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Author Topic:   Cornering the Global Market

MCinBigD posted 08-25-99 07:57 PM ET
Who's got the fastest time to corner the Global Market? and How?
MC
Natguy posted 08-25-99 08:39 PM ET
Never done it.
Schoop posted 08-25-99 09:55 PM ET
quickest for me was about 2225.
Played Morgan, using Free Market for a long time, had three pacts going, so I was getting money out the yingyang, and expanding like crazy.
The friendlier you are with people, the less cash it actually takes, in my experience. I don't know if it's actually true. I bought out the market for about 3000. won the game about 2235.
ViVicdi posted 08-25-99 11:39 PM ET
Turn random events off.
Schoop posted 08-26-99 10:09 AM ET
turn random events off??? NEVER! I find that the game is far more enjoyable if I have to worry about crop failures and the like. Besides, research breakthroughs and things like that are also random events and extremely helpful.
MCinBigD posted 08-26-99 01:36 PM ET
The Economic challenge seems to be the hardest and hasn't been properly tackled. Except by Schoop it seems.
I am declaring a challenge to fellow SMAC's to win by Economic Conquest on TI, a huge sized planet, blind research, average life/erosive, non-agressive.
This is truly the final frontier.
MC
Krushala posted 08-26-99 06:16 PM ET
2225? That seems low. They always give me some outrageously high energy value. And when I get up to that amount, I click on it and it has gone up even more. So I said **** this and finished the techs toward transcendence.
Schoop posted 08-26-99 07:58 PM ET
I do have to admit, I got lucky: I got dropped between the Uranium Fields and the Sunny Mesa, and managed to grab the Geothermal Shallows. And I was only playing on Librarian at the time.
The AI was having a tough time getting started, and I somehow had enough cash to attempt a market corner as soon as I learned Planetary Economics.
Krushala posted 08-26-99 10:22 PM ET
What size map do you usually play. I usually wait too long when the ai has too many bases.
Schoop posted 08-27-99 07:54 AM ET
usually standard, occasionally large.
If MCinBigD wants to make his challenge tougher, he should go for the tiny map: not enough room to expand tot he prime energy territory first+close proximity to aggressors makes for a tougher game for builders.
MCinBigD posted 08-27-99 01:24 PM ET
Schoop, I like the way you think. But I'll give the builders a fighting chance. Since this variation of victory has not been exploited, we'll start easy and work towards impossible.
Let the games begin.
MC
Hunterseeker posted 09-01-99 04:37 PM ET
I have never won by Cornering the Global Energy Market. Every time I can afford it, I usually get more points by researching until I can build the Ascent to Transcendence SP.
I have another question though: It seems that 1000 energy is the lowest amount of moeny you can pay. Is that true?
TNSe posted 09-01-99 06:21 PM ET
Hehe..
I did a Economic victory in 2255 on Transcend difficulty... WITH THE BELIEVERS...
Only chance I had.
TNSe
Vorlin posted 09-02-99 03:44 AM ET
I wonder if destroying the headquarters of the factions you were trying to buy out would lead to a drastic reduction in purchase price? I don't have a game set up so I can test this, but someone might give it a shot to see...
ViVicdi posted 09-05-99 09:45 PM ET
Attempting an economic victory with random events enabled is sheer suicide.
DilithiumDad posted 09-07-99 06:34 PM ET
I am currently working on this as a personal challenge, because the Hall of Fame for economic victory at Apolyton has only one entry! But I haven't made it yet. I am using Thinker level (Transcend makes the AI aggressive, so you would have to conquer several factions, I think, to make submissive pact brothers to get enough commerce).
The AI hates you as soon as you start to accumulate credits. They start making exaggerated demands, then attack. Whenever I try to corner the market, I find I quickly have vendettas with everyone (especially Morgan, if not playing the Morganites). Also, the cost keeps rising as the AI factions expand.
ViVicdi posted 09-08-99 01:27 AM ET
Just conquer everything except a couple of puny bases then buy the Econ Win for a couple hundred bucks. That would be the "Economy Victory", as opposed to the Economic one.
WhiteHowler posted 09-08-99 02:44 AM ET
I just finished a game playing the Morganites (Talent level) and cornered the global market in 2358.
I conquered two bases the entire game, and mind controlled three (mainly to make Yang leave me alone). The total cost was around 38,000 -- I was playing on a Huge map and only the Spartans had been eliminated. It's pretty easy to win an Economic victory if you beat everyone down to a base or two, so I wanted to try it from a "pacifist" standpoint.
Social Engineering used: Democracy, Free Market, Wealth early on, changing to Green later on (depending on your setup, you can pull in more energy with Efficiency).
