posted 11-15-98 12:21 AM ET            

I'll have forces positioned to attack Iraq on a minutes notice! Sound familiar?? Ahh the minutemen of old!

America, America, god shed his grace on the.....

posted 11-15-98 04:07 AM ET            

Good luck guys ... wanna trade water for sun ??? lol

You'll never be better than us .. unless you get medicare cut crime and improve your social advantages over night !!!

Good luck to you though .. it's good to know that it is we Canadians who you relly on to gauge your progress !!!

posted 11-15-98 07:49 AM ET            

"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it."
-George Berhard Shaw

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
-Albert Einstein

posted 11-15-98 12:50 PM ET            

Oh say can you see...

posted 11-15-98 02:25 PM ET            

Canada, were able to capture Vimy Ridge, suffered through the mud of Pashendale.

Americans, Battle of the Bulge, D-Day was coordinated by an American

British: Battle of El-Alamein, ummm, any other major victories when they were by themselves??

Germans: Conquered France, Conquered most of Europe

French: Ummm, errrr, lets not go there.

posted 11-15-98 03:35 PM ET            

moderate religion ? "God's own faction" ?

Ronald Reagan ? The Amnesia faction ?

Beat back the bastards ? Who ?

posted 11-15-98 08:14 PM ET            

Wanna know why most of us dislike most seppos? Because of their arrogant belief that they are the best at everything, and woe betide anyone who thinks otherwise. "Americans are the best, and we'll show you why"...

Let's see, second country to put a man into orbit. How that must have hurt. Only country ever to use a Nuke as a weapon. All bow down and worship America, or we'll nuke you. Yeah! And we'll not mention Vietnam, Watergate, Monicagate, the way you have treated the indigenous population, or any other number of incidents that could be dredged up.

Yes, America has done a lot for the world, and I for one am grateful. But that doesn't give you the right to say "We're the best, and if you don't agree, **** you!". And yet, half the American population seems to think just that.

The day America will become truly great, is the day that it stops telling the world how great it is, has a good look at itself, realises that it is not perfect,a nd tries to improve itself. Not to make itself the best, but because it is the right thing to do.

"All of you non-americans are wrong". Yep, that's right, we're all wrong, and America is right. Give me a break!

Australia ain't the best country in the world. And I know it. I'm not ashamed to admit it, and I'm certainly not trying to say that we're better than America. We have our own problems - just look at what we have done to the aborigines. But at least I'm not so arrogant to tell everyone else that we are the best in the world.

My appologies to those Americans like Arnelos, who must hate that stuff themselves. You're not all so conceited as what I have stated in my post, but the ones that are really annoy me.

Someone once said something along the lines of "the only way to really improve yourself is to forget caring about what everyone else thinks, and get on with doing what is right."

Sadly, America isn't at that stage yet, despite how much they like to tell us they are.

Brother Greg Woodstock.

posted 11-15-98 08:34 PM ET            

Stop taking yourself so seriously, stop telling us how good you are, and threatening us if we dare to contradict you. Man, that gets up my nose. And it is a large nose, so it must really be annoying.

For god's sake "They are the true idiots"? Give me a BREAK! That is nothing more than sanctimonious drivel!

YOU are going to pass an exclusion act on ME? And what gives you the right? Oh, sorry, forgot, you're American. Forgot that gives you the right to do anything you want to anyone you want. BAH!

Believe it or not, the world could do without America. Shock, gasp, horror! Yes, you do a lot for the world, however, you aren't perfect, and you don't have the god-given right to lord it over all of the rest of us.

posted 11-15-98 08:37 PM ET            

I'm not the stereo-typical arrogant American. I know we are a good country, but not the best at everything we do. Sometimes I'd like to become prez & fix this country, but all the partisan politics, etc in the house & senate would keep anything from getting done, & this country would be as bad as now, & of course the public would blame me. Public Opinion sucks.

posted 11-15-98 10:32 PM ET            

hehe this Faction won't last long! they will probley ethier blow them selves up or blow alpha centauri up!

*americans fall in lava*

posted 11-15-98 10:50 PM ET            

Hey, we developed almost all of the gun implements you have today. The revolver, the repeating rifle, the metallic cartridge, the first effective light machine gun, the first effective semi-automatic rifle, etc. I guess it goes with the territory. The second ammendment & all.

Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general,
YYYH

posted 11-15-98 11:08 PM ET            

You want to think that you are the best in the world, fine, do so. Just don't tell me every 5 minutes, and don't object if I don't agree with you. "We are great, we are wonderful, bow down and worship us or we will destroy you." ROFL...

And that is EXACTLY what you are saying to me. Glad you don't have the keys to the nukes, or the world would be in ashes because some Russian sneezed at you...

And YOU? Take me down? Don't make me laugh!!! Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Just grow up, and learn to live with those that don't agree with you. Don't force everyone to agree with you, and you'll do allright. Keep on like an arrogant 5 year old school bully, and you'll achieve nothing other than pissing people off.

And Imran, we hated some of Thomas' stands long before you even came to these boards. You didn't create the hatred of Thomas, it has been building for ages.

And as I KEEP ON SAYING, yes, America has done some great things for the world. I for one am thankful for it. But it is not the "Bright Centre of the Universe" (to quote from Star Wars). It is not the fountain of all that is good and holy. You are not the best at everything. And you do not have a god given right to tell everyone you do.

Brother Greg.

P.S. YYYH: America created all the good guns in the world (or words to that effect). If that is indeed a claim to fame, that America created the instruments of death, I don't think it is a good claim to fame.

posted 11-16-98 12:42 AM ET            

He's giving us all a bad name, I don't think I wanna be lead by you anymore. I'm bringing the impeachment inquiry in front of the council right now.....Wait, he didn't do a crime or mis-demeanor. Ok forget that Imran.

