Will the CPUB rise, phoenixlike, from the ashes?

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Author Topic:   Will the CPUB rise, phoenixlike, from the ashes?

Octopus posted 03-25-99 09:50 PM ET
As should be obvious, I have returned to the forums. I have some amount of interest in writing a new story featuring my Zale character from the CPUB. With each passing day that desire grow less and less. However, I was thinking of starting three threads:
CPUB + 10: events 10 years after planetfall.
CPUB + 40: events 40 years after planetfall.
CPUB + 80: events 80 years after planetfall.
The first two were going to be backstory for the third, to account for how and why my character would be changing a bit (at least changing jobs). I had intended to use some of the other CPUB characters (Alasair Lagrand, in particular) in this little thing. (I actually haven't really figured out part 3, I just have a rough idea about what backstory I want). If nobody else is interested, I may or may not do this. With each passing day my urge to write is waning.
If you are, were, or wish to be a member of the CPUB (Chronicles of Pre-Unity and Beyond), please respond with your thoughts. Post Immediately. Time is running out. Offer expires while you wait .

Giant Squid posted 03-26-99 12:51 AM ET
Count me in, and check the thread 'A question' below. And I say we forum users should make a lawsuit against Firaxis. forums are too addicting, and the Surgeon General doesn't seem to be doing anything about it. Did think you could stay away. Welcome back!
Giant Squid
<=O=E
"Eternity lies ahead of us, and behind. Have you drunk your fill?"
MikeH II posted 03-26-99 06:05 AM ET
I'll join in but I might not post very often. Do you think one thread would be enough? Three might get confusing.
jsorense posted 03-26-99 12:09 PM ET
Octopus,
Welcome back. I can't wait to see your new adventures.
My suggestion concerning CPUB+10, 40, 80 would be to date code each post. That way you could keep all the story lines under one thread. I agree with MikeH that multiple theads become confusing. Take a look at the Factions forum. I don't have a clue what's going on there.
Octopus posted 03-26-99 12:11 PM ET
One of the things that put the old CPUB into its present state was the confusion over what time it was. Two threads might be enough (one for "current events", one for backstory), but I thought others might like to do contemporaneous backstory. I don't know what the right answer is, but I think having one thread with multiple timeframes is a bad idea.
SnowFire posted 03-26-99 07:13 PM ET
My intentions were to write a summary of the entire CPUB so far and go on a campaign to get newbies to join up. I agree, however, with jsorense that multiple threads would get confusing. Instead, we do the CPUB+80 years in flashback- we each write up looong starting posts that have events of the present (2180) with mentions of events of the past (Cabbage looked at Rutabaga with a look of cold hate across the negotiation table. He had not forgotten the great parsley-sprouts war of 2140-2160 in which has brother had met his grisly end. The circumstances were something like... blah blah blah. As the story moves on, the flashback of the war goes on farther and farther, until in a post 10 days later the scene where Cabbage held his dying brother Asparagus in his arms and had him to swear to kill off the remaining Sprouts. Needless to say, Cabbage now opposes the possible Pact being discussed between the two factions). We post 'em, and see if we can get other people to join up.
I still stand by my idea that there should be the first Planetary Council sometime either at the begining of or soon in the +80 years thread.
Octopus posted 03-26-99 10:01 PM ET
Well, I will bow to the tyranny of the majority if you really are all against me, but I hate writing in flashbacks, and I think it interrupts the flow of the chronicles. We already have evidence that a non-time constrained chronicle is intensely confusing -- just read over some of the later entries in the CPUB. Nobody knew when we arrived at the planet, and several people were put in awkward situations because others moved ahead to different times when they weren't ready for it. If we set the precedent that extensive flashbacks are okay, I think we run the risk of having too many of them. Also, if a chronicle post becomes too long, it becomes difficult to read (and I should know, since I invariably write posts which are too long ). Properly setting the stage for a flashback can be a tricky business if the writer doesn't want it to end up sounding hokey.
I also adamantly oppose any institution of a "new" calendar system (I could never follow the AFC calendar -- I have enough trouble keeping track of the activities in my own life without learning about a completely fictional calendar). I would be strongly opposed to using a traditional calendar (e.g. jan, feb, march, etc.). I greatly prefer the system we were using -- where time sequence was generally understood from context.
