posted 11-10-98 07:10 AM ET        

Here are my thoughts:

Captain Garland: ENFP "Champion/Advocate"
Pravin Lal: ENFP "Champion/Advocate"
Mariam Godwinson: ENFP "Champion/Advocate"
Prokhor Saratov: ENTP "Inventor"
Sheng-yi Yang: ENTJ "Fieldmarshal"
Corazon Santiago: ESTJ "Supervisor"
Nwabudike Morgan: ESTJ "Supervisor"
Deirdre Skye: ENFJ "Teacher"

posted 11-11-98 07:20 PM ET            

Interesting idea. I have composed my own list. I tried to look at each of the individual factors (ie. I vs E) for each leader. I then verified them against personality descriptions, including the Kiersey Temperament listed below. I was surprised to rate each one differently, with no two the same.

Captain Garland: ESFJ Guardian/Provider
Pravin Lal: ISTJ Guardian/Inspector
Miriam Godwinson: ENFJ Idealist/Teacher
Proktor Saratov: ISTP Artisan/Operator
Sheng-yi Yang: INTJ Rational/Mastermind
Corazon Santiago: ENTJ Rational/Fieldmarshall
Nwabudike Morgan: ENTP Rational/Inventor
Deirdre Skye: ENFJ Idealist/Healer

And my own personality type is ENFP (verified with several different tests over time, including today).

Arnelos, I notice your list includes all extroverted types. Any reason for that? I see some, like Skye, to be definitely more inward-looking.

I would be interested to see what others think (especially those familiar with Meyers-Briggs).

posted 11-11-98 08:58 PM ET            

The Inspector Guardians are not only concrete in speech and cooperative in getting things done, they are also directive and attentive in their social interactions. Though not always open about directing others, still they are not the least bit reluctant in this regard.

About ten percent of the general population, Inspectors are characterized by decisiveness in practical affairs, are the guardians of time-honored institutions, and, if only one adjective could be selected, "dependable" would best describe this type. Whether at home or at work, iStJs are extraordinarily reliable and dependable, particularly when it comes to inspecting the people and things in their field of vision. Inspectors can be counted on to scrutinize the products and accounts of the institutions they serve-the company's books, the farmer's crops, the manufacturer's goods-but also to examine the attitudes and actions of those around them. Inspectors are earnest and thorough in their inspecting; all must go under their magnifying glass, so that no deviation from the official standard is left undetected. It is their duty to spot and to report any and all discrepancies, though they prefer to work behind the scenes and not confront the deviators. Indeed, iStJs are rather quiet and serious types, making their inspections without flourish or fanfare, and, therefore, the dedication they bring to their work can go unnoticed and unappreciated.

Inspectors have a distaste for and distrust of fanciness in speech, dress, or place. Their words tend to be simple and "down home," not showy or high-flown; their clothes are often practical and conservative rather than of the latest style or extravagant; and their home and work environments are usually neat, orderly, and functional, rather than up-to-date or luxurious. In their choice of personal property (cars, furnishings, jewelry, and so on) price and durability are of primary concern, comfort or appearance given small consideration. "Classics," antiques, and heirlooms are especially prized, having achieved a certain time-honored status -- iStJs prefer the old-fashioned to the newfangled every time. Even on vacation, "no nonsense" seems the term for this type, who tend not to be attracted by exotic foods, beverages, or locales.

posted 11-11-98 10:42 PM ET            

It's not that introverts don't ascend to leadership (leadership is in fact decided by other factors), but that introverts seem less likely to express their views and establish leadership.

posted 12-08-98 12:07 PM ET            

I'm a Rational Mastermind!!! (INTJ, that is)
According to the Keirsey site, there aren't that many of us (ca. 1%).

Have you read the analyses on the site http://www.typelogic.com/? The INTJ follows:

Introverted iNtuitive Thinking Judging
by Marina Margaret Heiss

Profile: INTJ

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To outsiders, INTJs may appear to project an aura of "definiteness", of self-confidence. This self-confidence, sometimes mistaken for simple arrogance by the less decisive, is actually of a very specific rather than a general nature; its source lies in the specialized knowledge systems that most INTJs start building at an early age. When it comes to their own areas of expertise -- and INTJs can have several -- they will be able to tell you almost immediately whether or not they can help you, and if so, how. INTJs know what they know, and perhaps still more importantly, they know what they don't know.
INTJs are perfectionists, with a seemingly endless capacity for improving upon anything that takes their interest. What prevents them from becoming chronically bogged down in this pursuit of perfection is the pragmatism so characteristic of the type: INTJs apply (often ruthlessly) the criterion "Does it work?" to everything from their own research efforts to the prevailing social norms. This in turn produces an unusual independence of mind, freeing the INTJ from the constraints of authority, convention, or sentiment for its own sake.