Your faithful general guy,
YYYH

PS, Greg: We didn't create the 'instruments of death', we just improved on them. In fact we weren't even a country when they were invented. I think the guns were invented here more of a neccesity. Most of these improvements were invented for our expanding frontier, repeating rifles & revolvers & the such were necessary over there, in case the indians attacked(which was pretty rare, the settlers usually attacked them.) It's not a great claim to fame, nonetheless, but it's still our main buisness. In fact, the state I live in is one of the niggest gun manufacturerers in our country.

PPS, Greg: A cool head is essential if you're a leader like me

posted 11-16-98 02:26 AM ET            

And in fact by doing so you have just confirmed my bad opinion of some seppos who think they are god's gift to the world.

As for not saying "bow down before us", I quoth:
"Don't test my patience, I brought down Stobie, if you don't remember. I have much power, Stobie was hated for a while, and I am not known for my cool-headedness (aka. IU have a short temper)"

Basically, I am wonderful, agree with me, or I'll kill you. Or words to that effect. You shoot yourself down in flames...

Brother Greg.
"I would rather be hated for what I am than loved for what I am not" - someone or other.

P.S. Australians are doing ground breaking research into AIDS, as quoted to me last week in an Aussie show. Stuff no-one has done before. So, please don't try and tell me what I know is right, is wrong...

In fact just recently we produced a trial treatment to prolong the lives of aids sufferers way past what anyone has ever done before. A revolutionary treatment that is a world first.

So, no, sorry, but I realise that next to the glory that is America, of course we are lagging behind. We must be. We're not American after all, so we must be. *cough cough*

P.P.S. YYYH, slander is a misdemenor, isn't it? Defamation of character?

posted 11-16-98 03:36 AM ET            

Well not really we like the rest of the world have trouble. We just like to keep in the family, no foriegns knowing.

posted 11-16-98 04:21 AM ET            

America has achieved much,and that HAS made you quiet vain.

And that's the sad and sorry truth.

And as for this us being protected by America;You know,we never asked for it.

Pay your debt to UN instead and let them do the protecting.

That's what they are for,you know.

posted 11-16-98 06:50 AM ET            

"HA, all of you non-American are wrong."

Naturally, not to say, by definition...

"STOP IT WITH AMNESIA AND ROLAND REAGAN!! He was a great President, the media trumped up his age and made it seem as if he was senile. Damn liberal, Commie, pinko media!!"

Even at his best times, he wasn't really the brightest one. BTW, Dan Quayle is stupid as a brick.

"I will not put a five hundred foot statue of Reagan in the middle of the American faction. "

Gee, why no statue ? I'd like it... the statue of amnesia...

"To all Americans rejoice, we ROCK! To all others who oppose us: **** YOU!"

As long as you don't threaten us with your "beer", we can live with that. Just wondering: Is the intention to **** other people impeachable ?

What level of lack of self confidence do you need to have to say "We are the best..." all the time?

posted 11-16-98 12:50 PM ET            

AK-47 cal 7.62mm X 39mm
M-16 (AR-15) 5.56mm 0r (.223 for the metricly challenged)
FN FAL cal 7.62 x 51 or 7.62 NATO

these are just three battle rifles that are widely used.

eash has strengths and weaknesses
the AK-47 was popular in Vietnam because of some very specific reasons. One-ammo lots of it-two it was built with high tolerances, that is, you could get it dirty and it would still fire. The M-16s weaknesses, the calibre small easily deflected less power and it was subject to jambing. But, the M-16 is more accurate and the ammo weighs a little less (which is important when you are a grunt walking everywhere) if you are mobile infantry then you don't care.

However-lets look at the FN FAL the calibre 7.62 NATO -better round then the other two, the FN is just as battle proven as the AK and can still shoot when dirty. It is also just as accurate as the M-16-it's drawbacks-it's heavy and it's ammo is heavy.

And if the AK-47 was so good then why did the Russians go to the AK-74?

Just my two cents worth.

posted 11-16-98 01:02 PM ET            

To all non Americans who have been insulted by an American - I give you my sincere apology. I hope that you do not think that all Americans are vile arrogant creatures. We are not. Most of us just wont to live our lives in peace just like anyone else. To all those attacking the American way of life-I forgive you. Let's move on

posted 11-16-98 01:22 PM ET            

I think I'll check in here to see if you've responded to this query. Apart from this, I'm seriously considering not ever reading anything written by you again, if I can avoid it.

I'll relate an experience of which I for some reason was reminded:

One day I was on the tube on my way into Stockholm, and an approximately 12-year old boy steps into the carriage. After him comes what is obviously his kid brother, maybe 6-8 years old. The bigger brother pushed out the little boy again, but the smaller brother tried entering again, only to be shoved once more. However, he didn't give up. On his next try, he held onto the sliding door of the subway wagon, and his big brother started hitting and kicking (!) the hands of the little kid. As he released the door, it closed, and the subway train left the station, and the little boy.

Unfortunately, I'd been sitting too far away from the doors to get to them in time to stop this (I am an idealistic interventionist, as opposed to you Americans, who only act if you can make a buck out of it), so when I got there, I could only ask what the bigger brother had been up to.

His response was that I should mind my own business (I might add that his grasp of a varied language was on a par with what a certain poster has shown in this thread...). I then asked him if he'd still think people should mind their own businesses if I started beating on him. He had no answer to that, so I let him stew in his own juices - either he'd get it, or else, I'd right then alienated him so much, as to lose him as an audience.

