what numbers do a punishment sphere change?

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Author Topic:   what numbers do a punishment sphere change?

korn469 posted 06-18-99 08:08 PM ET
exactly what number does a punishment sphere change? the book says it decreases labs by 1/2. so how exactly does that effect your research? would it be the same as having a negative 5 in research? does it just effect the lab bonus? how exactly does it work? ok for example you have zero on the research scale besides your headquaters it has three structures in it. a punishment sphere a biology lab and a network node you're taking in 8 energy total and 4 energy is going to your labs and you have a librarian in your city.
ok the biology lab supposedly provided +2 research. the network node supposedly increases research at the base by 50% and the punishment shpere supposed to decrease labs by 1/2. the librarian provides +3 bonus to labs. so how exactly does the punishment sphere effect your base? i have been playing around with them lately and it seems to have no effect at all. i am begining to think it is a bug. please if anyone knows the answers (like the formula on how it calculates the punishment sphere into research) i will greatly appreciate it.
korn469
laurens posted 06-18-99 08:45 PM ET
Yup, got to admit that there is some kind of misnomer in calculations here, but the nearest I have got to is still the logical way (differing by only 4 or 5 research points):
1) Add up all the numerical pluses first (such as biology lab, +2).
2) Followed by the percentages (such as nodes, fusion labs, hospitals).
So if we have a current numerical value of 10 from step 1, and you've got a node (50%) and hosital (50%) running, the total is now 20.
3) Don't forget about the other bonuses from secret projects too.
4) Here, the punishment sphere halves the value you have obtained so far.
***Punishment spheres do not really have any effect towards the midgame/endgame when all your cities (or should I say metropolitans?) are generating so much research output and halving it isn't too detrimental. Try out the UoP with punishment cities to get a clearer view.
My thoughts
korn469 posted 06-19-99 12:24 AM ET
laurens
i built a punishment sphere in one of my cities and it didn't chane the research valu total and nothing happened when i sold it. my city had 53 research before during and after i sold it i was wondering what was going on and i suspected a bug
korn
laurens posted 06-19-99 12:40 PM ET
korn469
Seriously, I'm not sure whether there's a bug here.
Perhaps the bug comes when you have certain research bonuses up and running and certain advanced lab-boosting facilities up and running.
Coz the last time I tried to find out, I took down the research output of 4 of my cities still in the early building stages (with node and biology lab) - the punishment sphere really lowered it drastically.
I didn't check for the advanced cities though, and would hope to find out soon.
korn469 posted 06-19-99 02:34 PM ET
laurens
yeah i changed my mind, but the reason i changed my mind is i found where the punishment penalty comes into play and it's a hidden number. i wrote a VERY VERY detailed discription of how the research system works except i lost my internet connection and i restarted my computer before i saved it from the wordpad and lost it all! ARGGG!
ok but here's how punishment spheres work. to make it simple i'm basing this on one city. take the total research number from your city (that's the raw number plus the bonus points) then multiply that number by the research penalty/bonus for your factions social engineering. this gives you the tech per turn number on the F2 screen. now if you have a punishment sphere the game multiplies the tech per turn number by 1/2 when it adds it to the total tech accumulated in the F2 screen. so when you have a punishment sphere in your city, you actually are only going to add half the number it has in tech per turn. try it it works. but in my game it's basing the turns till discover on the tech per turn number before it's modified by the punishment sphere. so it's saying i'm going to discover a tech twice as quick as what i really am. so i did find a bug, just not a big one. but all i got to say unless you know where and what to look for you're not going to see how a punishment sphere effects you.
korn469
laurens posted 06-19-99 08:31 PM ET
korn469 (latest update, also in your thread of the "Game")
I also wrote a more detailed explanation over in your thread over in "Game"
To summarize, I saw this fault in v1, which is ever so long ago...
Now playing the US v3, it seemed that my research output was affected, at all.
Now, time to catch up on my sleep...zzz
laurens posted 06-19-99 08:33 PM ET
typo error...many apologies
korn469 (latest update, also in your thread of the "Game")
I also wrote a more detailed explanation over in your thread over in "Game" <Picture>
To summarize, I saw this fault in v1, which is ever so long ago...
Now playing the US v3, it seemed that my research output WASN'T affected, at all.
Now, time to catch up on my sleep...zzz
jimmytrick posted 06-19-99 08:44 PM ET
I have verified Korn's work. P-sphere does halve research in base. Base info screen simply does not show it. On the lab status screen, the tech generated does not show it.
But, if you track the tech accum. figures you will see that the tech is being subtracted. Korn is on target. P-spheres do halve research.
laurens posted 06-20-99 06:44 AM ET
jimmytrick:
how about the "year to get to breakthrough"? Coz mine remained unchanged.
