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Author Topic:   peacefull multiplayer co-existance

tolver posted 05-04-99 06:05 AM ET
i have a steady gaming companion. we play all our multiplayer games together, we even still play moo2 together. to the point, we are allways pact brothers, we allways share all tech, we agree to split all maps evenly and to not violate each others teritory. we are competitive with each other, not against each other. we almost allways win. we have based our relationship on trusting that we will allways support each other in the games we play together. there are problems though. because i refuse to break my pact brother status with him, and he with i, we frequently find other factions declaring vendetta upon either of us because the other one is at war with that faction. is there a war around this nasty little problem of being in for a pact, in for a war?
tolver

Aredhran posted 05-04-99 07:37 AM ET
You must face the consequences. Period. I mean, *I* would declare war on an enemy's ally, if I thought I could take 'em both...

Aredhran
Kris Huysmans posted 05-21-99 01:28 PM ET
I like to play multiplayer human vs computer.
so when youare intressed in play with me sent me an email.
tolver posted 05-21-99 03:37 PM ET
my friend dolph and i play a very specific type of game. we call it "transendance or bust". 7 player, average planet statistics, simu moves, only win by transend, no co-op win, steal base teck, random research, no map. dolph has replaced the gaians with the dolphs, and i have replaced the hive with the tolvers, both custom factions. most would say that we play with powerfull factions, but we also play on thinker.
the games we play typicaly take several days, up to a week. we play to transendance. and the best way to do that is to kill all computer players except for the university, make them surrender to you. killing all the computer players seems to generate problems with conviening councel votes.
dolph and i live in the san francisco bay area, and i dont mind calling across the bay, using my dime so to speak, to co-ord the setup. we do internet tcp/ip connection for direct play, and i host since ive got the isdn line and a fairly fast computer.
if you are interested in joining us, great. you can either use a standard faction, or email me the faction you want to use and i will code it into the alpha.txt. speaking of that file, we have altered the alpha.txt slightly, and i would be more than willing to email you copies of alpha.txt, dolph.txt, and tolver.txt so that you can see exactly what you would be playing with.
actually, i can give you the relevent parts of dolph and tolver texts.
#DOLPH
Descendants of Dolph, The Dolph Like, Dolphins, M, 2, Dolph, M, 1,0,0,1,1,
TECH, 2, SOCIAL, +PLANET, SOCIAL, ++POLICE, SOCIAL, ++INDUSTRY, FACILITY, 9, FACILITY, 7, FACILITY,24 , PSI, 33, POPULATION, 7, TALENT, 5, HURRY, 75, ENERGY, 100
Economics, Green, PLANET
Economics, Free Market, nil
#TOLVER
Tolver, The Benifactor, Tolver, M, 1, Tolver, M, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1,
FACILITY, 2, PSI, 25, FANATIC, 0, SOCIAL, +ECONOMY, SOCIAL, +SUPPORT, SOCIAL, +MORALE, SOCIAL, +POLICE, SOCIAL, +PLANET, SOCIAL, +PROBE, SOCIAL, +INDUSTRY
nil, nil, nil
anybody else interested in playing, leave a reply here and i will email you my ip address.
tolver
Kris Huysmans posted 05-22-99 05:28 AM ET
I live in Belgium and my time zone is total diferent with your. So I don't know of it is possible to play togetter.
jimmytrick posted 05-22-99 04:23 PM ET
Peaceniks! You guys need to get another board. Peaceniks! "Me and my friend like to team up on the big, bad, computer players." Blah! Wimpniks! Non-SMAC playing wimpniks!
Pactniks! Blah! I'm glad Darkstar didn't see your post, he would have a coronary.