INTJs are known as the "Systems Builders" of the types, perhaps in part because they possess the unusual trait combination of imagination and reliability. Whatever system an INTJ happens to be working on is for them the equivalent of a moral cause to an INFJ; both perfectionism and disregard for authority may come into play, as INTJs can be unsparing of both themselves and the others on the project. Anyone considered to be "slacking," including superiors, will lose their respect -- and will generally be made aware of this; INTJs have also been known to take it upon themselves to implement critical decisions without consulting their supervisors or co-workers. On the other hand, they do tend to be scrupulous and even-handed about recognizing the individual contributions that have gone into a project, and have a gift for seizing opportunities which others might not even notice.

In the broadest terms, what INTJs "do" tends to be what they "know". Typical INTJ career choices are in the sciences and engineering, but they can be found wherever a combination of intellect and incisiveness are required (e.g., law, some areas of academia). INTJs can rise to management positions when they are willing to invest time in marketing their abilities as well as enhancing them, and (whether for the sake of ambition or the desire for privacy) many also find it useful to learn to simulate some degree of surface conformism in order to mask their inherent unconventionality.

Personal relationships, particularly romantic ones, can be the INTJ's Achilles heel. While they are capable of caring deeply for others (usually a select few), and are willing to spend a great deal of time and effort on a relationship, the knowledge and self-confidence that make them so successful in other areas can suddenly abandon or mislead them in interpersonal situations.

This happens in part because many INTJs do not readily grasp the social rituals; for instance, they tend to have little patience and less understanding of such things as small talk and flirtation (which most types consider half the fun of a relationship). To complicate matters, INTJs are usually extremely private people, and can often be naturally impassive as well, which makes them easy to misread and misunderstand. Perhaps the most fundamental problem, however, is that INTJs really want people to make sense. :-) This sometimes results in a peculiar naivete', paralleling that of many Fs -- only instead of expecting inexhaustible affection and empathy from a romantic relationship, the INTJ will expect inexhaustible reasonability and directness.

posted 12-09-98 06:06 AM ET            

The argument that most of the faction leaders are type "E", since they talk a lot with one another is not valid. If you look at the definition, what I types wish to avoid is interaction with _groups_ of people, making speeches, being in charge at public functions, etc. Nothing like that has happened so far in the story (except possibly what Santiago's been up to, and then again, you might say that she's in a military sort of organisation, where you don't need to socialize that much...).

I'd say you might argue that type E people more often demonstrate advanced social skills, and based on that claim, I wouldn't rate anyone of the leaders as belonging to type E!!!

posted 11-12-98 02:33 AM ET            

Extraverts are "charged" by interaction with large groups of other people. Stuff like public speach and coalition building and leading "charge" them. Expressing their opinion tends to be something they enjoy doing. Being alone or silent for extended periods of time tends to "tire them out."

Introverts are the opposite. They tend to be "charged" by solatary or quiet pursuits. They find comfort in solitude and quiet. They tend to find interaction with lots of people mentally tiring. That doesn't mean they avoid it, just that they usually need a good deal of solitary time to ofset it and they tend not to be adrenaline charged like extraverts in public settings. They don't seem to have the same need to always express their opinions, participate in large public activities, and other things extraverts enjoy. Many introverts (although not all) find things like public speaking highly uncomfortable. Many tend to avoid and be very nervous in situations where they have to "present" something in front of a large group of others.

Because of these differences, it just happens to be that most leaders are extroverts. Obviously, leaders can in many respects be more decided by who is better at what they do, but many people who are very good at what they do don't become public leaders in their field.

posted 11-12-98 02:57 AM ET            

N and S:

N's are "theory people". They tend to look at the world in terms of abstract ideologies, concepts, and principals. Scientists, philosophers, theologans, and others of this nature are almost exclusively N's. They think more about possibilities than the "here-and-now." They think about that which might be, that which they could build or conceive. Most of the leaders in SMAC are deffinately N types (I would think), given how much they think in terms of possibilities, theories and the "possibilities" on planet. N's would have to include Pravin Lal, Prokhor Saratov, Deirde Skye, and Mariam Godwinson.