It may be that we non-adorers of USA (I do think you should think it over - America consists of South as well as North America, and North America happens to include Canada...) have provoked you into an unthinking rage, so you've simply stopped thinking (Since, hard though it is to credit, you seem to like the old Raygun, (Boy, what a pathetic president - have you ever had a worse one?) this may fit.), but I suspect you're older than 12, and furthermore you're the one who's been least civilized here, as well as the one who started attacking people...

posted 11-16-98 03:01 PM ET            

Imran Siddiqui

posted 11-16-98 06:01 PM ET            

You are as ignorant as any prejudice or biggot ever borne. I would like to think when you address someone, that you have the intelligence not to include "all Americans". There are many of us that love this country but do not need to have the satisfaction of having you Euro-trash individuals listen to our patriotism. I am saddened at your prejudiced input. When you say all of America, you are talking about alot of countries. Another thing, unless your country is in this hemisphere, keep the hell out of this forum!

posted 11-16-98 06:37 PM ET            

Got your message.....breaking up,...hard to hear. Am sending....Canadian eigt....to help. We have completely stopped the Euro-Trash front ......still getting sparse...from Cossacks. Ceasar of the Stars, General Jeff Frazier will send.....F17 Strike aircraft directly from......New Mexico.

We have a fix on the Swede rebellion and its.....sympathyzers. Let Iraq practice its chemical warfare.....on the......Euro-trash commies!!!

Long Live Imran, the American way, The Republic, the Tenth Faction!!!

posted 11-16-98 06:55 PM ET            

You don't return the favour by insulting them as Tapiolan did. No, he didn't use any swear words, but he as much as called Imran a child, which is insulting to one's intelligence.

Those of you who know me should know that I always fight back when someone slanders someone else, and on this occasion, I have to take Tapiolan to task. Imran may very well have said some ridiculous, insulting things, but returning the favour is NOT the answer.

And he did appologise, though you may not have seen it. I honestly hope that he sticks by that appology.

Keep it civil people, please. Argue if you must, but don't insult.

And Jeff, your comment "Another thing, unless your country is in this hemisphere, keep the hell out of this forum!" is just as out of place. We're all getting a little heated here, and this is not a good thing.

To all the "innocent" Americans out there, as I constantly stated, I don't judge all of you on a minority, and neither should anyone here. EVERY country has it's bad apples, it's hotheads, and also every country has it's nice, "normal" people. I have a couple of friends in America that I email regularly, and I like them a lot. Never met them, but they come accross as nice people.

Australia has it's bad elements as well. They're called Kiwis from Bondi.

Joking there people...

Okay, so calm down everyone, stop abusing people (swearing or otherwise), and keep it civil.

posted 11-16-98 07:03 PM ET            

I have deep respect for all nations and consider your points as valid. Our Aussie friends are very important part of human civilization. Together, the Japanese and the Asian threat would not have been won without the brave and gallent efforts of your countrymen. As for Sweden, I will not insult there beautiful country, however, I will not do what Mr. Tap did and assume "all" Swedes are as narrow minded as he is.

Imran was having fun, Tap was not. I will not understand anyone not standing up for there national heritage, therefore I can understand anyone having some fun with it, as I believe Imran was. Unfortunately, Mr. Tap took it too heart and began to live his one-sided image of Americans, kind of like the old Soviet Communist block nations used to do.

Again, I stand to help, serve, protect my fellow Free-world compatriots.

posted 11-16-98 07:32 PM ET            

Ok, down to business:

Tap, you post was pathetic at best. In an attempt to degrade Americans on grounds that they are full of themselves, you assert that, of all things, that you are better than Americans for EXTREMELY prejudiced reasons:

"I am an idealistic interventionist, as opposed to you Americans, who only act if you can make a buck out of it."

You know what that quote says, it says "I am a prejudiced stuck-up moron who doesn't know a **** about anything out of a 50 mile radius of Stockholm. Everything I know is based upon my prejudice."

If that wasn't enough, try this:

"old Raygun, (Boy, what a pathetic president - have you ever had a worse one?) this may fit."

First of all, it's spelled Reagan. Second of all, I could quite easily start cutting on the Swedish political system and say that the socialist party in Sweden has fallen short of their goals, couldn't I? But I'm not going to attribute this to any stupidity on the part of Swedes in general or your political culture or your political institutions.

Imran's comments are equally horrid (although admittedly spurred on by idiotic comments like those of Tap).

I will repeat a few quotes I have posted before and then discuss:

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
-Albert Einstein
(the above is my favorite one)

"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it."
-George Berhard Shaw

"Patriot: the person who can holler the loudest without knowing what he is hollering about."
-Mark Twain

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
-Winston Churchhill

For those of you who have read all or even part of my other posts, you know that I am an American who believes strongly in the American political system and American economic system. I also strongly disagree with our way of handling foreign policy at times, our relationship with the rest of the world (I think we ought to be much more conciliatory and take responsibility for our actions, which I think the non-Americans seem to see much more clearly than Americans), and could afford to do more to protect our environment than we do.

Given that background, I am NOT, in any form, an American nationalist (which is contradiction in terms to begin with, American and nation. Most American "nationalists" are really ANGLO-Americans expressing nationalism in their particular national group and it's supposed world dominance. I AM Anglo-American myself, but certainly do not share the sentiment).

Given this background, I am not a patriot in the ethnic, cultural, national, or state sense. I DO believe in Liberal democracy and its spread through-out the world and believe that current liberal democratic internationalist institutions should be expanded (he, I AM a peacekeeper, right?).

