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Author Topic:   Peacekeepers II

Roland posted 11-16-98 08:35 AM ET
Brothers and sisters of the PK, as the old PK thread was rather long and transcended into oblivion, I'll strat this new one.
The gamespot preview for the PK reads:
"Peacekeeping Forces
The humanitarian democracy known as the Peacekeeping Forces is led by Commissioner Pravin Lal. Because the Peacekeepers have a large bureaucracy, they are less efficient than other factions, but they attract more intellectual talents, have more clout in the planet's democratic council, and can exceed the population limits that other factions must live by."
Less efficient does not sound good, but on the other hand, this should men a pretty good balance in all things.
I wonder how the other things are implemented:
1. Attract intellectual talent: from "inside" or from the other factions ? About dissenters from other factions: One should think that most people on the Unity are in line with the UN ideals upheld by the PK; only the pods make the people split evenly between the factions. So why not make the PK attractive for dissenters ?
2. More clout in the planetary council. I guess this is a diplomacy/reputation bonus, not more voting power.
3. Population growth. This is the most surprising one for me. Which limits ? That of base improvements ? If so, I fail to see a reason why the OP could grow without them - just because of better administration ? Anyway, I think this is a rather strong advantage.
Ending with PK quotes.
"Treat people as if they were what they ought to be, and you help them to become what they are capable of becoming."
(Goethe)
"Never esteem anything as of advantage to thee that shall make thee break thy word or lose thy self-respect."
(Marcus Aurelius)
"Mankind is at its best when it is most free. This will be clear if we grasp the principle of liberty. We must recall that the basic principle of liberty is freedom of choice, which saying many have on their lips but few in their minds."
(Dante Alighieri)
Roland posted 11-16-98 08:38 AM ET
PS: sorry for typos. OP should be PK, of course.
Roland posted 11-17-98 08:46 AM ET
Hey, what happened to all the PKs ? Allergic to ontopicness ? Not interested in the strengths and weaknesses of the PK faction ?
I gotta say, from the description in the preview, I like the PK even more then before, and not just for the rhyme.
MikeH II posted 11-17-98 08:48 AM ET
Glad to see you are no longer a Morganite anyway.
Roland posted 11-17-98 09:02 AM ET
Well, I've been a Morganite just for the controversy...
MikeH II posted 11-17-98 09:07 AM ET
I know.
I'm a Spartan because it's the most fun. I'll probably pick the UoP as a second choice. Then I'll probably play as the tree huggers third just to salve my concience at ruining the world with war (and to play with the mind worms).
MikeH II posted 11-17-98 09:08 AM ET
You've got twice as many posts as me!!
I hate that. I am so busy at work at the moment I won't be able to post much for a while. I'll have to post from home
Roland posted 11-17-98 01:44 PM ET
Well, Mike, I think deep in your heart you are a peacekeeper! Come on, admit it!
Apocalypse posted 11-19-98 08:52 PM ET
Hey vets, remember when the PKs were the Keepers of Wisdom?
Brother Will Moeller,
Peacekeeper,
Gunman of the Apocalypse,
Verge of Wraith,
Phalanx of Forums,
The Prophet of the Servers
RyanR posted 11-17-98 11:36 PM ET
I find the last part of the last sentece very mysterious! There must be some sort of population limit on the factions. Maybe this is so they don't repeat what happened on Earth??? But who enforces these population rules???
RyanR
Supreme Dictator of the Peacekeeping Forces
Apocalypse posted 11-19-98 08:57 PM ET
Hey vets, remember when the PKs were the Keepers of Wisdom?
Brother Will Moeller,
Peacekeeper,
Gunman of the Apocalypse,
Verge of Wraith,
Phalanx of Forums,
The Prophet of the Servers
Brother Greg posted 11-17-98 11:43 PM ET
I think it is more a gameplay limitation. Like how in CIV II, the largest city you could have was, like, 42 or something. Simply because you couldn't make enough food to feed any more than that.
