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Author Topic:   The Perfect War

ForcePacifist posted 09-16-99 08:41 AM ET
other then not including actual human beings with other plans for their lives, in my opinion comes thru following the following formula:
Objectives
on acheiving set objectives, the enemy must be begging you for peace, or at least at such a tactical/strategic disadvantage, any further attempts at aggresion is highly detremental to the enemy, but a convenient de-greening feild for your own forces.
Prepare
Long before hand, but not to long before hand, build up your army, tailor made to the job, and composed of all required elements, three waves is usually good enough.
first wave -shock troops, fast an mean,for takin without askin
second wave -hold&defend, to keep hold of your shinny new aquisitions
Third wave -redundancy measures, for 'just in case' and general support
Bearance
aka posture. you want your forces as close to the objectives as possible without startin the war early
the CIA
or the Corporation for Insidiouse Activities, or probe teams. Use them to isolate the enemy from friends & potential friends. they help to overcommit the enemy's forces, retard the enemys ability to develop technologicaly, and helps in the use of poverty as a weapon. ((*drop the dept*))
Start
declare war just as your first elements are about to storm the first objectives, allow the enemy as little time as possible to adjust their posture, bring to bearance or basically reenforce their you facing positions.
Finish
no more than three turns after you began. remember the position the enemy must be in as stated at the top of this slightly self important lecture of mine.
any objections, contributions-
please do.
the Armchair Machia-Tzu-Li
Beta1 posted 09-16-99 10:09 AM ET
You covered most things.
I would just add the importance of using airpower to disrupt the opponents supply lines (roads magtubes etc) and killing sensor nets.
Perhaps take and hold is over-rated - its better to not leave the enemy anything dangerous to hit back with than have to defend against a counterattack.
Getting the job done quickly is vital - in civ 2 I would try and take everything in one turn - in SMAC the same is true. Hitting multiple targets away from the front lines with drop troops/amphibious units can really disrupt even the best in-depth defence.
Beta-1
Velociryx posted 09-16-99 10:13 AM ET
Hiya Force! Sounds like a pretty good general plan to me, the only thing though, is that if you begin migrating elements of your army to the site of the battle "long before" you actually attack, you give yourself away, and your enemy will be ready and waiting for you. This could easily lead to an "arms race" situation, where you adjust the size of the army you need upward to meet the additional defenses your opponent is building, and that causes your opponent to build more troops, which causes you to adjust your numbers upward again.....and the attack stalls before it ever gets going, or turns into an attrition grind....UGH....
If I was going to run something like that (with a fairly large objective, ie, "sweep six enemy bases all the way up to a narrow choke point" or something like that), I'd probably begin my battle preparations by making noise in some other part of the enemy's empire to begin throwing his army off balance, and I'd not concentrate my troops in any one location, so as not to give away my true intent.
As preparations continued, I'd step up my level of probe activity, and do some sabre-rattling (perhaps even subverting a small base and dropping a fairly stout defense force off, again, somewhere fairly far from my true objective). Even if my opponent suspects I'm up to something else, this gives him two basically unattractive choices: He can either let me keep the little base, or he can hit it with sufficient force to take it back, but since it lies far from my true objective, if he does that, he's almost assured to take the base from me, but the price will be that many of his military assets will be "off-balance" and unable to provide immediate support when I strike toward my true objective.
Time-wise though, I'm with you. Long, drawn out seiges SUCK, and the quicker you can get that part over with and be the one occupying the best terrain and closest production centers, the better off you'll be....
-Just my ramblings....lol
-=Vel=-
laurens posted 09-16-99 10:51 AM ET
ForcePacifist -
Good account. And of course I'm sure you are using them against the failing AI.
Against real life opponents, I think to play unusually, adopting a different kind of strategy each time round, occasionally playing logically, then playing illogically, is the only way to win every single game. Just like playing chess.
Plato90s posted 09-16-99 11:00 AM ET
Good plan, in general, except you left out the logistics of the situation.
Besides your main combat units, every campaign should include a fair number of probe teams, formers, and the occasional supply crawler.
The probe teams are useful to protect the recently captured cities from enemy probes [if you don't have HSA] and to shield your own units. You may want to send them in for a bit of strategic sabotage as well.
The formers are needed to extend your road and magrail network into the recently conquered territory. With a magrail line, invasions become quick and easy.
In one game, I was getting ready to declare war on a Pact brother [Gaians] because I wanted the special projects. In preparation, I sent formers into Gaian territory and started building magrails, but I left breaks in strategic places so the Gaians can't use the magrails for instant movement inside their empire. When I invaded, I took a number of formers with me to immediately link up the breaks. Instant magrail network that allowed my invasion force to travel from the heart of my empire into the battle zone.