I personally view Americans that ignore the value of the rest of the world and think that the United States is hegomonically TOTALLY DOMINANT and we can do whatever we want and ignore everybody else are a source of the problem of both our problems with the world and our lack of good reputation in the international community. The United States, quite arguably, IS indeed the only superpower and the world's great hegemon (we spend over 40% of the world's total military budget and have bases and forces all over the world), but this should not cause a liberal democratic country like the U.S. to suddenly lose all interest in the rest of world and lose all responsibility for its actions outside its borders. I personally view the policy makers who push for such actions as simply deplorable, as many in this country agree (and most non-Americans clearly see).

To respond to Tap's ignorant prejudice, Americans do NOT "only act if you can make a buck out of it." Despite all the critizism of the United States and particularly from the left, in the decade of the 1980s, their views are not based in fact. The reality is that in the United States, we DO have a welfare system, we DO have medicare, medicade, social security, unemployment insurance, family leave, and other programs (although obviously MUCH more moderate than most European states) that compose over 40% of our national budget (the largest bulk going to social security, our program to secure income for retired individuals in their later years of life). In addition, it is popularly believed in the "left" that the 1980s, era of President Reagan, were an "era of greed." The reality does not suggest this at all. The reality is that spending toward charity institutions and other non-profit organizations for a variety of social welfare purposes rose continuously throughout the decade of the 1980s dramaticaly. This rise in spending on charities and non-profit organizations largely reflected the fact that Americans had more money to spend and were more willing to spend it on helping those who needed AND it reflected that Americans are more willing, in many cases, than the citizens of other countries to INDEPENDENTLY ORGANIZE campaigns to aide those in need.

You see, in the United States, if you want something to get done, YOU do it. You get a commmunity together and you do it community by community. You set up charities, you set up non-profit org's, common every-day citizens run them for the direct benifit of those in need. I've spent most of the years of my life working for a non-profit organization in my area called FACETS, which prepares food (at a cost to us) for those who need it. What happens LESS in the United States is government administered and sanctioned (funded by tax payers who don't actually choose to help those in need) welfare. This role is taken up by communities, churches, and private organizations, which do not have to pay for the labor being done (labor, like the labor I've given to FACETS for many years, is given freely. The costs of food and equipment are paid by willing citizens). Thus social welfare can be achieved without the need for expensive political bureacracy. This is not necessarily a "beter way" to do things, as it manytimes causes a reduced amount of aide (since we're relying on independent action), just a different one. Most Europeans and leftists often underestimate the impact that this type of system actually has. In many ways, it is just as effective (and more effective in some ways) than the welfare state system. It also relys on the humanitarian nature of the population (which obviously DOES exist if so many people contribute for all you cynics out there) as the political bureacracy method.

As always, there are benifits and drawbacks to both systems (one that Americans like to point out of the welfare state system is that it tends to cause those supported by it to become "caught" in un-ending poverty), but both are workable systems. It just happens to be that the political culture in one country is more compatible with one way and the political culture of another country is compatible to the other. So what?

I personally view the few differences that exsist between the different elements of the West to be greatly exagerated by most. To a great extent, Europeans (and other non-American Western groups) are much more similar to Americans (and vis-a-visa) than most think. The small differences in political culture tend to be blown way out of proportion. On a global scale, the same tend s to be the case.

FINAL STATEMENT: No country is inherently "better" than any other country. People who say so, even if they happen to be correct, normally don't have any idea what they're talking about. The only differences that are truly important are comparisons of political institutions, since people tend to equally smart or stupid where-ever you go (Einstein once commented about the universal stupidity of humankind, that it was equal in all nations and all states). Most of those differences between differing western democracies tend to be quite minor.

posted 11-16-98 08:09 PM ET            

Points well taken. I agree with what you pointed out about Americans. I am proud to be an American, as you are, but I don't feel I need to parade it around, etc, etc. I don't mind people like Imran announcing there pride for there country. I like to think Americans are still unique in that they still have a soul for politics and there country. Americans need differences, challenges, opposition and alliances. As I recall, Americans are unique in politics because they can compromise there differences. Certainly there has been those seperatists groups, but the majority of Americans, I feel agree with you Arnelos. I don't like being insulted as a nation, but then I like humor. Americans can make humor of things.

I get upset when a person from Europe tries to bring there one-sided image of Americans out. They are obviously uninformed, and that is scary. Perhaps Tap hasn't realized how important US Airmen/women may risk there lives flying an airstrike over Iraq so that he may continue to have his precious freedom to write such prejudice emails? Afterall, I don't think alot of the world realized how much the American taxpayer endures for the worlds peace in military costs? Hey, I know, we can just give up on that world committment issue and let each nation fend for themselves. Sweden is a splindid example of a nation that would be among the first to go down under a European tyrant. If it wasn't for there sypathizing with the Nazi's, they almost certainly would have been invaded. Oh, well, I like Finland much better. Its prettier.

Good points about the welfare system. I agree with your points well, Arnelos. I believe many people outside the US think only of the small amounts of negative information is true. The truth is, negative media coverage sales just as well over seas as it does here.

Good to hear from another ally!

posted 11-16-98 08:54 PM ET            

My forces have finally crushed the last vestage of resistance from the Swedish snow. They died face down trying to surrender. Why, because they had no pride to fight and die with dignity. My forces, The Ceasar of the Stars Corps, stand ready to fight to the death for the stars and stripes!

As I talk, more F1-17 Stealth's prepare to take off at the AFB I live near. They are preparing to strike the enemies of chemical warfare, the villian, Saddam. Why? So that we may all be able to enjoy a good case of SMAC!

My forces will destroy what is left of the old rebellion of your once-loyal followers.
Long live the 10th Faction, the Flag, The corps, our leader Imran!!

