posted 11-16-98 02:40 PM ET            

Just as I thought ... a higher percentage of Athiests in here !!!

If you saw the movie Contact (excellent movie to understand an athiest's point of view BTW, you would have noticed the reference to 95% of the worlds population believing in some form of devine being !!!

here, it's more like 53% believe !!!
The Athiests go from 5% to 47% !!!
That's one huge jump if you ask me !!!

posted 11-17-98 10:21 AM ET            

I thought that it was just as appealing to christians as to atheists. Until the very end that is :-)

I wouldn't be surprised if US has a higher ratio of believers than Europe. I always thought of Americans as far too religious, that would just confirm my feelings :-)

Europe has also an unfortunate number of christians (Poland I think has something like more then 90% of catholics. What a bunch of hypocrites!). I find it rather disturbing that a small obscure sect managed to raise to power, terrorise the world for two millenia, and the world still tolerates it. A parallel to what happened might be: US president becomes a scientologist (which is not that unlikely, considering how many US celebrities have gone completely mad in this way). He begins spreading the word in US and all around the world (ok, so he might not have as much power as Roman emperor, but still, he can do quite a bit). Two thousend years later, it will be a well known fact that Ron Hubbard was born to a virgin. And was immortal, allmighty and performed miracles to kill some time. What about the records that contradict this (like this one)? Well, 2k years is enough to 'lose' any unwanted evidence. And you can always say that we were just jealous heretics who have spread lies to stop the 'real religion' from taking over our wealth and power. Sounds familiar?

To any potentially offended Poles, I'm a Pole by birth, so I think I have some right to criticise :-). I like Poland, but I'm not proud of the catholic thing.

Sorry about the rant, I just get depressed about the numbers. 95%. Damn. Does anyone know about any objective (i.e. not done in vatican) research into this?

Is this how it feels to be a minority? :-(

posted 11-19-98 11:30 PM ET            

I think the universe has a definite starting point. Probably somewhere between 15 and 20 billion years ago. As such, it does not matter if the universe is really infinite(according to current theory), because only events within 15 to 20 billion light years of us could possibly effect us(and then only if the event occured at an appropriate earlier time). However, I feel that the universe is not infinite, but is boundless in the sense that the Earth's surface is not infinite, but has no end.

posted 11-18-98 01:38 AM ET            

dushan:
"Europe has also an unfortunate number of christians"

Um. . .how is being Christian "unfortunate"?

posted 11-18-98 11:33 PM ET            

Some of my best friends are christian. In fact, in one stage of my life I have tried very hard to become one myself. I find many aspects of christianity very attractive. I also find some aspects disturbing, and that is why I am not a christian. I understand how for many people the good points outweigh the bad ones and I respect their decision.

Some things worry me though. My little brother, even though he's an atheist, goes to a catholic school, just because it's better (equipped, staffed, etc.) then any other around. And he's not the only one. Jehova's witnesses knock on my door and tell me that the world is ending any time now and I have to pray to their lord for my salvation. On Leicester square you're bound to meet a buch of guys shouting at you that Jesus loves you. Many countries have political parties based purely on religion (some are even in power!). May be I'm wrong, but I feel none of the above should be happening, and that occasionally frustrates me.

I, as an atheist, am a minority. Sometimes it saddens me a bit. I have examined a lot of evidence over many years, weighed it all as objectively as I could and found that christianity does not stand up to such scrutiny. Assuming that everyone has made a concious, informed decision as to what religion is 'right', 95% of people have come to an opposite decision (I guess the percentage of christians might be lower, but is still probably a lot higher than that of atheists). So I must either think that 95% of people are wrong, or that I am wrong. Clearly the earlier is a lot more difficult to do, and I often resume my quest for the truth. :-) Unfortunately most of the new evidence enforces my atheist views. (as I like to say: "All one needs to do to become an Atheist, is to read the Bible." - I find it impossible to swallow the Old Testament, I'd find it much more straightforward to accept christianity if Jesus and his followers would not base their religion on it...)

So there you go - that's why I might describe the number of christians as unfortunate. I believe that christians feel the same way about us, in a way we both feel sorry for each other.

I hope that by the a**-hole atheists you didn't refer to me :-), my last post was meant to (and failed to) stir things up, not to offend anyone. It was one sided and exaggerated on purpose and most of it didn't reflect my opinions.

posted 11-19-98 01:05 AM ET            

I don't understand our little religion statistics either. It seems that with all the people who must read these threads, only a small portion was represtented, maybe it was the people who value religion/not religion or are trying to figure stuff out for themselves were the ones who posted to this thread, so the people who are kinda like "Yeah, I believe in a God I guess... Whatever" didn't bother posting. Just a thought.

posted 11-19-98 08:08 AM ET            

Larry Boy, I'm afraid I can't see the fact that the religious guy slept with the lady as hypocritical. I find hypocritical when protestants kill catholics and catholics kill protestants in name of their religions. I think that only very conservative christians condemn sex before marriage (or am I wrong? if I am, I've got even more ammo against christianity :-) ), and I thought that the guy in the film represented christianity very strongly.

However I agree with your comments on the type of posters into these threads.

posted 11-19-98 09:04 AM ET            

********* Warning Religious People *********
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********** Except for LarryBoy !! **********
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Ok .. Larry .. actually, this isn't all that offensive, but I'm just being on the safe side !!!