Strategy: I started between the Peacekeepers (who became pact brothers early on, and never broke it) and the Hive (who were a pain in the ass, but left me alone after I took a few cities). I spent the entire game holding Treaties with most of the other factions (except the University, who hated me for some reason). The secret to making a ton of money is liberal use of supply crawlers, along with enough formers to put solar collectors everywhere. I had a large bay near my capital city, which I eventually filled up with tidal harnesses and supply foils -- 5 energy per turn each! I built all of the commerce and labs secret projects in the capital, so it was cranking out about half of my total econ/labs production. At size 14, it was bringing in 227 energy per turn (with 14 orbital power stations, 3 treaties, and 1 pact). This translated to 2800 lab points(!) at 100% labs, or somewhere around 1300 energy credits at 100% energy -- I generally kept it around 60/40 Econ to Labs, switching most of the Econ to Psych once my Economic victory attempt was underway.
It's pretty easy to make the AI players leave you alone on Talent level, so I'm not sure if this would work as well on higher difficulties... (give me a break, I've only completed about five games =)
Hunterseeker posted 09-08-99 02:35 PM ET
Well, I'm playing on Librabrian level and I always keep the other factions as friends. So I really never haven't experienced the other factions declare war on me, when I corner the global energy market.
But I've also only tried it once, because I became so bored waiting for the twenty turns to approach that I never wanted to try it again.
And WhiteHowler, you've learned AC faster than I did learn Civilization. I played about ten games before I started on Prince the same as Talent in AC. So there's actually nothing to be ashamed of.
Schoop posted 09-08-99 03:19 PM ET
a sly trick that I'm not sure works. I'd have to try it in multiplayer. (damn this blasted firewall!)
Corner the Market during sunspot activity. By the time the other factions know, they've only got 10 turns to get your Headquarters.
WhiteHowler posted 09-08-99 07:47 PM ET
Strangely, the other factions didn't seem to care that my economic takeover of the planet was only a few turns away. Every time one of them thought about declaring Vandetta on me, Brother Lal would send a dozen cruise missiles and needlejets their way. See, he IS good for something! =)
The game was all about supply crawlers. I was bringing in so much energy per turn that even if someone had attacked, I could have subverted their troops -- and half of their empire. If anyone would like a savegame, I'd be happy to send you one -- the only real highlight is my capital, which was turning out... umm... a LOT of energy. *grin*
As for the difficulty level... I used to be a pretty die-hard Civ2 player, so I felt like I was sort of cheating the system by playing on Talent. Never fear, I'm pretty close to taking the Gaians to a midgame military victory on Librarian now.
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Author	Topic: Cornering the Global Market
MCinBigD	posted 08-25-99 07:57 PM ET Who's got the fastest time to corner the Global Market? and How? MC
Natguy	posted 08-25-99 08:39 PM ET Never done it.
Schoop	posted 08-25-99 09:55 PM ET quickest for me was about 2225. Played Morgan, using Free Market for a long time, had three pacts going, so I was getting money out the yingyang, and expanding like crazy. The friendlier you are with people, the less cash it actually takes, in my experience. I don't know if it's actually true. I bought out the market for about 3000. won the game about 2235.
ViVicdi	posted 08-25-99 11:39 PM ET Turn random events off.
Schoop	posted 08-26-99 10:09 AM ET turn random events off??? NEVER! I find that the game is far more enjoyable if I have to worry about crop failures and the like. Besides, research breakthroughs and things like that are also random events and extremely helpful.
MCinBigD	posted 08-26-99 01:36 PM ET The Economic challenge seems to be the hardest and hasn't been properly tackled. Except by Schoop it seems. I am declaring a challenge to fellow SMAC's to win by Economic Conquest on TI, a huge sized planet, blind research, average life/erosive, non-agressive. This is truly the final frontier. MC
Krushala	posted 08-26-99 06:16 PM ET 2225? That seems low. They always give me some outrageously high energy value. And when I get up to that amount, I click on it and it has gone up even more. So I said **** this and finished the techs toward transcendence.
Schoop	posted 08-26-99 07:58 PM ET I do have to admit, I got lucky: I got dropped between the Uranium Fields and the Sunny Mesa, and managed to grab the Geothermal Shallows. And I was only playing on Librarian at the time. The AI was having a tough time getting started, and I somehow had enough cash to attempt a market corner as soon as I learned Planetary Economics.
Krushala	posted 08-26-99 10:22 PM ET What size map do you usually play. I usually wait too long when the ai has too many bases.
Schoop	posted 08-27-99 07:54 AM ET usually standard, occasionally large. If MCinBigD wants to make his challenge tougher, he should go for the tiny map: not enough room to expand tot he prime energy territory first+close proximity to aggressors makes for a tougher game for builders.