Your loyal and faithful General,
Jeff--Ceasar of the Stars--Frazier

posted 11-16-98 09:54 PM ET            

Just stop putting other countries down people. Saying things along the lines of "Man, it is amazing how uninformed Swedes are", and "if they weren't so nazi sympathetic, they would have been crushed" just inflames matters more.

As for complaining about one-sided views of America, don't you think that is a rather uninformed, one-sided view of Sweden?

Tell you what, what if we all just agree to stop bagging each other, stop calling each other names, and say that we are all human, all nice people, and no-one is inherantly better than anyone else?

And that anyone that thinks otherwise is a conceited, pompous, arrogant, well, I could go on, but you get the idea...

Hmmm?

Brother Greg.

P.S. In their own ways, every country out there is great. Yes, even Iraq has something to be proud of, though it may be very, very hard to find out exactly what that is, and even more difficult for us "westerners" to understand it.

Sure, bad Saddam for being a tyrant, bag Clinton for being a lecher. Just don't insult everyone else from their country by saying that every other person must be exactly the same.

posted 11-16-98 11:13 PM ET            

Brother Greg:

"Tell you what, what if we all just agree to stop bagging each other, stop calling each other names, and say that we are all human, all nice people, and no-one is inherantly better than anyone else?"

posted 11-17-98 06:40 AM ET            

First, I saw Imran's rants as ridiculous rather than irritating, and replied in that mood. I definately did not want to insult anyone, but it seems I haven't done so, anyway.

Second, Tap obviously took Imran seriously (ly ly ly, sorrily), and responded in about the same tone, though with a lot more .. ehm.. effectiveness, probably. I think Tap has overdone this, but if you took Imran's rants seriously, it's understandable.

Third, I wanna sign up to Arnelos' well balanced comments and also endorse Brother Greg's view. Just that I don't mind a good fight with words, as long as it's clear that it's nothing personal - as this seems not to be possible here, let's be peaceful.

Fourth, JFraziers comments about "America is unique because..."..." I really doubt you understood what Arnelos said, or I misunderstood him heavily. Other nations manage to "still have a soul for politics and their country" - and I won't start a discussion about voter turnout - , they "need differences, challenges, opposition and alliances", and they "can compromise their differences". And if you "get upset when a person from Europe tries to bring their one-sided image of Americans out. They are obviously uninformed, and that is scary", then you should understand that Europeans (or Canadians or whoever) get upset about a one-sided view of "America is the greatest in all and everything", as this implies that other nations do not manage to be better in a single spot. For the pros and cons of some issues, you just gotta look in Arnelos' long post.

posted 11-17-98 08:17 AM ET            

Anyway, of course I don't think all citizens of USA are alike. I should have written "... some of you Americans ...", of course, or "some people", since greed is not a US prerogative.

Also, I shouldn't have ended my post by belittling anyone's intelligence. Sorry for that.

However, those persons reading my post who didn't get the significance of the fact that my example took place in the Stockholm subway should rethink their positions... I'm not attacking any nation's citizens, even though I _do_ think Ronald Reagan should have stuck with acting (his dementia notwithstanding - it's a political point of view, and, if I remember correctly, you're supposed to let me have personal opinions on these matters, right?). Furthermore, I'd be stupid to claim US citizens are stupid based on your election of RR, since only 7 years ago, the Swedish population elected a man with approximately the same agenda as RR and the monster woman (whose name must not be mentioned) to run Sweden...

Thus, I admit I got a wee bitty-bit too riled, and wrote things I shouldn't have, aimed at Imran.

But hey, Imran, I wrote ONE post, with no profanities, and I urge you to reread your own posts in this thread. Do you feel my reaction was totally unjustified?

Sure, I took your posting seriously. Shouldn't I? I'm a little bit mystified as to how posters identify your posts as humorous, Imran, and mine as deadly, seriously intended insults... Of course, I tend to try being serious when I write about e.g. politics, don't you, Imran?

Finally, Imran, I didn't read your apology. If I had, my post would probably have been more moderate. I think it's better to put comments, reactions, apologies, whatnot in the same thread as the one you're referring to...

posted 11-17-98 08:32 AM ET            

Wie gesagt, Ich verstehe Deinen �rger, wenn Du das Ganze ernst nimmt. Aber lies Imran's Beitr�ge doch noch einmal, und stelle Dir einen zehnj�hrigen vor, der dabei das Gesicht verkneift und mit den Armen herumrudert. Mir ging es ganz automatisch so, und l�cherlich trifft es nun einmal am Besten...

posted 11-17-98 08:40 AM ET            

I have accepted a long time ago that Imran and I are at conflicting ends of the political spectrum. I think we had some good debates without flaming before, I don't really see why this started now.

posted 11-17-98 10:11 AM ET            

I notice one thing I should go into more detail on than I did above, since Arnelos does pose a valid point:

As I said above, I shouldn't have written "... you Americans, who only act if you can make a buck out of it." I should have aimed this sentence at Imran, since he's expressed extreme capitalist leanings, and that was the reason I wrote that sentence in the first place.

Sorry if that hit a sore nerve.

Further, Arnelos, I did not criticize your country's political institutions or the like - I only questioned Imran's choice of Reagan as one of your greatest presidents.

As for your comment on Sweden, actually, I can't think of one human institution, country or whatever, that hasn't proved to be fallible. I'd say we aren't that perfect as a species. But, hopefully, we'll improve ourselves enough not to need to emulate SMAC to survive as a species (nice if we seed the stars anyway, though...).

As for your comment "Imran's comments are equally horrid (although admittedly spurred on by idiotic comments like those of Tap)."

