Something the faction arguments seem to be missing

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Author Topic:   Something the faction arguments seem to be missing

Keith Bennett posted 11-26-98 05:21 AM ET
Taking a faction (or possibly customizing your own) does not set in stone your activites for the remainder of the game - it just demonstrates where you are starting from.
As I understand the previews, the 12 initial stats (military, efficiency, industry, etc) are further modified as the game progresses by researching the 3 implementations of the 8 government stances.
(wow, Ultima IV flashback there).
Say you are the Gaians. You start with a dull & boring economy, etc (as does anyone - it was described as "frontier"). You can the research the 3 types of advanced economy - ruthless, moderate, and idealistic (I'm not sure what they will be called in the game - I've seen "idealistic" referred to as "green" by one person and "fair market" by another). So your gains may decide to go with the green / socailist markert, and get efficiency and happiness advantages. Or they (you) may choose a free market to optimise production at eh expene of waste.
Militarily, the Greens are weak. If they choose the ruthless conscript army, they can make a lot of cheap, poor, units. Or they could go with the idealistc all volunteer army, who will likely cost more but negate the inherent Gaean disadvantage. And while Spartan conscripts will beat Gaean conscripts, and Spartan volunteers Gaian volunteers, Gaian volunteers will possibly beat Spartan conscripts.
You could also have Morgan industries go for a idealistic market, and the Spartans could decide to use their inherent weapon superiority to produce masses of cheap conscripts.
The UoP might go for tightly controlled information nets (lower research, higher security) if they keep getting stolen from; while the Hive might be able to keep the nets free and open, with their inherent probe abilites protecting it.
The believers might do for a free and open society, or the peacekeeprs a ruthless health system and conscript army. UoP might want a tightly controlled educational system. The fact that these choices may go againt what the common perception of the faction is irrelevent. And your idea for the best way to make your faction could change as circumstances change.
Imagine running a warm and fuzzy Morgan Enterprises with personal freedoms, free health care, and an environmentalist economy. With the tech advances, this is possible (desirable is another matter).
It also has some interesting game playing options. Say that you as Gaians want everyone to adopt a green economic stance - just trade or give away that tech. If they don't have other choices reseached, they will likely adapt it until they do (beats the basic "frontier" choice). Or the believers exporting religious fanatacism (ruthless religous), or Morgan exporting ruthless economies.
Your wealth might determine how you go militarily - do you have a lot of minerals but little energy? You may want a small, elite volunteer army (assuming that you need minerals to build and energy to support units). Do you have a lot of energy but few minerals? Larger numbers of cheap conscript troops. Troops can be further fiddled with by changing their composition, of course.
I am intersted in how the bonuses work ( remeber seeing a screenshot with efficiency 50%. Does that mean +50% efficiency, -50%, or 50/100?). But we may need to wait for that.
tOFfGI posted 11-26-98 05:25 AM ET
According to IGN, there will be _four_ economy stances: green, Fair market, Free market and Moderate.
tOFfGI posted 11-26-98 05:27 AM ET
Also, choosing a faction will just give you initial advantages. If you don't in the beginnig build science with the UoP for example, you are going to have a very difficult game ahead of you.
Gord McLeod posted 11-26-98 06:05 AM ET
Also, you don't need to research the types of government - they are simply moral and philosophical approaches you can take in handling the various aspects of your government. These can be changed as you play the game, but doing so carries consequences if you stray too far from your faction's stated ideal...
AUH20 posted 11-26-98 06:09 PM ET
Also, people go to the factions not just because of gameplay, but idealogy. i.e. the leftists are attracted to the Gaian's, while I, the arch-capitalist classical liberal(Hayek) go to Morgan.
SnowFire posted 11-26-98 10:08 PM ET
In other words each faction should move away from its strengths and all should become a homeogenous blob? I dislike that idea. While I agree you should be able to structure your soceity as YOU wish, those faction profiles should mean something.
MikeH II posted 11-27-98 07:38 AM ET
What do you mean Gaian volunteers will beat Spartan conscripts? Apart from the fact we will have a well trained proffesional army those tree huggers might be able to tie themselves to stuff to protest roads but they are no good against a platoon of hovertanks.
