posted 06-21-99 09:21 AM ET         

......... there is another theory which states that this has already happend.......

posted 06-22-99 11:08 AM ET            

"Provost Alex DePol, father of the University Atmospheric Corps unveils the first air unit of Chiron"

For the first time in history of Chiron a flight capable vehicle was unveiled at the 16th military parade in the UoP capitol, University Base.

Code named Needlejet 6-1-20 it has flown over the heads of cheering University citizens and disappeared in the distance.

Succesfull dynamics and weapons tests were conducted in the far reaches of University air space in show of strength to any Believing units that might be lurking out there.

With protoype costs slashed by 50%, the Academic Assembly has passed funding for manufacture of at leat another 10 needlejets.

posted 06-23-99 09:24 AM ET         

Today one of our Rovers....belonging to our elite armys crack squad"the four horsemen"
was under a suprise attack from the believers....luckily the three other rovers were nearby to lend a hand....
Of course we have now declared vendetta upon them.Other factions such as the morgans and gaians were very quick on the scene to help out offering us help in wiping this scum from chiron....

I emplore yourselves to help Us out...as it may be only a matter of time before "sister"Miriam does this to one of you....

Morale is keeping high in our ranks though , despite the threat that we may be under heavy assault in a matter of days.....troops have been rumored to be singing"lock up ya daughter lock up ya wife.lock up ya back door and run for ya life".
"keeping spirits high is our no1 priority"said colnel santiago in a speech earlier on today....

posted 06-24-99 02:53 PM ET            

"Our fellow allies in this war with the fanatic Miriam, especially, the University, should have immediately given us free access to the power of flight."

Red faced, our leader pounded the podium frequently throughout his speech. "Planetary peace should be a common concern, the prime motivation for responsible faction leaders. Have we forgotten the lessons of the past, that we seek to horde technology? That path is the path of the tyrant and leads only to destruction."

"For he who seeks to stem the free flow of imformation harbors the mad desire of planetary dominion."

posted 06-24-99 07:52 PM ET         

We have faith that our more technologically advanced neighbours will not use their great advancements in acts of naked aggression against their peaceful allies, but rather for the advancement of all humans surviving on this alien world.

posted 06-25-99 04:08 AM ET            

There is no denying that this technology gives its owners an upper hand in military operations and diplomatic negotiations.

posted 06-26-99 08:27 AM ET         

This confidential file (accurate as of 2186) contains the complete military defences of Miraim's forces and is available on request.

Given the current limited police action being undertaken to prevent Believer aggression and the current state of vendetta between Miriam and all other peaceful nations of Chiron, we strongly suggest that it is requested quickly.

posted 06-26-99 10:32 AM ET            

The Hive thereby has demonstrated its desire for the peaceful coexistance of all humans on Chiron.

posted 06-26-99 11:27 AM ET            

RULES

Cheats (not allowed):

A1> Multiple reloading the game to try for diffrent effects.
A2> Multiple drops or orbital insertions using the right-click menu.
A3> Taking advantage of the Secnario Editor bug.
A4> Carry terraforming trick Crediting up your formers and moving them to a new
location to get instant improvements.
A5> If a player employs a tactic that causes a state of vendetta, They are not allowed
to "accept" a pending diplomatic agreement with that faction.
A6> Treatied or Pacted faction probe team action answer "Declare Vendetta" unless
permission is received in advance from the other player to "Let off with stern warning".
A7> Setting a unit's home base to a pactbrother's base is not allowed.

Settings:

B1a> Upgrading units with the design workshop not allowed.
B1b> Upgrading units with the design workshop is allowed at end of turn.
B1c> Upgrading units with the design workshop is allowed anytime.

B3a> No base trading with the AI at any time.

B4a> Social engineering choice limited to one switch per line every 5 yrs.
B4b> Social engineering choice limited to one switch per line every 3 yrs.
B4c> No social engineering limits. (or custom setting).

I propose settings: B1b and B4b.

Please vote:

Yes to all or yes to all but (list change)

posted 06-26-99 01:29 PM ET         

A5> If a player employs a tactic that causes a state of vendetta, They are not allowed
to "accept" a pending diplomatic agreement with that faction.

So if my pact brother uses PBs with the UN charter in place, I must go into vendetta with them ?

A6> Treatied or Pacted faction probe team action answer "Declare Vendetta" unless
permission is received in advance from the other player to "Let off with stern warning".

Why can't we decide ? I would like to choose my answer. (Although Vendetta going to be the obvious choice !)

Settings:
B1b> Upgrading units with the design workshop is allowed at end of turn.

Okay. B1c could take ages for large numbers of units.

