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DJ RRebel posted 11-03-98 08:30 AM ET
Hmmmn ... ok .. so all I see on here is people bickering about the release dates !!!
Here is what we know so far !!!
The Demo will be released when the countdown reaches ZERO .. (on or around 1998Nov15)
Firaxis has also stated that the full release will be available 3 to 6 weeks afterwards I think it was ... which would make it in the X-Mas time frame .. but it seems to me I heard there was a delay to iron out some last bugs and that it would be released on 1999Jan20 ... I'm guessing that date is +/- !!!
But regardless, we'll all have the demo for the time being so we'll all be happy happy in 2 weeks !!!
If any of you have any more concrete details please place them here ... I heard from another source that it will only be ready for 1999Q2 !!!
Anyways, for those of you who want more info look at Chapter 22 of the story I think it is (might have been chap 21) ... they explain it all there ... although an update from time to time would be a nice thing *Hint Hint*
Does anyone have an update on the Civ2 multi ??? Microprose is really ticking me off with their unexplained delays !!!

Mortis posted 11-04-98 03:06 AM ET
Most games that take absolutely ages to develope are usualy the best ones. Although Firaxis have prcticaly tortured us with the story and these forums, where crawling the walls waiting for the demo. I think that I wouln't mind a 1-2quater 1999 relise date as long as the demo is on 15/10. We all need that taste of the gameplay to keep us interested.
DJ RRebel posted 11-04-98 10:48 AM ET
I couldn't agree with you more ... I just want to start playing something ... I wonder if the demo will support some form of multi !!!
Has anyone heard anything from Firaxis or EA ???
I'm sure I remember someone saying 1999Jan20 in the old forum ...
Anyways, who cares, as long as the demo has substance to it, I could wait a couple more months !!!
DJ RRebel posted 11-06-98 10:58 PM ET
I hate to say this, but I told you so !!!
Victor Galis posted 11-06-98 11:04 PM ET
Microprose was bought out and came under the possesion of a large corporation, almost all hope is lost. Only Firaxis remains and their game is constantly delayed.

Former Microprose shareholder who lost a lot of money.
DJ RRebel posted 11-07-98 04:34 AM ET
Microprose was bought by Hasbro I think !!!
They also bought one of the other companies involved in the Civilization name battles .. I think it was Avalon Hill ... I don't think it was Activision !!!
DJ RRebel posted 11-25-98 12:54 AM ET
LOL .. it's looking more and more like my guess is the most acurate to date !!!
Anyone actually hear of an actual day in January yet though ???
And does anyone have any news on those other Civ releases ???
WAS posted 11-25-98 01:23 AM ET
DJ I also read someplace that the release date was 1/20/99, but I forget where .
As for the "Boredom Blues" do what I did. Buy a new game. I just bought Railroad Tycoon II, I'm getting hooked on those little trains!
Aga1 posted 11-25-98 03:31 PM ET
WAS try the multiplayer at heat then you will be addicted to RRT2
Gord McLeod posted 11-25-98 08:56 PM ET
I'm fairly certain one of the Firaxis people said the game release date is January 20th... but confirmation would be terrific. (Of course the usual caveat applies - all release dates, confirmed or otherwise, are approximate till you see it on the store shelf.)
Shining1 posted 11-25-98 10:01 PM ET
*Sigh*. If they confirm the date, and then think of something really good that just HAS to be included, they will only disappoint you with a delay. If not, the game will seem to be taking forever to finish and people will lose interest.
The only solution is to transcend to NIM, and play some of the other good games that are out at the moment (Half-life, Fallout2).
I hate firm release dates for the same reason I hated set bed-times when I was a kid - they don't take reality into account. The main problem with any iterative process is that it takes much longer than the set procedure, and you usually don't know when you will find the answer (you only have a vague idea of the amount of work involved). Firaxis, according to Brian Reynolds gamespot diaries, uses the 'Iterative design' philosophy. Build it, play it, rebuild it, play it, etc. That means any firm release date is just a stab in the dark.
Obviously Firaxis are fairly confident they can get the final product shipped by 20Jan99.