Now, as to why the PKs can break that, I have no idea. Probably won't until the game ships, or we see the demo...
Still, any speculation?
Brother Greg.
Brother Greg posted 11-17-98 11:49 PM ET
Also, what's the details of the "less efficient"? Does this mean that when building things, it take us more shields, um CIV II terminology, um, minerals to build?
Does it mean that we collect more energy?
Does it mean that despite the fact that we attract the best scientists, our research itself is inneficient?
Does it mean that we harvest less food?
Or is it all of the above? I tend to doubt the last two would have anything to do with it, as why give us a science bonus, then take it away, and it would be silly if we had greater population limits, yet produced less food.
So, inneficient building (via minerals), or less cash (Energy), or both?
I tend to think the minerals, but am open to opinions...
Brother Greg.
(my 100th post)
Brother Greg posted 11-19-98 09:33 PM ET
I tried looking at 1 or 2 of the Gamespot pics, but they were all too small, so I didn't bother...
And Apoc, remember when I started the KOW thread? Empty in there for a while. Weren't too many of us around back then...
Ah, those were the days...
Brother Greg.
Brother Greg posted 11-17-98 11:50 PM ET
Sorry, less energy...
Brother Greg.
RyanR posted 11-20-98 12:56 AM ET
I do. I was here before they transfered to this "Ultimate Bulliten Board" System.
Amen Brother Greg!
RyanR
/\/ / /\/
Arnelos posted 11-18-98 12:59 AM ET
RyanR, quit your blasphemy! How can you be supreme dictator of the peacekeepers?! This is a contradiction in terms. Read the peacekeeper faction profile (paying particular attention to the quote from Pravin Lal, our great leader).
Brother Greg posted 11-20-98 01:11 AM ET
RyanR, what is /\///\/?
It is supposed to be /\/|/\/\...
Brother Greg.
RyanR posted 11-18-98 03:03 AM ET
Its a joke Arnelos
I think it might mean like "waste" in civ2
RyanR
Supreme _Dictator_ of the Peacekeeping Forces

PS I'm going to get some web space to set up the message board if it takes my whole life!
RyanR posted 11-20-98 01:30 AM ET
Hmm.. I guess my memory is going bad. I thought it started as NIN and eventually transformed into NIM?
/\/ / \/\
RyanR
Brother Greg posted 11-20-98 01:55 AM ET
No, it started as NIM. Then I typed /\/|/\/\. Then someone thought it was NIN, and came up with Nine Inch nails. I told them they were NINcompoops, and that it was actually NIM. Then they got back on track.
But yeah, a few people thought it was NIN for a while there...
Brother Greg.
Roland posted 11-18-98 08:10 AM ET
On the population limit: I could think of the need for base improvements to go, like in civII, beyond 8, 12, maybe etc..., as mentioned in my first post.
Or it is about the way growth is calculated. Less food surplus ? What about "we-love-days" ? THis is all in civII terms, it may be completely different - anyone know anything about pop. growth ?
Or are there limits for the size of the entire faction, maybe depending on the tech level ?
MikeH II posted 11-18-98 08:19 AM ET
I assumed the ineffeciency was based on red tape and therefore would effect production AND research. We'll see.
RyanR posted 11-20-98 09:55 PM ET
I was talking about the "Amen Brother Greg" post. I never did know what started it.
RyanR
Supreme Dictator of the Peacekeeping Forces
Roland posted 11-18-98 02:51 PM ET
...and trade, I suppose.
It's hard to attribute a particular disadvantage to the Peacekeepers, so we have in general less effeciency. They may be more the result of game balancing than of the PK profile. But I still wonder what that will be exactly.
Including effeciency of police in controlling riots ? Or effeciency of various base improvements ?
Brother Greg posted 11-18-98 08:10 PM ET
Just came accross another quote which suits the PKs down to the ground:
"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -- Brother Douglas Adams
Brother Greg.
Brother Greg posted 11-19-98 01:35 AM ET
Actually, I just noticed that the badge on the UN Headquarters (Cool Stuff) is different to the one on Brother Lal's bio. It looks more like the current UN badge.