Finally, you want a couple of crawlers because captured bases are very drone-prone, and you may need crawlers to supplement the food supply while you get things under control.
ForcePacifist posted 09-16-99 12:08 PM ET
Laurens, ever read 'The Player of Games' by iain banks, you sound like the central character.if i could play smac in real time-id play against another person and indeed use the 'subtle art of chaos' method.
Plato90- damn fine suggestion, i hadnt thought of that, abit like an extended autobahn system. in general though, defending aquirered bases is very important in most of the games i play bcos i like to play pillage, once you commit -better not to lose any aquired bases, unless you enact a scorched earth retreat if/when things go wrong, or give the base over to a tech-weaker friendly just before you lose it. probably better to just keep hold of conquerd bases in pillage mode.
Beta1 posted 09-16-99 03:59 PM ET
Great book that - not as good as excession but still good.
Anyone remember that thread about ways to convince the opposition you were out of your mind / completely inept / stupid?
Beta-1
Currently onboard the GSV "Anticipation of a new lovers arrival"
Kimmitt posted 09-16-99 04:41 PM ET
I agree with most of the statements here, but I feel that these strategies, if followed, would be too slow. What levels of difficulty are you playing at?
That said, I think that the best way of looking at offense is "to deprive one's opponent of the opportunity to present a successful defense." Offense can, thus, come in the form of Probe Teams, overwhelming force, diplomatic pressure, or just enough units to squeeze your Scout Rover past the Perimeter Defense. The key is to retain as many options as possible while simultaneously taking away your opponent's options. To that end, I prefer to attack with a great deal of offensive units (attack rovers/hovers, Needlejets, helicoptors) and press relentlessly, rather than practice take-and-hold strategies which allow my opponent to prepare his own counterattacks.
This strategy is especially effective against people, as an early setback in a war can push your opponent into a bunker strategy, making you safe from counterattack (and your opponent more likely to offer goodies in order to avoid your wrath).
ForcePacifist posted 09-17-99 08:29 AM ET
Kimmitt the Hivean i believe.
havin talked about long range stratergy and planning wars while your opponents still think your their fwend, (so i like to anthropomorthasize the ai)of course its still inportant to have a standing Rapid Responce Military for power-projection purposes in an ever changing and dangerouse world.
Force Pacifist,
aka: Skaffen Amitskew
assualt class drone,
the Grey Area.
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Author	Topic: The Perfect War
ForcePacifist	posted 09-16-99 08:41 AM ET other then not including actual human beings with other plans for their lives, in my opinion comes thru following the following formula: Objectives on acheiving set objectives, the enemy must be begging you for peace, or at least at such a tactical/strategic disadvantage, any further attempts at aggresion is highly detremental to the enemy, but a convenient de-greening feild for your own forces. Prepare Long before hand, but not to long before hand, build up your army, tailor made to the job, and composed of all required elements, three waves is usually good enough. first wave -shock troops, fast an mean,for takin without askin second wave -hold&defend, to keep hold of your shinny new aquisitions Third wave -redundancy measures, for 'just in case' and general support Bearance aka posture. you want your forces as close to the objectives as possible without startin the war early the CIA or the Corporation for Insidiouse Activities, or probe teams. Use them to isolate the enemy from friends & potential friends. they help to overcommit the enemy's forces, retard the enemys ability to develop technologicaly, and helps in the use of poverty as a weapon. ((drop the dept)) Start declare war just as your first elements are about to storm the first objectives, allow the enemy as little time as possible to adjust their posture, bring to bearance or basically reenforce their you facing positions. Finish no more than three turns after you began. remember the position the enemy must be in as stated at the top of this slightly self important lecture of mine. any objections, contributions- please do. the Armchair Machia-Tzu-Li
Beta1	posted 09-16-99 10:09 AM ET You covered most things. I would just add the importance of using airpower to disrupt the opponents supply lines (roads magtubes etc) and killing sensor nets. Perhaps take and hold is over-rated - its better to not leave the enemy anything dangerous to hit back with than have to defend against a counterattack. Getting the job done quickly is vital - in civ 2 I would try and take everything in one turn - in SMAC the same is true. Hitting multiple targets away from the front lines with drop troops/amphibious units can really disrupt even the best in-depth defence. Beta-1