Blah! When you guys get tired of your little loveSmac I'll take you all on and spank your little sweet bottoms!
tolver posted 05-23-99 09:17 PM ET
how unfortunite that you are so limited in your gameplay that you can only kill your opponent rather than see the deeper complexities of gameplay and realise that you are really playing against yourself, not your opponent.
the simplest way to win the game is to kill everybody and stand on a hill of dead bodies as you plant your flag of victory.
i can see a deeper level of the game, and perfer to play with the other players to get the best score that i can.
yes i do kill a few players every so often, thats part of the game, but i do not subscribe to your bludlust point of view towards gameplay. if i wanted to simply kill my opponent i would play doom.
there are reasons for why the game designers put in ways to win the game other than simply killing everybody. perhaps you should read your game manuel and try a more challenging game, not killing the opponent. dont hurt yourself though, heh.
as for you being able to kill me quickly in a game, im sure you could, perhaps not.
as for you being able to win without ever killing any other player, i doubt you could do that, i can, and do.
tolver
Kris Huysmans posted 05-24-99 02:35 AM ET
I agree,
Because the commerce income between pact broders. Is it a good idea to have at least one economic strong ally. And large empires will give inefficiency and riots so 2 allies will be stronger then one supper empire. When they work smart togetter.
cousLee posted 05-24-99 03:04 AM ET
I can play both ways. Peacefull (unless necessary to war) until the end, and quick conquest/bloodlust. But I can do both without altering the .txt files to make some super faction. There is nothing wrong with you and your buddy playing tag team. Play it without altering .txt, and I might be interested. Otherwise, it's just cheating. it appears your .txt setting have no negative balances. How can you not win with that. Those setting are absurd! IMNSHO
jimmytrick posted 05-24-99 12:15 PM ET
tolver, let me respond:
1.how unfortunite that you are so limited in your gameplay that you can only kill your
opponent rather than see the deeper complexities of gameplay and realise that you are really playing against yourself, not your opponent.
FYI, I always win by Ascent or Diplomatic Victory. Whether or not I am playing against myself or an opponent is beside the point. At least I am playing by myself! Apparently, you need help to play against yourself. Wimpniks!
2. the simplest way to win the game is to kill everybody and stand on a hill of dead bodies as you plant your flag of victory.
Total BS! The simplest way to win is to have a buddy to help double team the AI and to create superfactions to play with! Peaceniks!
3. i can see a deeper level of the game, and perfer to play with the other players to get
the best score that i can.
Don't you mean "get the best score that we can"? If you look a little deeper, pal, you'd see me way the hell ahead of your little merry band, posting great scores all by my lonesome. Non-SMAC playing Pactniks!!
4. yes i do kill a few players every so often, thats part of the game, but i do not subscribe to your bludlust point of view towards gameplay. if i wanted to simply kill my opponent i would play doom.
And no doubt with several buddies to watch your back! Blah!
5.there are reasons for why the game designers put in ways to win the game other than simply killing everybody. perhaps you should read your game manuel and try a more
challenging game, not killing the opponent. dont hurt yourself though, heh.
Check out my Moses on the Mountain Challenge. If you want to "try a more challenging game". Of course, this would not be your style, as you would have to play it by yourself. ("Mommy, make the mean mind worms stop eating my [single] brain cell!" cried Tolver.)
6.as for you being able to kill me quickly in a game, im sure you could, perhaps not.
I did not say I would kill you quickly. I said I would spank your sweet little bottom and your buddy's too. If, and I said if, I were to kill you, it wouldn't be quick! First, I would disarm you, then I would play with you, and later, when I became bored by your pitiful screams, then I would bring you a present. I would bring you a gaggle of mind worms, and release them at your doorstep. hahahahaha!
7. as for you being able to win without ever killing any other player, i doubt you could do that, i can, and do.
Er, you mean, like, "we can, and we do" You and your buddies! Hah!
doubt me at your peril
jimmytrick
tfs99 posted 05-24-99 03:38 PM ET
>>>>> jimmetrick
Chill, jt, chill. It's a game and people can play however they want.
If you're serious about playing MP SMAC, then posting insulting/assaulting diatribes like this isn't gonna win ya many SMAC buddies to play with.
SMAC n ... Ted S.
jimmytrick posted 05-24-99 04:15 PM ET
chill, tfs99, chill
It was all meant in good fun.
I did not mean to offend.
I am sorry, to Tolver, and to all who I may have offended by my insulting/assaulting diatribes.
tolver posted 05-24-99 08:19 PM ET
actualy, i was not offended. i took it with a grain of salt, having allready had my share of flame-wars, i no longer feel the need to become insulting/assaulting to anybody, and i am not offended by those who are insulting/assaulting.
so you think i should take some negatives, well, posted above are the stats i play with, what would you suggest as far as negatives go, to make my faction more balanced? what do you think makes a well balanced faction?
tolver
tfs99 posted 05-24-99 08:33 PM ET
My mistake. <grovel>
SMAC n ... Ted S.