Wonder if this means it has changed? I never did like the one on Brother Lal's bio.
Brother Greg.
Roland posted 11-19-98 08:56 AM ET
You mean the blue circle with the three stars or so in it ? It looks like a mix of UN and United federation of planets. Just appropriate for the PK, I'd say.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."
- Commissioner Pravin Lal, "Librarian's Preface"
RyanR posted 11-19-98 08:55 PM ET
We know it has changed. Take a good look at the Gamespot preveiw pics.
RyanR
Supreme _Dictator_ of the Peacekeeping Forces
Apocalypse posted 11-19-98 08:58 PM ET
Hey vets, remember when the PKs were the Keepers of Wisdom?
Brother Will Moeller,
Peacekeeper,
Gunman of the Apocalypse,
Verge of Wraith,
Phalanx of Forums,
The Prophet of the Servers
Brother Greg posted 11-19-98 09:35 PM ET
I tried looking at 1 or 2 of the Gamespot pics, but they were all too small, so I didn't bother...
And Apoc, remember when I started the KOW thread? Empty in there for a while. Weren't too many of us around back then...
Ah, those were the days...
Brother Greg.
RyanR posted 11-20-98 01:01 AM ET
I do. I was around before www.alphacentauri.com (when it was under the firaxis.com domain).
Amen Brother Greg
/\/ / /\/

RyanR
Brother Greg posted 11-20-98 01:12 AM ET
RyanR, what is /\///\/?
It is supposed to be /\/|/\/\...
Brother Greg.
RyanR posted 11-20-98 01:34 AM ET
Hmm.. I guess my memory is going bad. I thought it started as NIN and eventually transformed into NIM?
/\/ / \/\
RyanR
Brother Greg posted 11-20-98 01:56 AM ET
No, it started as NIM. Then I typed /\/|/\/\. Then someone thought it was NIN, and came up with Nine Inch nails. I told them they were NINcompoops, and that it was actually NIM. Then they got back on track.
But yeah, a few people thought it was NIN for a while there...
Brother Greg.
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Author	Topic: Peacekeepers II
Roland	posted 11-16-98 08:35 AM ET Brothers and sisters of the PK, as the old PK thread was rather long and transcended into oblivion, I'll strat this new one. The gamespot preview for the PK reads: "Peacekeeping Forces The humanitarian democracy known as the Peacekeeping Forces is led by Commissioner Pravin Lal. Because the Peacekeepers have a large bureaucracy, they are less efficient than other factions, but they attract more intellectual talents, have more clout in the planet's democratic council, and can exceed the population limits that other factions must live by." Less efficient does not sound good, but on the other hand, this should men a pretty good balance in all things. I wonder how the other things are implemented: 1. Attract intellectual talent: from "inside" or from the other factions ? About dissenters from other factions: One should think that most people on the Unity are in line with the UN ideals upheld by the PK; only the pods make the people split evenly between the factions. So why not make the PK attractive for dissenters ? 2. More clout in the planetary council. I guess this is a diplomacy/reputation bonus, not more voting power. 3. Population growth. This is the most surprising one for me. Which limits ? That of base improvements ? If so, I fail to see a reason why the OP could grow without them - just because of better administration ? Anyway, I think this is a rather strong advantage. Ending with PK quotes. "Treat people as if they were what they ought to be, and you help them to become what they are capable of becoming." (Goethe) "Never esteem anything as of advantage to thee that shall make thee break thy word or lose thy self-respect." (Marcus Aurelius) "Mankind is at its best when it is most free. This will be clear if we grasp the principle of liberty. We must recall that the basic principle of liberty is freedom of choice, which saying many have on their lips but few in their minds." (Dante Alighieri)
Roland	posted 11-16-98 08:38 AM ET PS: sorry for typos. OP should be PK, of course.
Roland	posted 11-17-98 08:46 AM ET Hey, what happened to all the PKs ? Allergic to ontopicness ? Not interested in the strengths and weaknesses of the PK faction ? I gotta say, from the description in the preview, I like the PK even more then before, and not just for the rhyme.
