posted 11-23-98 04:34 PM ET        

This thread will contain our suggestions for Brian's next game.

My suggestions:

1) A fantasy genre turnbased strategy game like Master of Magic. This would allow Firaxis to use creativity unhindered by realworld constraints. Since SMAC is SF, the next logical step would be a Fantasy game. A fantasy game would also increase the fan base of Firaxis, attracting fantasy lovers.

posted 11-23-98 05:17 PM ET            

The types of gameplay effects I'm refering to are worldspells. You can cast spells that affect all or large parts of the world, similar to global warming in SMAC. But worldspells can be more diverse than the single affect of Global warming. You can have several diff worldspells.

posted 11-23-98 08:06 PM ET            

The two greatest games i played in my life were Civilization and Master of Orion.

Those kind of games are so rare...

posted 11-23-98 08:19 PM ET            

I be gettin' me "letter of marque" from Governor Harry Morgan hisself down Port Royale way soon. I'll then be tak'n me little barkie, and prime crew of swashbuckling scurvy sea dogs, off to Cartegena and harass the Spaniards and/or do a little trading in sugar, tobacco, rum or miscellaneous merchandise (no questions asked). Be you with me there will be plenty of rum and loot for all. Be you agin me, then its long walk off a short plank or a maroon on a desert island for any cowardly mutinous lily-livered poxed coves. I be needin' a few more able rated sailors and gunners on me ship before we set sail to fight the Dutch, French, Spaniards and pirates on our way to Sid's Island to find the long lost buried treasure of ancient Aztlan.

Please file your resume with my purser, Mr. Jonathan Silver. He's the gent with one leg.

posted 11-23-98 08:30 PM ET            

Running a country is more than just fighting wars and building towns. If anyone can capture the joy of the political arena, Firaxis would be the folks.

posted 11-24-98 02:26 AM ET            

Perhaps for Firaxis' next game we'll see some kind of empire-building game with realtime battles based on the Gettysburg engine.

posted 11-24-98 06:39 AM ET            

Starting in 1945 and ending in either:

Nuclear holocaust
**** that we have now
Global communism
Nothing changes

Mess with small third world coutries, practice espionage, build the war machine, negotiate peace and war, sabotage, bribe, subvert and infiltrate, threaten and bang the table with your shoe at the UN.

posted 11-24-98 07:58 AM ET            

My three ideas (that I've always thought would make the best strategy games ever):

1). PARLIAMENT

My father and I have talked about (and tinkered with) the idea of writing an updated version of the original PARLIAMENT for years. PARLIAMENT was a statistics-model game of politics in a mythical 1920s central European state with the 7 parties loosely based on parties of the German Weimar Republic. The 7 parties were Communist, Socialist, Radical, Centrist, Conservative, Monarchist, and Nationalist. There were 5 voter groups spread differently in each region. The 5 groups were intellectuals, workers, peasants, middle class, and catholics. The nations faced delimnas that you would expect for a new and evolving parliamentary democracy in the early 20th century leading up to WWII. The game was completely mathematical and the statistics were horrendously complicated for playability (the reason it never moved beyond the dippy zines).
Our initial idea was to update it to 1990s Central/Eastern Europe with appropriate changes in the parties and voting blocs to reflect the situation of the new and evolving democracies of Central and Eastern Europe.

However, I've since then been working on a model for handling the politics of just about any country on Earth. One idea I had was to focus a world-wide federalist system in which you would elect officials for the world government (who wouldn't have too much authority) and officials for each state. Parties would exists on a state-by-state basis, but coalition-parties of like-minded national parties would exit at the super-state level. Obviously, this would be amazingly complex, but would be a very rich and excellent game if someone could pull it off.

Conversely, I tinkered with the idea of having perhaps 7 mythical states, each with 7 parties (with variations in political culture for each state). This would expand the realm of the game beyond the domestic affairs of one state, but would involve the domestic affairs of each state and the foreign affairs that affect one another. You could even pick a real world type thing like the EU rather than a mythical grouping of states.

posted 11-24-98 08:08 AM ET            

I'm just wondering how close the 7 faction diplomacy will be to the things you described at the global level?

posted 11-24-98 08:19 AM ET            

Ok, in this game, you are the head of the newly formed international space agency. The U.N. and various states have decided to invest a limited amount of funds each into your program. This program allows you to get around the limitations that individuals states typically have with such programs (including international laws prohibiting certain tests in space and the use of certain equipment. An international org. could argue in its founding charter, perhaps, to waive such restrictions if the benifits are spread evenly to all states).

You receive funding from member nations of the United Nations, but you have a separate governing body and your funds do not go through the U.N., but come directly from the states (the IAEA and IMF act in a similar manner). Most of your funding comes from the major space faring nations, but a certain minimum contribution allows any state to benifit from the discoveries you make.