Rasputine posted 05-24-99 09:13 PM ET
umm...this diabrites ...i love the word :-)...points out one issue that interests me:
Do you think a non-agressive style of play can win an agressive one?
Zooming to the point, i'm talking in a standart rules MP game (no spoils of war) and, let's say a Standart Map.
Rasputine
Mongoose posted 05-24-99 10:36 PM ET
Rasputine, Damn good question. I expect only time will tell. When the current round of 'challenges' wind down, we ought to have a better idea, that is, if anyone in those groups tries to play that way.
My personal belief is that it depends on how good a DIPLOMAT the player is.
Rasputine posted 05-25-99 02:08 PM ET
Yep...I imagine that will be one of the major issues. My game in 'may Madness' tournament is going on this direction. I'm playing PKs and Micje playing Spartans. I think there will be a 'Truth momentum'...the developement of Planet Busters: if the non-agressive player is ahead on research enough to resist them, i think he could win
Rasputine
Mongoose posted 05-25-99 07:48 PM ET
Another thought. How do you think the number of AI vs. the number of Human impacts the effect? Aren't the May madness games 5 AI, 2 Hum.? One of my current MP games is a 7 Hum. pbem. An off the top perspective is the builder might have an easier time in 7H because no faction
will automatically hate his SE. Hmm. On the other hand, the conquerers will definitely be more adept than the AI. Hmm. on the other hand, nobody will have unlimited range missiles or AAA transports. Hmm...
Wait, I ran out of hands. Bears pondering.
Darkstar posted 05-26-99 03:26 PM ET
Jimmy,
Nice of you to point out that they can play buddy against the AI. Whether they would survive/win against an Aggressive Human is another question. However, did you really want to warn them to guard those bottoms? You must be looking for a challenge! Did you plan on using a vanilla faction, or an Uber faction like they use?
If they really enjoy it, let them. Its not like they are going to impinge upon your play.
And Tolver, you and Dolph may want to consider using straight factions to see how they do in your buddy system. You might enjoy the challenges a little more.
-Darkstar
Rasputine posted 05-26-99 10:47 PM ET
In a 7 human, probaby will depend much on Humans:-)...which turns things even more complex.
But as you mentioned, diplomacy is the key..if someone is getting militarly powerful, you should be able to seduce others to restrict his power.
On other way, you will have to make sure he (or they) doesn't ally to a 'researcher faction'...that could be fatal.
Anyway, you will have to fight ..someone will attack you almost for sure. And the difficult thing (at least for me) is too get a balanced development and an efficient defense, at the same time.
On the other hand:-), Human tend be more cooperative, at the begining, which gives a time out to the builder to grow...
The Empath Guild And/or to be elect Planetary Governor will be Keys points to the builder...the Infiltrator in each faction will give the chance to antecipate the directions the agressive opponent will take
Rasputine
Rasputine
MichaeltheGreat posted 05-27-99 04:18 PM ET
Aredhran is right. You support your ally. Your ally is at war with me, but you share research, maps, give shelter to his units, blah blah blah - you are at war with me also, whether you shoot or not. You both die. Period. No mercy. Period.
tolver posted 05-27-99 07:32 PM ET
to darkstar;
we have played with the standard factions, and have tired of them.
the manual talks of editing the .txt files, and encourages the player to do so, so it cant be considerd a taboo thing. as long as all the participants agree to the edited versions of the .txt files, its not cheating.
the cheating comes in when the player fails to also alter all the faction files so that the computer players at least have a chance against whatever the human players have done to their custom faction files.
is there a place to aquire an updated set of default faction .txt files that are several orders higher in playing ability, yet keep an even balance to the game?
the only reason i alter my .txt files is to try to get some different play out of the game, it has been a long time since i lost to the computer, solo or with another human player pactbrother. it would be nice to have a computer opponent that is actually enough of a threat that i would HAVE to alter my custom faction .txt file in order to be able to if not win at least no loose to.
