New Faction-- Genetically Enhanced Intellectuals

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Author Topic:   New Faction-- Genetically Enhanced Intellectuals

Smeagol posted 04-27-99 11:58 PM ET
I just thought this one up, was wondering if it's balanced:
Extra talent/ 4 citizens (genetic enhancements lead to talented individuals)
+2 efficiency (individuals always coming up with new and improved methods, leads to excellent efficiency)
-3 Police (Generally pacifists and the futility of war creates unrest-- they believe they are above the idea of war, societal inhibitions, and control)
-1 Support (Again, they are pacifists and thus don't in general create large armies; also, they have expensive tastes)
Commerce +1 (Always get the better end of the deal)
So is it balanced? Any other ideas? I was considering giving them free research hospitals or something to represent their advanced bio-engineering methods but I think this would make them way too powerful.
Smeagol posted 04-28-99 12:12 AM ET
Oh, and they can't use police state or thought control.
Smeagol posted 04-28-99 12:22 AM ET
Just how many SE choices can you prevent a faction from being able to use? They shouldn't be able to use power either.
JT 3 posted 04-28-99 04:34 PM ET
So, basicly, you're saying, if they go to war, they're dead?
President Korian posted 04-28-99 04:48 PM ET
I would done the police detriment.
JT 3 posted 04-28-99 04:51 PM ET
Okay, here are my changes:
Police to -1
CAN use thought control, just not Police State or Power
Free Net. Node at each base.
There. Maybe a tiny bit overpowered, maybe the Police should be -2 when I add in the Nodes, but you get the general idea.
Smeagol posted 04-28-99 05:48 PM ET
Ok, police is definitely at the highest -2, because I certainly don't believe that they should be allowed to nerve staple. I don't see why they would have network nodes, though. If anything, I would leave their police at -3, get rid of the commerce bonus, and give them research hospitals free. How does that sound? Seems overpowered to me, but I'm not sure.
Also, they can go to war, but this needs a different sort of strategy, and should not be considered early in the game. Just build a punishment sphere in one base and make your army there, or boost psych up to 20% and you can build lots of military units without drones really affecting you.
sarummaine posted 04-28-99 06:10 PM ET
Way, way too weak! They can't fight!
Smeagol posted 04-28-99 06:14 PM ET
Did you read the second paragraph I just wrote? They can fight, but different preparations have to be made.
JT 3 posted 04-28-99 06:19 PM ET
That's like saying Morgan can fight the whole game through.
Face it, you don't get the Spheres for a while. By the time I get them, I've met all the Factions(someone built the Guild), and usually Miriam and Yang are at war with me. I'd get crushed with this Faction.
JT 3 posted 04-28-99 06:23 PM ET
Plus, with no Police State/Power, you can't support more than one unit per base. That hurts. Period.
Smeagol posted 04-28-99 06:46 PM ET
Ok, but as long as this isn't overpowered, is it OK?
1 talent/ 4 citizens
+2 efficiency
-3 police
-1 support
Free Research Hospital at every base
NO Police or Power SE choices
Al Gore Rythm posted 04-28-99 10:55 PM ET
Research Hospital is WAY to powerful. That's +50% Research/Psych and one less drone to worry about. Plus they have the extra Talent.
Either Holo Theatre or a Net. Node. Not both.
Smeagol posted 04-28-99 11:03 PM ET
Yeah, I agree that research labs are too powerful (though they only give 25% psych boost, actually).
Now keep in mind that this is a society that focuses on enhancing the human mind through genetic engineering, so net nodes or holo theatres don't make any sense. How about bio labs? They don't have the greatest effect, but would help stimulate early research, which is obviously a necessity for this faction.
Pique posted 04-29-99 12:57 AM ET
My take:
One base with crawlers mining boreholes and a Punishment Sphere (you know the drill) and this 'weak' looking race becomes overpowered.
The talent offsets the anti-police stance, which is the only real drawback to this race while fighting a war (controlling conquered pop).
You may have some problems in the extreme early game if situated badly, but survive that...
Pique
korn469 posted 04-29-99 12:59 AM ET
Smeagol
hmm i've been looking over your faction and i have some thoughts...just limit them to one social engineering choice that they can't make
rule out either power or police state
next i have three questions for you
one is what is their starting tech?
two what is their agenda? what social engineering choice will they always make?
three how do you win with them?
ok here is what i understand them to be...