Series II posted 06-21-99 08:07 AM ET
Could punishment spheres have their research detriment cancelled out by some other facility? I.E. Fusion Lab cancells out the Punishment sphere 1/2 research.
korn469 posted 06-21-99 08:29 AM ET
this is the punishment sphere bug. the time until you complete your research is based on the total tech per turn before it is modified by the punishment sphere and it's saying you'll finish researching tech faster than what you really are. the punishment spheres work as advertised but the F2 screen isn't taking that into account when it tells you when you will make your next discovery. in fact there is no place that the punishment sphere shows what it is doing the only way you know they are working like they are supposed to is to look at the actual number that is added to the tech accumulated. it is lower than what the tech per turn says it is. that's the bug.
punishmeant spheres also take effect last, everything this halved with a punishment sphere...i repeat everything is cut in half for that city
korn469
Series II posted 06-21-99 01:10 PM ET
So, is it correct that in cities far from your HQ that produce no energy you would loose nothing by having punishment spheres?
If a city produces no energy it produces no research, even with lab facilities. Right?
korn469 posted 06-21-99 02:16 PM ET
series II
no that's wrong a city far from your head quaters CAN produce research, if you build a biology or have specialist who makes research(librarian, engineer, thinker, transend) then your city can produce research even if it's taking the max hit form inefficency however unless this city was very large (22+) it probably wouldn't produce very much research but even then any research it did producewould be cut in half by the punishmeant sphere
remember research works like this
city divide their energy between psych economy and labs
takes the labs energy and modifies t by any builds with a percentage change and puts that in bonus also put any fixed research points into bonus.
adds those numbers together and then multiply that number by the your factions Social engineering research modifier (example: if you have everything at default then the multiply belivers by .8, the university by 1.2 and all other factions by 1) that will give you the techs per turn. then if you have a punishmeant sphere multiply that number by 1/2
oh yeah and if you do build a punishment sphere you might as well build a genejack factory in that city for extra minerals
korn469
Series II posted 06-21-99 03:01 PM ET
So inefficiency only effects economy?
I do see where a specialist could produce research, but the city screen seems to indicate that that city is netting no energy.
I looked at the city list on the science screen and many of my cities are producing no research. This screen might be wrong.
korn469 posted 06-21-99 04:41 PM ET
series II
no city energy intake-energy lost due to inefficency is how much energy you have to put into economy, pysch, and labs
obviously if you are producing no energy then you won't have any energy allocated to economy, pysch, or labs...in that case you can only get bonus research points from a specialist (librian, engineer, thinker, transend) or from a biology lab. unless you have alot of specialists you won't be getting very much research at all
korn469
Series II posted 06-21-99 04:51 PM ET
Got it! SO the big question is what to do with those useless cities that you capture that are so far from your HQ that all energy is lost.
I think I'll go start that thread.
sandworm posted 08-10-99 05:45 PM ET
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Author	Topic: what numbers do a punishment sphere change?
korn469	posted 06-18-99 08:08 PM ET exactly what number does a punishment sphere change? the book says it decreases labs by 1/2. so how exactly does that effect your research? would it be the same as having a negative 5 in research? does it just effect the lab bonus? how exactly does it work? ok for example you have zero on the research scale besides your headquaters it has three structures in it. a punishment sphere a biology lab and a network node you're taking in 8 energy total and 4 energy is going to your labs and you have a librarian in your city. ok the biology lab supposedly provided +2 research. the network node supposedly increases research at the base by 50% and the punishment shpere supposed to decrease labs by 1/2. the librarian provides +3 bonus to labs. so how exactly does the punishment sphere effect your base? i have been playing around with them lately and it seems to have no effect at all. i am begining to think it is a bug. please if anyone knows the answers (like the formula on how it calculates the punishment sphere into research) i will greatly appreciate it. korn469
laurens	posted 06-18-99 08:45 PM ET Yup, got to admit that there is some kind of misnomer in calculations here, but the nearest I have got to is still the logical way (differing by only 4 or 5 research points): 1) Add up all the numerical pluses first (such as biology lab, +2). 2) Followed by the percentages (such as nodes, fusion labs, hospitals). So if we have a current numerical value of 10 from step 1, and you've got a node (50%) and hosital (50%) running, the total is now 20. 3) Don't forget about the other bonuses from secret projects too. 4) Here, the punishment sphere halves the value you have obtained so far. ***Punishment spheres do not really have any effect towards the midgame/endgame when all your cities (or should I say metropolitans?) are generating so much research output and halving it isn't too detrimental. Try out the UoP with punishment cities to get a clearer view. My thoughts
korn469	posted 06-19-99 12:24 AM ET laurens i built a punishment sphere in one of my cities and it didn't chane the research valu total and nothing happened when i sold it. my city had 53 research before during and after i sold it i was wondering what was going on and i suspected a bug korn
laurens	posted 06-19-99 12:40 PM ET korn469 Seriously, I'm not sure whether there's a bug here. Perhaps the bug comes when you have certain research bonuses up and running and certain advanced lab-boosting facilities up and running. Coz the last time I tried to find out, I took down the research output of 4 of my cities still in the early building stages (with node and biology lab) - the punishment sphere really lowered it drastically. I didn't check for the advanced cities though, and would hope to find out soon.