But I wouldn't be too hopeful about that date. After all, the best games are those that just sit in the stores for ages, consistantly selling units, like CivII and WarcraftII (which is still selling reasonably well in N.Z). I think this is what firaxis is hoping for, rather than a huge media blitz and heavy sales in the first weeks followed by an almost complete tailoff.
DAT posted 11-25-98 11:36 PM ET
I was the one (or at least one of the ones) who mentioned a second quarter release date. The source was GameWeek magazine, which routinely summarizes upcoming (and updated?) release dates for retailers.
Regarding the actual release date: it should be possible to NAIL the release date approximately 4-6 weeks prior to actual release--that's when everything typically has to be in production in order to support product build and ship. Most companies won't begin that cycle until they are positive that they are "finished"--since a change of mind at that point means tossing some or all of the production materials (at least the CD's, often the manuals, and so forth).
So, anybody live relatively close to Firaxis or their publisher? One of those two will be coordinating the production process and they will probably use vendors who are fairly close by (in order to facilitate quality control checks).
Octopus posted 11-26-98 01:23 AM ET
"The main problem with any iterative process is that it takes much longer than the set procedure, and you usually don't know when you will find the answer"
I don't want to put Firaxis down, but they should have enough experience by now to know how long a game design is going to take. How long has Sid Meier been in this business? How many games that are more or less like SMAC has Brian Reynolds worked on? If the problem that software companies had was "release dates are hard to predict" then games would be finished AHEAD of schedule 50% of the time. Games are ALMOST ALWAYS late.
Gord McLeod posted 11-26-98 01:52 AM ET
The problem is there is no formula in software design that can tell you when it will be finished. Something can ALWAYS go wrong, and there is NO way to pin it down to the point where you can predict with any accuracy when the product will be shipping. It's the same with every company, not just Firaxis...
JingoPenguin posted 11-26-98 03:34 PM ET
I would have thought that if a game is ever completed before schedule then the developers would continue tweaking and improving it which inevitably leads to more bugs. That would be why games are never released early.
DJ RRebel posted 12-01-98 01:17 PM ET
LOL .. good point !!!
Hey, If I'm right about 1999Jan20, then 50 days until the full deal !!!
And 20 days now until the demo !!!
I think the next 2 weeks will be the moments of truth, if they delay the game again, they'll have no real reason to bring it out before spring !!!
But on the other hand, if the demo comes out on time, then there's good chance they'll rush it for 1999Jan before gamers spend all their x-mas cash !!!
Lee Johnson posted 12-01-98 04:43 PM ET
If a new game is not on shelves by mid-December, the Christmas cash is, by and large, already spent; in other words, the publisher has already missed the boat. Therefore, since we already know that the game won't be in stores this month, there is little need to rush it to completion--even if the demo appears on time.
That said, I would certainly be happy to see the game finished in January. :-)
MikeH II posted 12-01-98 04:49 PM ET
I don't think FIRAXIS will slow down the game just because they've missed the Christmas market.
Lee Johnson posted 12-01-98 05:00 PM ET
I'm not suggesting that they're going to slow down: But there is no need for undue haste. I have to think that if they need more time at this stage, they won't be hesitant about slipping the date as much as they to do a proper job on the game.
Admittedly, as a major 'A' title, SMAC is going to do well no matter what time of the year is released, but there is always a boost that comes from making the holiday shopping season--which EA/Firaxis obviously wrote off weeks ago. This is not a complaint, just an observation.
Lee Johnson posted 12-01-98 05:02 PM ET
"...as much as they need to do a proper job." Brain's getting ahead of my fingers again...
CClark posted 12-01-98 05:03 PM ET
Lee, I think what DJ meant was that a lot of people just get money as a Xmas gift (from grandmothers or great aunts who don't have a clue what to give) and so that money is often available in the first couple weeks of January. Gift Certificates fall into the same category.
If Firaxis gets the demo out for Christmas, then people may be inclined to hang onto their gift money to buy the game later in January.
Lee Johnson posted 12-01-98 10:18 PM ET
Ah! <slaps forehead> Of course! I was thinking of it from the other end. My apologies for being slow today.
TSJack posted 12-02-98 01:51 AM ET
News on the dates:
I got to my store today (after my firt Thanksgiving weekend off in 5 years)and browsed through the release dates for the new games. I am sorry to say that SMAC now has a date in my system for 2/11/99. I havn't seen this date anywhere else, but my corporate office generally wont bother to change a date without word form the publisher.