1/talent for every four pop
+2 efficency
-3 police
-1 support
free research hospital
no police/power
so here's what ya got
dem/FM/know
+2 econ
+5 effic
-3 support
0 morale
-8 police
+2 growth
-3 planet
-2 probe
0 industry
+2 research
dem/planned/know
0 econ
+3 effic
-3 support
0 morale
-3 police
+4 growth (+6 with childrens crech pop boom)
0 planet
-2 probe
+1 industry
+2 research
i could keep on going but i won't i'll also break this up into two posts
Smeagol posted 04-29-99 01:10 AM ET
Starting tech is, of course, biogenetics. Sorry I forgot to mention that. Also, I have changed the free research hospital to biology lab. For their agenda, nothing really fits them well but possibly eudaimonic. They strive to win by transcendence (this is their ultimate goal and the reason for their genetic engineering).
korn469 posted 04-29-99 01:22 AM ET
ok here's what i think...don't let them use police state but make power ok
if they are intellectuals make their genda be knowledge
leave their police at -3
give them a biology lab and maybe take away their talent to four people...
if they are dem/FM/power/thought control
that would give them +4 morale...that and a command center and your troops come out elite...support all your guys from one base
with a punishment sphere and make them have clean reactors and you have no problems fighting a war, and with the +2 econ and +4 effic they would be making lots of cash and getting lots of tech...so they can't fight but it would take some planning
dem/FM/know/cybernetic...
and even the university would have problems keeping up with their research because of the high research/economy/efficeny
especially with their extra talent it be alot easier to get these guys into a golden age than it would to get the university into one...and with the high efficency and the ability to use free market that would really help their rearch/energy reserves
Smeagol posted 04-29-99 01:23 AM ET
Pique-- You think they are overpowered? I think they are a bit weaker than the PKs, personally, though I also think the PKs are the best faction. Still, those penalties can be hard to manage and the bonuses for this faction aren't too overwhelming, are they?
I'm tired of having no desire to play anyone but the PKs, and I'm changing them as well to make them a bit weaker. I'll never play Morgan again, because those hab limits are ridiculous and I'd rather just use any other faction that benefits from free market. There isn't much difference between +2 and +3 or even +4 economy in this game, which is unfortunate. This new faction is Morgan's replacement.
korn469 posted 04-29-99 01:25 AM ET
early on they would have problems waging a war...but with the extra talents you could fight a defensive war ok...they wouldn't be good on offense though until they got a punishment sphere
Smeagol posted 04-29-99 01:26 AM ET
Well, the extra talent/ 4 citizens is something that I think mirrors well their genetic enhancements. And if I eliminated this, they would be worthless.
Pretty much everything you said is my basic strategy, by the way.
Smeagol posted 04-29-99 01:30 AM ET
Knowledge is a good choice for agenda, I agree.
korn469 posted 04-29-99 01:32 AM ET
personally i think they are better than the peace keepers because with the added effiecency they can expand more with fewer drone problems, and they would make more from free market...and if you think about it a -8 police is the exact same as a -5 police...i think they are ok early game a bit weak late game a bit strong...
korn469 posted 04-29-99 01:32 AM ET
what i meant was a bit weak early game and a bit stong late game
Smeagol posted 04-29-99 01:35 AM ET
I don't want any big advantages over the computer. Should I change the efficiency to +1? I want this faction to be as balanced as possible-- as I said, this is more about balancing the game. With them replacing Morgan and with alterations to the PKs (the worst and best factions, respectively, IMHO), the game will be more fun for me.
korn469 posted 04-29-99 01:56 AM ET
yeah cut thier effic down to plus one and if they seem to be a little weak give them +1 research
Smeagol posted 04-29-99 01:58 AM ET
Ok, thanks for the advice everyone. I don't think the +1 research will be necessary, but I'll see how the computer does with them.
korn469 posted 04-29-99 01:59 AM ET
and one question why do you think the peace keepers are the best? i think once you get impact weapons and nerve gas with yang the game is all over on a standard size map...
Smeagol posted 04-29-99 02:00 AM ET
Special thanks go to korn for his many posts.
korn469 posted 04-29-99 02:01 AM ET
hey check out my faction...the new and improved UED...