SnowFire posted 03-26-99 11:13 PM ET
Octopus: I absolutely agree about the last days, they were kinda weird as people were rushing forward and backward. I prefer not to overuse flashbacks as well, but I think it's a "lesser of the two evils" kind of thing, since if we have three seperate timelines running at the same time, we have our hands seriously tied in the earlier ones (the events have to come out and make sense for the later ones) and would be fascinating when reading a book after being polished, but without being able to really go back and edit, chances are the story would become a bizarre mess. Kinda like what the final days of the CPUB were like. I agree that if flashbacks become an accepted tool of catching up, the result is a bizarre mess. I just think that 3 threads will result in a worse mess.
And if I did use flashbacks, I would use them almost entirely at the beginning of the story- a post to explain the events of the preceding years so we know where we are when things start going bad*, a prologue. After that, I personally would kill the flashbacks.
Let's hope we don't fall into the RCFH trap of desperately needing action to fuel the storyline though- peace can be just as exciting as war.
On the calander: Here here.
Again, if you can think up a system that doesn't involve multiple threads and doesn't use flashbacks, I'm all ears. And if the "tyranny of the majority" sides with you, hey, I'll submit as well . Just looking for ideas here...
* And actually have it make sense, since everyone gets everyone's commlink at a Council and lots of stuff tends to happen afterwards, instead of the short period of time suddenly blossoming with everything and their mothers happening suddenly for no apperant reason.
Octopus posted 03-26-99 11:32 PM ET
Oh, I had no intention of CPUB+10 and CPUB+40 being running threads, if that's what people thought. They were going to be one-shot deals for me. I could also achieve what I wanted if we opened a new CPUB thread, and guaranteed ahead of time that the story timeline would change at a date certain (e.g. post all CPUB+10 posts by Sunday, 11:59 PM, Forum Time, because after that it is CPUB+40, or something). I thought the multiple threads would be somewhat easier to manage, since chronicle posting is somewhat asynchronous.
It is my firm hope that we can establish a "peaceful" world to write stories in (more like a cold war between the Hive and everyone else, to a greater or lesser degree, in my way of thinking). I think espionage, diplomacy, and sneakiness should be the emphasis. Any talk of troop movements and the like should be backstory to the factional muscle-flexing and bluffing. At least that's how I see it.
Octopus posted 03-26-99 11:51 PM ET
Lest anyone get confused by what I said about the cold war between the Hive and everyone else: the others are not necessarily allied, the Hive is just so security conscious and isolationist that they tend to keep everyone at a bit of distance (and most of the other factions are probably happy about that). I imagine that tensions will run high between all of the factions.
SnowFire posted 03-27-99 02:42 PM ET
Oh... okay. Sure, I have no problem with that, if no one else does...
MikeH II posted 03-29-99 04:17 AM ET
I think most of the confusion about time at the end of the last CPUB was my fault. Sorry. I think I posted a couple of times without reading the comments threads first.
I thought you meant the +10 and +40 threads would be open. If we are going to have a history one person should write it to keep it consistent and everyone should try and stick to it. Seem fair?
If we have any military engagements, I'd see them as small infiltration events (probe teams) and Mind Worm contacts. That kind of fits with the Cold war thing but I think we should spy on our allies as well. It might provoke a diplomatic incident but we (the Spartans) certainly don't trust any of you lot.
I think that The Shadow might return from the wilderness to rejoin the Spartans.
Octopus posted 03-29-99 10:49 AM ET
I wanted to write some historical background for my character specifically. I'm actually more interested in writing this than in writing the on-going story (at this point -- if it starts up again with the interaction like it used to be, then I'll get psyched up again). I've got no problem with someone writing the overall history, but I want to post some things about my character.
I would propose that all of the factions have had first contact on or before the CPUB+40 timeframe. I would say that there have probably been some espionage activities, and some limited diplomacy, but tensions between the factions are still very high, so nothing beyond the Non-Agression Pact (I haven't played the game for a while, I forget the SMAC word for it) at the time of the council meeting. The factions that are supposed to dislike each other (e.g. Hive/Spartans, Gaians/Morgans, Hive/Morgans, PKs/Spartans, etc.) really DO dislike each other. The first planetary council meeting will be called in the CPUB+80 timeframe (likely one of the earlier topics to be covered in the thread). People should develop issues that they want discussed at the council meeting, so that the other factions can formulate responses (e.g. whoever wants to call the meeting should put out an agenda).