MikeH II	posted 11-17-98 08:48 AM ET Glad to see you are no longer a Morganite anyway.
Roland	posted 11-17-98 09:02 AM ET Well, I've been a Morganite just for the controversy...
MikeH II	posted 11-17-98 09:07 AM ET I know. I'm a Spartan because it's the most fun. I'll probably pick the UoP as a second choice. Then I'll probably play as the tree huggers third just to salve my concience at ruining the world with war (and to play with the mind worms).
MikeH II	posted 11-17-98 09:08 AM ET You've got twice as many posts as me!! I hate that. I am so busy at work at the moment I won't be able to post much for a while. I'll have to post from home
Roland	posted 11-17-98 01:44 PM ET Well, Mike, I think deep in your heart you are a peacekeeper! Come on, admit it!
Apocalypse	posted 11-19-98 08:52 PM ET Hey vets, remember when the PKs were the Keepers of Wisdom? Brother Will Moeller, Peacekeeper, Gunman of the Apocalypse, Verge of Wraith, Phalanx of Forums, The Prophet of the Servers
RyanR	posted 11-17-98 11:36 PM ET I find the last part of the last sentece very mysterious! There must be some sort of population limit on the factions. Maybe this is so they don't repeat what happened on Earth??? But who enforces these population rules??? RyanR Supreme Dictator of the Peacekeeping Forces
Apocalypse	posted 11-19-98 08:57 PM ET Hey vets, remember when the PKs were the Keepers of Wisdom? Brother Will Moeller, Peacekeeper, Gunman of the Apocalypse, Verge of Wraith, Phalanx of Forums, The Prophet of the Servers
Brother Greg	posted 11-17-98 11:43 PM ET I think it is more a gameplay limitation. Like how in CIV II, the largest city you could have was, like, 42 or something. Simply because you couldn't make enough food to feed any more than that. Now, as to why the PKs can break that, I have no idea. Probably won't until the game ships, or we see the demo... Still, any speculation? Brother Greg.
Brother Greg	posted 11-17-98 11:49 PM ET Also, what's the details of the "less efficient"? Does this mean that when building things, it take us more shields, um CIV II terminology, um, minerals to build? Does it mean that we collect more energy? Does it mean that despite the fact that we attract the best scientists, our research itself is inneficient? Does it mean that we harvest less food? Or is it all of the above? I tend to doubt the last two would have anything to do with it, as why give us a science bonus, then take it away, and it would be silly if we had greater population limits, yet produced less food. So, inneficient building (via minerals), or less cash (Energy), or both? I tend to think the minerals, but am open to opinions... Brother Greg. (my 100th post)
Brother Greg	posted 11-19-98 09:33 PM ET I tried looking at 1 or 2 of the Gamespot pics, but they were all too small, so I didn't bother... And Apoc, remember when I started the KOW thread? Empty in there for a while. Weren't too many of us around back then... Ah, those were the days... Brother Greg.
Brother Greg	posted 11-17-98 11:50 PM ET Sorry, less energy... Brother Greg.
RyanR	posted 11-20-98 12:56 AM ET I do. I was here before they transfered to this "Ultimate Bulliten Board" System. Amen Brother Greg! RyanR /\/ / /\/
Arnelos	posted 11-18-98 12:59 AM ET RyanR, quit your blasphemy! How can you be supreme dictator of the peacekeepers?! This is a contradiction in terms. Read the peacekeeper faction profile (paying particular attention to the quote from Pravin Lal, our great leader).
Brother Greg	posted 11-20-98 01:11 AM ET RyanR, what is /\///\/? It is supposed to be /\/\|/\/\... Brother Greg.
RyanR	posted 11-18-98 03:03 AM ET Its a joke Arnelos I think it might mean like "waste" in civ2 RyanR Supreme _Dictator_ of the Peacekeeping Forces PS I'm going to get some web space to set up the message board if it takes my whole life!