I think I should mention that my comments, though inflammatory in nature, could not have started Imran's ranting, since they came along later than his...

posted 11-17-98 10:18 AM ET            

Er mag l�cherlich sein, aber leider scheint er's ernst zu sein...

posted 11-17-98 10:28 AM ET            

I'm glad you like my mother's country of birth, Finland, but I'm a bit surprised you think it's more beautiful than Sweden, since those two countries are so similar...

However, I suspect you meant what you wrote as an insult. I guess you don't know much about Finnish or Swedish, since you'd have picked some other country to compare Sweden to, otherwise. Hint: My tag happens be Finnish...

Furthermore, my father's Austrian, and I have an Austrian passport (I won't say nationality, since that's something else), so all of you attacking Sweden on account of one measly post from me can stop now. Don't attack Finland or Austria, either, since my father's part of a minority group of Croats who've lived in what is now Austria since the late 15th Century.

posted 11-17-98 01:03 PM ET            

Now, the next to last post (which I suppose you may be referring to), is a civilized one, as well, but in it, you seem to have misunderstood what I wrote. I guess I may not have been all that clear. You should have seen Imran as the target for all I wrote (i.e. I don't see USians per se as different from other humans).

posted 11-17-98 01:39 PM ET            

Imran: Sorry, but I think too many of us in this thread, including myself, took what I thought was the humor and made it sound serious. Again, I apologize

We are all adults, and I acted like a child, my apologies to all in this thread and in particular my fellow countrymen for making them as well as myself look very bad

I hope those that I may have offended will find the patience and forgiveness in there hearts and forgive me of my outbreaks??!

Yes, they were stupid outbreaks, and I will have to shorten this thread to be more humorous and less offensive and serious to others. I respect everyone's opinion and felt bad that I had said as much as I did

Brother Greg: I apologize for not allowing you to cool it all down in here. I am somewhat "inexperienced" in forums and hope you find forgiveness for my rediculous childish outbreaks. You are all friends to me because we all want the same thing: a free world with pleasures like playing a game of SMAC. I forgot our uniting theme, and I apologize to you, my friend.

Arnelos: I think you had a lot of valid points but it doesn't make up for my outbreak: I apoligize to you as well

I hope my actions will not jeopardize any of you from continuing to discuss issues with me.

If anyone is still upset at me, I will personally send them an apologizing email.

posted 11-20-98 05:30 AM ET            

Come on, now, sing along - "We are the world, we are the people..."

But seriously ( ), there's more in common between, say, Sweden and Canada, than you and the US. Of course, it's a good thing you are where you are, as a good example to the USians.

Imran: Think "per capita", and I think you'll see what Roland meant. I do suspect you already know this, but I can ignore this inkling of mine as well as you seem to be able to ignore the difference between GNP and the same per capita.

Then again, if you take into account how small a percentage of your population is sitting on that massive GNP, and ignore the huge remainder of the population, of course, the US of A would probably turn out to be the richest nation on Earth. Hmmm... Would it? How about some of the oil nations...?

No. You have to take the population into account. Also, it _is_ interesting to see how the wealth is distributed in the population. If it is distributed fairly evenly, you get a strong home market for a wide range of goods, whereas a strong concentration of riches on a small portion of the population leads to lower consumtion of more expensive goods (everyone has to eat, live somewhere, etc., and those things wouldn't be as affected as, say, the sales of computers, "whiteware" (translation of a Swedish term for washing mashines, freezers, and other appliances like that).

Even things like housing are affected, naturally. In Sweden there are relatively small differences between people's incomes, and until a few years ago, we had the highest housing standard in the world (largest living area per capita, etc.).

The last few years, however, the differences in income are increasing, and some people have been forced to either move into smaller flats/houses, or, in the cases of growing families, stay on in flats/houses which are getting cramped (relative to what's been the norm...).

posted 11-17-98 02:36 PM ET            

I think the bottom line is that we are all and should be proud of our heritage and where we are. We all need to endure the criticism and I understand this. It still doesn't alter the fact that someone like myself or Imran are proud of our great nation and at times feel ok to announce "Hey, I'm from the United States of America". I don't mean it in a negative or pompous way, but I think it is a positive thing for people to feel good about their country.
Every country has its trials and trivilations, but it also has its positives.
I think sometimes, Americans, at least from the United States, feel the world is to critical of what it does, so be it. I think sometimes it keeps this great nation in checks and balances to put up with the criticism, and that is good too. I hope that Americans like myself, and perhaps Imran, will not stop holding there head proud to be an American because of the outside criticism.
I certainly will not, I just don't need to be as vocal, and I respect others not wanting to hear me vocalize it.

posted 11-20-98 08:59 AM ET            

There's more in common between us than between you and the USians...

On the other hand, it's noble of you to live so close to the "Evil Empire" (No offense, guys, just kidding! ), and act as a good example. Hang in there!

Imran: I think you should consider the term "per capita". You get what 'per' is, since that's the same in Latin and English, but 'capita' is the plural of 'caput', 'head' (unless I shook sth. loose, the last time I fell on my 'caput', in case I'd be thankful for your (kind, please) corrections).

Now, of course I'm kidding - I know that you know this, Imran. On the other hand, you can't just ignore the population size, when dealing with numbers like these. They do count (feeble joke, I know...).

You probably know this too, of course, but since you do seem to ignore this knowledge, I feel I can ignore your probable knowledge, as well!

Of course, just adding the population into the calculation shows us more, but it doesn't really show us all there is to know about how people are doing in a given country. What about how the distribution of riches in a given country? (Yes, I know you imagine you're going to be one of the 500, Imran, but that's not what everyone can look forward to, so I feel this is interesting.)

The fact (doubtful) that anyone can get rich in a country, doesn't mean that the economic system used there is the best/most efficient.