Since we chroniclers have a horrible time debating without concrete proposals, here is mine:
All CPUB+10 material must be posted by 11:59 PM Forum Time on Sunday, April 4 (1 week from yesterday)
All CPUB+40 material must be posted by 11:59 PM Forum Time on sunday, April 11 (2 weeks from yesterday)
After that, all posts MUST occur in the CPUB+80 timeframe.
All posts will be posted in a single thread, plus a single "comments" thread. The story thread will have the agreed upon "rules" that governed the last chronicle, which should be findable somewhere in this forum. Nobody is forced to use any calendar system. No maps (this one's for you, GS ). If we agree on the "single person to write the history", that person will post in the "in between times" at the chronicle changeover points (the times will be amended to make this more realistic, if the person doesn't want to try to post at exactly midnight). Since very little history needs to be written before CPUB+10, I think these posts can proceed normally. However, since we have not yet agreed upon a political structure or whatever, I'd recommend keeping interaction to a minimum (my posts will mostly be "day in the life" flavored posts).
Since SnowFire has already volunteered to write the recap, it would seem that a nomination is in order for him to "carry this forward" and write the "history" as well. Other nominations are now in order, but this issue needs to be resolved in time for somebody to actually write the thing. Any nominee also has the right to decline (although he'll earn everlasting hatred, and possibly NATO airstrikes on his house ).
Comments, criticisms, etc. are welcomed. If somebody has a different/better proposal, now is the time to make it. Another difficulty that plagued the last chronicle was the "dead time" while we tried to figure out what was going on. Let's try to get our acts together.
MikeH: there is more than enough blame to go around for killing off the old Chronicle, don't single yourself out. We all have a measure of guilt.
Octopus posted 03-29-99 10:51 AM ET
MikeH: "That kind of fits with the Cold war thing but I think we should spy on our allies as well."
Well that's what I wanted to do, that's exactly why I used the "Cold War" imagery. Spies and the Cold War go together like [fill in your own example here of two things that go really well together, and sound like a really stupid cliche].
MikeH II posted 03-30-99 05:11 AM ET
Vodka and Red Bull?

I like all the suggestions so far. I'd quite like my character to be a bit mysterious when he arrives in the +80 thread so I might not post in the +10 and +40.
MikeH II posted 03-30-99 05:27 AM ET
The four generally accepted rules of writing:
1. No killing other posters characters (or Faction leaders).
2. No starting wars without the agreement of the other factions.
3. No significant alterations of Faction policy without the other faction posters agreement.
4. The Final and Greatest rule should be "when in doubt, ask in the comments thread."
If you try to keep that "feel" you'll get from reading the other posts, you'll probably do fine.
The rules, copied from SnowFire's thread.
SnowFire posted 03-30-99 07:00 PM ET
I'm honored. I'm not so sure about writing short summaries for what happens from year 10->40 or 40->80 without a lot of input from the writers, to make sure I'm not offending anyone; so I'm not so sure about that part of your idea Octopus. It might be better for each writer to write a short recap at the beginning of their piece. However, the main problem with that is that then you basically have each writer doing their own story. It usually works out better when you have another writer interacting with your faction as well, supplying fresh ideas and forcing you to change your best-laid plans a little. I for one loved competing against Imran in the RCFH for control of the Believers- they had a Thought Control Society in the year 20, just to stomp out my heretics! Ah, memories.
I'll be home on Easter break after a half-day of school tommorow, so I should be in good position to actually go back and start putting those ideas down on paper.
SnowFire posted 03-30-99 11:25 PM ET
Memo to self: I lied before in that other thread. I'm going for the record and doing yet another double post.
In any case, just so we all remember, we need to post something in the Factions forum once we kick this off, considering the fact they are doing the same thing that the CoFH did right now, and we might be able to skim a few good writers from them.