Velociryx	posted 09-16-99 10:13 AM ET Hiya Force! Sounds like a pretty good general plan to me, the only thing though, is that if you begin migrating elements of your army to the site of the battle "long before" you actually attack, you give yourself away, and your enemy will be ready and waiting for you. This could easily lead to an "arms race" situation, where you adjust the size of the army you need upward to meet the additional defenses your opponent is building, and that causes your opponent to build more troops, which causes you to adjust your numbers upward again.....and the attack stalls before it ever gets going, or turns into an attrition grind....UGH.... If I was going to run something like that (with a fairly large objective, ie, "sweep six enemy bases all the way up to a narrow choke point" or something like that), I'd probably begin my battle preparations by making noise in some other part of the enemy's empire to begin throwing his army off balance, and I'd not concentrate my troops in any one location, so as not to give away my true intent. As preparations continued, I'd step up my level of probe activity, and do some sabre-rattling (perhaps even subverting a small base and dropping a fairly stout defense force off, again, somewhere fairly far from my true objective). Even if my opponent suspects I'm up to something else, this gives him two basically unattractive choices: He can either let me keep the little base, or he can hit it with sufficient force to take it back, but since it lies far from my true objective, if he does that, he's almost assured to take the base from me, but the price will be that many of his military assets will be "off-balance" and unable to provide immediate support when I strike toward my true objective. Time-wise though, I'm with you. Long, drawn out seiges SUCK, and the quicker you can get that part over with and be the one occupying the best terrain and closest production centers, the better off you'll be.... -Just my ramblings....lol -=Vel=-
laurens	posted 09-16-99 10:51 AM ET ForcePacifist - Good account. And of course I'm sure you are using them against the failing AI. Against real life opponents, I think to play unusually, adopting a different kind of strategy each time round, occasionally playing logically, then playing illogically, is the only way to win every single game. Just like playing chess.
Plato90s	posted 09-16-99 11:00 AM ET Good plan, in general, except you left out the logistics of the situation. Besides your main combat units, every campaign should include a fair number of probe teams, formers, and the occasional supply crawler. The probe teams are useful to protect the recently captured cities from enemy probes [if you don't have HSA] and to shield your own units. You may want to send them in for a bit of strategic sabotage as well. The formers are needed to extend your road and magrail network into the recently conquered territory. With a magrail line, invasions become quick and easy. In one game, I was getting ready to declare war on a Pact brother [Gaians] because I wanted the special projects. In preparation, I sent formers into Gaian territory and started building magrails, but I left breaks in strategic places so the Gaians can't use the magrails for instant movement inside their empire. When I invaded, I took a number of formers with me to immediately link up the breaks. Instant magrail network that allowed my invasion force to travel from the heart of my empire into the battle zone. Finally, you want a couple of crawlers because captured bases are very drone-prone, and you may need crawlers to supplement the food supply while you get things under control.
ForcePacifist	posted 09-16-99 12:08 PM ET Laurens, ever read 'The Player of Games' by iain banks, you sound like the central character.if i could play smac in real time-id play against another person and indeed use the 'subtle art of chaos' method. Plato90- damn fine suggestion, i hadnt thought of that, abit like an extended autobahn system. in general though, defending aquirered bases is very important in most of the games i play bcos i like to play pillage, once you commit -better not to lose any aquired bases, unless you enact a scorched earth retreat if/when things go wrong, or give the base over to a tech-weaker friendly just before you lose it. probably better to just keep hold of conquerd bases in pillage mode.
Beta1	posted 09-16-99 03:59 PM ET Great book that - not as good as excession but still good. Anyone remember that thread about ways to convince the opposition you were out of your mind / completely inept / stupid? Beta-1 Currently onboard the GSV "Anticipation of a new lovers arrival"
Kimmitt	posted 09-16-99 04:41 PM ET I agree with most of the statements here, but I feel that these strategies, if followed, would be too slow. What levels of difficulty are you playing at? That said, I think that the best way of looking at offense is "to deprive one's opponent of the opportunity to present a successful defense." Offense can, thus, come in the form of Probe Teams, overwhelming force, diplomatic pressure, or just enough units to squeeze your Scout Rover past the Perimeter Defense. The key is to retain as many options as possible while simultaneously taking away your opponent's options. To that end, I prefer to attack with a great deal of offensive units (attack rovers/hovers, Needlejets, helicoptors) and press relentlessly, rather than practice take-and-hold strategies which allow my opponent to prepare his own counterattacks. This strategy is especially effective against people, as an early setback in a war can push your opponent into a bunker strategy, making you safe from counterattack (and your opponent more likely to offer goodies in order to avoid your wrath).
ForcePacifist	posted 09-17-99 08:29 AM ET Kimmitt the Hivean i believe. havin talked about long range stratergy and planning wars while your opponents still think your their fwend, (so i like to anthropomorthasize the ai)of course its still inportant to have a standing Rapid Responce Military for power-projection purposes in an ever changing and dangerouse world. Force Pacifist, aka: Skaffen Amitskew assualt class drone, the Grey Area.