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Author Topic:   Ecological Damage Strategies

Barry Greenwald posted 07-17-99 06:10 PM ET
Are there any strategies for completely eliminating Eco Damage at arbitrarily high Mineral Production Rates near the end of the game.
Senor Phatness posted 07-17-99 06:18 PM ET
I had a base once. It had like 300 minerals and about 25 eco damage (I consider that alot. I don't know about everybody else.). I put it right in the middle of the ruins and left the fungus so every square got alot of minerals. After a while it went down and I turned as many of my people as I could afford to feed into Transcends. Now it's down to 4. I don't know why it started going down by itself though...
Krushala posted 07-17-99 06:25 PM ET
You mentioned near the end of the game. Building the voice of planet will prevent mind worm boils as a result of ecodamage. I'm sure you know the basic ways like centauri preserve, temple of planet, tree farm, hybrid forest.
I find I really don't need any high production bases. You can use supply crawlers to do all the work for you. Because of upgrading you can keep an army the whole game so pumping out units isn't really necessary. Use crawlers for SP's if necessary. But energy is all I need to build anything. I can build SP's in one turn with the peackeepers. They rake in so much money even when I was in green economy.
Barry Greenwald posted 07-17-99 06:35 PM ET
According to the help section of the manual. The eco damage is multiplied by ( 3 - Planet rating ) Therefore, with a planet rating of 3 or higher, I should be able to generate as many minerals as I want without consequence. But, I find this is not true?
Any reasons????
Inix posted 07-20-99 01:38 PM ET
I have had bizzare expierience with eco damage too. I was giains, had all the eco damage reducing facilities. All of my squares were either forest or fungus, and i had not yet built the Voice. I had INSANE levels of eco damage, like 35 per base or something. I thought forests (and i assume fungus as well?) mitigates eco damage, and i had a planet rating of 3 (giains +1 and green economics +2). I was using patch 4.0. I have no idea what was going on. I also had all the facilities for production enhancement.
Is this supposed to happen? I didnt really care about the fungus blooms, since my fungus production was about the same as my forest production, and my psy-combat was unsurpassed (i was producing Demon Boils at this point). However, if it is inevitable that in endgame u are destined to have massive eco damage no matter what, this would seem to detract greatly from strategy since terrain enhancements become useless or nearly so. U would have to maintain an army of formers along with military units and constantly remove fungus/rebuild terrain enhancements and i was getting so many fungal blooms and mindworm surges im not even sure if that would work. Is my game simpily bugged or is this the way it is supposed to happen?
I seem to remember reading somewhere that your planet rating affects your psy-combat but could find no documentation on the actual mechanics of this. Is planet rating a significant factor in psy-combat?
Timexwatch posted 07-20-99 02:20 PM ET
Inix, did you build any Centauri Preserves, tree farms, hybrid forests, or temples of planet? They all reduce eco-damage.
As for planet rating and PSI combat, I believe you get +10% bonus on attack for every point above zero you have on your planet rating.
Vinny posted 07-20-99 02:33 PM ET
You also get a -10% penalty for every point below 0. Hence with FM maybe a better idea to let the worms attack you instead if in a base with a sensor.
peace_keeper posted 07-20-99 02:38 PM ET
I have read in a stratagie guide that I bought that if you build tree farm and hybrid forest it completely stops eco damage, but this can't be, because I have built these, and it doesn't stop. Has anyone else heard about the tree farm hybrid forest combo?
Plato90s posted 07-20-99 04:42 PM ET
Keep in mind there are two sources of eco-damage. Terraforming and mineral production. Forests have no terraforming damage and contributes toward mitigating terraforming eco-damage. Mineral production eco-damage can be reduced, but not eliminated. If you have high eco-damage, reduce your mineral production.
Series II posted 07-20-99 04:42 PM ET
Tree Farm and Hybrid Forest eliminate all eco damage from terraforming and only from terraforming. Eco damage from mineral production is still something you have to deal with.
TheScientist posted 07-20-99 04:58 PM ET
A solution is to build only condensors and put all mineral production into space. With a condensor on every tile, cities can easy reach a pop of 100+ and get more than 100 minerals/energy from space, without any eco-damage.
Plato90s posted 07-20-99 07:58 PM ET
Getting lots of minerals from orbital satellites will still cause eco-damage.
