A picks system ala MOO2 for new factions?

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Author Topic:   A picks system ala MOO2 for new factions?

MasterSmiloid posted 04-20-99 11:48 AM ET
To keep all the new factions somewhat reasonably balanced I think a picks system might be in order. This is what I've found thus far:
Social modifiers: +1 = 3 picks -1 = -3 picks
+2 = 6 picks -2 = -6 picks
ECONOMY: +1 = 4 picks -1 = -3 picks
+2 = 8 picks -2 = -6 picks
Starting techs: lvl 1 tech: 1 pick ...
lvl 7 tech: 7 pick?
User selectable tech:
1+1 pick per tech
(i.e. 1 tech = 1 pick, 2 tech = 3 picks)
Facilities:
3+ 1 per lvl of facilty picks
This is really basic and most likely has flaws!! I made the economy mods as they are because that is a realy powerful pick.
Your input would be appreciated.
Ghost posted 04-20-99 02:14 PM ET

In MOO, you get 10 points to start with, free. What do you get here? It's more than 0, obviously... take Hive... +1 growth, +1 industry, -2 econ, free Perimeter Defense every base, ineffic immunity... but it isn't 10, either. Or Spartans... +1 Police, +2 Morale, -1 Industry, free prototypes (which is roughly equal to a free skunkworks in every base)... they are way overpowered under this system, but when they are looked at analytically most people say they are the weakest. Or Lal... look at all the cool stuff he gets, for a -1 effic.
Problem 1) One problem in SMAC which is not quite so evident in MOO is that SMAC SE scores are able to be changed, and thus you have to consider what they allow, not just have they are. For example...
I take +2 growth, and as starting techs I take those which allow Democracy and Planned.
Whatever penalties, don't matter... probably something like -1 morale and -1 econ, maybe slap in a kn/probe trade one way or the other. Instant pop booms. If I can control my burgeoning pop, I will quickly outproduce everyone.
Problem 2. not all base facilities are made equal to their costs / level. If you included a children's creche at every base, for example, you would get +2 efficiency and +2 growth at every single base, as well as a +1 minimum morale when defending the base. Under the system, the childrens creche would be a +5 cost (level 2 enhancement)... but it is worth a lot more than that to have one at every base. Or what about a free energy bank at every base? It would be pretty cheap in terms of the benefits you would receive.
Problem 3) I wrote a post a while back about New Faction Rules... it was ignored, but it says what I think. My theory was that you cannot say +1 equals this, then +2 = twice that... each number is separate. -1 econ, for example, is much less crippling than almost any other penalty... but -2 is REALLY bad. Probe bonuses and penalties are pretty potent because probe is so compressed... it has a total range of +3 to -2. It makes almost no sense to have a probe or Planet bonus of +2... you'll overshoot and waste a point if you take SE to exploit your strengths. You need to take into account every abilities bonus for every single number in its spread. If you are going to do this, you should be able to start out with +3 Probe or Planet, or even +4 econ if you are willing to take all the hits that such a choice would bring.
Problem 4) Picking higher level starting techs is no joke, either. Imagine starting with... I don't know... supply crawlers. Locusts of Chiron. Optimal government choices, as described above. Or something as simple as Impact Cannons. Take believers. Give them a -1 econ, which will shackle them with a whopping -1 energy at their headquarters. In return they grab the synthmetal and impact cannon advances, for a total of 3 points... and become unstoppable to a faction not similarly armed. They will pulverize anything near them at the start... a quick expansion made easier by their support bonuses, crank out a single Believing impact infantry unit, and they can cut through all opposition. What would their tech stagnation matter then?
I gots to go, but I think you get the point.
--Ghost
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Author	Topic: A picks system ala MOO2 for new factions?
MasterSmiloid	posted 04-20-99 11:48 AM ET To keep all the new factions somewhat reasonably balanced I think a picks system might be in order. This is what I've found thus far: Social modifiers: +1 = 3 picks -1 = -3 picks +2 = 6 picks -2 = -6 picks ECONOMY: +1 = 4 picks -1 = -3 picks +2 = 8 picks -2 = -6 picks Starting techs: lvl 1 tech: 1 pick ... lvl 7 tech: 7 pick? User selectable tech: 1+1 pick per tech (i.e. 1 tech = 1 pick, 2 tech = 3 picks) Facilities: 3+ 1 per lvl of facilty picks This is really basic and most likely has flaws!! I made the economy mods as they are because that is a realy powerful pick. Your input would be appreciated.
Ghost	posted 04-20-99 02:14 PM ET In MOO, you get 10 points to start with, free. What do you get here? It's more than 0, obviously... take Hive... +1 growth, +1 industry, -2 econ, free Perimeter Defense every base, ineffic immunity... but it isn't 10, either. Or Spartans... +1 Police, +2 Morale, -1 Industry, free prototypes (which is roughly equal to a free skunkworks in every base)... they are way overpowered under this system, but when they are looked at analytically most people say they are the weakest. Or Lal... look at all the cool stuff he gets, for a -1 effic. Problem 1) One problem in SMAC which is not quite so evident in MOO is that SMAC SE scores are able to be changed, and thus you have to consider what they allow, not just have they are. For example... I take +2 growth, and as starting techs I take those which allow Democracy and Planned. Whatever penalties, don't matter... probably something like -1 morale and -1 econ, maybe slap in a kn/probe trade one way or the other. Instant pop booms. If I can control my burgeoning pop, I will quickly outproduce everyone. Problem 2. not all base facilities are made equal to their costs / level. If you included a children's creche at every base, for example, you would get +2 efficiency and +2 growth at every single base, as well as a +1 minimum morale when defending the base. Under the system, the childrens creche would be a +5 cost (level 2 enhancement)... but it is worth a lot more than that to have one at every base. Or what about a free energy bank at every base? It would be pretty cheap in terms of the benefits you would receive. Problem 3) I wrote a post a while back about New Faction Rules... it was ignored, but it says what I think. My theory was that you cannot say +1 equals this, then +2 = twice that... each number is separate. -1 econ, for example, is much less crippling than almost any other penalty... but -2 is REALLY bad. Probe bonuses and penalties are pretty potent because probe is so compressed... it has a total range of +3 to -2. It makes almost no sense to have a probe or Planet bonus of +2... you'll overshoot and waste a point if you take SE to exploit your strengths. You need to take into account every abilities bonus for every single number in its spread. If you are going to do this, you should be able to start out with +3 Probe or Planet, or even +4 econ if you are willing to take all the hits that such a choice would bring. Problem 4) Picking higher level starting techs is no joke, either. Imagine starting with... I don't know... supply crawlers. Locusts of Chiron. Optimal government choices, as described above. Or something as simple as Impact Cannons. Take believers. Give them a -1 econ, which will shackle them with a whopping -1 energy at their headquarters. In return they grab the synthmetal and impact cannon advances, for a total of 3 points... and become unstoppable to a faction not similarly armed. They will pulverize anything near them at the start... a quick expansion made easier by their support bonuses, crank out a single Believing impact infantry unit, and they can cut through all opposition. What would their tech stagnation matter then? I gots to go, but I think you get the point. --Ghost