Civ 2 gold may be out this Friday, but after watching that date move back every two weeks since March, I really don't care anymore. Civ: Test of Time has been pushed back to march (thats Microprose's Civ2 sequel) and Civ: Call to Power is still holding at 2/22/99.
Hope that helps
Drakenred posted 12-02-98 02:49 AM ET
Is it my imagination is is CivII:TOT litle more than Vaporware? I have been able to find almost nothing on it yetbeyond its pressrelese and a few fuzed out screenshots.
DJ RRebel posted 12-02-98 03:23 AM ET
Thanks for that info !!!
As for Civ2Gold, I'll believe it when I see it, in fact, I don't think I'll even bother with it !!!
Microprose were really bad in trying to decieve us .. I made a few phone calls to the number on the web site, after they were accepting orders for 3 months (or more), they told me that the game actually might not be released at all because of the mergers !!!
bio_spacer posted 12-07-98 03:01 PM ET
hello again fellow SMACians!
if anyone would care to look at the website they would discover that the demo should be released on dec. 20th. NOT on nov.20th.
but hey, whats a month matter? lol
personally i cant wait till the game comes out!! and the actuall game should come out 4-6 weeks after that, so it SHOULD come out in late jan or early feb. (the later the date the better the game will be)
i would have liked to see a slightly different format for the cities though, but oh well i guess i cant change that. DRAT!!
cya'll later thats all i gotta say about this topic
DJ RRebel posted 12-07-98 03:11 PM ET
Actually, the release date has been pushed back several times now, the previous release for the demo was for 1998Nov15 !!!
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey posted 12-07-98 09:29 PM ET
bio_spacer,
What do you think is wrong with the city format?? I think it's good actually, better than anything else really, IMAO.
It reminds me of this ad I saw in a gaming mag saying the release date would be 8/98. I cracked up when I read that again!! I personally can't wait for this game. In fact, my New Years resolution is to destroy the HH 10 times before the month after I got SMAC is out.
Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general,
YYYH
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Author	Topic: 1999Jan20 release
DJ RRebel	posted 11-03-98 08:30 AM ET Hmmmn ... ok .. so all I see on here is people bickering about the release dates !!! Here is what we know so far !!! The Demo will be released when the countdown reaches ZERO .. (on or around 1998Nov15) Firaxis has also stated that the full release will be available 3 to 6 weeks afterwards I think it was ... which would make it in the X-Mas time frame .. but it seems to me I heard there was a delay to iron out some last bugs and that it would be released on 1999Jan20 ... I'm guessing that date is +/- !!! But regardless, we'll all have the demo for the time being so we'll all be happy happy in 2 weeks !!! If any of you have any more concrete details please place them here ... I heard from another source that it will only be ready for 1999Q2 !!! Anyways, for those of you who want more info look at Chapter 22 of the story I think it is (might have been chap 21) ... they explain it all there ... although an update from time to time would be a nice thing Hint Hint Does anyone have an update on the Civ2 multi ??? Microprose is really ticking me off with their unexplained delays !!!
Mortis	posted 11-04-98 03:06 AM ET Most games that take absolutely ages to develope are usualy the best ones. Although Firaxis have prcticaly tortured us with the story and these forums, where crawling the walls waiting for the demo. I think that I wouln't mind a 1-2quater 1999 relise date as long as the demo is on 15/10. We all need that taste of the gameplay to keep us interested.
DJ RRebel	posted 11-04-98 10:48 AM ET I couldn't agree with you more ... I just want to start playing something ... I wonder if the demo will support some form of multi !!! Has anyone heard anything from Firaxis or EA ??? I'm sure I remember someone saying 1999Jan20 in the old forum ... Anyways, who cares, as long as the demo has substance to it, I could wait a couple more months !!!
DJ RRebel	posted 11-06-98 10:58 PM ET I hate to say this, but I told you so !!!
Victor Galis	posted 11-06-98 11:04 PM ET Microprose was bought out and came under the possesion of a large corporation, almost all hope is lost. Only Firaxis remains and their game is constantly delayed. Former Microprose shareholder who lost a lot of money.