RyanR	posted 11-20-98 01:30 AM ET Hmm.. I guess my memory is going bad. I thought it started as NIN and eventually transformed into NIM? /\/ / \/\ RyanR
Brother Greg	posted 11-20-98 01:55 AM ET No, it started as NIM. Then I typed /\/\|/\/\. Then someone thought it was NIN, and came up with Nine Inch nails. I told them they were NINcompoops, and that it was actually NIM. Then they got back on track. But yeah, a few people thought it was NIN for a while there... Brother Greg.
Roland	posted 11-18-98 08:10 AM ET On the population limit: I could think of the need for base improvements to go, like in civII, beyond 8, 12, maybe etc..., as mentioned in my first post. Or it is about the way growth is calculated. Less food surplus ? What about "we-love-days" ? THis is all in civII terms, it may be completely different - anyone know anything about pop. growth ? Or are there limits for the size of the entire faction, maybe depending on the tech level ?
MikeH II	posted 11-18-98 08:19 AM ET I assumed the ineffeciency was based on red tape and therefore would effect production AND research. We'll see.
RyanR	posted 11-20-98 09:55 PM ET I was talking about the "Amen Brother Greg" post. I never did know what started it. RyanR Supreme Dictator of the Peacekeeping Forces
Roland	posted 11-18-98 02:51 PM ET ...and trade, I suppose. It's hard to attribute a particular disadvantage to the Peacekeepers, so we have in general less effeciency. They may be more the result of game balancing than of the PK profile. But I still wonder what that will be exactly. Including effeciency of police in controlling riots ? Or effeciency of various base improvements ?
Brother Greg	posted 11-18-98 08:10 PM ET Just came accross another quote which suits the PKs down to the ground: "Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -- Brother Douglas Adams Brother Greg.
Brother Greg	posted 11-19-98 01:35 AM ET Actually, I just noticed that the badge on the UN Headquarters (Cool Stuff) is different to the one on Brother Lal's bio. It looks more like the current UN badge. Wonder if this means it has changed? I never did like the one on Brother Lal's bio. Brother Greg.
Roland	posted 11-19-98 08:56 AM ET You mean the blue circle with the three stars or so in it ? It looks like a mix of UN and United federation of planets. Just appropriate for the PK, I'd say. "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master." - Commissioner Pravin Lal, "Librarian's Preface"
RyanR	posted 11-19-98 08:55 PM ET We know it has changed. Take a good look at the Gamespot preveiw pics. RyanR Supreme _Dictator_ of the Peacekeeping Forces
Apocalypse	posted 11-19-98 08:58 PM ET Hey vets, remember when the PKs were the Keepers of Wisdom? Brother Will Moeller, Peacekeeper, Gunman of the Apocalypse, Verge of Wraith, Phalanx of Forums, The Prophet of the Servers
Brother Greg	posted 11-19-98 09:35 PM ET I tried looking at 1 or 2 of the Gamespot pics, but they were all too small, so I didn't bother... And Apoc, remember when I started the KOW thread? Empty in there for a while. Weren't too many of us around back then... Ah, those were the days... Brother Greg.
RyanR	posted 11-20-98 01:01 AM ET I do. I was around before www.alphacentauri.com (when it was under the firaxis.com domain). Amen Brother Greg /\/ / /\/ RyanR
Brother Greg	posted 11-20-98 01:12 AM ET RyanR, what is /\///\/? It is supposed to be /\/\|/\/\... Brother Greg.
RyanR	posted 11-20-98 01:34 AM ET Hmm.. I guess my memory is going bad. I thought it started as NIN and eventually transformed into NIM? /\/ / \/\ RyanR
Brother Greg	posted 11-20-98 01:56 AM ET No, it started as NIM. Then I typed /\/\|/\/\. Then someone thought it was NIN, and came up with Nine Inch nails. I told them they were NINcompoops, and that it was actually NIM. Then they got back on track. But yeah, a few people thought it was NIN for a while there... Brother Greg.