The final solution is simple. Just build the Voice of Planet. That will obviate any future worm attacks due to eco-damage. The only problem is the encroachment of fungus, but you should have plenty of formers by now to push the fungus back.
Sector7G posted 07-20-99 09:48 PM ET
I was playing the PK Last game and doing quite nicely ..anyway Game year is about 2300 At war with Hive/Spartans/morgan and using attrocities
I built Cent Pres/tree/hybrid in almost all of my 50 bases before I had any eco-damage, my bases were producing maybe 15-20 min 30-40 min in about 3 of my top bases(not even a min enhancing facility built yet)
In a matter of 3 turns my eco damage went from 0-3 to 30-60!!!,the sea level was raising by 1333+meters, the land on the west side of land masses was a nice ripe green (everyhwere),there were about 20-30 fungal blooms per turn and bout 15-20 mindworms out of these blooms(not to mention locusts) (no exaggerations)
My question is, do attrocites contribute to eco-damage and If not what happened here?
Series II posted 07-20-99 10:59 PM ET
Well, yes. Atrocities do damage your planet rating. Thus your planet rating goes down and your eco damage goes up.
K posted 07-21-99 12:25 AM ET
Also, the TOTAL amount of Centauri Preserves you have reduces the amount of eco-damage proportionality at ALL uour bases. Thus having four bases with Preserves is better than having one high damage base with one preserve.
Zoetrope posted 07-21-99 04:02 AM ET
TheScientist: Technically, it's mineral Processing that causes eco-damage, and that processing occurs in your bases, which is why Planet takes umbrage at the bases.
To elaborate Plato90s's explanation: Terraforming includes mines and farms. With Tree and Hybrid Farms you can eliminate Planet's dislike of having holes gouged out of its surface and its fungus brain replaced by fields of corn, but it still can't stand factories = Blake's "Dark Satanic mills". (You see, Planet's quite religious in the way of Genesis: hence the theme of the introduction and transcendance movies.)
Sector7G: Nerve gas drives Planet crazy: it would rather be Planet Busted than have you Nerve-Gassing all the time. (Planet does not want to be a "Choking Smoker", in John Lennon's words; so it will cough you out.)
I don't know what effect other atrocities have. Is it only PB and NG that Planet despises, or does Genetic Warfare also miff it?
K: Thanks for the note on Centauri Preserves: I have often wondered that, and acted on the assumption that it's true, without testing it.
Idunnoreally posted 07-21-99 04:27 AM ET
I play a faction where high minerals production is as essential as the air I breath!!(e.g. THE SPARTANS!!)
What I wanna know is that, in BLIND RESEARCH, which category should I choose to get the Tree Fram, Hybrid Forest, Centauri Preserve, Temple of Planet, Nanoreplicator, etc.(I know for e.g. Tree Farm and Hybrid Forest fall under "BUILD", but I wanna know the fastest way to get them all without having an ancient military and luring other agressive faction into conquering the hell out of me!!(e.g. the DAMN BLOODY HIVE!!! giving me a migraine for days!!)
Natguy posted 07-21-99 10:56 AM ET
I thought minerals from space didn't effect ecodamage. (Got this from the Strategy Guide, which has been known to lie)
Plato90s posted 07-21-99 11:17 AM ET
The actual minerals from space cause no terraforming eco-damage [since they aren't from mines] but the production eco-damage is calculated on the total mineral output, regardless of source. If you have Genejack Factory, Robotic Assembly Plant, Quantum Converter, etc... the overall mineral production rate is so high you are bound to have eco-damage.
TheScientist posted 07-21-99 04:37 PM ET
Space production doesn't cause any eco-damage. But the processing of this minerals, e.g. in factories, does.
I had an huge base (pop 125) getting 125 minerals from space and some additional from hilly terrain nearby and it caused no eco-damage at all. I didn't build any mineral processing facilities.
So the amount taken into calculation must be mineral_output_of_city - minerals_from_space.
TheScientist posted 07-21-99 05:04 PM ET
I've now tried to build a robot factory in this city. The eco-damage raised from 0 (141 minerals) to 171 (211 minerals).
Earwicker posted 07-26-99 02:46 PM ET
Try building the Pholus Mutagen also. I don't remember the details, but it reduces eco-damage to some degree. And the Singularity Inductor is a great late-game SP for reducing mineral eco-damage. Stay the heck away from the Bulk Matter Transmitter.