but how far is too far? who draws the line? and where is the line drawn?
tolver
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Author	Topic: peacefull multiplayer co-existance
tolver	posted 05-04-99 06:05 AM ET i have a steady gaming companion. we play all our multiplayer games together, we even still play moo2 together. to the point, we are allways pact brothers, we allways share all tech, we agree to split all maps evenly and to not violate each others teritory. we are competitive with each other, not against each other. we almost allways win. we have based our relationship on trusting that we will allways support each other in the games we play together. there are problems though. because i refuse to break my pact brother status with him, and he with i, we frequently find other factions declaring vendetta upon either of us because the other one is at war with that faction. is there a war around this nasty little problem of being in for a pact, in for a war? tolver
Aredhran	posted 05-04-99 07:37 AM ET You must face the consequences. Period. I mean, I would declare war on an enemy's ally, if I thought I could take 'em both... Aredhran
Kris Huysmans	posted 05-21-99 01:28 PM ET I like to play multiplayer human vs computer. so when youare intressed in play with me sent me an email.
tolver	posted 05-21-99 03:37 PM ET my friend dolph and i play a very specific type of game. we call it "transendance or bust". 7 player, average planet statistics, simu moves, only win by transend, no co-op win, steal base teck, random research, no map. dolph has replaced the gaians with the dolphs, and i have replaced the hive with the tolvers, both custom factions. most would say that we play with powerfull factions, but we also play on thinker. the games we play typicaly take several days, up to a week. we play to transendance. and the best way to do that is to kill all computer players except for the university, make them surrender to you. killing all the computer players seems to generate problems with conviening councel votes. dolph and i live in the san francisco bay area, and i dont mind calling across the bay, using my dime so to speak, to co-ord the setup. we do internet tcp/ip connection for direct play, and i host since ive got the isdn line and a fairly fast computer. if you are interested in joining us, great. you can either use a standard faction, or email me the faction you want to use and i will code it into the alpha.txt. speaking of that file, we have altered the alpha.txt slightly, and i would be more than willing to email you copies of alpha.txt, dolph.txt, and tolver.txt so that you can see exactly what you would be playing with. actually, i can give you the relevent parts of dolph and tolver texts. #DOLPH Descendants of Dolph, The Dolph Like, Dolphins, M, 2, Dolph, M, 1,0,0,1,1, TECH, 2, SOCIAL, +PLANET, SOCIAL, ++POLICE, SOCIAL, ++INDUSTRY, FACILITY, 9, FACILITY, 7, FACILITY,24 , PSI, 33, POPULATION, 7, TALENT, 5, HURRY, 75, ENERGY, 100 Economics, Green, PLANET Economics, Free Market, nil #TOLVER Tolver, The Benifactor, Tolver, M, 1, Tolver, M, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, FACILITY, 2, PSI, 25, FANATIC, 0, SOCIAL, +ECONOMY, SOCIAL, +SUPPORT, SOCIAL, +MORALE, SOCIAL, +POLICE, SOCIAL, +PLANET, SOCIAL, +PROBE, SOCIAL, +INDUSTRY nil, nil, nil anybody else interested in playing, leave a reply here and i will email you my ip address. tolver
Kris Huysmans	posted 05-22-99 05:28 AM ET I live in Belgium and my time zone is total diferent with your. So I don't know of it is possible to play togetter.
jimmytrick	posted 05-22-99 04:23 PM ET Peaceniks! You guys need to get another board. Peaceniks! "Me and my friend like to team up on the big, bad, computer players." Blah! Wimpniks! Non-SMAC playing wimpniks! Pactniks! Blah! I'm glad Darkstar didn't see your post, he would have a coronary. Blah! When you guys get tired of your little loveSmac I'll take you all on and spank your little sweet bottoms!
