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Author Topic:   A question about research points

DrPhibes posted 07-21-99 10:40 AM ET
Building facilities like Fusion lab, bio lab, etc adds 50% boost to labs.
My question is: 50% of what?
Is the equation: energy from this base allocated to research multiplied by 50%?
Then where do the se choices kick in? After that? Before?
If anybody can set me straight i would be
grateful.
Cheers
Natguy posted 07-21-99 10:46 AM ET
Yes, it increases the amount of energy from that base which is used for research. I think that the SE settings kick in before the enhancements start going, but I don't really know for sure.
Plato90s posted 07-21-99 11:15 AM ET
The bonus is cumulative. So if you had Network node and Biology Lab, both adds 50% to lab output. The math goes like this.
Say you had 10 base energy. 50% allocation to research. That gives you a base ouput of 5 lab.
5 + 2.5 (50% from network node) = 7.5
7.5 + 3.75 [50% from Biology lab] = 11.25
Since SMAC rounds down, the final output is
5 [base energy] + 6 [bonus] = 11 lab output.
The SE choices apply to a different area. Say you have +2 research, that's a 20% bonus on research. Instead of taking 2000 lab points to get a technology, it'll now take 1600 lab point.
Natguy posted 07-21-99 12:20 PM ET
Ah, I see. But doesn't the Bio Lab just contribute +2 research? I think you may be thinking of one of the Research Hospital or one of its ilk.
Zoetrope posted 07-22-99 06:00 AM ET
So, does the Biology Lab give +2 labs before or after the Network Node's +50%?
If SMAC follows Civ2's example, then every +50% would be on the base rate, and therefore additive, not multiplicative.
IOW if we have a base lab rate of 10, a Bio Lab, and three facilities giving +50% each, the result would be:
10 + 2 + (10 * 3 * 0.5) = 27 labs.
IF it were multiplicative with the Bio Lab applying last, we would get:
(10 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5) + 2 = 35.75 labs, rounded down to 35 labs.
If Bio Labs were applied first, we'd get:
12 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 40.5 labs, rounded down to 40 labs.
But, it's probably additive.
DrPhibes posted 07-23-99 10:38 AM ET
Thanks Plato90s and Zoetrope, i'll check the numbers. Sorry Natguy, but please don't post if you don't know.
One other point: some facilities increase labs and some research -- is there a difference?
Cheers
Plato90s posted 07-23-99 11:33 AM ET
Well, I've tested the Biology Lab. It does not add +2 to lab. It adds the standard 50% bonus.
Start with City with 7 lab research points and network node. I get 7 (base) + 3 bonus (network node) = 10. Build the Biology Lab, I get 7 (base) + 8 bonus (node+bio lab) = 15.
The only way the math works out is
7 (base) + 3.5 (network node) = 10.5
10.5 + 5.25 (bio lab) = 15.75
SMAC rounds down so it's 7 base + 8 bonus = 15 total.
Natguy posted 07-24-99 12:45 AM ET
Oh my God, I so sorry for wasting your valuable time, DrPhibes! Oh, remorse for befouling your beautiful thread with my worthless bilge! Oh, the pangs! I must immediately do penance to cleanse myself of this monstrous sin!
Natguy posted 07-24-99 12:53 AM ET
Um, sorry about that above post. You see, when I say I don't really know about something, what I mean is that I also would like to know.
TheScientist posted 07-25-99 08:25 AM ET
Plato90s: Are you sure you get 8 bonus?
I get only 7 bonus with 7 energy and node + bio lab.
I think, bio lab adds 2 before all other facilities add their +50%. Every +50% is add to the ground value (energy + bio lab).
(7 + 2 [from bio lab]) * (1 + .5 [from node]) = 9 * 1.5 = 13.5 rounded up to 14, makes 7 energy + 7 bonus
I tested some other values with having ALL research facilities (network node, bio lab, research & nano hospitals, fusion & quantum labs):
(5 + 2 [bio lab]) * (1 + 2.5 [five other facilities]) = 7 * 3.5 = 24.5 rounded to 25, is 5 energy + 20 bonus
(7 + 2) * 3.5 = 31.5 rounded to 32, is 7 energy + 25 bouns
All values I've calculated are matching exactly with the values in the game.