B4c> No social engineering limits. (or custom setting).

posted 06-26-99 01:36 PM ET            

I propose B4c. I will most likely violate B4b if enforced since this would require me to record the year of last SE change and I am sure that I will forget to do that on occasion. SE at any time is not a cheat if everybody can do it. Nobody gains any clear advantage.

posted 06-26-99 01:58 PM ET            

1. A5> If a player employs a tactic that causes a state of vendetta, They are not allowed to "accept" a pending diplomatic agreement with that faction.

So if my pact brother uses PBs with the UN charter in place, I must go into vendetta
with them ?

[[the multiplayer works is like this: I agree to a trade of tech with you and "accept". You see this, close the diplomatic screen, launch a sneak attack that creates VENDETTA! You can then reopen the diplomacy screen and accept the trade of tech.

At least I think that is what it means, as I have not experienced it. I guess it is designed to limit backstabing. I don't feel strongly about it really, but it is the accepted norm.]]

A6> Treatied or Pacted faction probe team action answer "Declare Vendetta" unless
permission is received in advance from the other player to "Let off with stern warning".

Why can't we decide ? I would like to choose my answer. (Although Vendetta going to
be the obvious choice !)

[[Again, I have not personally experienced this, but there is supposed to be a bug in the game wherein if I probe you, I get the message to declare vendetta or let off with a stern warning, instead of you getting to decide. I suppose you would not even know that you had been probed. Major flaw. A6 sets declare vendetta as default, although it requires honesty from the prober. Under this rule I might ask and receive permission to probe, thereafter using "let off with stern warning".]]

I hope this clears rather than muddies the already murky water!

I agree to change to B4c. Always willing to keep peace with powerful UoP and friendly PKs

posted 06-27-99 10:52 AM ET         

I fail to see a distinct advantage to the faction concernd or the disadvantage to the other factions with regards to B4c.
everything else seems in order....

posted 06-27-99 11:03 AM ET         

got confused there...

posted 06-29-99 11:13 AM ET            

For some time now the three factions were cooperating with eachother within the terms of their military treaties and commercial aggrements.

Today this cooperation was taken to yet another level as a TRIAXIS PACT OF CHIRON was signed between the three peoples.

When ratified by all governments, the pact is expected to benefit its participants greatly. University technological leadership, together with Spartan warfare expertise and Gaian understanding of Chiron's whether patterns and native lifeforms, will result in a formidable power block capable of influencing decisions of the planet's Council.

Already there are signs that other took notice of this event as Sister Miriam of the fanatical Believers has contacted Provost Aklex DePol and offered peace in exchange for vendetta agains the Peacekeepers.

Offer was rejected.

posted 06-29-99 12:48 PM ET            

Rumors are rampant of University spy plane incursions into Hive territory. One unconfirmed report of a Uni-TPC Missle Needlejet border violation has been widely circulated. According to the uncomfirmed report Hive choppers chased the offending squadron to the outskirts of Society Grid before breaking off contact.

posted 06-30-99 12:56 AM ET            

Instead of chppers chasing our needlejet, the patrol has located a heavily aromred rover division just south-west of Uni border. Now, why would anybody position such a unit right next to its allies border? Maybe its trying to find a better grade fungus for the Chairman to smoke.

UoP has no hostile intentions against the Human Hive.

posted 06-30-99 03:11 AM ET         

Historians were rumored to say"we havent seen scenes like these since the wright brothers took their 1st flight all those years ago..."

After setting down in bunker 118 and refuelling El Presidente Simon stated that "this unit shall see combat immediately".
and later said"we have decided to fund a grant to produce 3 more of these needlejets in the near future to fight the good fight"

he failed to state what "the good fight" was but sources can only assume that he meant with our continuing war against the believers...

Colnel Santiago was very happy indeed , as now she is recieving more funding for her millitaristic objectives....

On a lighter note now, the recent fashion show @ bunker 118 amused all that were there for unveiling of our newest and "best ever looking" clothing.Models were wearing metallic Bras fashioned out of discarded missle warheads.Provost DePol seemed very interested in our recycling techniques used in making these garmets, and he took some of the models back with him to "climatic research" to show off this amazing technology to his peoples.

posted 06-30-99 01:45 PM ET         

Hope the rash is clearing up, I know mine has been much better since I tried your "Herbal" remedy... Anyway, thought you should know that a large force of Believer troops (4 inf squads and 1 former) is currently sitting 2 squares SW of New Jerusalem, just inside the Believr / Gaian boarder. This puts them in striking range of your poorly defended Easten Base !

