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Author Topic:   Making rivers...

tribbles posted 06-24-99 09:32 AM ET
Just how does this game determien which way the rivers flow when drillign an aquifer? I thought the direction would be twoards to lowest altitude square... *WRONG* So is there anyway to know before hand which way you river is going to run before drilling?
Series II posted 06-24-99 11:55 AM ET
Experience and educated guess, but you can not be sure. I usually have 6-10 formers drilling to the aquafir at the same time at a SINGLE city. This usually gets me 10-18 river squares.
Plato90s posted 06-24-99 11:55 AM ET
I think it looks for the fastest way to get to an ocean square and then chooses progressively lower elevations to get there. However, if the river hits an area with identical elevation, it'll often spread out a bit and make parallel paths.
Series II posted 06-24-99 11:57 AM ET
Plato, sometimes a river will go UPHILL before going down. I tried to fill up Carland crater once and 2 of the 6 places I drilled to the aquafir went UP and outside the crater.
Zoetrope posted 06-25-99 08:26 AM ET
Hmm, I cannot explain rivers that flow uphill (as opposed to seeming to), but I have a book on the finer points of geography that explains that rivers and their tributaries don't flow in the directions you would naively expect, and that many geographers don't have a good grasp of the physics and natural history of river basins.
Over the weekend, I'll take another look at this book, and pass on its name and other details to the forum. It's a slim-looking volume, but it's jam-packed with intriguing information, carefully explained.
Series II posted 06-25-99 09:01 AM ET
Zeo, I had heard somethign like that before. I am sure that SMAC river model is more along the lines of 'this is the easiest way to program it, so do it this way even it it is not quite accurate'. Than again we are dealing with a diffferent world in SMAC.
I would love a command that would allow you to see where a river would from. It would be one of those nice 'bells and whistles' that us micro managers would like. I would also like to be able to automate formers to do EVERY specific function. I.E. Automatic plant forest, automatic level ground.... Oh, well. When I program a game I will put all these nice features in (and when pigs fly.....)
Series II posted 06-25-99 09:02 AM ET
One more thing. Water level at one end of the Panama Canal is 40 (or 400) feet higher than the other. I have never figured that one out either.
Plato90s posted 06-25-99 09:49 AM ET
The Pacific ocean's water level is not the same as the Carribean sea. If you were to just have an open canal with no locks, the canal would turn into rapid flowing river. The difficulty of traversing that, the cross-contamination of different biospheres, and the erosion effects would be killer.
Rackam posted 06-25-99 11:13 AM ET
I'm not sure where I read this; the extreme weather conditions in the Straits of Magellon (the bottom tip of South America) is caused by the difference in sea level between the Pacific and the Atlantic.
Hydro posted 06-25-99 12:10 PM ET
Actually, rivers can appear to flow uphill. What is actually happening is that they are flowing through a small or an incised river valley across a larger-scale topographic feature. Good examples are the Colorado River in the Grand Canyon (look at a topographic map and, on a large scale, the river flows through broad topographic high) and many rivers in the Appalachian Mountains, which flow through prominent ridges via very narrow valleys. Would new rivers do this? Who knows � it depends on the geography.
On a separate issue: From a hydrologic point of view, the idea of drilling to an aquifer and creating a regional, long-lasting river is ridiculous. Although there are some rivers which �flow out of a mountain�, these are very rare and are restricted local geologic conditions. Just supplying the water needs for a city like Chicago over the last 100 years lowered groundwater levels almost a thousand (!!) feet (and the area has a relatively abundant groundwater supply). Imagine what would happen if you tried to get Mississippi River flow rates from these sources! In general, the dominant source of water in rivers is rainfall, although groundwater does contribute to river volume. Could terraformers be so powerful that they are actually creating river drainage basins? Altering rainfall patterns, too? If so, they are lowering terrain over a large area and the name �drilling to aquifer� is a misnomer.
Am I taking this too seriously? Sure. I should just accept this as part of the game mechanics and suspend disbelief. After all, terraformers can create (or destroy) a mountain (hmmm, seems to be small mass conservation problem here�.). But then again, I am a hydro�.