tolver	posted 05-23-99 09:17 PM ET how unfortunite that you are so limited in your gameplay that you can only kill your opponent rather than see the deeper complexities of gameplay and realise that you are really playing against yourself, not your opponent. the simplest way to win the game is to kill everybody and stand on a hill of dead bodies as you plant your flag of victory. i can see a deeper level of the game, and perfer to play with the other players to get the best score that i can. yes i do kill a few players every so often, thats part of the game, but i do not subscribe to your bludlust point of view towards gameplay. if i wanted to simply kill my opponent i would play doom. there are reasons for why the game designers put in ways to win the game other than simply killing everybody. perhaps you should read your game manuel and try a more challenging game, not killing the opponent. dont hurt yourself though, heh. as for you being able to kill me quickly in a game, im sure you could, perhaps not. as for you being able to win without ever killing any other player, i doubt you could do that, i can, and do. tolver
Kris Huysmans	posted 05-24-99 02:35 AM ET I agree, Because the commerce income between pact broders. Is it a good idea to have at least one economic strong ally. And large empires will give inefficiency and riots so 2 allies will be stronger then one supper empire. When they work smart togetter.
cousLee	posted 05-24-99 03:04 AM ET I can play both ways. Peacefull (unless necessary to war) until the end, and quick conquest/bloodlust. But I can do both without altering the .txt files to make some super faction. There is nothing wrong with you and your buddy playing tag team. Play it without altering .txt, and I might be interested. Otherwise, it's just cheating. it appears your .txt setting have no negative balances. How can you not win with that. Those setting are absurd! IMNSHO
jimmytrick	posted 05-24-99 12:15 PM ET tolver, let me respond: 1.how unfortunite that you are so limited in your gameplay that you can only kill your opponent rather than see the deeper complexities of gameplay and realise that you are really playing against yourself, not your opponent. FYI, I always win by Ascent or Diplomatic Victory. Whether or not I am playing against myself or an opponent is beside the point. At least I am playing by myself! Apparently, you need help to play against yourself. Wimpniks! 2. the simplest way to win the game is to kill everybody and stand on a hill of dead bodies as you plant your flag of victory. Total BS! The simplest way to win is to have a buddy to help double team the AI and to create superfactions to play with! Peaceniks! 3. i can see a deeper level of the game, and perfer to play with the other players to get the best score that i can. Don't you mean "get the best score that we can"? If you look a little deeper, pal, you'd see me way the hell ahead of your little merry band, posting great scores all by my lonesome. Non-SMAC playing Pactniks!! 4. yes i do kill a few players every so often, thats part of the game, but i do not subscribe to your bludlust point of view towards gameplay. if i wanted to simply kill my opponent i would play doom. And no doubt with several buddies to watch your back! Blah! 5.there are reasons for why the game designers put in ways to win the game other than simply killing everybody. perhaps you should read your game manuel and try a more challenging game, not killing the opponent. dont hurt yourself though, heh. Check out my Moses on the Mountain Challenge. If you want to "try a more challenging game". Of course, this would not be your style, as you would have to play it by yourself. ("Mommy, make the mean mind worms stop eating my [single] brain cell!" cried Tolver.) 6.as for you being able to kill me quickly in a game, im sure you could, perhaps not. I did not say I would kill you quickly. I said I would spank your sweet little bottom and your buddy's too. If, and I said if, I were to kill you, it wouldn't be quick! First, I would disarm you, then I would play with you, and later, when I became bored by your pitiful screams, then I would bring you a present. I would bring you a gaggle of mind worms, and release them at your doorstep. hahahahaha! 7. as for you being able to win without ever killing any other player, i doubt you could do that, i can, and do. Er, you mean, like, "we can, and we do" You and your buddies! Hah! doubt me at your peril jimmytrick
tfs99	posted 05-24-99 03:38 PM ET >>>>> jimmetrick Chill, jt, chill. It's a game and people can play however they want. If you're serious about playing MP SMAC, then posting insulting/assaulting diatribes like this isn't gonna win ya many SMAC buddies to play with. SMAC n ... Ted S.
jimmytrick	posted 05-24-99 04:15 PM ET chill, tfs99, chill It was all meant in good fun. I did not mean to offend. I am sorry, to Tolver, and to all who I may have offended by my insulting/assaulting diatribes.
tolver	posted 05-24-99 08:19 PM ET actualy, i was not offended. i took it with a grain of salt, having allready had my share of flame-wars, i no longer feel the need to become insulting/assaulting to anybody, and i am not offended by those who are insulting/assaulting. so you think i should take some negatives, well, posted above are the stats i play with, what would you suggest as far as negatives go, to make my faction more balanced? what do you think makes a well balanced faction? tolver
tfs99	posted 05-24-99 08:33 PM ET My mistake. <grovel> SMAC n ... Ted S.