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Author	Topic: Something the faction arguments seem to be missing
Keith Bennett	posted 11-26-98 05:21 AM ET Taking a faction (or possibly customizing your own) does not set in stone your activites for the remainder of the game - it just demonstrates where you are starting from. As I understand the previews, the 12 initial stats (military, efficiency, industry, etc) are further modified as the game progresses by researching the 3 implementations of the 8 government stances. (wow, Ultima IV flashback there). Say you are the Gaians. You start with a dull & boring economy, etc (as does anyone - it was described as "frontier"). You can the research the 3 types of advanced economy - ruthless, moderate, and idealistic (I'm not sure what they will be called in the game - I've seen "idealistic" referred to as "green" by one person and "fair market" by another). So your gains may decide to go with the green / socailist markert, and get efficiency and happiness advantages. Or they (you) may choose a free market to optimise production at eh expene of waste. Militarily, the Greens are weak. If they choose the ruthless conscript army, they can make a lot of cheap, poor, units. Or they could go with the idealistc all volunteer army, who will likely cost more but negate the inherent Gaean disadvantage. And while Spartan conscripts will beat Gaean conscripts, and Spartan volunteers Gaian volunteers, Gaian volunteers will possibly beat Spartan conscripts. You could also have Morgan industries go for a idealistic market, and the Spartans could decide to use their inherent weapon superiority to produce masses of cheap conscripts. The UoP might go for tightly controlled information nets (lower research, higher security) if they keep getting stolen from; while the Hive might be able to keep the nets free and open, with their inherent probe abilites protecting it. The believers might do for a free and open society, or the peacekeeprs a ruthless health system and conscript army. UoP might want a tightly controlled educational system. The fact that these choices may go againt what the common perception of the faction is irrelevent. And your idea for the best way to make your faction could change as circumstances change. Imagine running a warm and fuzzy Morgan Enterprises with personal freedoms, free health care, and an environmentalist economy. With the tech advances, this is possible (desirable is another matter). It also has some interesting game playing options. Say that you as Gaians want everyone to adopt a green economic stance - just trade or give away that tech. If they don't have other choices reseached, they will likely adapt it until they do (beats the basic "frontier" choice). Or the believers exporting religious fanatacism (ruthless religous), or Morgan exporting ruthless economies. Your wealth might determine how you go militarily - do you have a lot of minerals but little energy? You may want a small, elite volunteer army (assuming that you need minerals to build and energy to support units). Do you have a lot of energy but few minerals? Larger numbers of cheap conscript troops. Troops can be further fiddled with by changing their composition, of course. I am intersted in how the bonuses work ( remeber seeing a screenshot with efficiency 50%. Does that mean +50% efficiency, -50%, or 50/100?). But we may need to wait for that.
tOFfGI	posted 11-26-98 05:25 AM ET According to IGN, there will be _four_ economy stances: green, Fair market, Free market and Moderate.
tOFfGI	posted 11-26-98 05:27 AM ET Also, choosing a faction will just give you initial advantages. If you don't in the beginnig build science with the UoP for example, you are going to have a very difficult game ahead of you.
Gord McLeod	posted 11-26-98 06:05 AM ET Also, you don't need to research the types of government - they are simply moral and philosophical approaches you can take in handling the various aspects of your government. These can be changed as you play the game, but doing so carries consequences if you stray too far from your faction's stated ideal...
AUH20	posted 11-26-98 06:09 PM ET Also, people go to the factions not just because of gameplay, but idealogy. i.e. the leftists are attracted to the Gaian's, while I, the arch-capitalist classical liberal(Hayek) go to Morgan.
SnowFire	posted 11-26-98 10:08 PM ET In other words each faction should move away from its strengths and all should become a homeogenous blob? I dislike that idea. While I agree you should be able to structure your soceity as YOU wish, those faction profiles should mean something.
MikeH II	posted 11-27-98 07:38 AM ET What do you mean Gaian volunteers will beat Spartan conscripts? Apart from the fact we will have a well trained proffesional army those tree huggers might be able to tie themselves to stuff to protest roads but they are no good against a platoon of hovertanks.