MikeH II posted 03-31-99 04:22 AM ET
Maybe but it's all a bit aggressive in there. We'd have to temper some of the exuberance.
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Author	Topic: Will the CPUB rise, phoenixlike, from the ashes?
Octopus	posted 03-25-99 09:50 PM ET As should be obvious, I have returned to the forums. I have some amount of interest in writing a new story featuring my Zale character from the CPUB. With each passing day that desire grow less and less. However, I was thinking of starting three threads: CPUB + 10: events 10 years after planetfall. CPUB + 40: events 40 years after planetfall. CPUB + 80: events 80 years after planetfall. The first two were going to be backstory for the third, to account for how and why my character would be changing a bit (at least changing jobs). I had intended to use some of the other CPUB characters (Alasair Lagrand, in particular) in this little thing. (I actually haven't really figured out part 3, I just have a rough idea about what backstory I want). If nobody else is interested, I may or may not do this. With each passing day my urge to write is waning. If you are, were, or wish to be a member of the CPUB (Chronicles of Pre-Unity and Beyond), please respond with your thoughts. Post Immediately. Time is running out. Offer expires while you wait .
Giant Squid	posted 03-26-99 12:51 AM ET Count me in, and check the thread 'A question' below. And I say we forum users should make a lawsuit against Firaxis. forums are too addicting, and the Surgeon General doesn't seem to be doing anything about it. Did think you could stay away. Welcome back! Giant Squid <=O=E "Eternity lies ahead of us, and behind. Have you drunk your fill?"
MikeH II	posted 03-26-99 06:05 AM ET I'll join in but I might not post very often. Do you think one thread would be enough? Three might get confusing.
jsorense	posted 03-26-99 12:09 PM ET Octopus, Welcome back. I can't wait to see your new adventures. My suggestion concerning CPUB+10, 40, 80 would be to date code each post. That way you could keep all the story lines under one thread. I agree with MikeH that multiple theads become confusing. Take a look at the Factions forum. I don't have a clue what's going on there.
Octopus	posted 03-26-99 12:11 PM ET One of the things that put the old CPUB into its present state was the confusion over what time it was. Two threads might be enough (one for "current events", one for backstory), but I thought others might like to do contemporaneous backstory. I don't know what the right answer is, but I think having one thread with multiple timeframes is a bad idea.
SnowFire	posted 03-26-99 07:13 PM ET My intentions were to write a summary of the entire CPUB so far and go on a campaign to get newbies to join up. I agree, however, with jsorense that multiple threads would get confusing. Instead, we do the CPUB+80 years in flashback- we each write up looong starting posts that have events of the present (2180) with mentions of events of the past (Cabbage looked at Rutabaga with a look of cold hate across the negotiation table. He had not forgotten the great parsley-sprouts war of 2140-2160 in which has brother had met his grisly end. The circumstances were something like... blah blah blah. As the story moves on, the flashback of the war goes on farther and farther, until in a post 10 days later the scene where Cabbage held his dying brother Asparagus in his arms and had him to swear to kill off the remaining Sprouts. Needless to say, Cabbage now opposes the possible Pact being discussed between the two factions). We post 'em, and see if we can get other people to join up. I still stand by my idea that there should be the first Planetary Council sometime either at the begining of or soon in the +80 years thread.
Octopus	posted 03-26-99 10:01 PM ET Well, I will bow to the tyranny of the majority if you really are all against me, but I hate writing in flashbacks, and I think it interrupts the flow of the chronicles. We already have evidence that a non-time constrained chronicle is intensely confusing -- just read over some of the later entries in the CPUB. Nobody knew when we arrived at the planet, and several people were put in awkward situations because others moved ahead to different times when they weren't ready for it. If we set the precedent that extensive flashbacks are okay, I think we run the risk of having too many of them. Also, if a chronicle post becomes too long, it becomes difficult to read (and I should know, since I invariably write posts which are too long ). Properly setting the stage for a flashback can be a tricky business if the writer doesn't want it to end up sounding hokey. I also adamantly oppose any institution of a "new" calendar system (I could never follow the AFC calendar -- I have enough trouble keeping track of the activities in my own life without learning about a completely fictional calendar). I would be strongly opposed to using a traditional calendar (e.g. jan, feb, march, etc.). I greatly prefer the system we were using -- where time sequence was generally understood from context.