DJ RRebel	posted 11-07-98 04:34 AM ET Microprose was bought by Hasbro I think !!! They also bought one of the other companies involved in the Civilization name battles .. I think it was Avalon Hill ... I don't think it was Activision !!!
DJ RRebel	posted 11-25-98 12:54 AM ET LOL .. it's looking more and more like my guess is the most acurate to date !!! Anyone actually hear of an actual day in January yet though ??? And does anyone have any news on those other Civ releases ???
WAS	posted 11-25-98 01:23 AM ET DJ I also read someplace that the release date was 1/20/99, but I forget where . As for the "Boredom Blues" do what I did. Buy a new game. I just bought Railroad Tycoon II, I'm getting hooked on those little trains!
Aga1	posted 11-25-98 03:31 PM ET WAS try the multiplayer at heat then you will be addicted to RRT2
Gord McLeod	posted 11-25-98 08:56 PM ET I'm fairly certain one of the Firaxis people said the game release date is January 20th... but confirmation would be terrific. (Of course the usual caveat applies - all release dates, confirmed or otherwise, are approximate till you see it on the store shelf.)
Shining1	posted 11-25-98 10:01 PM ET Sigh. If they confirm the date, and then think of something really good that just HAS to be included, they will only disappoint you with a delay. If not, the game will seem to be taking forever to finish and people will lose interest. The only solution is to transcend to NIM, and play some of the other good games that are out at the moment (Half-life, Fallout2). I hate firm release dates for the same reason I hated set bed-times when I was a kid - they don't take reality into account. The main problem with any iterative process is that it takes much longer than the set procedure, and you usually don't know when you will find the answer (you only have a vague idea of the amount of work involved). Firaxis, according to Brian Reynolds gamespot diaries, uses the 'Iterative design' philosophy. Build it, play it, rebuild it, play it, etc. That means any firm release date is just a stab in the dark. Obviously Firaxis are fairly confident they can get the final product shipped by 20Jan99. But I wouldn't be too hopeful about that date. After all, the best games are those that just sit in the stores for ages, consistantly selling units, like CivII and WarcraftII (which is still selling reasonably well in N.Z). I think this is what firaxis is hoping for, rather than a huge media blitz and heavy sales in the first weeks followed by an almost complete tailoff.
DAT	posted 11-25-98 11:36 PM ET I was the one (or at least one of the ones) who mentioned a second quarter release date. The source was GameWeek magazine, which routinely summarizes upcoming (and updated?) release dates for retailers. Regarding the actual release date: it should be possible to NAIL the release date approximately 4-6 weeks prior to actual release--that's when everything typically has to be in production in order to support product build and ship. Most companies won't begin that cycle until they are positive that they are "finished"--since a change of mind at that point means tossing some or all of the production materials (at least the CD's, often the manuals, and so forth). So, anybody live relatively close to Firaxis or their publisher? One of those two will be coordinating the production process and they will probably use vendors who are fairly close by (in order to facilitate quality control checks).
Octopus	posted 11-26-98 01:23 AM ET "The main problem with any iterative process is that it takes much longer than the set procedure, and you usually don't know when you will find the answer" I don't want to put Firaxis down, but they should have enough experience by now to know how long a game design is going to take. How long has Sid Meier been in this business? How many games that are more or less like SMAC has Brian Reynolds worked on? If the problem that software companies had was "release dates are hard to predict" then games would be finished AHEAD of schedule 50% of the time. Games are ALMOST ALWAYS late.
Gord McLeod	posted 11-26-98 01:52 AM ET The problem is there is no formula in software design that can tell you when it will be finished. Something can ALWAYS go wrong, and there is NO way to pin it down to the point where you can predict with any accuracy when the product will be shipping. It's the same with every company, not just Firaxis...
JingoPenguin	posted 11-26-98 03:34 PM ET I would have thought that if a game is ever completed before schedule then the developers would continue tweaking and improving it which inevitably leads to more bugs. That would be why games are never released early.