Smeagol posted 04-29-99 02:05 AM ET
I play on a huge map, and I win because I build tons of bases and stay out of war until I can actually fight. I like Yang for his early benefits, and he's just cool in general to play. Nerve gas rocks, I agree. I just hate not being able to use Free Market to get that +2 economy, because it really is easy to manage and when foresting it is a still an effective way to really boost energy output.
The PKs get 3 benefits that making NOT winning with them a difficult matter-- by 2250 I have enough votes to elect myself supreme leader in most cases. Then by 2275 I have about 25 bases each size 18-- producing amazing energy thanks to tree farms, hybrid forests, and free market economics. How could the computer possibly compete against this?
Smeagol posted 04-29-99 05:59 PM ET
Ok, there may be a few things still for me to touch up, but here it is:
;
; Sid Meier's ALPHA CENTAURI
;
; FACTION FILE: The Geneticists
;
; Made with ACEdit (c)1999 ANX at http://www.sidgames.com/acedit
;
; For use this Faction file select load from
; faction select in the game and write... morgan
;
#MORGAN
The Geneticists, Enhanced Intellectuals, Geneticists, M, 2, Morgan, M, -1, 0, 1, 0, 0,
TECH, Biogen, SOCIAL, +EFFIC, SOCIAL, -SUPPORT, SOCIAL, ---POLICE, FACILITY, 9, TALENT, 4
Values, Knowledge, TALENT
Politics, Police State, nil
Genetic, Genetic
Jeneba, Kai, The Jeneba Complex
Spokesman, superhuman, mutational, enhanced, lunatical,
Genetic Freaks
seek out a higher state of consciousness
to lead humanity in its transcendence above this crude state
mutating your minds to no end
mutating your minds to no end
degenerate our race to genetic freaks
thinking up new ways to turn yourselves into genetic mutants
thinking up new ways to turn yourselves into genetic mutants
plotting to mutate the entire human race on this planet
attempt at genetic enhancement, M1
genetic experiments, M2
biological "improvements", M1
research grant, M1
giving the geneticists the time and space they need to enlighten us further
the protectors of Genesis
standard genetic policy
#BASES
Genesis
Morgan Metaphysics
Watson Laboratories
DNA Factory
Morgan Biochemical
Crick Observatory
Pauling's Pursuit
Morgan Bioengineering
Morgan Gene Therapy
Recombination Labs
Morgan Unification
Morgan Dimensional Analysis
Dante's Disillusion
The Reality Foundation
Morgan Gene Mapping
Morgan Antimatter
Copenhagen's Interpretation
Morgan Quantum Logic
Morgan Neorealism
Morgan Superconsciousness
The Logic Factory
Morgan Quantum Measurements
Bell's Proof
The Threshold
The Mind of God
The Cosmic Network
Morgan Quantum Reality
#END
#WATERBASES
Morgan Hydrogenetics
Morgan Biosphere
Chaos Factory
Morgan Time Asymmetry
The Omega Point
#END
#BLURB
The transcendence of the human race is inevitable, and yet the
confines of our minds will forever inhibit a true understanding
of our universe. We must unlock the hidden powers of those
minds and only then can we find the ultimate enlightenment we
seek. We shall plant the foundation for our threshold to transcendence
on this planet, and we name that seed 'Genesis', the initiation
of the true human species.
^
^ -- Spokesman Nwabudike Morgan
^ "Essays on Trancendence"
#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Spokesman Nwabudike Morgan}
^BACKGROUND: {Founder of Advanced Genetics}
^AGENDA: {Knowledge, Talents}
^TECH: {Biogenetics}
^
#DATALINKS2
^Extra Talent for every 4 citizens: {Biogenetically Enhanced}
^-1 SUPPORT: {Followers have expensive tastes}
^-3 Police: {Followers believe war and societal inhibitions are beneath them}
^+1 Efficiency: {Enhanced followers constantly improve methods}
^{Free BIOLOGY LAB at every base}
^{May not use Police State Politics}
#FACTIONTRUCE
#xs 440
#caption $CAPTION7
"My geneticists tire of this futile struggle between our forces.
Let us pledge a truce so that our people can seek a higher
goal than this pitiful state of war."
"I concur. May our forces never clash again."
"Sorry, $NAME3, but the world could do without your genetic destruction, and I intend to be the executioner."
