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Author Topic:   Mind Control on Believers?

Natguy posted 06-28-99 11:21 AM ET
In the game I'm playing now as the UoP, I recently observed a Morganite probe team take control of a Believer city. What the heck? In the manual and datalinks and everywhere else it say's that you can't do that to the Believers, but that city now belongs to the Morganites! Are certain rules ignored by the AI?
googlie posted 06-28-99 11:29 AM ET
If the believer base had drone problems, they are susceptible
Resource Consumer posted 06-28-99 11:41 AM ET
Really, I never knew that. Googlie, do you mean that the drones have to riot or just have to exist?
googlie posted 06-28-99 11:56 AM ET
Believers start out with a +1 Probe (adds 50% to cost of subverting)
To be immune they need to be +3 - see extract from Alpha.txt below:
#SOCPROBE
-2, -50% cost of enemy probe team actions; enemy success rate increased
-1, -25% cost of enemy probe team actions; enemy success rate increased
0, Normal security measures
1, +1 probe team morale; +50% cost of enemy probe team actions
2, +2 probe team morale; Doubles cost of enemy probe team actions!
3, +3 probe team morale; Bases and units cannot be subverted!!
googlie
Putting a spin on it
googlie posted 06-28-99 12:00 PM ET
RC
I'm sure I read in one of the strategy guides (or maybe an old crashed forum post)that (yes, rioting) drones have a minus 50% on probe resistance, so that Believers with all the goodies (+3) would become +1.5, and as SMAC always rounds down would be equivalent to a +1, meaning that the cost to subvert would only be 50% higher.
But only a plus 3 gives total immunity.
googlie
Putting a spin on it
Resource Consumer posted 06-28-99 03:35 PM ET
Googlie,
Thanks. I'll remember to try that flipper next time Min cuts ut rough.
Resource Consumer
- A leg spinner before Shane Warne ! -
Natguy posted 06-28-99 05:11 PM ET
Cool! So, if you had lots of probes you could send them out in teams of two, one to incite riots and the other to nab the base?
googlie posted 06-28-99 06:00 PM ET
Yeah - i think that tactic would work (other than on Miriam, where it would be just as hard to incite the rioting). But for anyone else...
Thinking aloud, though...the 50% reduction might be on the cost of subverting, maybe not on the probe resistance itself. Still worthwhile as a tactic, though.
Googlie
laurens posted 06-28-99 10:26 PM ET
Yup, it can be done.
They only have a SE probe bonus of +1, that doesn't mean immunity.
Zoetrope posted 06-29-99 03:35 AM ET
Natguy: yes, if a faction is susceptible to induced riots, then I'll send probe teams to cause a riot, then purchase the base at a reduced cost. This works great, especially when I'm either Morgan or Believers.
I love blaming it on another faction, but that reduces the success rate, so I usually just take the odium (and the base).
If you have enough money (Morgan), you can take out several bases in one turn. That catastrophe may be enough to make a foe seriously consider surrendering.
Igor posted 06-29-99 06:40 AM ET
Are you sure that Believers are using Fundy?
If not it is quite simple to capture their bases, if using FM. In one of my games as UoP I captured (read: bought) 2/3 of Believers bases before they got Fundy. It was great 'coz those bases were in Moonsoon Jungle.
I am not sure that it's possible to buy Believers' bases when they under Fundy. Anyway, they have +3 probe. Drone riots affect cost of base and vulnerability, but immunity is immunity.
googlie posted 06-29-99 02:14 PM ET
Fundy gives them the +2 on top of their +1 advantage, making them immune, but if they are pursuing Knowledge then they get a -2 disadvantage. So knoiwledge and fundy cancel each other out.
googlie
Hamburger Hacker posted 06-30-99 01:00 AM ET
The Believers can't use the Knowledge value.
googlie posted 06-30-99 01:22 AM ET
Oops, you're right. I'd been looking at a hacked .txt file that had the believers at wealth = 0, reinstating knowledge (as being more representative of an ascetic society)
googlie
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Author	Topic: Mind Control on Believers?