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Author	Topic: Ecological Damage Strategies
Barry Greenwald	posted 07-17-99 06:10 PM ET Are there any strategies for completely eliminating Eco Damage at arbitrarily high Mineral Production Rates near the end of the game.
Senor Phatness	posted 07-17-99 06:18 PM ET I had a base once. It had like 300 minerals and about 25 eco damage (I consider that alot. I don't know about everybody else.). I put it right in the middle of the ruins and left the fungus so every square got alot of minerals. After a while it went down and I turned as many of my people as I could afford to feed into Transcends. Now it's down to 4. I don't know why it started going down by itself though...
Krushala	posted 07-17-99 06:25 PM ET You mentioned near the end of the game. Building the voice of planet will prevent mind worm boils as a result of ecodamage. I'm sure you know the basic ways like centauri preserve, temple of planet, tree farm, hybrid forest. I find I really don't need any high production bases. You can use supply crawlers to do all the work for you. Because of upgrading you can keep an army the whole game so pumping out units isn't really necessary. Use crawlers for SP's if necessary. But energy is all I need to build anything. I can build SP's in one turn with the peackeepers. They rake in so much money even when I was in green economy.
Barry Greenwald	posted 07-17-99 06:35 PM ET According to the help section of the manual. The eco damage is multiplied by ( 3 - Planet rating ) Therefore, with a planet rating of 3 or higher, I should be able to generate as many minerals as I want without consequence. But, I find this is not true? Any reasons????
Inix	posted 07-20-99 01:38 PM ET I have had bizzare expierience with eco damage too. I was giains, had all the eco damage reducing facilities. All of my squares were either forest or fungus, and i had not yet built the Voice. I had INSANE levels of eco damage, like 35 per base or something. I thought forests (and i assume fungus as well?) mitigates eco damage, and i had a planet rating of 3 (giains +1 and green economics +2). I was using patch 4.0. I have no idea what was going on. I also had all the facilities for production enhancement. Is this supposed to happen? I didnt really care about the fungus blooms, since my fungus production was about the same as my forest production, and my psy-combat was unsurpassed (i was producing Demon Boils at this point). However, if it is inevitable that in endgame u are destined to have massive eco damage no matter what, this would seem to detract greatly from strategy since terrain enhancements become useless or nearly so. U would have to maintain an army of formers along with military units and constantly remove fungus/rebuild terrain enhancements and i was getting so many fungal blooms and mindworm surges im not even sure if that would work. Is my game simpily bugged or is this the way it is supposed to happen? I seem to remember reading somewhere that your planet rating affects your psy-combat but could find no documentation on the actual mechanics of this. Is planet rating a significant factor in psy-combat?
Timexwatch	posted 07-20-99 02:20 PM ET Inix, did you build any Centauri Preserves, tree farms, hybrid forests, or temples of planet? They all reduce eco-damage. As for planet rating and PSI combat, I believe you get +10% bonus on attack for every point above zero you have on your planet rating.
Vinny	posted 07-20-99 02:33 PM ET You also get a -10% penalty for every point below 0. Hence with FM maybe a better idea to let the worms attack you instead if in a base with a sensor.
peace_keeper	posted 07-20-99 02:38 PM ET I have read in a stratagie guide that I bought that if you build tree farm and hybrid forest it completely stops eco damage, but this can't be, because I have built these, and it doesn't stop. Has anyone else heard about the tree farm hybrid forest combo?
Plato90s	posted 07-20-99 04:42 PM ET Keep in mind there are two sources of eco-damage. Terraforming and mineral production. Forests have no terraforming damage and contributes toward mitigating terraforming eco-damage. Mineral production eco-damage can be reduced, but not eliminated. If you have high eco-damage, reduce your mineral production.
Series II	posted 07-20-99 04:42 PM ET Tree Farm and Hybrid Forest eliminate all eco damage from terraforming and only from terraforming. Eco damage from mineral production is still something you have to deal with.
TheScientist	posted 07-20-99 04:58 PM ET A solution is to build only condensors and put all mineral production into space. With a condensor on every tile, cities can easy reach a pop of 100+ and get more than 100 minerals/energy from space, without any eco-damage.