Consider what happens when you have a fairly rich country with large differences in income. The poorer parts of the population still have to acquire food, habitation and the like, so let's discount that (though I'll look at it again soon), but they won't exactly be part of a strong home market for dishwashers, computers, and what-not, will they? (Sure, the rich part of the population will buy the stuff, but you only want so many dishwashers, right?)
Now contrast this with a similarly rich country with relatively small differences in income. The natural outcome is that there are more people who have enough money to buy the capital goods, i.e. you get a stronger home market, and a healthier economy!

posted 11-17-98 03:49 PM ET            

Also have you noticed that we seem to get flamed the most by people who are from nations that are now has-been empires? Think theirs a little envy there?

posted 11-17-98 03:49 PM ET            

I don't know, but I think only United States of America, Americans should be allowed for that type of input on a Bill of Rights, etc, constitution, since there is a Canadian Faction, a European Faction, etc,. Your thoughts Imran?

posted 11-17-98 07:59 PM ET            

Hothram, as far as I know, Australia has never been considered an empire. Part of the British perhaps, but then I'd be saying Britain was the best.

As for Britain, apart from having one of the best football leagues in the world (with a very underachieving national side), they have one of the most lousy cricket sides, who are about to get royally flogged by a bunch of convicts.

I mean, who can claim to be a successful empire if your cricket side gets flogged by the Aussies? Which'd probably rule America out too, as I don't think there's anyone there who plays cricket seriously. So, realistically, the best empires are Australia, the West Indies and South Africa. Heh, heh.

As for Patriotism, I personally think it is a good thing (I support the New England Patriots ), in moderation. If it gets to the stage where people start having a go at other countries, just because they think they're best, then patriotism is taken too far.

So, I don't blame anyone for saying "I love my country, and I think it is a good country". I do have a go at them when they say "You aren't from my country, therefore you suck".

And from experience, though I don't know why, Americans seem to be one of the most touchy nations on that score. Not all of them by any means, but given enough provocation just about any American will defend his country (which IMHO is a good thing). Maybe Jeff has a point about the world seeming to be critical of the US. Part of the tall poppy syndrome perhaps?

posted 11-21-98 08:23 PM ET            

WCW

posted 11-18-98 12:54 AM ET            

Es war viele Jahren zeitlich, dass habe ich meine vier Jahren von studieren gemacht. Meine Deutche ist ganz schlecht.

posted 11-23-98 10:14 AM ET            

Imran: Sorry I'm posting here again - I'll run over to the new thread immediately - I just wanted to check what happened...

BTW: Did you read my misplaced posts, Imran? It's fairly long, and in spite of my posting on 20 November, they ended up after 17 November, 02 PM...

posted 11-18-98 02:30 AM ET            

That's how your country started in the first place, people in Europe questioning and challenging the forces in Europe that were opressing them. (Granted, that is a rather simplified view.)

Brother Greg.

posted 11-30-98 04:42 AM ET            

And as long as I'm making enemies, what did Reagan do that was so great? I must be missing something. Maybe I would be taken more seriously on this comment if I didn't say it in the same breath with my earlier sarcasm.

posted 11-18-98 03:35 AM ET            

Yea Patriotism is a very good and worthy thing. And maybe Americans can be a little toucy about other nations making comments about us. But well... it just seems that when people from other nations do make comments about us its almost always bad and uninformed.
After a while being insulted almost constantly starts to make people a little touchy.

posted 11-30-98 07:37 AM ET            

"how did your ancestors treat the natives then, hmmm"

posted 11-18-98 06:43 AM ET            

I never said Britain was the best country in the world and I don't really recall anyone else saying it in the Brittish thread.

posted 11-18-98 07:01 AM ET            

Habe ich es richtig verstanden? Viele Jahre sind gegangen seit deine Deutschstudien, und die waren (nur) vierj�hrig? Da finde ich, da� du wahrscheinlich mehr Deutsch recht einfach lernen konntest. (Wenn ich eine Sprache lerne, ist es am schwersten am Beginn. Sobald ich die Sprache einigerma�en lesen kann, geht es viel schneller zu lernen.)

posted 11-18-98 08:32 AM ET            

I also find a language hardest to learn at the beginning. When you get the basics you are really only learning subtleties and vocabulary.

If you look at the kind of questions Roland asks they are often very hard for us to answer because they are really subtle distinctions that, in English, there is often no better reason for than "because it sounds right."

posted 11-18-98 10:22 AM ET            

I know, I know, you worked it out yourselves.
I was just kidding.

Anyway, we hit 6000 posts. Yippe! this should be 6001 or 6002.

posted 11-18-98 11:15 AM ET            

Arnelos:

"Es war viele Jahren zeitlich, dass habe ich meine vier Jahren von studieren gemacht. Meine Deutche ist ganz schlecht."

"Es ist viele Jahre her, dass ich Deutsch gelernt habe. Mein Deutsch ist ganz schlecht." - Just correcting - I'm glad when people point out the mistakes I make (well, "glad" may be exaggerated ), it's no problem to understand you, so your german is alright.

"Ist es nur meine Eindruck, oder ist Imrans Benehmen genau meine Bescheibung von der Problem in den Vereinigten Staaten?"

"Ist es nur mein Eindruck, oder entspricht Imrans Benehmen genau meiner Beschreibung von dem Problem in den Vereinigten Staaten ?"

The problem I see is that some people
a) feel attacked personally when someone else says "this and that is going wrong in the US."
b) use the counter-"argument" of "we are best at everything" or "only we know how to/ only we can/blahblahblah/yeckidy schmackidy..."
c) tell dissenting people to shut up cause "you are not american"

I did not take Imran's comments seriously enough to meet that description, but others seem to have done that.