As I stated in the thread with Maya's "athiest" text in it, I believe the reason for more athiest people in here is because in MY OPINION, the more scientificly inclined a person is, the less inclined that person is to be religious !!! This does not mean that there aren't any scientificly thinking religious people or that there aren't any imbasilicly non-scientific athiests, I'm just stating what I think is a trend !!!

With that being the case, getting to this forum goes through 3 very important scientific echilons;

- Firstly, the internet and computers, it really goes without saying that people who use the internet and computers tend to be more scientificly inclined than average !!!
- Secondly, Strategy games .. people who enjoy these games tend to be those who understand logistics, algorithms and strategy in general ... and these people are by definition more scientific than the average person !!!
- Thirdly, SciFi, SMAC is a SciFi game, and SciFi is Science Fiction .. this again goes without saying that people who enjoy and understand SciFi also tend to be scientificly minded !!!

So, with these 3 effects acting as a multiplier, to me, it is only natural that there are more Athiests in here per capita than in the "real world" !!! I actually predicted this in an earlier thread somewhere .. but not even I thought it would be this extreme !!! Athiest jump from ~5% to ~45% ... with those number being collected by a religious person, I'm guessing their not biased in the direction of Athiesm !!! So that's all I have to say about that !!!

posted 11-19-98 09:33 AM ET            

Each touched a sensitive spot, made me think, made me sad, made me happy, made me thrilled. Most of the movies we go to see I watch with little/no emotion (mostly just watching out for good special effects), but after SPR, when I left the cinema, I was so pumped up with adrenalin I could take on 100 nazis , and determined to singlehandedly rid the world of wars (bit of a contradiction, but that was part of the fun).

As to your analysis, most of the christians I know are very scientifically minded (though to be honest, most of the people I know are scientifically minded :-), so that's hardly a counter argument). However even though their faith is very strong, some of them suggested that they sometimes question their religion as some things seem a bit illogical.

Being scientifically minded means among other things questioning things that other might consider to be facts, taking nothing for granted, being ready to change your opinion in the face of new evidence (rather then changing/ignoring the evidence). I feel that this may sometimes contradict with the ideals of christianity - so I agree with you that amongst the scientists the ratio of atheists is higher than normal.

So I could probably save you a lot of time by simply saying: DJ RRebel, I agree with you

posted 11-19-98 09:40 AM ET            

I agree with you too !!!

posted 11-19-98 09:45 AM ET            

That was such a powerful movie, it hard to imagine anyone except for Hitler himself not be touched by the ending !!! In fact, I don't think I stopped saying "holy sh!t" repeatedly until an hour after the movie !!!
(so so sorry to you religious people out there, but that's what I said .. don't take it the wrong way at all please)

posted 11-19-98 04:55 PM ET            

17% !!!

Sounds a bit surprising, but if you count the ex-socialistic states, then it becomes plausible.

I can myself cope with religios people, but the fanatics are something else. In my comprehensive school about one fifth was born in a family with very fundamentalistic values. That's due to a "colony" of people who belong to this group of "elder lestadians" or something, they don't have a name in English. A pure Scandinavian pheunomenom.

Their girls have to wear a long dark skirt all the time. Every family has at least 8 children. TV is a sin, so they can't even watch education films at school. One girl was the smartest of her class, but ended up as a nurse, because education isn't suitable for girls.

posted 11-19-98 06:41 PM ET            

Rebel: I definitely appreciate not being censored from your writing. Warmed my heart it did. And in fact, I agree with you to a large extent. Many Christians think once you believe, or have faith in Jesus, you throw out all sense of logic and loyalty to facts. Wrong. Definitely wrong. There are a lot of logical Christians, but there are many who don't think that any knowledge of science is necesary for their religion and in fact, it is not. But it sure does help! And it sure does clarify things! And it sure is just a great thing to know! Athiests on the other hand use science (allmost?) entirely to back their religion because they don't believe in spiritual things. So yeah, I certainly agree with you there. I only hope that you take that rule of yours as a vague generalization and not a law, and I think you made it fairly clear that that was your stance.

Alright, I'm going to go ask if I can go see "Saving Private Ryan" as I wanted to do that so long ago but haven't yet. Once again, I am inspired. Thanks!

Finally, I too think that the lack of aliens in Contact was a very cool thing. The movie was alien enough the way it is, especially with that freakin' awesome machine. Yup! Very thought provoking. OK, I have an alien question for those of you who are athiests and those others of you who believe in them. Actually, first: a question of the universe. Is the universe in your opinion infinite in size, or just really big, and also, is if infinite in time (always has been, always will be), or did it start at the "big bang" or sometime before then? Then,if you answered 'infinite' on either of those questions, is it logical to assume that at some point, every possible type of creature has evolved? And if that is so, shouldn't that mean that a type of inteligent life that is virtually godlike compared to us could be completely manipulating our world? That is, if the universe is infinite. Oh, I'm gonna start an "Belief in aliens, stand and be counted" thread that I would love you all to respond to, then we can discuss it like this one and it'll be cool. Thanks!!!

posted 11-19-98 11:38 PM ET            

I think the universe has a definite starting point. Probably somewhere between 15 and 20 billion years ago. As such, it does not matter if the universe is really infinite(according to current theory), because only events within 15 to 20 billion light years of us could possibly effect us(and then only if the event occured at an appropriate earlier time). However, I feel that the universe is not infinite, but is boundless in the sense that the Earth's surface is not infinite, but has no end.