Plato90s	posted 07-20-99 07:58 PM ET Getting lots of minerals from orbital satellites will still cause eco-damage. The final solution is simple. Just build the Voice of Planet. That will obviate any future worm attacks due to eco-damage. The only problem is the encroachment of fungus, but you should have plenty of formers by now to push the fungus back.
Sector7G	posted 07-20-99 09:48 PM ET I was playing the PK Last game and doing quite nicely ..anyway Game year is about 2300 At war with Hive/Spartans/morgan and using attrocities I built Cent Pres/tree/hybrid in almost all of my 50 bases before I had any eco-damage, my bases were producing maybe 15-20 min 30-40 min in about 3 of my top bases(not even a min enhancing facility built yet) In a matter of 3 turns my eco damage went from 0-3 to 30-60!!!,the sea level was raising by 1333+meters, the land on the west side of land masses was a nice ripe green (everyhwere),there were about 20-30 fungal blooms per turn and bout 15-20 mindworms out of these blooms(not to mention locusts) (no exaggerations) My question is, do attrocites contribute to eco-damage and If not what happened here?
Series II	posted 07-20-99 10:59 PM ET Well, yes. Atrocities do damage your planet rating. Thus your planet rating goes down and your eco damage goes up.
K	posted 07-21-99 12:25 AM ET Also, the TOTAL amount of Centauri Preserves you have reduces the amount of eco-damage proportionality at ALL uour bases. Thus having four bases with Preserves is better than having one high damage base with one preserve.
Zoetrope	posted 07-21-99 04:02 AM ET TheScientist: Technically, it's mineral Processing that causes eco-damage, and that processing occurs in your bases, which is why Planet takes umbrage at the bases. To elaborate Plato90s's explanation: Terraforming includes mines and farms. With Tree and Hybrid Farms you can eliminate Planet's dislike of having holes gouged out of its surface and its fungus brain replaced by fields of corn, but it still can't stand factories = Blake's "Dark Satanic mills". (You see, Planet's quite religious in the way of Genesis: hence the theme of the introduction and transcendance movies.) Sector7G: Nerve gas drives Planet crazy: it would rather be Planet Busted than have you Nerve-Gassing all the time. (Planet does not want to be a "Choking Smoker", in John Lennon's words; so it will cough you out.) I don't know what effect other atrocities have. Is it only PB and NG that Planet despises, or does Genetic Warfare also miff it? K: Thanks for the note on Centauri Preserves: I have often wondered that, and acted on the assumption that it's true, without testing it.
Idunnoreally	posted 07-21-99 04:27 AM ET I play a faction where high minerals production is as essential as the air I breath!!(e.g. THE SPARTANS!!) What I wanna know is that, in BLIND RESEARCH, which category should I choose to get the Tree Fram, Hybrid Forest, Centauri Preserve, Temple of Planet, Nanoreplicator, etc.(I know for e.g. Tree Farm and Hybrid Forest fall under "BUILD", but I wanna know the fastest way to get them all without having an ancient military and luring other agressive faction into conquering the hell out of me!!(e.g. the DAMN BLOODY HIVE!!! giving me a migraine for days!!)
Natguy	posted 07-21-99 10:56 AM ET I thought minerals from space didn't effect ecodamage. (Got this from the Strategy Guide, which has been known to lie)
Plato90s	posted 07-21-99 11:17 AM ET The actual minerals from space cause no terraforming eco-damage [since they aren't from mines] but the production eco-damage is calculated on the total mineral output, regardless of source. If you have Genejack Factory, Robotic Assembly Plant, Quantum Converter, etc... the overall mineral production rate is so high you are bound to have eco-damage.
TheScientist	posted 07-21-99 04:37 PM ET Space production doesn't cause any eco-damage. But the processing of this minerals, e.g. in factories, does. I had an huge base (pop 125) getting 125 minerals from space and some additional from hilly terrain nearby and it caused no eco-damage at all. I didn't build any mineral processing facilities. So the amount taken into calculation must be mineral_output_of_city - minerals_from_space.
TheScientist	posted 07-21-99 05:04 PM ET I've now tried to build a robot factory in this city. The eco-damage raised from 0 (141 minerals) to 171 (211 minerals).
Earwicker	posted 07-26-99 02:46 PM ET Try building the Pholus Mutagen also. I don't remember the details, but it reduces eco-damage to some degree. And the Singularity Inductor is a great late-game SP for reducing mineral eco-damage. Stay the heck away from the Bulk Matter Transmitter.