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Author	Topic: A question about research points
DrPhibes	posted 07-21-99 10:40 AM ET Building facilities like Fusion lab, bio lab, etc adds 50% boost to labs. My question is: 50% of what? Is the equation: energy from this base allocated to research multiplied by 50%? Then where do the se choices kick in? After that? Before? If anybody can set me straight i would be grateful. Cheers
Natguy	posted 07-21-99 10:46 AM ET Yes, it increases the amount of energy from that base which is used for research. I think that the SE settings kick in before the enhancements start going, but I don't really know for sure.
Plato90s	posted 07-21-99 11:15 AM ET The bonus is cumulative. So if you had Network node and Biology Lab, both adds 50% to lab output. The math goes like this. Say you had 10 base energy. 50% allocation to research. That gives you a base ouput of 5 lab. 5 + 2.5 (50% from network node) = 7.5 7.5 + 3.75 [50% from Biology lab] = 11.25 Since SMAC rounds down, the final output is 5 [base energy] + 6 [bonus] = 11 lab output. The SE choices apply to a different area. Say you have +2 research, that's a 20% bonus on research. Instead of taking 2000 lab points to get a technology, it'll now take 1600 lab point.
Natguy	posted 07-21-99 12:20 PM ET Ah, I see. But doesn't the Bio Lab just contribute +2 research? I think you may be thinking of one of the Research Hospital or one of its ilk.
Zoetrope	posted 07-22-99 06:00 AM ET So, does the Biology Lab give +2 labs before or after the Network Node's +50%? If SMAC follows Civ2's example, then every +50% would be on the base rate, and therefore additive, not multiplicative. IOW if we have a base lab rate of 10, a Bio Lab, and three facilities giving +50% each, the result would be: 10 + 2 + (10 * 3 * 0.5) = 27 labs. IF it were multiplicative with the Bio Lab applying last, we would get: (10 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5) + 2 = 35.75 labs, rounded down to 35 labs. If Bio Labs were applied first, we'd get: 12 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 40.5 labs, rounded down to 40 labs. But, it's probably additive.
DrPhibes	posted 07-23-99 10:38 AM ET Thanks Plato90s and Zoetrope, i'll check the numbers. Sorry Natguy, but please don't post if you don't know. One other point: some facilities increase labs and some research -- is there a difference? Cheers
Plato90s	posted 07-23-99 11:33 AM ET Well, I've tested the Biology Lab. It does not add +2 to lab. It adds the standard 50% bonus. Start with City with 7 lab research points and network node. I get 7 (base) + 3 bonus (network node) = 10. Build the Biology Lab, I get 7 (base) + 8 bonus (node+bio lab) = 15. The only way the math works out is 7 (base) + 3.5 (network node) = 10.5 10.5 + 5.25 (bio lab) = 15.75 SMAC rounds down so it's 7 base + 8 bonus = 15 total.
Natguy	posted 07-24-99 12:45 AM ET Oh my God, I so sorry for wasting your valuable time, DrPhibes! Oh, remorse for befouling your beautiful thread with my worthless bilge! Oh, the pangs! I must immediately do penance to cleanse myself of this monstrous sin!
Natguy	posted 07-24-99 12:53 AM ET Um, sorry about that above post. You see, when I say I don't really know about something, what I mean is that I also would like to know.
TheScientist	posted 07-25-99 08:25 AM ET Plato90s: Are you sure you get 8 bonus? I get only 7 bonus with 7 energy and node + bio lab. I think, bio lab adds 2 before all other facilities add their +50%. Every +50% is add to the ground value (energy + bio lab). (7 + 2 [from bio lab]) * (1 + .5 [from node]) = 9 * 1.5 = 13.5 rounded up to 14, makes 7 energy + 7 bonus I tested some other values with having ALL research facilities (network node, bio lab, research & nano hospitals, fusion & quantum labs): (5 + 2 [bio lab]) * (1 + 2.5 [five other facilities]) = 7 * 3.5 = 24.5 rounded to 25, is 5 energy + 20 bonus (7 + 2) * 3.5 = 31.5 rounded to 32, is 7 energy + 25 bouns All values I've calculated are matching exactly with the values in the game.