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Author Topic:   Possible Rebels in Conquered Cities

Charlie Kao posted 11-27-98 06:23 PM ET
One thing that I've found unrealistic in both of Civ's game is conquered subjects' seemingly immediate surrender to the victors. For example, playing as a Chinese leader in Civ II using the Monarchy government, I took over, lets say, three France cities which previously had a Democratic government. In real life, I would expect some kind of revolution or rebellion against me once in a while instead of just some gurella forces surrounding my cities. Untill that three French cities are starting to be absorbed into the Chinese cultures, or accept the fact that they are now part of the Chinese Empire, for example, I should, in the game, have to constantly deal with possible threats of rebellions. Hopefully, this will be true in Alpha Centauri.

dushan posted 11-27-98 08:29 PM ET
Yep, I'd like that. I quite like the way it was handled in MOO2 (ie if you don't have sufficient military presence in the conquered city, they can revolt and return control to the original owner, however the population is slowly assimilated over the years so eventually the city will become completely 'yours'). This adds to game things like being able to mass murder the original inhabitants (like in MOO2). This would probably appeal mainly to Spartans, but is a fun option (+ different factions could view the action in different light, ie HH, UoP might be neutral, Spartans might approve and PK obviously disaprove.)
I haven't heard anything about such a feature though so it is very likely that the population will behave exactly as in Civ and Civ II.
Was this discussed before? Does anyone know if Firaxis have ever said anything about this?
CrackGenius posted 11-27-98 10:11 PM ET
In the old forums there was a large thread over exactly this issue and I think that the general view was that that it won't be exactly the same. I don't remember if someone from Firaxis actually said something but as far as I remember in the immediate turns after the occupation of the city you will experience difficulties in production etc. because of civil unrest. I'm not absolutely sure though.
DJ RRebel posted 11-28-98 10:55 AM ET
The only conquered cities I'll be in are the ones I conquer !!!
Keith Bennett posted 11-29-98 05:19 AM ET
That would make non-lethal weaponry more useful than simply supressing unrest in your cities. I wouldn't suggest attacking with such a police unit, tho
Kurn posted 11-29-98 05:32 AM ET
Hmmm, thats a horrible idea! How am I supposed to conquer the world if these bastards revolt. death to all! Long live the hive and other evil factions!
Seriously though, good idea!
BorgBTD posted 11-29-98 08:52 AM ET
In Civ2 the partisans which appear are supposed to represent rebels, though having civil unrest for a few more turns would also help.
DJ RRebel posted 11-29-98 09:55 AM ET
All rebels must pass through me for approval before revolting !!!
I am DJ (Director Jeneral) RRebel !!!
BorgBTD posted 11-29-98 10:13 AM ET
I dont think it works that way.
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey posted 11-29-98 02:56 PM ET
I think it should be along the lines of factions idealogy. If some PK's captured a Human Hive city, I doubt the people would revolt to much, because now they're free! But if you flip that around, & The Human Hive captured a PK city, the PK's would fight it out tooth & nail to be part of the PK's again!
Good idea, but it's probably a bit late to implement. Always SMAC2!
Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general,
YYYH
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey posted 11-29-98 02:58 PM ET
Damn, being a bit hypocritical here(sorry DJ).
BorgBTD, I'm pretty sure DJ was kidding. Lighten up!
Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general,
YYYH
Octopus posted 11-29-98 03:08 PM ET
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey, don't be silly. Anyone would be happy to join the Hive, and anyone cruelly cut of from their Brothers and Sisters would do whatever was in their power to rejoin the glorious Hive. If anything, the rest of the factions will have to keep a watchful eye on their "citizens" in order to keep them from leaving and joining a TRUE society, where everyone shares in the benefits of their shared efforts.
Octopus posted 11-29-98 03:12 PM ET
DJ, I doubt that any conquered Spartans will go through your chain of command before revolting. They seem to have a real problem with authority. Just look at their so-called "Colonel" Santiago.
Damn Spartans, they can't even be trusted to revolt properly.
Aaron McKean posted 12-09-98 07:27 AM ET
Interesting thought. Also, suppose you were allied with a faction against a common enemy. In your assult, you conquer cities that once belonged to your friend. Shouldn't it be possible to hand over, or have handed over, bases after they have been liberated? For example, Paris was liberated by allied forces and then given back to the French government...even though it was the allies that had a military presence there.
Brother Greg posted 12-09-98 06:34 PM ET
Aaron: I believe there is the possibility during diplomacy to cede cities to other Factions, but I don't think anyone thought of giving them back to allies.
Ont he whole discussion, as CG mentioned, there was a big thread, but IIRC, Firaxis never posted anything about it. They would have been aware of the issues though, as when this occurred, they read and contributed to the forums regularly.