#FACTIONTREATY
#xs 440
#caption $CAPTION7
"Friend $NAME1, our people could benefit greatly from an agreement
of mutual coexistence. Let us sign a treaty of peace so that
we will never degrade ourselves with the folly of war."
"Of course. From this day forth may our mutual quest for transcendence begin."
"I will agree to no such treaty with you genetic freaks. Now begone. "

# ; This line must remain at end of file

All comments or suggestions welcome.
BusterMan posted 04-29-99 08:41 PM ET
Make Headquarters : Gattaca
If you've ever seen this movie you'll know what I'm talking about.
-Parker
Smeagol posted 04-29-99 09:42 PM ET
Never seen the movie, but if you would explain to me the significance of it there's a good chance I'll change the name. Thanks.
BusterMan posted 04-30-99 03:40 PM ET
Gattaca is a movie made I think in 1997 or early '98. It is set in a future where babies have been genetically altered to perfection. The babies who were not test-tubed are called in-valids. The story is that an in-valid borrows an identity from a valid who was crippled and fulfils his life-long ambition of becoming one of the space center's (Gattaca) elite astronauts.
-Parker
BusterMan posted 04-30-99 03:41 PM ET
One more thing:
web page-http://www.gattaca.com/
Smeagol posted 04-30-99 04:50 PM ET
Didn't that movie bomb? I don't want some cheesy flick giving my faction a bad name. Thanks anyway.
Was it any good? I didn't actually see it, so I really can't be the judge.
The idea for my faction, anyway, is that this is a new beginning for the human race (the beginning of what the human race was meant to be), so Genesis fits pretty well. I changed a few things-- I wasn't sure exactly who said what in those treaty and truce quotes, so I fixed that.
I'd welcome further suggestions.
BusterMan posted 04-30-99 05:08 PM ET
Why does it matter if it bombed? It was still a kickass movie.
-Parker
Smeagol posted 04-30-99 05:40 PM ET
I just can't personally relate to it. Maybe if see it someday I'll change the name, though.
BusterMan posted 05-04-99 04:08 PM ET
When I d/l it I'll change the name.
Lo_11 posted 07-29-99 11:46 AM ET
Back to the top...
Zakharov_54 posted 07-29-99 02:38 PM ET
Your faction really cool. Have you heard that Firaxis is putting out an expansion pack for SMAC? Its going to be called "Alien Cross- fire". Anyway, I think that you should submit your faction to them. If you go to the SMAC web site and check out the new factions, you'll find that most of the slots are "COMING SOON". I think that really means that they haven't figured what else to put in there yet. BTW. Do you have any artwork for this faction, or are you going to use Morgan's artwork? I'll help you test it out.
Smeagol posted 07-30-99 12:39 AM ET
Wow, haven't seen this one in quite a long time.
Zak-- Thanks for the comments. I think the "coming soon" over in the SMAC website just refers to the fact that they will be posting those factions soon-- I think they have already chosen their factions. I haven't the slightest clue how to mess with the artwork, so yes I did use Morgan's artwork, but it works well, especially Morgan because he looks quite the intellectual. Anyway I would appreciate comments on how this faction plays as I haven't used it much. Here is the latest version (I changed a few of the comments made by other factions in response to treaty and truce offers):
;
; Sid Meier's ALPHA CENTAURI
;
; FACTION FILE: The Geneticists
;
; Made with ACEdit (c)1999 ANX at http://www.sidgames.com/acedit
;
; For use this Faction file select load from
; faction select in the game and write... morgan
;
#MORGAN
The Geneticists, Enhanced Intellectuals, Geneticists, M, 2, Morgan, M, -1, 0, 1, 0, 0,
TECH, Biogen, SOCIAL, +EFFIC, SOCIAL, -SUPPORT, SOCIAL, ---POLICE, FACILITY, 9, TALENT, 4
Values, Knowledge, TALENT
Politics, Police State, nil
Genetic, Genetic
Jeneba, Kai, The Jeneba Complex
Spokesman, superhuman, mutational, enhanced, lunatical,
Genetic Freaks
seek out a higher state of consciousness
to lead humanity in its transcendence above this crude state
mutating your minds to no end
mutating your minds to no end
degenerate our race to genetic freaks
thinking up new ways to turn yourselves into genetic mutants
thinking up new ways to turn yourselves into genetic mutants