DJ RRebel	posted 12-01-98 01:17 PM ET LOL .. good point !!! Hey, If I'm right about 1999Jan20, then 50 days until the full deal !!! And 20 days now until the demo !!! I think the next 2 weeks will be the moments of truth, if they delay the game again, they'll have no real reason to bring it out before spring !!! But on the other hand, if the demo comes out on time, then there's good chance they'll rush it for 1999Jan before gamers spend all their x-mas cash !!!
Lee Johnson	posted 12-01-98 04:43 PM ET If a new game is not on shelves by mid-December, the Christmas cash is, by and large, already spent; in other words, the publisher has already missed the boat. Therefore, since we already know that the game won't be in stores this month, there is little need to rush it to completion--even if the demo appears on time. That said, I would certainly be happy to see the game finished in January. :-)
MikeH II	posted 12-01-98 04:49 PM ET I don't think FIRAXIS will slow down the game just because they've missed the Christmas market.
Lee Johnson	posted 12-01-98 05:00 PM ET I'm not suggesting that they're going to slow down: But there is no need for undue haste. I have to think that if they need more time at this stage, they won't be hesitant about slipping the date as much as they to do a proper job on the game. Admittedly, as a major 'A' title, SMAC is going to do well no matter what time of the year is released, but there is always a boost that comes from making the holiday shopping season--which EA/Firaxis obviously wrote off weeks ago. This is not a complaint, just an observation.
Lee Johnson	posted 12-01-98 05:02 PM ET "...as much as they need to do a proper job." Brain's getting ahead of my fingers again...
CClark	posted 12-01-98 05:03 PM ET Lee, I think what DJ meant was that a lot of people just get money as a Xmas gift (from grandmothers or great aunts who don't have a clue what to give) and so that money is often available in the first couple weeks of January. Gift Certificates fall into the same category. If Firaxis gets the demo out for Christmas, then people may be inclined to hang onto their gift money to buy the game later in January.
Lee Johnson	posted 12-01-98 10:18 PM ET Ah! <slaps forehead> Of course! I was thinking of it from the other end. My apologies for being slow today.
TSJack	posted 12-02-98 01:51 AM ET News on the dates: I got to my store today (after my firt Thanksgiving weekend off in 5 years)and browsed through the release dates for the new games. I am sorry to say that SMAC now has a date in my system for 2/11/99. I havn't seen this date anywhere else, but my corporate office generally wont bother to change a date without word form the publisher. Civ 2 gold may be out this Friday, but after watching that date move back every two weeks since March, I really don't care anymore. Civ: Test of Time has been pushed back to march (thats Microprose's Civ2 sequel) and Civ: Call to Power is still holding at 2/22/99. Hope that helps
Drakenred	posted 12-02-98 02:49 AM ET Is it my imagination is is CivII:TOT litle more than Vaporware? I have been able to find almost nothing on it yetbeyond its pressrelese and a few fuzed out screenshots.
DJ RRebel	posted 12-02-98 03:23 AM ET Thanks for that info !!! As for Civ2Gold, I'll believe it when I see it, in fact, I don't think I'll even bother with it !!! Microprose were really bad in trying to decieve us .. I made a few phone calls to the number on the web site, after they were accepting orders for 3 months (or more), they told me that the game actually might not be released at all because of the mergers !!!
bio_spacer	posted 12-07-98 03:01 PM ET hello again fellow SMACians! if anyone would care to look at the website they would discover that the demo should be released on dec. 20th. NOT on nov.20th. but hey, whats a month matter? lol personally i cant wait till the game comes out!! and the actuall game should come out 4-6 weeks after that, so it SHOULD come out in late jan or early feb. (the later the date the better the game will be) i would have liked to see a slightly different format for the cities though, but oh well i guess i cant change that. DRAT!! cya'll later thats all i gotta say about this topic
DJ RRebel	posted 12-07-98 03:11 PM ET Actually, the release date has been pushed back several times now, the previous release for the demo was for 1998Nov15 !!!
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey	posted 12-07-98 09:29 PM ET bio_spacer, What do you think is wrong with the city format?? I think it's good actually, better than anything else really, IMAO. It reminds me of this ad I saw in a gaming mag saying the release date would be 8/98. I cracked up when I read that again!! I personally can't wait for this game. In fact, my New Years resolution is to destroy the HH 10 times before the month after I got SMAC is out. Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general, YYYH