S's are "down-to-earth" sort of people. They think in concrete terms of the "here-and-now" and find theorists many times mostly bothersome and flighty. They look at the present world and think concretely about what has to be here and now rather than concerning themselves with abstract possiblities and the future. A perfect example of an S would be Corazon Santiago, who sees the world in very concrete terms (although she's a particularly STRONG example of an S).

posted 11-12-98 03:07 AM ET            

F's are not people entirely dominated by their emotions, although that might be an extreme case of an F. T's can also be dominated by their momentary whims.

The principal difference between F's and T's is the degree to which they develop emotional attachments to people or groups and their level of devotion in a sense. F's, like Pravin Lal, are both very emotionally attached and very devoted to friends and loved ones. They also are very devoted to the "causes" they believe in. NF's tend to be the majority of revolutionaries and are, in fact, described with the term "idealists." F's tend to look for harmony and involvement in relationships.

T's, on the other hand, tend to avoid personal devotions that are too strong and they tend to distrust their own convictions. They tend to be very "tough-minded" individuals who like to think hard about something before making any type of commitment to it. Prokhor Saratov is a perfect example of a T personality.

posted 11-12-98 03:14 AM ET            

J's, or "judgemental" people, tend to like schedule and structure. They tend to write things down and maintain schedules in their daily lives. J's tend to be very methodical about how they carry out their work, working from beginning to end of a project to its conclusion.

posted 11-12-98 03:30 AM ET            

Pravin Lal (ENFP):

E over I: Pravin Lal is a leader, he probably also is comfortable with public speaking and high levels of interaction with other people, absolute essentials if you are to be a good diplomat. To handle the constant need for coalition building, expressing your opinion, and high levels of public interaction for being a democratic leader and an active diplomat, I would think Pravin Lal would have to be an E. The demands for an E personality are so great.

N over S: This one's easy. Pravin Lal is an idealist. He thinks in terms of the future and past of humanity and abstract concepts and intuitions about his humanitarianism and how he must help save humanity. He sees human history of the long term and tries to deduce the abstract principles at work. He works for human cooperation, an Idealist (NF) trait.

F over T: Pravin Lal, more than any other character/leader in SMAC, is highly devoted to the mission and to his friends and loved ones. His psych profile in the factions area his highly representative of his F values. F's need not be dominated by their emotions though, and thus he is capable of being a skeptic as well.

posted 11-12-98 03:33 AM ET            

This, I would think, would be obvious.

posted 11-12-98 03:42 AM ET            

Ok, this one should be pretty obvious as well.

First of all, almost all scientists are NT's, that's just a given. Scientists think in terms of abstract principles that shape the laws of nature and guide everything rather than the day to day stuff (strong N). Then, scientists like Prokhor Saratov are very tough-minded critics who view emotional attachment quite skeptically and avoid it (strong T). If anything, scientists tend to be very STRONG N's because of the degree to which most ignore the day to day ways of life and concentrate wholly upon the world of ideas and scientific thought ("absent minded professor" anyone?)

Now, to go beyond the obvious NT for his scientific type, we go to the E-I and J-P axes:

Prokhor, specifically, seems to be an E (constantly badgering Marian about the truth of science and expressing his opinion, assuming authority, etc.). I would in fact place Prokhor as a rather strong E, given his tendency to be the most vocal about his opinion of anyone onboard (the I's on board must be asking when he's just going to shut up).

Concerning J versus P, it is much less clear. Once again, I think the "inventor" personality (ENTP) seems to fit Prokhor Saratov much better than the "Fieldmarshal" personality (ENTJ) given on the various meyers-briggs and keirsey websites.

posted 11-12-98 03:50 AM ET            

Sheng-yi is CERTAINLY an N, I would think almost without question. He's not only very theoretically and ideologically persuaded, he is very much an intuitive and inward-thinking person. His psych talents would be highly suggestive of an N personality (the ESP theory is related to those people believing that some N's have this ability).

Concerning T vs F, I would think Sheng-yi Yang is a T, a tough-minded and rational thinker that doesn't build too many personal emotional bonds to things.

