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Author Topic:   Problems with current chronicles

BKK the Mentat posted 05-02-99 08:58 PM ET
I've noticed that in the last few Chronicles, nonehave particularly seemed to "take off" as some the earlier, pre crash Chronicls such as the ORIGINAL AFC or the CoFH did. I belive that there is a simple reason, and a simple solution to this. The problem(s):Ever since the actual game has been realsed, chronicalers have seemed to have the sudden urge to give in to technicalities such as the game's delay in interfactional contact and slowing the rate of reaserch, I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but even on an alien world with widely seperated(or not) factions, IT WOULD NOT TAKE 40-80 YEARS FOR ALL OF THE FACTIONS TO CONTACT EACH OTHER, nor would it take 20 years to build a moderate Industrial Base, some of you have taken the limitations of the game WAY too seriosly, such as the before mentioned dates of fist contact(most factions should be in contact with each other by M.Y. 2110-2120 in REALISTIC terms), and taking the EXACT tech advances inthier EXACT form and order according to the game, henceforth unnecicarily forcing yourselves to seperate into small time increments every 20-40 years leving HUGE voids in the story.
Take some elements of the game seriosly, but it is a game, a representation of the story, so stop playing exclusively by the rules, add in tech of your own here and there,make your scheduled for faction contact shorter, as well as tech and indutrial development, if nothing else, for the storie's sake.
Also go in moderate time increments rangin from a few weeks to months or a little more to smoothen the flow of time and eliminate the need for the gaps between the "M.Y. 2110-2120-2140-2180,ect., but making it in installments of chapters that covers the time in between, but still reaches the desired point in time if you keep it going WITHOUT having to make the abrupt changes of 20+ years with nothing inbetween. ALL I ASK IS THAT SOME OF YOU TRY MY SUGGESTION TO COVER THE EXCLUDED TIME PERIODS.
BKK the Mentat posted 05-02-99 09:09 PM ET
I hate to say this, but the only eay to do this would be to restart the CPUB with the same charictars(which can be done since it was necciary twice before, and since the current thread seems to be "shallowing out", running out of twists and options without having to invint a pick me up such as a war or an exteme change in one of the factions.)
For advice on how to maintain the style and feel of what I was talking about refer to YYYH, Irman Siddiqi for advice,and visit [/html]http://home.earthlink.net/~outlyr/factions/base.html[html], the SMAC Factions Base.
Octopus posted 05-03-99 12:41 AM ET
BKK, sorry to burst your bubble, but the "jumps" in time are better for the story. The way the CPUB is going -- where the rate of time passing is dictated by the way that the writers want -- is far better from a dramatic perspective. Do you criticize George Lucas for not showing you the action between the Battle of Yavin and the founding of the Rebel base on Hoth? I don't think anybody wants to write about years and years of "woke up, went to work, ate lunch, etc., etc., etc., ad infinitum. The CPUB went in jumps because we all realized that writing from Planetfall was going to be lame and because I wanted a few "in between" posts in order to do some character establishment. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but nobody's forcing you to read it. I write in a chronicle because I enjoy it. If somebody else derives enjoyment from it, that's good too, but your opinions don't matter at all to me when compared to my own interpretation and my own vision for storylines.
As to the CPUB being dead, or devoid of twists and turns, you are obviously not reading the same chronicle I am. There is plenty of dramatic opportunity, and the ability of the characters to work through and defuse the diplomatic tensions is fertile ground for interesting stories.
Technocrat posted 05-03-99 04:55 PM ET
I want to disagree with you, BKK the Mentat, as well. I think that suggesting it would take 40-80 years for all the factions to contact eachother is a bit optimistic, as there are only seven factions that start out with only a few thousand people each. The only way for the factions to contact eachother (discounting the possibility of a SETI like project, which would be unrealistic given the fact that there would undoubtedly be more pressing industrial concerns) would be a face-to-face contact or the recovering of a Unity pod. The chances of contacting other factions face-to-face would be astronomical, given the gigantic area a planet's surface consists of and the low population levels, and given the fact that the factions are struggling to survive and establish themselves rather than to explore. These chances are lessened when you take into consideration the hostile nature of the mindworms, the travel-hampering nature of the fungus, the fact that maintaining aircraft is untenable (early on), the fact that most vehicles would (realistically) be required more for industrial transportation and construction rather than exploration, etc. As for the idea that it should only take around 20 years to build an industrial base, well, frankly, that is extraordinarily unrealistic. Even if you discount the fungus, the mindworms, and the (relative) mineral scarcity of Chiron, it is still surprising to me that you would think that it would take only twenty years to build a moderate sized industrial base, especially considering the fact that the factions have to start from scratch and the fact that humans cannot breath the atmosphere. Look at the real world, where it is taking far longer than that to bring the third world nations into industialization, and that is with outside help AND it is without the hindrances of having no previous infastructure, unbreathable air, anti-human worms, lack of a transportation network (so vital to industrialized success), miniscule populations, and no clue as to where resources are located. The poor seven factions that land on Chiron have all of these hindrances, and they have to build without outside aid to help them.