I'm hope that this information smoothes the path toward a lasting Peace between our people, and I'm sure your new pact brothers will rush to your aid.

Yours,

U

posted 07-01-99 03:30 PM ET            

The Chairman sadly announced today that Morgan industries landed an invasion force on the Hive mainland. When asked politely to withdraw Morgan declared Vendetta, at which time the offending forces were eradicated by Hive rovers.

posted 07-02-99 01:21 AM ET            

We are shocked to learn of this event. Morgans are Pact Brothers with the University but yet no such violent intentions were communicated to our government.

Provost Alex DePol himself has made an urgent secure AVlink to CEO Morgan in search of explanation.

When asked whether this invasion was a response to Hive's aggresive posture, the CEO responded "a... not quite"

- not quite? My dear CEO, you are putting the University in an awkward position. We cannot possibly assist you in anyway unless you were the victim.

- well...you must realise Provost that the Hive is just waiting for an opportunity to grab our land, money and women! This was simply a pre-emptive strike.

- I got a feeling that you are over reacting to nothing more than a speculation. Is there any evidence of Chaiman jimmytrick's intentions...

- Over-reacting?! Do not insult my intellegence Provost DePol. We have a pact and I expect you to help me out on this one. I can finance your war effort and then some more...if you are willing to take my side.

- [gasp] I think we should meet face to face before any commitments are made on my part. I also need to talk to Chairman jimmytrick about this conflict.

posted 07-03-99 12:24 PM ET            

Chairman jimmytrick was incensed at the ploy of Spartan Presdent Symen. "Two can play at that game", he said. Speculation is rampant that Hive technicians are preparing to transfer DAP files to Sister Miriam.

It is clear that Hive power brokers are dismayed at the reaction of Tri-Chiron to the
unprovoked Morgan invasion. UoP-Hive posters have been ripped down by angry workers.

Chairman jimmytrick has expressed confidence that Provost Depol did not have any prior knowledge of the Spartan's move. "The University is our friend, we have no doubt that they will soon prevail upon Morgan and symen to lay this ugly matter to rest".

The Hive people are pleased to trust the judgement of the Chairman, but many wonder how jimmytrick is so assured of the Provost's intentions.

It is also known that the Chairman has sent word to the so called Planetary Govenor that the Peacekeepers "are required to respond to the Spartan escalation of this conflict.

Many of the people are in turmoil. Prisoners from the Morgan invasion force have been paraded through the streets of Paradise Swarming. It was all security could do to prevent the people from uncivil actions.

posted 07-03-99 02:24 PM ET            

With the disclosure of AIR POWER to the Believers by the Hive, the University will be drawn into the conflict since it is at war with Sister Miriam.

Through Chairman jimmytrick's generosity towards the Believers, he will in effect aid them in the war effort against the UoP.

posted 07-04-99 01:42 AM ET            

"We have not granted DAP to Sister Miriam. We do not wish to pursue an escalation of hostilities to a Planet-wide scale.

posted 07-04-99 05:29 AM ET            

Let it be clear that the formation of the Triaxis Pact was in response to the Believers's threat.

Sister Miriam has launched a major offensive on the Spartan and Gaian territories and as the terms of the Pact require, the University has respnded by sending troops over to the Gaian-Believing border in attempt to stop the Beleiving intrusion.

posted 07-04-99 09:13 AM ET         

The chairman would need to come up with a good excuse for @ one moment he states"free tech for all" and the next -when it doesn't suit him, claims that we are in the wrong...by supplying our pact brothers with some technology.If he must disclose"Air Power" to the believers then so be it....but remember....sooner or later...sister Miriam will come after your soul as well.

posted 07-04-99 10:54 PM ET            

The content of this message is very disturbing and its validity is questioned as it may be just en exercise in propaganda aimed and destabilising UoP relations with the Spartan Federeation.

posted 07-05-99 09:37 AM ET         

So if you guys want to continue then fine.I want no further part in what has been a memorable PBEM to say the least.If you want my password just someone email me and ask for it.There will be no redemption from this this time.And no I dont want back in....(although some courtesy grovelling would be nice

El Presidente` Simon

posted 07-05-99 02:33 PM ET            

I am trying to piece together how this latest flap came about from the posts here and various e-mail exchanges.

Wouldn't we all feel silly if this is all a misunderstanding.

I am going to address a few points, I hope that I do not compromise any game "secrets" by doing so. If so, please forgive me. I am also going to post excerpts from e-mail, I hope this is not objectionable either.

I understand that Umbra sent to all parties a message that was intended for my eyes only. There are, of course, messages between the three of you that I have not seen.