Natguy	posted 06-28-99 11:21 AM ET In the game I'm playing now as the UoP, I recently observed a Morganite probe team take control of a Believer city. What the heck? In the manual and datalinks and everywhere else it say's that you can't do that to the Believers, but that city now belongs to the Morganites! Are certain rules ignored by the AI?
googlie	posted 06-28-99 11:29 AM ET If the believer base had drone problems, they are susceptible
Resource Consumer	posted 06-28-99 11:41 AM ET Really, I never knew that. Googlie, do you mean that the drones have to riot or just have to exist?
googlie	posted 06-28-99 11:56 AM ET Believers start out with a +1 Probe (adds 50% to cost of subverting) To be immune they need to be +3 - see extract from Alpha.txt below: #SOCPROBE -2, -50% cost of enemy probe team actions; enemy success rate increased -1, -25% cost of enemy probe team actions; enemy success rate increased 0, Normal security measures 1, +1 probe team morale; +50% cost of enemy probe team actions 2, +2 probe team morale; Doubles cost of enemy probe team actions! 3, +3 probe team morale; Bases and units cannot be subverted!! googlie Putting a spin on it
googlie	posted 06-28-99 12:00 PM ET RC I'm sure I read in one of the strategy guides (or maybe an old crashed forum post)that (yes, rioting) drones have a minus 50% on probe resistance, so that Believers with all the goodies (+3) would become +1.5, and as SMAC always rounds down would be equivalent to a +1, meaning that the cost to subvert would only be 50% higher. But only a plus 3 gives total immunity. googlie Putting a spin on it
Resource Consumer	posted 06-28-99 03:35 PM ET Googlie, Thanks. I'll remember to try that flipper next time Min cuts ut rough. Resource Consumer - A leg spinner before Shane Warne ! -
Natguy	posted 06-28-99 05:11 PM ET Cool! So, if you had lots of probes you could send them out in teams of two, one to incite riots and the other to nab the base?
googlie	posted 06-28-99 06:00 PM ET Yeah - i think that tactic would work (other than on Miriam, where it would be just as hard to incite the rioting). But for anyone else... Thinking aloud, though...the 50% reduction might be on the cost of subverting, maybe not on the probe resistance itself. Still worthwhile as a tactic, though. Googlie
laurens	posted 06-28-99 10:26 PM ET Yup, it can be done. They only have a SE probe bonus of +1, that doesn't mean immunity.
Zoetrope	posted 06-29-99 03:35 AM ET Natguy: yes, if a faction is susceptible to induced riots, then I'll send probe teams to cause a riot, then purchase the base at a reduced cost. This works great, especially when I'm either Morgan or Believers. I love blaming it on another faction, but that reduces the success rate, so I usually just take the odium (and the base). If you have enough money (Morgan), you can take out several bases in one turn. That catastrophe may be enough to make a foe seriously consider surrendering.
Igor	posted 06-29-99 06:40 AM ET Are you sure that Believers are using Fundy? If not it is quite simple to capture their bases, if using FM. In one of my games as UoP I captured (read: bought) 2/3 of Believers bases before they got Fundy. It was great 'coz those bases were in Moonsoon Jungle. I am not sure that it's possible to buy Believers' bases when they under Fundy. Anyway, they have +3 probe. Drone riots affect cost of base and vulnerability, but immunity is immunity.
googlie	posted 06-29-99 02:14 PM ET Fundy gives them the +2 on top of their +1 advantage, making them immune, but if they are pursuing Knowledge then they get a -2 disadvantage. So knoiwledge and fundy cancel each other out. googlie
Hamburger Hacker	posted 06-30-99 01:00 AM ET The Believers can't use the Knowledge value.
googlie	posted 06-30-99 01:22 AM ET Oops, you're right. I'd been looking at a hacked .txt file that had the believers at wealth = 0, reinstating knowledge (as being more representative of an ascetic society) googlie