I also must disagree with your criticism relating to technological progress in most areas. With the exception of the development of artificial intelligence (which I think is far too late in the game) and a few other areas, I think that SMAC has a pretty fair assessment of the speed of tech development. I think that it is realistic to say that a controlled singularity will not be feasible until the late 2300s or early 2400s; this also holds true for other technologies such as controlled gravity, etc. What technologies do you think are placed too late in terms of their development?
Technocrat
SnowFire posted 05-04-99 03:42 PM ET
Yeah, BKK, you would have loved to have seen some of the older threads that speculated on technology advancement. We figured that we would be stuck using repeating rifles and similiar things early in the game. Again, the game, if anything, gives you a "bonus" in your early development that might not be warranted, "realistically." Because, after you offload all your initial supplies, you have to build all those new factories, computers, power lines, telephones, office suites, etc., from SCRATCH. And with only a few high-precision instruments around, the kind of high-quality, futuristic stuff will be a long time coming. Of course, I can see everyone having a TV set 30 years in, and the early limitations of the Unity equipment beaten in 30 years as well, but otherwise it's still going to be a slow slog.
I will however agree that friendly factions contacting each other should be easier. I mean, set up a radio beacon, and broadcast at all frequencies your message. Of course, hostile facs might not respond, but I agree it could be faster. But not _that_ much faster.
"Technological advance is an inherently iterative process. One does not simply take sand from the beach and produce a Dataprobe.
We use crude tools to fashion better tools, and then our better tools to fashion more precise tools, and so on. Each minor refinement is a step in the process, and all of the steps must be taken."
-- Chairman Sheng-ji Yang,
"Looking God in the Eye"
evil_conquerer posted 05-09-99 11:42 AM ET
Even setting up a radio beacon is harder than it seems. It has to have enough strength to reach everybody, and that's assuming that Chiron has an atmosphere conductive to radio transmissions in the first place (It has to have the correct kind of ionosphere to bounce signals off of). They might have even lost that technology, although I doubt it is likely. They also have to get the materials for the beacon, which might be required for other, more immediate purposes. In addition, the other factions have to have a reciever tuned to the correct frequency, assuming they have recievers at all...
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Author	Topic: Problems with current chronicles
BKK the Mentat	posted 05-02-99 08:58 PM ET I've noticed that in the last few Chronicles, nonehave particularly seemed to "take off" as some the earlier, pre crash Chronicls such as the ORIGINAL AFC or the CoFH did. I belive that there is a simple reason, and a simple solution to this. The problem(s):Ever since the actual game has been realsed, chronicalers have seemed to have the sudden urge to give in to technicalities such as the game's delay in interfactional contact and slowing the rate of reaserch, I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but even on an alien world with widely seperated(or not) factions, IT WOULD NOT TAKE 40-80 YEARS FOR ALL OF THE FACTIONS TO CONTACT EACH OTHER, nor would it take 20 years to build a moderate Industrial Base, some of you have taken the limitations of the game WAY too seriosly, such as the before mentioned dates of fist contact(most factions should be in contact with each other by M.Y. 2110-2120 in REALISTIC terms), and taking the EXACT tech advances inthier EXACT form and order according to the game, henceforth unnecicarily forcing yourselves to seperate into small time increments every 20-40 years leving HUGE voids in the story. Take some elements of the game seriosly, but it is a game, a representation of the story, so stop playing exclusively by the rules, add in tech of your own here and there,make your scheduled for faction contact shorter, as well as tech and indutrial development, if nothing else, for the storie's sake. Also go in moderate time increments rangin from a few weeks to months or a little more to smoothen the flow of time and eliminate the need for the gaps between the "M.Y. 2110-2120-2140-2180,ect., but making it in installments of chapters that covers the time in between, but still reaches the desired point in time if you keep it going WITHOUT having to make the abrupt changes of 20+ years with nothing inbetween. ALL I ASK IS THAT SOME OF YOU TRY MY SUGGESTION TO COVER THE EXCLUDED TIME PERIODS.
BKK the Mentat	posted 05-02-99 09:09 PM ET I hate to say this, but the only eay to do this would be to restart the CPUB with the same charictars(which can be done since it was necciary twice before, and since the current thread seems to be "shallowing out", running out of twists and options without having to invint a pick me up such as a war or an exteme change in one of the factions.) For advice on how to maintain the style and feel of what I was talking about refer to YYYH, Irman Siddiqi for advice,and visit [/html]http://home.earthlink.net/~outlyr/factions/base.html[html], the SMAC Factions Base.