From the information I have at hand, the following is apparent:

1. Brother Umbra enquired of me if sending a old turn and password to me was legal. Partial text of e-mail follows:

"I haven't had time to do a full report on UoP or Morgan forces... To save
time what if I was to send you my old turn and password.. You could load it
and see for yourself; If this legal ? Email me back and let me know."

The good Brother and I had recently forged a secret alliance to counter the Triaxis Pact between Alex, Symen, and Gaian AI. [This was made known to Alex in a recent e-mail by Umbra] I replied to Umbra by e-mail as follows:

"It would not be legal to send me your old turn. Please check and give me quick highlights when you can. Key things I would like to know are Morgan air, naval, energy levels plus report on UoP air strength."

Clearly, the good Brother was not intending to CHEAT, he was merely trying to think of a quick way to transfer data to his ally. We all have more to do than SMAC, the reports I was requesting would have taken a great deal of time. I never received an old turn/password from him. Where is the issue?

2. It is clear that some of us did not know that the Planetary Govenor (Umbra) had infiltrator status in the first place. Excerpt from e-mail text provided to me:

>Thanx for the information. I wander how do you compile report about ******
>forces. Is it because of an SP or are you just cheating somehow.
>There is no doubt that sending your save game and password to ****** is
>cheating!

(I *** a couple of items there, censorship in the hope of peace )

I hope that no one thinks that Umbra has been hacking or manipulating .sav files to get information. He is free to use info he gets as Gov in any way he sees fit. Except, of course, that the practice of sending old game files is a sticky wicket.

My original reply to Umbra was that is not legal. The more I think about it, however, the more I question my own conclusion. Why is it cheating? What info can be gained from an old .sav that he could not otherwise relay using other methods?

I will put this question out into the community and expect that others will have some opinion on this issue.

Finally, I have an issue of my own. Not with anyone in the game, but with Firaxis.

I was in a state of Vendetta with Morgan AI(he declared it, not me). The last turn I received I was shocked to see that a Treaty of Friendship had sprung up between us. I have experienced a unilateral truce being called many times between myself and the AI.
But never this. How the heck can I be forced into Friendship without my permission? Needless to say I contacted Morgan immediately and he promptly declared vendetta again. Still, I wonder how this came about. Anyone reading this post please e-mail me if you have seen this before in SP or MP.

BTW, if this game is over, I claim victory as the power ratings show that my faction is clearly dominant (whether this is due to my brillant play or the simple fact that I am Hive is beside the point). Unless someone can explain to me that Umbra has cheated, he will share in this victory as he is my pact brother. The Gaian AI is my ally as well, so I guess Deiedre and I will celebrate privately as well.

Planet-Peace-Prosperity
(will kill you all later)

jimmytrick

posted 07-05-99 11:10 PM ET            

Oh well, its time to find some mature age players....

You are just a bunch of whingers. Oh, no base trading! oh no this no that... crybabies.

But hey, lets not start a flame war here...cause I am sure that even then some people would cheat!

posted 07-06-99 12:41 AM ET            

[IMO - even sending the old file to you shouldn't be a cheat - in a current game, I am the Planetary Governor, and it takes me 30-45 or more minutes to view and write out all the intel data, then put it into an email to my pactmates.

You are not allowing the other player to play or reload the current turn for you, you are
simply giving the other player (by viewing and OLD file only access to data which you
have every right to share, and doing it in a way which is a hell of a lot less inconvenient.

It is a strategic goal in the game to get infiltrator data, and the means for sharing this info should not even qualify as an issue.

NO CHEAT, NO ISSUE

It would be a cheat to allow another player to play both your turns to accomplish some
specific result - such as a coordinated arms attack, but view old files to simplify the
communication of infiltrator data between pact brothers is totally acceptable to me.]

I can clearly see that nothing is going to be resolved between the four players in this game. I suppose that this sort of thing is inevitable from time to time.

My conclusion is simply this:

Never play in a non-moderated game. That way no individual or group can end the game just because they don't like the way things are going. Passwords must be held by an outside party.

Discuss and adopt rules before the game starts. Be sure the moderator is capable of applying sound procedures should a conflict arise, because conflicts will occur.

posted 07-06-99 06:28 AM ET            

This is a delicate matter, something you could answer for sure in a way without thinking, but then when you actually start tinking to it, you find yourself on a slippery slope, with no tiny reasonable motive to grasp at all to hold you up.

So, symen, you're that sure of your opinions, good for you.
But since you called for it:

No, it's NOT cheating.

I understand it could be considered like a taboo, that is, something everybody say it's prohibited, but none can explain why.

At least jimmitrick supported his position with some logical reasoning.