Concerning J vs P, I would think Sheng-yi is a very methodical and organized person, being highly J.

posted 11-12-98 03:55 AM ET            

Corazon Santiago is the prototypical S, I dont' know where you'd get N from. She is the most concretely thinking and "down-to-earth"/"here-and-now" person on the crew.

I would think she is an E over I because of how vocal and interactive she is. Then again, CEO Landon agrees with me on this axis, so I won't explain any further.

On J vs P, I would think almost certainly J, as she seems to be downright anal about scheduling and precision. She is a VERY shedule-oriented person.

posted 11-12-98 03:57 AM ET            

Now it seems that Morgan is more N than I had thought earlier (I had formulated ESTJ before the chess episode).

posted 11-12-98 04:00 AM ET            

She's definately an NF (Idealist). I would think, given how vocal she is about her opinion with other crewmembers (or at least that's what's hinted to by other crew members), she seems an E.

posted 11-12-98 04:04 AM ET            

Garland is probably an NF (Idealist), which the U.N. placed at the head of command. He is devoted and deeply attached to his crew and his mission (will he ever stop stroking that U.N. symbol?).

Garland is a vocal leader who I would think is definately an E type.

posted 11-12-98 04:35 AM ET            

I would also put Yang as more I than E (but, as you said, we don't have a lot of data to go on). When he communicates with people, I get the impression that he thinks of them more as subjects in a psych experiments than as equals who he is engaging in a dialogue with. I get the impression from Yang that he plans to get his faction to follow him by generating loyalty to the faction rather than loyalty to himself. I don't think being an extrovert would necessarily be useful to the leader of the Hive.

My analysis: Yang - INTJ, Morgan - ENTP.

posted 11-12-98 07:53 AM ET            

I'm not so sure that all leaders will be "E".
I'd think Yang may be I, but most of all Saratov. From his little conversation with Miriam I'd think that expressing his views and addessing other people are not necassarily his strenghts, even if he's frequently voicing his opinion - but only on his business. Then again, I may misinterpret the meanings of "I" and "E".
What about Skye ? I'd say we know too little.
Garland may be "I" as well, but it is hard to substantiate that. Gotta think about it...

PS: From the test, I got:

E/I = 47/53
S/N = 61/39
T/F = 75/25
J/P = 47/53

So, ISTP (sounds weird: "You are an ISTP"), with I and P on a very narrow margin. And a clear T, well, no surprise. S over N is a bit of a surprise. All in all, I think this scheme is pretty accurate.

posted 11-12-98 06:10 PM ET            

Lal: He was the hardest for me to rate and I see that we disagreed on all four. I still think he is an I and J, but changed my mind and agree with you on the F. So, I narrowed it to INFJ or ISFJ. I'll keep thinking on this one.

Godwinson is more likely a J than P. She seems single-minded, orderly, and quite on top of things. Also, despite the F (feeling), she is quite judgemental about the way people should be. Anyway, I have to stay with ENFJ.

Saratov is more the practical engineering type than the mad inventor (look at his psych profile). He might be more extroverted as you say, but I think I am right about the S.

Yang is the strongest 'I' among the faction leaders. He is very self-aware and introspective. His psych profile even calls him as antisocial, so I think INTJ works quite well for him. He really fits the 'mastermind' profile.

Santiago: I agree with you here. S makes more sense, so it should be ESTJ.

Trust me on CEO Morgan. He is ENTP. See Octopus' support of the P. I agree that he is the classic entrepreneur and this is the profile that fits him best.

Skye: We agree on ENFJ. You question NT vs NF, but I think she is idealist over theorist, thus NF. Anyone else?

I don't see Garland as idealistic as you seem to. He is very practical, seeking to preserve the team and meet their individual needs. He is thinking ahead some, but mostly works in the here and now. Read the profiles for ESFJ and see if you don't agree with me on this.

posted 11-12-98 08:12 PM ET            

CEO Landon:
"Saratov is more the practical engineering type than the mad inventor (look at his psych profile). He might be more extroverted as you say, but I think I am right about the S."

I definately think Saratov is an N. As I said, you have to first suspect NT for just about any scientist (in the case of Saratov, he's a scientist by the way, not just an engineer). N is very strong selection for scientists. N's only occur in about 15% of the population, which makes sense when you consider that they're aren't very many people who do science and theory, even among people who are quite bright.