The U.N. plan was to allow various states throughout the world some way to divert jobs and infrastructure and spending away from weapons, weapons development, and the military toward space exploration, while hopefully keeping the jobs orignially there. Now, since this is the expectation of the member nations, you have to play VERY PICKY parochial politics when deciding where mission components get built, rockets get built, where technicians get hired from, etc. You have to, in a way, greatly worry yourself with the petty politics of making sure the people who fund your program are getting benifits (and any nation that feels that it's not getting it's fare share will probably complain. If the situation doesn't improve, they may cut funding or found an independent space agency. Conversely, they may drop the whole concept all together re-allocate that labor to their weapons development programs, and arms build-up).

So, politically, if you succeed, you will precariously hold the various states together for the purpose of funding the projects for your organization. If you fail politically, you not only may see the cancellation of your project, but the return to high military spending and arms build-up, since that is the industry most capable of putting the workers that used to work for you back in the labor force. If you, fail the world in fact become s more dangerous, blaw, blaw, blaw.

SCIENTIFICALLY: Your mission, the official reason you were created (beyond being a chief employer of engineers and scientists and practising petty politics for funding) is to explore and colonize the solar system and beyond. You get kuddos for doing things of scientific value from the scientific community, who are your chief supporters. However, these people don't have very much political clout, and doing things that would advance the standard of living on Earth or expand the oportunites for humans in space would be more valued by your funding sources. You job then is to research technology for space travel, planetary exploration, and such, and to actually travel to and establish bases and exploratory outposts beyond Earth. Your next goal is to start creating economic gains from the solar system. Your ultimate goal is to explore and colonize the entire system.

posted 11-24-98 08:47 AM ET            

Ok, the idea here is that Humanity has already moved far out into the imediate area of interstellar space and has many colonies in the local area of stars (for simplicity and realism, you could use an area no larger than about 20 light years already inhabited so that all inhabited stars fall within real known space). Humanity's discovery of near light-speed travel has now been surpased by a method of exceeding light speed by getitng around it somehow (I don't care how, just make something up just like every other sci-fi game of this nature). The various colonies are highly accumstomed to their isolation and don't like the idea that they can now much more closely be controlled by Earth, whose government has grown corrupt and decadent. Within time, groups of colonies begin rebelling against central authority, being lead by ideological zealots of various forms. The various colonies allign themselves to particular movements based upon political culture, history, and in some cases geography. Most colonies choose to remain independent, although continue to trade as independent states, from the various ideological movements that wish to reunify humanity under their particular ideal. With a wealth of independent states (AI controlled) that can ally and fight one another if disputes evolve and the ideological movements that wish to reunify humanity in their own vision (of course seeking through diplomacy or force to conver the people's of the various independent states).

Earth falls into internal turmoil and is unable to put down the sheer amount of revot (while what there was of a "fleet" is mostly left to defend Earth from the various groups of rebels). The various independent states are mostly not interested at all in taking control of Earth (or the trouble it would be), but with simply maintaining their own indepenedence (unless persuaded by diplomacy to join one of the ideological movements, something harder to do as an independent state becomes more set on independence). The ideological movements, however, wish to take control of Earth, passify it, convert it to their movement, and use it as the central base to reunify humanity in their image.

MEANWHILE, various independent states or ideological movements can use exploration and colonization at new levels with the new found beyond light speed technologies. But this will be limited to nearly nothing as most resources will be concentrated on the war effort between states. While the civil war is being faught (at a different time for each level, perhaps even after the civil war is over), an alien race will make first contact with humanity. There should be more than one alien race, but perhaps only one alien race that is a high-tech space faring one. Humanity may, in fact, encounter several alien species, but most will probably be pre-space faring. How humanity deals with the aliens will probably reflect the political situation at the time of first contact and which ideological movement (faction) makes contact or gains control. The rest of the game would be affected by the dynamic of attempting peaceful relations with the alien neighbors (or warlike if that is the view of the ruling faction).

I would think the game would be much more provocative and enjoyable if the aliens are at first peaceful and still below above light speed technology. It would be known to this civilization that other beyond light speed civilizations do exist, but it does not know too many details. In this manner, humanity would have to develop a regional leadership position, but at the games end would encounter one of the elusive above light speed races that don't consider the area humanity inhabits very important and exists mostly some distance off.

posted 11-24-98 06:32 PM ET            

I would want Parliament to be highly hackable so I or other internet users could set up their own political systems in various real and historical and imaginary countries.

The 2nd one looks interesting, but I don't think it could ever have widespread appeal. Petty Politics tinkering can be fun, but a whole game on it? You make it seem like the space program part is tacked on. If it focused more on space it could be more viable.

The 3rd looks excellent as well. Having the aliens come after the civil war would be silly though, there'd be nothing to do except monitor all your planets, sort of like playing Civ after all your opponents are dead. Otherwise, a fantastic game possibility. Email it to Mike after the demo comes out.

posted 11-24-98 10:06 PM ET            

Too bad my plans include finishing out college and going to grad school :-) (Speaking of which, I should get back to my term paper due tomorow :-))

posted 11-25-98 12:02 AM ET            

T.A kingdoms should go a long way towards this "next step", but I would like something along the lines of Civ - start up and just play the same game continuously for 20 hours or so.