Rasputine	posted 05-24-99 09:13 PM ET umm...this diabrites ...i love the word :-)...points out one issue that interests me: Do you think a non-agressive style of play can win an agressive one? Zooming to the point, i'm talking in a standart rules MP game (no spoils of war) and, let's say a Standart Map. Rasputine
Mongoose	posted 05-24-99 10:36 PM ET Rasputine, Damn good question. I expect only time will tell. When the current round of 'challenges' wind down, we ought to have a better idea, that is, if anyone in those groups tries to play that way. My personal belief is that it depends on how good a DIPLOMAT the player is.
Rasputine	posted 05-25-99 02:08 PM ET Yep...I imagine that will be one of the major issues. My game in 'may Madness' tournament is going on this direction. I'm playing PKs and Micje playing Spartans. I think there will be a 'Truth momentum'...the developement of Planet Busters: if the non-agressive player is ahead on research enough to resist them, i think he could win Rasputine
Mongoose	posted 05-25-99 07:48 PM ET Another thought. How do you think the number of AI vs. the number of Human impacts the effect? Aren't the May madness games 5 AI, 2 Hum.? One of my current MP games is a 7 Hum. pbem. An off the top perspective is the builder might have an easier time in 7H because no faction will automatically hate his SE. Hmm. On the other hand, the conquerers will definitely be more adept than the AI. Hmm. on the other hand, nobody will have unlimited range missiles or AAA transports. Hmm... Wait, I ran out of hands. Bears pondering.
Darkstar	posted 05-26-99 03:26 PM ET Jimmy, Nice of you to point out that they can play buddy against the AI. Whether they would survive/win against an Aggressive Human is another question. However, did you really want to warn them to guard those bottoms? You must be looking for a challenge! Did you plan on using a vanilla faction, or an Uber faction like they use? If they really enjoy it, let them. Its not like they are going to impinge upon your play. And Tolver, you and Dolph may want to consider using straight factions to see how they do in your buddy system. You might enjoy the challenges a little more. -Darkstar
Rasputine	posted 05-26-99 10:47 PM ET In a 7 human, probaby will depend much on Humans:-)...which turns things even more complex. But as you mentioned, diplomacy is the key..if someone is getting militarly powerful, you should be able to seduce others to restrict his power. On other way, you will have to make sure he (or they) doesn't ally to a 'researcher faction'...that could be fatal. Anyway, you will have to fight ..someone will attack you almost for sure. And the difficult thing (at least for me) is too get a balanced development and an efficient defense, at the same time. On the other hand:-), Human tend be more cooperative, at the begining, which gives a time out to the builder to grow... The Empath Guild And/or to be elect Planetary Governor will be Keys points to the builder...the Infiltrator in each faction will give the chance to antecipate the directions the agressive opponent will take Rasputine Rasputine
MichaeltheGreat	posted 05-27-99 04:18 PM ET Aredhran is right. You support your ally. Your ally is at war with me, but you share research, maps, give shelter to his units, blah blah blah - you are at war with me also, whether you shoot or not. You both die. Period. No mercy. Period.
tolver	posted 05-27-99 07:32 PM ET to darkstar; we have played with the standard factions, and have tired of them. the manual talks of editing the .txt files, and encourages the player to do so, so it cant be considerd a taboo thing. as long as all the participants agree to the edited versions of the .txt files, its not cheating. the cheating comes in when the player fails to also alter all the faction files so that the computer players at least have a chance against whatever the human players have done to their custom faction files. is there a place to aquire an updated set of default faction .txt files that are several orders higher in playing ability, yet keep an even balance to the game? the only reason i alter my .txt files is to try to get some different play out of the game, it has been a long time since i lost to the computer, solo or with another human player pactbrother. it would be nice to have a computer opponent that is actually enough of a threat that i would HAVE to alter my custom faction .txt file in order to be able to if not win at least no loose to. but how far is too far? who draws the line? and where is the line drawn? tolver