Really, if you can go beyond the first impression, if you deem that action as cheating, then
ANY TALKING ABOUT THE GAME OUT OF THE GAME SHOULD BE CONSIDERED CHEATING.

If you agree that after having made contact any mean of communication is allowed, then a savefile is just the easiest of them.
Isn't it legal if you want to describe by e-mail your map, your production, your actions, what you see of other players, to an ally of yours?
And then you could take frame pictures of the sreen and send them: just visual instead of verbal.
If you go on that way, even the current turn, after you sent it, should be a legal mean of communication.

The thing that makes me very uneasy, is letting another player to know your password.

No way back, if you then break the treaty. and what if the player plays before you?

Cheating means mainly reloading the turn if you don't like the odds or the outcome, and taking advantage of flaws and bugs in the game, performing actions that weren't intende to be allowed according to commonly understood rules.
Should there be any doubt, you should agree on that before playing.

Now, in normal play the diplomacy doesn't allow to see what another player knows, except his map if you get it somehow.
But then (leaving out infiltration you gain as governor or with empath guild) noramlly AIs do not write and describe you verbally their position.

Nevertheless, my position is not carved in stone like your, symen.
I understand this goes again the common (thoughtless) feeling, and that players could agree against that.
But looking it from a purely theoretical point of view, I can see no reason to call it cheating: or you allow any extra mean of communication (after contact or from the start, this is NOT the issue here), either you allow exclusively in-game crappy UI diplomacy ONLY.

I wait for you to explain which undue advantage could a player get, that he couldn't get other ways sticking to the agreed rules of the challenge (that is, exchanging via mail informations detailed at will).

posted 07-06-99 06:53 AM ET            

Alex, here I might doubt you're the same Alex, maybe just similar UserIDs.

The impression I get from your last statements, make me feel a little uncomfortable in having you as a referee in a strategy game I'm playing in:
"Oh well, its time to find some mature age players....
You are just a bunch of whingers. Oh, no base trading! oh no this no that... crybabies.
But hey, lets not start a flame war here...cause I am sure that even then some people would cheat!"

Maybe, let me think.... mobsters are the ideal you depict there as mature persons.
All that crap about laws and legality! Let's make us our own rules, and if someone does you wrong, show him who has the guts!
These are very true real mature men, not whingers (?) or crybabies, definitely...

I hope that's just your Mr.Hyde side, and that in The Archives only Dr.Jekill will show, to whom I'll be keeping making my compliments for the great job he's doing.

posted 07-06-99 07:40 AM ET            

The only time I would voice my opinion on The Archives would be when asked for it.

My outburst re "mature age players" was a primitive emotional reaction designed to piss everybody off more than contribute anything meaningfull.

I just got tierd with all the crap about unwritten rules. The fault really lies with Firaxis for (unintentionally)programming all those loopholes into the game. Lets hope version 4 will tighten the game a bit.

I still believe in PBEM SMAC but will have to take a brake from it for a while.

posted 07-06-99 08:26 AM ET            

(BTW, I find it odd that everyone in THC hadn't already infiltrated everyone else at this point in the game. If that were the case, there wouldn't be any reason to send a save file).

posted 07-06-99 09:11 AM ET         

SO I will just say. Sorry for calling umbra a cheat.

I am taking a break from PBEM's for awhile now.

Y'all come back now.....y'hear

posted 07-06-99 09:37 AM ET            

And OK Alex, you know, I more often than I'd like indulge in the same your attitude I was whining about. Just try to piss off someone to wake him up, but not really meaning, just showing how rude I COULD be. I realized (with awe) in years that I belong to that category of dumbasses that reacts and feels differently when he wears a tie or when he doesn't!

Remember tho that in Archives you are a "referee" too, so you'll be called to express your decisions with thoughtfulness and authority.

posted 08-03-99 12:45 AM ET            

This was a cool game for awhile. Brother Umbra and I scared Alex Depol so bad he quit without firing a shot. Ran home with his football so to speak.

Wouldn't even shake hands like a man at the end.

I hate to see someone so thoroughly shattered, but, then again, if you want to play with the big boys.........

symen, BTW, was a stand up guy who fell into bad company.

Alex, why don't you come over to ACOL CITY and visit? We have passes for wussies!

posted 08-03-99 08:36 AM ET            

I dont really wish to get involved in some stupid flame war with u. People are people so just let it be my fellow human.

posted 08-03-99 10:10 AM ET         

btw what the heck are you , some sort of walking talking ACOL advertisement or something?

I dont think this should go any further, if you have any issues then you should have brought them up before and not make these sort of lame ass comments this far down the track.