SnowFire	posted 03-26-99 11:13 PM ET Octopus: I absolutely agree about the last days, they were kinda weird as people were rushing forward and backward. I prefer not to overuse flashbacks as well, but I think it's a "lesser of the two evils" kind of thing, since if we have three seperate timelines running at the same time, we have our hands seriously tied in the earlier ones (the events have to come out and make sense for the later ones) and would be fascinating when reading a book after being polished, but without being able to really go back and edit, chances are the story would become a bizarre mess. Kinda like what the final days of the CPUB were like. I agree that if flashbacks become an accepted tool of catching up, the result is a bizarre mess. I just think that 3 threads will result in a worse mess. And if I did use flashbacks, I would use them almost entirely at the beginning of the story- a post to explain the events of the preceding years so we know where we are when things start going bad, a prologue. After that, I personally would kill the flashbacks. Let's hope we don't fall into the RCFH trap of desperately needing action to fuel the storyline though- peace can be just as exciting as war. On the calander: Here here. Again, if you can think up a system that doesn't involve multiple threads and doesn't use flashbacks, I'm all ears. And if the "tyranny of the majority" sides with you, hey, I'll submit as well . Just looking for ideas here... And actually have it make sense, since everyone gets everyone's commlink at a Council and lots of stuff tends to happen afterwards, instead of the short period of time suddenly blossoming with everything and their mothers happening suddenly for no apperant reason.
Octopus	posted 03-26-99 11:32 PM ET Oh, I had no intention of CPUB+10 and CPUB+40 being running threads, if that's what people thought. They were going to be one-shot deals for me. I could also achieve what I wanted if we opened a new CPUB thread, and guaranteed ahead of time that the story timeline would change at a date certain (e.g. post all CPUB+10 posts by Sunday, 11:59 PM, Forum Time, because after that it is CPUB+40, or something). I thought the multiple threads would be somewhat easier to manage, since chronicle posting is somewhat asynchronous. It is my firm hope that we can establish a "peaceful" world to write stories in (more like a cold war between the Hive and everyone else, to a greater or lesser degree, in my way of thinking). I think espionage, diplomacy, and sneakiness should be the emphasis. Any talk of troop movements and the like should be backstory to the factional muscle-flexing and bluffing. At least that's how I see it.
Octopus	posted 03-26-99 11:51 PM ET Lest anyone get confused by what I said about the cold war between the Hive and everyone else: the others are not necessarily allied, the Hive is just so security conscious and isolationist that they tend to keep everyone at a bit of distance (and most of the other factions are probably happy about that). I imagine that tensions will run high between all of the factions.
SnowFire	posted 03-27-99 02:42 PM ET Oh... okay. Sure, I have no problem with that, if no one else does...
MikeH II	posted 03-29-99 04:17 AM ET I think most of the confusion about time at the end of the last CPUB was my fault. Sorry. I think I posted a couple of times without reading the comments threads first. I thought you meant the +10 and +40 threads would be open. If we are going to have a history one person should write it to keep it consistent and everyone should try and stick to it. Seem fair? If we have any military engagements, I'd see them as small infiltration events (probe teams) and Mind Worm contacts. That kind of fits with the Cold war thing but I think we should spy on our allies as well. It might provoke a diplomatic incident but we (the Spartans) certainly don't trust any of you lot. I think that The Shadow might return from the wilderness to rejoin the Spartans.