On Yang:

CEO Landon:
"Yang is the strongest 'I' among the faction leaders. He is very self-aware and introspective"

Qualities such as "self-aware" and "introspective" are qualities of N, not necessarily I. The difference between E's and I's is basicly how you recharge your mental strenght (public vs solitude). Just because Yang is introspective does not mean he is I, it DOES mean that he is N. The very definition of N, I(b)tuitive or I(n)trospective (as opposed to (s)ensing), is that it reflects that the person with an N personality is three things:
1. More introspective than most people
2. Less concrete than most people
3. More theoretical and Conceptual than most people

Remember, N's only make up about 15% of the population. However, A FULL HALF OF N's ARE ALSO E's, so one can be BOTH E (extraverted) and N (introspective and theoretical). Personally, I happen to be E and N, so I stand as an example (my personality is right on the line between ENFP and ENTP, perhaps more ENFP).

On Pravin Lal:

I would think Pravin Lal is DEFINATELY an N.
his pysch profile:

"Seeks to de-escalate conflict and create harmonious environments. Dedication to ideals of U.N. mission unquestioned, loyalty superb. Able to perform well under extreme pressure; score .87 on Atherholt Trauma Function Test (recovery score moderate). Deep connection to loved ones possibly exploitable by adversary."

"Seeks to de-escalate conflicts and create harmonious environments" from his psych profile sounds like it's straight out of "highly skilled in DIPLOMATIC INTEGRATION" for the discription of NF Idealists on the Keirsey website.

His quote (Episode 2):

"I pray the integrity of the ship's
datacore remains true. It is the
last hope of humankind...all of our
knowledge digitized for transit to
the new world. If Earth has not
survived these last 40 years, then
our future lies in the heart of a
damaged ship."

NF's tend to be extreemely devoted and attached to things. NF's also tend to be "humanities" type people. Pravin Lal, more than any other crew member, seems to be the NF type.

Biography quote:

"Born 2006, Rajkot India. Degree in Philosophy and Medicine, Oxford University. Trained in Thoracic Surgery. Achieved international acclaim for selfless devotion to victims of radiation poisoning following the Twelve Minute War and the India Border Conflict. Served as member of research team investigating genes that encode proteins aiding with DNA repair, University of Basel, Switzerland. Later appointed Assistant Director, World Health Organization. Top candidate for Chief of Surgery, U.N. Alpha Centauri Mission."

Ok, he has his degree in philosophy, that should send every NF warning bell of imediately. Then, "Achieved international acclaim for selfless devotion to victims of radiation poisoning" quite nicely reflects the ENFP description of "Champions are inclined to go everywhere and look into everything that has to do with the advance
of good and the retreat of evil in the world." It also reflects the ENFP description of "For Champions, nothing occurs which does not have some deep ethical significance." Pravin Lal is the most ethics-related member of the crew, also having a degree in Philosophy, reflecting this strong interest of his.

"Served as member of research team investigating genes that encode proteins aiding with DNA repair, University of Basel, Switzerland." The fact that he's involved in high-level medical research AND is interested heavily in philosophy and ethics, gives STRONG suggestion to an N personality. This guy thinks in abstract.

I think Pravin Lal is ENFP or ENFJ, one or the other. I may be personally inclined to ENFP (because I am an ENFP and find Pravin Lal has the same interests and drives that I do) for personal reasons as well, but I think the facts support it.

Being a philosopher (studying ethics of all things) makes him seem to be much more of a wholistic and non-scheduled person. hell, do you remember:

"The ship... he had almost forgotten the danger." (Episode 2). He seems a bit absent-minded at times, a strong P trait. A J would have come out of the cryo-cell and imediately set to work (after all, he's got to worry about life, limb, and there's work that's got to be done). The fact that he stood around looking at Pria and "almost forgot the danger" suggests he may be a P rather than a J.

Overall, I quite strongly think Pravin Lal, given his behavior and the descriptions of him (not to mention his bio) reflects an ENFP type (Champion).

posted 12-08-98 12:21 PM ET            

Responding to Arnelos from a while ago:
"he's a scientist by the way, not just an engineer"

As an engineer, I take offense . Science and engineering are very different disciplines, almost orthogonal in some respects.