plotting to mutate the entire human race on this planet
attempt at genetic enhancement, M1
genetic experiments, M2
biological "improvements", M1
research grant, M1
giving the geneticists the time and space they need to enlighten us further
the protectors of Genesis
standard genetic policy
#BASES
Genesis
Morgan Metaphysics
Watson Laboratories
DNA Factory
Morgan Biochemical
Crick Observatory
Pauling's Pursuit
Morgan Bioengineering
Morgan Gene Therapy
Recombination Labs
Morgan Unification
Morgan Dimensional Analysis
Dante's Disillusion
The Reality Foundation
Morgan Gene Mapping
Morgan Antimatter
Copenhagen's Interpretation
Morgan Quantum Logic
Morgan Neorealism
Morgan Superconsciousness
The Logic Factory
Morgan Quantum Measurements
Bell's Proof
The Threshold
The Mind of God
The Cosmic Network
Morgan Quantum Reality
#END
#WATERBASES
Morgan Hydrogenetics
Morgan Biosphere
Chaos Factory
Morgan Time Asymmetry
The Omega Point
#END
#BLURB
The transcendence of the human race is inevitable, and yet the
confines of our minds will forever inhibit a true understanding
of the universe. We must unlock the hidden powers of those
minds and only then can we find the ultimate enlightenment we
seek. We shall plant the foundation for our threshold to transcendence
on this planet, and we name that seed 'Genesis', the initiation
of the true human species.
^
^ -- Spokesman Nwabudike Morgan
^ "Essays on Trancendence"
#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Spokesman Nwabudike Morgan}
^BACKGROUND: {Founder of Advanced Genetics}
^AGENDA: {Knowledge, Talents}
^TECH: {Biogenetics}
^
#DATALINKS2
^Extra Talent for every 4 citizens: {Biogenetically Enhanced}
^-1 SUPPORT: {Followers have expensive tastes}
^-3 Police: {Followers believe war and societal inhibitions are beneath them}
^+1 Efficiency: {Enhanced followers constantly improve methods}
^{Free BIOLOGY LAB at every base}
^{May not use Police State Politics}
#FACTIONTRUCE
#xs 440
#caption $CAPTION7
"My geneticists tire of this futile struggle between our forces.
Let us pledge a truce so that our people can seek a higher goal
than this pitiful state of war."
"This war has worn on the nerves of our people as well. Truce it is. "
"Sorry, $NAME3, but the world could do without your genetic destruction, and I intend to be the executioner."
#FACTIONTREATY
#xs 440
#caption $CAPTION7
"Friend $NAME1, our people could benefit greatly from an agreement
of mutual coexistence. Let us sign a treaty of peace so that
we will never degrade ourselves with the folly of war."
"Of course. Peace is welcome with those who seek not to confront us. "
"I will agree to no such treaty with you genetic freaks. Now begone. "

# ; This line must remain at end of file
The Builder posted 07-30-99 12:35 PM ET

A stupid question
What does it mean to a faction if you set their SE goal to TALENT?
Up to the Sky!
The Builder
Smeagol posted 07-30-99 06:40 PM ET
I would imagine they do whatever it takes to turn workers into talents. I'm not sure how well it actually works, but it makes sense for the faction.
RSHER posted 08-06-99 11:39 AM ET
Smeagol - I would think that this faction should also be given +1 Industry. The populace would be encouraged to be as productive as possible to prove that their genetic material is worthy of being used to improve the race. I would say that they should get a +1 Knowledge for the same reason, but all of their best minds would probably be tied up in genetic research so this wouldn't show up. If neccesary, this could be offset by -1 Growth. They have rigid reproduction laws so that fewer undesired traits are passed on. This faction would strive for quality not quantity.
Just my two cents.
Rodney
Smeagol posted 08-07-99 02:07 PM ET
I don't think a +1 industry is in order-- they are focused much more on scientific endeavors (as this is the only path to transcendence). +1 knowledge makes sense, and I think it would be offset and then some by a -1 growth (because this disallows population booms with demo/planned/creches). -1 growth makes sense also because it seems to be natural for the faction, for reasons you mentioned.
Unfortunately I believe it is only possible to give a faction modifiers to 4 different social factors, so in order to do this I would have to get rid of the -1 support.
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