korn469	posted 06-19-99 02:34 PM ET laurens yeah i changed my mind, but the reason i changed my mind is i found where the punishment penalty comes into play and it's a hidden number. i wrote a VERY VERY detailed discription of how the research system works except i lost my internet connection and i restarted my computer before i saved it from the wordpad and lost it all! ARGGG! ok but here's how punishment spheres work. to make it simple i'm basing this on one city. take the total research number from your city (that's the raw number plus the bonus points) then multiply that number by the research penalty/bonus for your factions social engineering. this gives you the tech per turn number on the F2 screen. now if you have a punishment sphere the game multiplies the tech per turn number by 1/2 when it adds it to the total tech accumulated in the F2 screen. so when you have a punishment sphere in your city, you actually are only going to add half the number it has in tech per turn. try it it works. but in my game it's basing the turns till discover on the tech per turn number before it's modified by the punishment sphere. so it's saying i'm going to discover a tech twice as quick as what i really am. so i did find a bug, just not a big one. but all i got to say unless you know where and what to look for you're not going to see how a punishment sphere effects you. korn469
laurens	posted 06-19-99 08:31 PM ET korn469 (latest update, also in your thread of the "Game") I also wrote a more detailed explanation over in your thread over in "Game" To summarize, I saw this fault in v1, which is ever so long ago... Now playing the US v3, it seemed that my research output was affected, at all. Now, time to catch up on my sleep...zzz
laurens	posted 06-19-99 08:33 PM ET typo error...many apologies korn469 (latest update, also in your thread of the "Game") I also wrote a more detailed explanation over in your thread over in "Game" <Picture> To summarize, I saw this fault in v1, which is ever so long ago... Now playing the US v3, it seemed that my research output WASN'T affected, at all. Now, time to catch up on my sleep...zzz
jimmytrick	posted 06-19-99 08:44 PM ET I have verified Korn's work. P-sphere does halve research in base. Base info screen simply does not show it. On the lab status screen, the tech generated does not show it. But, if you track the tech accum. figures you will see that the tech is being subtracted. Korn is on target. P-spheres do halve research.
laurens	posted 06-20-99 06:44 AM ET jimmytrick: how about the "year to get to breakthrough"? Coz mine remained unchanged.
Series II	posted 06-21-99 08:07 AM ET Could punishment spheres have their research detriment cancelled out by some other facility? I.E. Fusion Lab cancells out the Punishment sphere 1/2 research.
korn469	posted 06-21-99 08:29 AM ET this is the punishment sphere bug. the time until you complete your research is based on the total tech per turn before it is modified by the punishment sphere and it's saying you'll finish researching tech faster than what you really are. the punishment spheres work as advertised but the F2 screen isn't taking that into account when it tells you when you will make your next discovery. in fact there is no place that the punishment sphere shows what it is doing the only way you know they are working like they are supposed to is to look at the actual number that is added to the tech accumulated. it is lower than what the tech per turn says it is. that's the bug. punishmeant spheres also take effect last, everything this halved with a punishment sphere...i repeat everything is cut in half for that city korn469
Series II	posted 06-21-99 01:10 PM ET So, is it correct that in cities far from your HQ that produce no energy you would loose nothing by having punishment spheres? If a city produces no energy it produces no research, even with lab facilities. Right?
korn469	posted 06-21-99 02:16 PM ET series II no that's wrong a city far from your head quaters CAN produce research, if you build a biology or have specialist who makes research(librarian, engineer, thinker, transend) then your city can produce research even if it's taking the max hit form inefficency however unless this city was very large (22+) it probably wouldn't produce very much research but even then any research it did producewould be cut in half by the punishmeant sphere remember research works like this city divide their energy between psych economy and labs takes the labs energy and modifies t by any builds with a percentage change and puts that in bonus also put any fixed research points into bonus. adds those numbers together and then multiply that number by the your factions Social engineering research modifier (example: if you have everything at default then the multiply belivers by .8, the university by 1.2 and all other factions by 1) that will give you the techs per turn. then if you have a punishmeant sphere multiply that number by 1/2 oh yeah and if you do build a punishment sphere you might as well build a genejack factory in that city for extra minerals korn469
Series II	posted 06-21-99 03:01 PM ET So inefficiency only effects economy? I do see where a specialist could produce research, but the city screen seems to indicate that that city is netting no energy. I looked at the city list on the science screen and many of my cities are producing no research. This screen might be wrong.
korn469	posted 06-21-99 04:41 PM ET series II no city energy intake-energy lost due to inefficency is how much energy you have to put into economy, pysch, and labs obviously if you are producing no energy then you won't have any energy allocated to economy, pysch, or labs...in that case you can only get bonus research points from a specialist (librian, engineer, thinker, transend) or from a biology lab. unless you have alot of specialists you won't be getting very much research at all korn469
Series II	posted 06-21-99 04:51 PM ET Got it! SO the big question is what to do with those useless cities that you capture that are so far from your HQ that all energy is lost. I think I'll go start that thread.
sandworm	posted 08-10-99 05:45 PM ET x