MCinBigD	posted 08-27-99 01:24 PM ET Schoop, I like the way you think. But I'll give the builders a fighting chance. Since this variation of victory has not been exploited, we'll start easy and work towards impossible. Let the games begin. MC
Hunterseeker	posted 09-01-99 04:37 PM ET I have never won by Cornering the Global Energy Market. Every time I can afford it, I usually get more points by researching until I can build the Ascent to Transcendence SP. I have another question though: It seems that 1000 energy is the lowest amount of moeny you can pay. Is that true?
TNSe	posted 09-01-99 06:21 PM ET Hehe.. I did a Economic victory in 2255 on Transcend difficulty... WITH THE BELIEVERS... Only chance I had. TNSe
Vorlin	posted 09-02-99 03:44 AM ET I wonder if destroying the headquarters of the factions you were trying to buy out would lead to a drastic reduction in purchase price? I don't have a game set up so I can test this, but someone might give it a shot to see...
ViVicdi	posted 09-05-99 09:45 PM ET Attempting an economic victory with random events enabled is sheer suicide.
DilithiumDad	posted 09-07-99 06:34 PM ET I am currently working on this as a personal challenge, because the Hall of Fame for economic victory at Apolyton has only one entry! But I haven't made it yet. I am using Thinker level (Transcend makes the AI aggressive, so you would have to conquer several factions, I think, to make submissive pact brothers to get enough commerce). The AI hates you as soon as you start to accumulate credits. They start making exaggerated demands, then attack. Whenever I try to corner the market, I find I quickly have vendettas with everyone (especially Morgan, if not playing the Morganites). Also, the cost keeps rising as the AI factions expand.
ViVicdi	posted 09-08-99 01:27 AM ET Just conquer everything except a couple of puny bases then buy the Econ Win for a couple hundred bucks. That would be the "Economy Victory", as opposed to the Economic one.
WhiteHowler	posted 09-08-99 02:44 AM ET I just finished a game playing the Morganites (Talent level) and cornered the global market in 2358. I conquered two bases the entire game, and mind controlled three (mainly to make Yang leave me alone). The total cost was around 38,000 -- I was playing on a Huge map and only the Spartans had been eliminated. It's pretty easy to win an Economic victory if you beat everyone down to a base or two, so I wanted to try it from a "pacifist" standpoint. Social Engineering used: Democracy, Free Market, Wealth early on, changing to Green later on (depending on your setup, you can pull in more energy with Efficiency). Strategy: I started between the Peacekeepers (who became pact brothers early on, and never broke it) and the Hive (who were a pain in the ass, but left me alone after I took a few cities). I spent the entire game holding Treaties with most of the other factions (except the University, who hated me for some reason). The secret to making a ton of money is liberal use of supply crawlers, along with enough formers to put solar collectors everywhere. I had a large bay near my capital city, which I eventually filled up with tidal harnesses and supply foils -- 5 energy per turn each! I built all of the commerce and labs secret projects in the capital, so it was cranking out about half of my total econ/labs production. At size 14, it was bringing in 227 energy per turn (with 14 orbital power stations, 3 treaties, and 1 pact). This translated to 2800 lab points(!) at 100% labs, or somewhere around 1300 energy credits at 100% energy -- I generally kept it around 60/40 Econ to Labs, switching most of the Econ to Psych once my Economic victory attempt was underway. It's pretty easy to make the AI players leave you alone on Talent level, so I'm not sure if this would work as well on higher difficulties... (give me a break, I've only completed about five games =)
Hunterseeker	posted 09-08-99 02:35 PM ET Well, I'm playing on Librabrian level and I always keep the other factions as friends. So I really never haven't experienced the other factions declare war on me, when I corner the global energy market. But I've also only tried it once, because I became so bored waiting for the twenty turns to approach that I never wanted to try it again. And WhiteHowler, you've learned AC faster than I did learn Civilization. I played about ten games before I started on Prince the same as Talent in AC. So there's actually nothing to be ashamed of.
Schoop	posted 09-08-99 03:19 PM ET a sly trick that I'm not sure works. I'd have to try it in multiplayer. (damn this blasted firewall!) Corner the Market during sunspot activity. By the time the other factions know, they've only got 10 turns to get your Headquarters.
WhiteHowler	posted 09-08-99 07:47 PM ET Strangely, the other factions didn't seem to care that my economic takeover of the planet was only a few turns away. Every time one of them thought about declaring Vandetta on me, Brother Lal would send a dozen cruise missiles and needlejets their way. See, he IS good for something! =) The game was all about supply crawlers. I was bringing in so much energy per turn that even if someone had attacked, I could have subverted their troops -- and half of their empire. If anyone would like a savegame, I'd be happy to send you one -- the only real highlight is my capital, which was turning out... umm... a LOT of energy. grin As for the difficulty level... I used to be a pretty die-hard Civ2 player, so I felt like I was sort of cheating the system by playing on Talent. Never fear, I'm pretty close to taking the Gaians to a midgame military victory on Librarian now.