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Author	Topic: Making rivers...
tribbles	posted 06-24-99 09:32 AM ET Just how does this game determien which way the rivers flow when drillign an aquifer? I thought the direction would be twoards to lowest altitude square... WRONG So is there anyway to know before hand which way you river is going to run before drilling?
Series II	posted 06-24-99 11:55 AM ET Experience and educated guess, but you can not be sure. I usually have 6-10 formers drilling to the aquafir at the same time at a SINGLE city. This usually gets me 10-18 river squares.
Plato90s	posted 06-24-99 11:55 AM ET I think it looks for the fastest way to get to an ocean square and then chooses progressively lower elevations to get there. However, if the river hits an area with identical elevation, it'll often spread out a bit and make parallel paths.
Series II	posted 06-24-99 11:57 AM ET Plato, sometimes a river will go UPHILL before going down. I tried to fill up Carland crater once and 2 of the 6 places I drilled to the aquafir went UP and outside the crater.
Zoetrope	posted 06-25-99 08:26 AM ET Hmm, I cannot explain rivers that flow uphill (as opposed to seeming to), but I have a book on the finer points of geography that explains that rivers and their tributaries don't flow in the directions you would naively expect, and that many geographers don't have a good grasp of the physics and natural history of river basins. Over the weekend, I'll take another look at this book, and pass on its name and other details to the forum. It's a slim-looking volume, but it's jam-packed with intriguing information, carefully explained.
Series II	posted 06-25-99 09:01 AM ET Zeo, I had heard somethign like that before. I am sure that SMAC river model is more along the lines of 'this is the easiest way to program it, so do it this way even it it is not quite accurate'. Than again we are dealing with a diffferent world in SMAC. I would love a command that would allow you to see where a river would from. It would be one of those nice 'bells and whistles' that us micro managers would like. I would also like to be able to automate formers to do EVERY specific function. I.E. Automatic plant forest, automatic level ground.... Oh, well. When I program a game I will put all these nice features in (and when pigs fly.....)
Series II	posted 06-25-99 09:02 AM ET One more thing. Water level at one end of the Panama Canal is 40 (or 400) feet higher than the other. I have never figured that one out either.
Plato90s	posted 06-25-99 09:49 AM ET The Pacific ocean's water level is not the same as the Carribean sea. If you were to just have an open canal with no locks, the canal would turn into rapid flowing river. The difficulty of traversing that, the cross-contamination of different biospheres, and the erosion effects would be killer.
Rackam	posted 06-25-99 11:13 AM ET I'm not sure where I read this; the extreme weather conditions in the Straits of Magellon (the bottom tip of South America) is caused by the difference in sea level between the Pacific and the Atlantic.
Hydro	posted 06-25-99 12:10 PM ET Actually, rivers can appear to flow uphill. What is actually happening is that they are flowing through a small or an incised river valley across a larger-scale topographic feature. Good examples are the Colorado River in the Grand Canyon (look at a topographic map and, on a large scale, the river flows through broad topographic high) and many rivers in the Appalachian Mountains, which flow through prominent ridges via very narrow valleys. Would new rivers do this? Who knows � it depends on the geography. On a separate issue: From a hydrologic point of view, the idea of drilling to an aquifer and creating a regional, long-lasting river is ridiculous. Although there are some rivers which �flow out of a mountain�, these are very rare and are restricted local geologic conditions. Just supplying the water needs for a city like Chicago over the last 100 years lowered groundwater levels almost a thousand (!!) feet (and the area has a relatively abundant groundwater supply). Imagine what would happen if you tried to get Mississippi River flow rates from these sources! In general, the dominant source of water in rivers is rainfall, although groundwater does contribute to river volume. Could terraformers be so powerful that they are actually creating river drainage basins? Altering rainfall patterns, too? If so, they are lowering terrain over a large area and the name �drilling to aquifer� is a misnomer. Am I taking this too seriously? Sure. I should just accept this as part of the game mechanics and suspend disbelief. After all, terraformers can create (or destroy) a mountain (hmmm, seems to be small mass conservation problem here�.). But then again, I am a hydro�.