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Author	Topic: Possible Rebels in Conquered Cities
Charlie Kao	posted 11-27-98 06:23 PM ET One thing that I've found unrealistic in both of Civ's game is conquered subjects' seemingly immediate surrender to the victors. For example, playing as a Chinese leader in Civ II using the Monarchy government, I took over, lets say, three France cities which previously had a Democratic government. In real life, I would expect some kind of revolution or rebellion against me once in a while instead of just some gurella forces surrounding my cities. Untill that three French cities are starting to be absorbed into the Chinese cultures, or accept the fact that they are now part of the Chinese Empire, for example, I should, in the game, have to constantly deal with possible threats of rebellions. Hopefully, this will be true in Alpha Centauri.
dushan	posted 11-27-98 08:29 PM ET Yep, I'd like that. I quite like the way it was handled in MOO2 (ie if you don't have sufficient military presence in the conquered city, they can revolt and return control to the original owner, however the population is slowly assimilated over the years so eventually the city will become completely 'yours'). This adds to game things like being able to mass murder the original inhabitants (like in MOO2). This would probably appeal mainly to Spartans, but is a fun option (+ different factions could view the action in different light, ie HH, UoP might be neutral, Spartans might approve and PK obviously disaprove.) I haven't heard anything about such a feature though so it is very likely that the population will behave exactly as in Civ and Civ II. Was this discussed before? Does anyone know if Firaxis have ever said anything about this?
CrackGenius	posted 11-27-98 10:11 PM ET In the old forums there was a large thread over exactly this issue and I think that the general view was that that it won't be exactly the same. I don't remember if someone from Firaxis actually said something but as far as I remember in the immediate turns after the occupation of the city you will experience difficulties in production etc. because of civil unrest. I'm not absolutely sure though.
DJ RRebel	posted 11-28-98 10:55 AM ET The only conquered cities I'll be in are the ones I conquer !!!
Keith Bennett	posted 11-29-98 05:19 AM ET That would make non-lethal weaponry more useful than simply supressing unrest in your cities. I wouldn't suggest attacking with such a police unit, tho
Kurn	posted 11-29-98 05:32 AM ET Hmmm, thats a horrible idea! How am I supposed to conquer the world if these bastards revolt. death to all! Long live the hive and other evil factions! Seriously though, good idea!
BorgBTD	posted 11-29-98 08:52 AM ET In Civ2 the partisans which appear are supposed to represent rebels, though having civil unrest for a few more turns would also help.
DJ RRebel	posted 11-29-98 09:55 AM ET All rebels must pass through me for approval before revolting !!! I am DJ (Director Jeneral) RRebel !!!
BorgBTD	posted 11-29-98 10:13 AM ET I dont think it works that way.
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey	posted 11-29-98 02:56 PM ET I think it should be along the lines of factions idealogy. If some PK's captured a Human Hive city, I doubt the people would revolt to much, because now they're free! But if you flip that around, & The Human Hive captured a PK city, the PK's would fight it out tooth & nail to be part of the PK's again! Good idea, but it's probably a bit late to implement. Always SMAC2! Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general, YYYH
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey	posted 11-29-98 02:58 PM ET Damn, being a bit hypocritical here(sorry DJ). BorgBTD, I'm pretty sure DJ was kidding. Lighten up! Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general, YYYH
Octopus	posted 11-29-98 03:08 PM ET Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey, don't be silly. Anyone would be happy to join the Hive, and anyone cruelly cut of from their Brothers and Sisters would do whatever was in their power to rejoin the glorious Hive. If anything, the rest of the factions will have to keep a watchful eye on their "citizens" in order to keep them from leaving and joining a TRUE society, where everyone shares in the benefits of their shared efforts.
Octopus	posted 11-29-98 03:12 PM ET DJ, I doubt that any conquered Spartans will go through your chain of command before revolting. They seem to have a real problem with authority. Just look at their so-called "Colonel" Santiago. Damn Spartans, they can't even be trusted to revolt properly.
Aaron McKean	posted 12-09-98 07:27 AM ET Interesting thought. Also, suppose you were allied with a faction against a common enemy. In your assult, you conquer cities that once belonged to your friend. Shouldn't it be possible to hand over, or have handed over, bases after they have been liberated? For example, Paris was liberated by allied forces and then given back to the French government...even though it was the allies that had a military presence there.
Brother Greg	posted 12-09-98 06:34 PM ET Aaron: I believe there is the possibility during diplomacy to cede cities to other Factions, but I don't think anyone thought of giving them back to allies. Ont he whole discussion, as CG mentioned, there was a big thread, but IIRC, Firaxis never posted anything about it. They would have been aware of the issues though, as when this occurred, they read and contributed to the forums regularly.