I envisages something along the lines of Starcraft (DON'T mention the A.I), but with many more options, both in construction and design of units and diplomacy. I just mention this to set the scene for ideas to come. Set in the future, with aliens, like.

While ultimately an RTS, in the sense that you need to react to events immediately, there needs to be many areas of influence rather than just the actual game map. Something along the lines of privateer/Civ, with a weapons/personal market, research tree, dipomacy interface, allowing you to fully interact with the environment, both physical and political.

In the beginning, you start out with a fairly small force, and only one planet, distant and isolated, to explore. The planet has numerous areas of interest, each of large, but limited size (your can't escape having a set mapsize), and with a few access points/dropzones/harbours/whatever. Each area may have numerous features, such as rival troop locations, mineral resources, water, access to merchants, etc. Your interface allows you to move from location to location, according to your units present, so you are simultainiously managing mining, building and combat on many fronts at once, and defeat in one area is not necessarily a disaster. (You can also try to retreat if the situation turns grim, or beg with your rivals for mercy). This would necessitate a good A.I, allowing you to leave your soliders alone for periods of time to follow your orders (or defect if overwhelmed with low morale...), as well a sophisticated command list, e.g give Alert if encountering enemys, do not engage, fight to the death...

Population is extremely low, so purchasing new equipment and personal is difficult, even finding a few marines can be a tough exercise (Thus you get personality). Each solider has his/her own set of skills, namely footspeed, weaponskill, engineering, piloting, leadership and so forth. So you could hire a team of elite commandos, but don't expect them to be any good behind the controls of a gyrochopper or Mechanoid. And if you leave a poor leader in charge, don't be surprised to find your troops engaged in a full-on charge at an overwhelming enemy.

With longer building times and more individual emphasis, you get the ability to fit weapons and special equipment to individual units and vehicles (though you have to steal or pay for them), so a large degree of customisability enters the game.

Once you conquer your first planet, or simply gain enough money and prestige to negotiate with the space merchants, you can begin to expand into the wider universe. Hire your forces out as mercenaries, find new isolated worlds to pillage, and begin to enjoy a small measure of fame and influence in the cluster.
Purchase a harvester at a space station and mine the asteroid belt.

Not really a very original idea, if you've played Civ or any similar game, but with the whole thing set in real time you get a huge leap in gameplay.

posted 11-26-98 12:09 PM ET            

Arnelos: The Parliament idea is great. Different parties with different goals in the same nation could give very interesting diplomacy.

fred: Colonization 2 would be very welcome. Or at least a game with a similar economic system. I loved the ways you could choose how to specialize the cities on different production.

posted 11-26-98 12:58 PM ET            

Here's my idea: Conspiracies and Secret Societies. The premise is that you run some sort of secret organization (like a government conspiracy from the X-Files, or an acient order like the Millenium Group, or some other group that doesn't have a series on Fox...). This organization can do all sorts of subversive things like blackmail, assassinations, bribery, kidnapping, etc., all to further their own ends. But the trick is that if you do too much, you risk exposure and the populace will turn against you. Since your organization is small, you could never hope to defeat the entire population in open warfare, so you've got to make all your moves behind the scenes. Stuff like rigging elections and having your agents infiltrate other secret organizations would be commonplace. I think it could be quite a bit of fun. I think the strategies would be a bit more abstract than in Civ and SMAC (since geography wouldn't be as much of an issue) so it might be an interesting change.

About the RTS suggestions: RTS games are sometimes fun, and they have their place. However, for a really fun game I like Turn-Based, because I can sit and think and ponder at my liesure. That is why I buy games, so I can have fun, not so I can engage in frantic clicking when things go wrong and I need to use a clunky interface to recover from a bad situation. Sid and Brian have proven that they can make really fun turn based strategy games. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

posted 11-26-98 01:10 PM ET            

Mundane plan: Assassinate the US President.

posted 11-27-98 02:49 AM ET            

In the Pirates! manual there are little bits and pieces called "The Memoirs of Capt'n Sid"

Here is a little extract form one of them...
"Capitains todays are all lily-livered cowards! In my time it was the mark of a capitain that he could take a Galleon with a pinnace. Aye, I did it me slef off Yucutan. 'Twas a laggardly galleon from the treasure fleet, beating upwind to Havana. We took the weather gauge, danced around her broadsides, gave her a few cannonades around the stern, and boarded 'em. Our firen' had the Dons half demoralised already - I bloody'd 'em some, and the battle was done."

posted 12-02-98 06:31 PM ET            

Scenario: Humans have colonized most of the solar system (asteroid belt, other planets, etc), but have not achieved interstellar travel. Thus, the game would be limited to one solar system. The solar system is polarized and a revolution is in progress.

posted 12-05-98 03:06 AM ET            

It will be great material for a empire-building game.

Not to mention the fan base.

Osmanthus - revived (this article only)

posted 12-24-98 04:45 AM ET            

I've never played Pirates, but if Firaxis were to do a similar game, I'd love to try it. (Heck, I'd like to try the original, but I don't know where I'd find it.)