If Hothram says "But well... it just seems that when people from other nations do make comments about us its almost always bad and uninformed", I think the same applies for people yelling a) to c).

When Imran says: "Maybe the US isn't the best in everthing, but we sure are better than any nation on Earth!!", I agree with part I, but I doubt part II. Not so much cause I think nation xyz is the best, but just that you can't come up with a standard to measure that. If Imran wants to identify the essential categories to make that decision, I'm ready to discuss the single topics.

What should be discussed is how diffreent nation approach a certain problem, and which results they achieve. But you can't talk about such a "best practice"-model if people say "model X is best cause it is applied in nation Y".

posted 11-18-98 01:27 PM ET            

"Ich hoffe das nicht noch ein flamewar geben werd."
=>
"Ich hoffe, da� das nicht noch einen flamewar geben wird"

Tap, I think we have both been very moderate in our posts. We can get used to that, I hope...

"Mais que voulez vous, on s'habitue a tout"

posted 11-18-98 10:32 PM ET            

I think the faction abilities would have to be a mesh 40% militiant 40% energy happy, 10% 'save de planet' and um uh 10%, uh help me out here, what ratio should the 10th faction have and still be semi-realistic (actualy in order to do it a little more realistic, well we should have less income, yet the ability to take out a loan on energy or something)

posted 11-19-98 05:53 AM ET            

1. Freeest nation - I don't buy that. Economic freedom, maybe. But with 1,5 million people in prison ?

2. Inventions: eg the telephone was invented at about the same time in Germany; the automobile was an european invention (though mass production was mostly an american idea)

3. The richest nation ? No. It's about nr 10 in the world.

4. Vietnam: the US intervention started under Kennedy (after 1961). France had quit in 1954. But it is true that the US inherited a problem that the french had created (or at least worsened).

5. The marshall plan: true, but one shouldn't forget that it benefitted the US more than it cost them - a really good investment, one could say.

6. Victory in the cold war. It was a collabaration of the entire west. While the US spent up to 300 billion $ ( about 200 billion before Reagan) on defense per year, the European allies spent up to 200 billion. In addition, the europeans spent about 3-4 times as much in foreign aid, doing a lot to keep the west's position in the third world. Most european nations had the draft (which is annoying and costly, but that costs are not in a military budget) and provided for the numbers in men and tanks etc to balance the red army. And finally, Europe (mainly western germany) was ready to be the battlefield, though some leftie lunatics wanted unilateral disarmament and neutralisation.
So I'd say the West won the cold war, with the US and Western Europe taking about the same share of the burden.

posted 11-19-98 06:26 AM ET            

We didn't say that .. we never will .. Canadians believe in peaceful co-existance with the rest of the world .. the fact that the untied nations voted Canada best country in the world is really irrelevant !!!

In the Canadian 8th Faction, we welcome anyone who wants to participate in what we think is an ideal society !!! Being Canadian faction member doesn't mean you have to have been born north of the 45th paralel, it's a way of thinking .. it's placing humanity ahead of any one person! It's why we think medicare and gun control is important! It's why we think racism is wrong !!! It's why we'll never interfere in another countries affairs unless they're fundamentally evil!

Brother Greg, you brought up some good points!

MouthShaft >>>"When was the last time the Canadians kicked anyone's @$$"
To that I respond >>> We believe kicking people's @$$e$ is fundamentally wrong if it can be avoided .. but if the evil is beyond reasonning, we can open a serious can of whoop-@$$ !!!
Ask any European old enough to remember World War Two .. ask them what Canadians sacrificed for the freedom of Europe because it they were having evil imposed upon them ??? Canadians entered world War 2 because we saw wrong-doing .. we weren't drawn into it because we were attacked first, or because it threatened our economy !!! We entered it because we saw injustice .. that was good enough for us !!!

Anyways, on the other hand, the US has done alot of good for the world, and most of their people are good people YYYH & Arnelos for example ... unfortunately, those people are never mentioned .. fact is, every nation in the world has some @$$holes, (except Canada that is !!! ) but the US always seems to get bashed for it because of what a few people say !!!

I like most Americans, I've come to really respect a few of you here, and I'd like to continue our good relationships on Chiron .. I'd have to say I'd be very defence because of a few of you like Imran who just like to shoot everyone down all the time, but I have faith theat the good apples like YYYH will prevail !!!

posted 11-20-98 06:04 AM ET            

Imran, I never doubted you liked us...

Esp., when you say: "I shoot people down because they don't know what they're talking about." LOL!!!
I'm ready to back up the things I say with facts; I think I know what I'm talking about...

"Roland the US is #1 in GNP, which makes it the richest nation on Earth"

That's an unusual definition, by which China would be a lot richer than eg Austria. If I twist that a little and say "the biggest economy", the US is second - EU is first, and I think it is already justified to refer to it as one economy...

posted 11-20-98 03:17 PM ET            

Oh yeah, for the American Faction, I shall ressurect "the Duke"(John Wayne) to help us. Also is the terms of real generals, we got Patton (the one guy who scared Hitler), Eisenhower, Grant, Sherman, and McArthur (of course we had to take McArthur's arrogence away, bad for morale). Carry on. Imran out.

posted 11-21-98 08:25 PM ET            

WCW

posted 11-23-98 10:22 AM ET            

Strange. Wonder where this post will end up?

Imran: Sorry I'm posting here again - I'll run over to the new thread immediately - I just wanted to check what
happened...

BTW: Did you read my misplaced posts, Imran? It's fairly long, and in spite of my posting on 20 November, they
ended up after 17 November, 02 PM...