Octopus	posted 03-29-99 10:49 AM ET I wanted to write some historical background for my character specifically. I'm actually more interested in writing this than in writing the on-going story (at this point -- if it starts up again with the interaction like it used to be, then I'll get psyched up again). I've got no problem with someone writing the overall history, but I want to post some things about my character. I would propose that all of the factions have had first contact on or before the CPUB+40 timeframe. I would say that there have probably been some espionage activities, and some limited diplomacy, but tensions between the factions are still very high, so nothing beyond the Non-Agression Pact (I haven't played the game for a while, I forget the SMAC word for it) at the time of the council meeting. The factions that are supposed to dislike each other (e.g. Hive/Spartans, Gaians/Morgans, Hive/Morgans, PKs/Spartans, etc.) really DO dislike each other. The first planetary council meeting will be called in the CPUB+80 timeframe (likely one of the earlier topics to be covered in the thread). People should develop issues that they want discussed at the council meeting, so that the other factions can formulate responses (e.g. whoever wants to call the meeting should put out an agenda). Since we chroniclers have a horrible time debating without concrete proposals, here is mine: All CPUB+10 material must be posted by 11:59 PM Forum Time on Sunday, April 4 (1 week from yesterday) All CPUB+40 material must be posted by 11:59 PM Forum Time on sunday, April 11 (2 weeks from yesterday) After that, all posts MUST occur in the CPUB+80 timeframe. All posts will be posted in a single thread, plus a single "comments" thread. The story thread will have the agreed upon "rules" that governed the last chronicle, which should be findable somewhere in this forum. Nobody is forced to use any calendar system. No maps (this one's for you, GS ). If we agree on the "single person to write the history", that person will post in the "in between times" at the chronicle changeover points (the times will be amended to make this more realistic, if the person doesn't want to try to post at exactly midnight). Since very little history needs to be written before CPUB+10, I think these posts can proceed normally. However, since we have not yet agreed upon a political structure or whatever, I'd recommend keeping interaction to a minimum (my posts will mostly be "day in the life" flavored posts). Since SnowFire has already volunteered to write the recap, it would seem that a nomination is in order for him to "carry this forward" and write the "history" as well. Other nominations are now in order, but this issue needs to be resolved in time for somebody to actually write the thing. Any nominee also has the right to decline (although he'll earn everlasting hatred, and possibly NATO airstrikes on his house ). Comments, criticisms, etc. are welcomed. If somebody has a different/better proposal, now is the time to make it. Another difficulty that plagued the last chronicle was the "dead time" while we tried to figure out what was going on. Let's try to get our acts together. MikeH: there is more than enough blame to go around for killing off the old Chronicle, don't single yourself out. We all have a measure of guilt.
Octopus	posted 03-29-99 10:51 AM ET MikeH: "That kind of fits with the Cold war thing but I think we should spy on our allies as well." Well that's what I wanted to do, that's exactly why I used the "Cold War" imagery. Spies and the Cold War go together like [fill in your own example here of two things that go really well together, and sound like a really stupid cliche].
MikeH II	posted 03-30-99 05:11 AM ET Vodka and Red Bull? I like all the suggestions so far. I'd quite like my character to be a bit mysterious when he arrives in the +80 thread so I might not post in the +10 and +40.
MikeH II	posted 03-30-99 05:27 AM ET The four generally accepted rules of writing: 1. No killing other posters characters (or Faction leaders). 2. No starting wars without the agreement of the other factions. 3. No significant alterations of Faction policy without the other faction posters agreement. 4. The Final and Greatest rule should be "when in doubt, ask in the comments thread." If you try to keep that "feel" you'll get from reading the other posts, you'll probably do fine. The rules, copied from SnowFire's thread.
SnowFire	posted 03-30-99 07:00 PM ET I'm honored. I'm not so sure about writing short summaries for what happens from year 10->40 or 40->80 without a lot of input from the writers, to make sure I'm not offending anyone; so I'm not so sure about that part of your idea Octopus. It might be better for each writer to write a short recap at the beginning of their piece. However, the main problem with that is that then you basically have each writer doing their own story. It usually works out better when you have another writer interacting with your faction as well, supplying fresh ideas and forcing you to change your best-laid plans a little. I for one loved competing against Imran in the RCFH for control of the Believers- they had a Thought Control Society in the year 20, just to stomp out my heretics! Ah, memories. I'll be home on Easter break after a half-day of school tommorow, so I should be in good position to actually go back and start putting those ideas down on paper.
SnowFire	posted 03-30-99 11:25 PM ET Memo to self: I lied before in that other thread. I'm going for the record and doing yet another double post. In any case, just so we all remember, we need to post something in the Factions forum once we kick this off, considering the fact they are doing the same thing that the CoFH did right now, and we might be able to skim a few good writers from them.
MikeH II	posted 03-31-99 04:22 AM ET Maybe but it's all a bit aggressive in there. We'd have to temper some of the exuberance.