Octopus	posted 05-03-99 12:41 AM ET BKK, sorry to burst your bubble, but the "jumps" in time are better for the story. The way the CPUB is going -- where the rate of time passing is dictated by the way that the writers want -- is far better from a dramatic perspective. Do you criticize George Lucas for not showing you the action between the Battle of Yavin and the founding of the Rebel base on Hoth? I don't think anybody wants to write about years and years of "woke up, went to work, ate lunch, etc., etc., etc., ad infinitum. The CPUB went in jumps because we all realized that writing from Planetfall was going to be lame and because I wanted a few "in between" posts in order to do some character establishment. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but nobody's forcing you to read it. I write in a chronicle because I enjoy it. If somebody else derives enjoyment from it, that's good too, but your opinions don't matter at all to me when compared to my own interpretation and my own vision for storylines. As to the CPUB being dead, or devoid of twists and turns, you are obviously not reading the same chronicle I am. There is plenty of dramatic opportunity, and the ability of the characters to work through and defuse the diplomatic tensions is fertile ground for interesting stories.
Technocrat	posted 05-03-99 04:55 PM ET I want to disagree with you, BKK the Mentat, as well. I think that suggesting it would take 40-80 years for all the factions to contact eachother is a bit optimistic, as there are only seven factions that start out with only a few thousand people each. The only way for the factions to contact eachother (discounting the possibility of a SETI like project, which would be unrealistic given the fact that there would undoubtedly be more pressing industrial concerns) would be a face-to-face contact or the recovering of a Unity pod. The chances of contacting other factions face-to-face would be astronomical, given the gigantic area a planet's surface consists of and the low population levels, and given the fact that the factions are struggling to survive and establish themselves rather than to explore. These chances are lessened when you take into consideration the hostile nature of the mindworms, the travel-hampering nature of the fungus, the fact that maintaining aircraft is untenable (early on), the fact that most vehicles would (realistically) be required more for industrial transportation and construction rather than exploration, etc. As for the idea that it should only take around 20 years to build an industrial base, well, frankly, that is extraordinarily unrealistic. Even if you discount the fungus, the mindworms, and the (relative) mineral scarcity of Chiron, it is still surprising to me that you would think that it would take only twenty years to build a moderate sized industrial base, especially considering the fact that the factions have to start from scratch and the fact that humans cannot breath the atmosphere. Look at the real world, where it is taking far longer than that to bring the third world nations into industialization, and that is with outside help AND it is without the hindrances of having no previous infastructure, unbreathable air, anti-human worms, lack of a transportation network (so vital to industrialized success), miniscule populations, and no clue as to where resources are located. The poor seven factions that land on Chiron have all of these hindrances, and they have to build without outside aid to help them. I also must disagree with your criticism relating to technological progress in most areas. With the exception of the development of artificial intelligence (which I think is far too late in the game) and a few other areas, I think that SMAC has a pretty fair assessment of the speed of tech development. I think that it is realistic to say that a controlled singularity will not be feasible until the late 2300s or early 2400s; this also holds true for other technologies such as controlled gravity, etc. What technologies do you think are placed too late in terms of their development? Technocrat
SnowFire	posted 05-04-99 03:42 PM ET Yeah, BKK, you would have loved to have seen some of the older threads that speculated on technology advancement. We figured that we would be stuck using repeating rifles and similiar things early in the game. Again, the game, if anything, gives you a "bonus" in your early development that might not be warranted, "realistically." Because, after you offload all your initial supplies, you have to build all those new factories, computers, power lines, telephones, office suites, etc., from SCRATCH. And with only a few high-precision instruments around, the kind of high-quality, futuristic stuff will be a long time coming. Of course, I can see everyone having a TV set 30 years in, and the early limitations of the Unity equipment beaten in 30 years as well, but otherwise it's still going to be a slow slog. I will however agree that friendly factions contacting each other should be easier. I mean, set up a radio beacon, and broadcast at all frequencies your message. Of course, hostile facs might not respond, but I agree it could be faster. But not _that_ much faster. "Technological advance is an inherently iterative process. One does not simply take sand from the beach and produce a Dataprobe. We use crude tools to fashion better tools, and then our better tools to fashion more precise tools, and so on. Each minor refinement is a step in the process, and all of the steps must be taken." -- Chairman Sheng-ji Yang, "Looking God in the Eye"
evil_conquerer	posted 05-09-99 11:42 AM ET Even setting up a radio beacon is harder than it seems. It has to have enough strength to reach everybody, and that's assuming that Chiron has an atmosphere conductive to radio transmissions in the first place (It has to have the correct kind of ionosphere to bounce signals off of). They might have even lost that technology, although I doubt it is likely. They also have to get the materials for the beacon, which might be required for other, more immediate purposes. In addition, the other factions have to have a reciever tuned to the correct frequency, assuming they have recievers at all...