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Author Topic:   Surrendered Factions

CoolBot posted 06-18-99 12:21 PM ET
Is there any way to get surrenedered factions to grow, so that they can actually help you in a war?
Krushala posted 06-18-99 01:17 PM ET
Give them all your cities except for your HQ. They should be able to help you in a war. Not recommended. The miniscule trade you get from them is the only reason I don't completely conquer them. I never count on them to help me in a war. Usually they give my stupid obsolete units I have to remove from my design workshop.
Veracitas posted 06-18-99 02:44 PM ET
Why, praytell, would you want to give them ALL but one of your cities? Then, you would be just as good as if you had been the conquered faction. And potential units that could have been yours in the incapable hands of the AI? Hmm...I do not follow your logic....
--Veracitas
ZuluMenace25 posted 06-18-99 04:28 PM ET
Can someone please explain surrenderd factions to me. Three times I have had a faction surrender to me then immediately after I ask them for an outrageous amount of gold. They refuse and we eventually declare vendetta on each other. If I want them as a permanent vassal state like in the original post that will fight wars for me what do I do?
Is there a way that a faction will surrender and Never declare vendetta on you?
ZuluMenace25 posted 06-18-99 04:30 PM ET
Can someone please explain surrenderd factions to me. Three times I have had a faction surrender to me then immediately after I ask them for an outrageous amount of gold. They refuse and we eventually declare vendetta on each other. If I want them as a permanent vassal state like in the original post that will fight wars for me what do I do?
Is there a way that a faction will surrender and Never declare vendetta on you?
Krushala posted 06-18-99 07:53 PM ET
Uhh I was just kidding about giving the ai bases.
Anyway the surrendered factions tend to break the pact if they become more powerful than you. This shouldn't happen. I never let them surrender until they have 1 or 2 bases left. And these will be their frontier bases with no science production. I've had factions surender with 10 or 12 bases left just because we had the same SE choice. But I almost always refuse. I prefer to shatter their infrastructure to prevent rebuilding.
laurens posted 06-18-99 08:49 PM ET
After getting the faction as your vassal try not to commit any atrocities against them. That's one of the safest bet.
Furthermore, you might want to switch to their preferred SE choice to 'please' them...
jimmytrick posted 06-18-99 09:23 PM ET
Playing transcend, aggresive AI, I can't get factions to surrender. I wonder if anyone can tell me if it is because of transcend or the agressive AI setting.
I know about the SE thing. This is not the prob. (i think)
Plato90s posted 06-18-99 10:53 PM ET
Factions will surrender at Transcent, Ironman, Aggressive AI. The factors affecting AI surrender include SE choice, your reputation [no one surrenders to a despicable leader], whether you've committed atrocities, whether they are fighting other wars, and the disparity between your faction and theirs. Speed of conquest also seem to make a difference. If you hit the AI hard and fast, they surrender more readily than a slow, drawn out war. Shock effect, I guess.
The surrendered factions are useful for two reasons - guaranteed trade and Planetary Council votes. They won't automatically vote for the council proposals, but it's a lot cheaper to bribe them [a few hundred credits vs. a few thousand] to vote your way. Surrendered factions are required to vote for you in Governor and Supreme Leader votes. In one game, the 2 candidates for Governor was myself and a surrendered faction. Miriam didn't even dare to vote for herself.
As for how you manage the surrendered factions, keep in mind they are like a leashed mad dog. Don't kick him unless you want to be bitten and don't loosen the leash.
The surrendered faction can't rebel unless it becomes more powerful than you or you make "unreasonable demands". Telling them to turn over large amts of cash or their best base falls into that category. Just treat them like a Pact brother. The biggest difference is that your vassal factions will more readily agree to attack cities you designate as targets while Pact Brothers may demur. Vassal factions also obey more often when you tell them to stop fighting a Vendetta. This is sometimes necessary when two of your vassals start fighting each other, using their free access through your MagRail network to get at each other.
gruedragon posted 06-19-99 12:36 AM ET
In my current game as the Hive, Miriam surrendered after I had her down to four cities. A few turns later sunspots occurred, cutting off communications. I proceeded to completely wipe out Lal, who had earlier declared vendetta against me. During that war I started having major drone problems, especially in the captured Believer cities, and since I didn't want to deal with them at the time I nerve stapled them. The other factions couldn't find out due to the sunspots, and I figured nerve stapling is expected of Yang.
Anyway, a couple of turns after the sunspots went away, Miriam, still with her four pathetic bases, somehow found out I had nerve stapled her former citizens. Either that or she and Lal had a thing going and she wanted revenge. So she declared Vendetta. By the end of the next turn, I had killed the bitch.
rem63 posted 06-19-99 05:00 AM ET
If I have the space elevator, and a small surrendered faction, I usually use a drop colony pod, and set up a base on a small island far away from everyone. It helps them grow a bit.
Or sometimes if I conquered a base in a crappy area, (bad production values) I'll hand that over to them.
korn469 posted 06-19-99 08:13 AM ET
surrendered factions must be kept strong if you are to achieve full benefit from them. there are two things you want to happen with surrended factions. you want them to keep the same number of bases as you, no more no less, you want their bases to be fairly large and you want them to keep the same tech level as you.
one game i was playing as a custom faction and i had made Lal, Santiago, and Morgan surrender to me and i was fighting against the belivers. this is one of the only times i have ever been truly impressed with the A.I.'s ability to wage a war. i hab a base producing alot of minerals on mount planet and the believers were on an island just to the southwest of me. i was massinging my forces on the other side of my empire preparing for an amphibious invavasion of the belivers when suddenly the belivers took my lightly defended base beside of Mt. Planet. my capital a mere four spaces away and it fell to the belivers also. i was completely suprised by this and i reloaded wanting to know where the invasion came from. the belivers had actually constructed a land bridge from their island to mine. i gave orders for santiago, lal, and morgan to attack the closest city to the land bridge and this time they actually defended my base from the belivers attack until i ould move my troops to the battlefield and kill the believers
but i digress the reason you want the surrendered faction to have the same amount of bases as you is commerce, and the greater their population the greater number of votes you'll have in planetary elections because they will lways vote for you. as long as you are planetary governor no matter what your commerce rate or city size or economy is you'll always make at least one energy from commerce. secondly as long as the surrendered A.I. has the same tech level as you then every discovery they make is a new technology. and if you talk to them after they discover a new technology they will always give it to you.
you can completely extort the A.I. for money, if you have significantly more military power than they do they will give you all thier money in one or two demands. as long as they enoough of your threats i'll give you x amount of money and not a penny more demand again and they will give you the exact amount of money they gave you before until you get to a very low number (always a number lower than what they were giving you)
never give tech to your surrendered factions always sell them your tech. and here is the art to managing the surrendered factions tech. wait till they are one turn away from making a discovery. then demand all of their money. then sell them all of your tech. they will go into negative numbers but you will still get the cash. and the next turn they will have discovered a new tech. this can help speed your research and increase your energy reserves
here's another story. in that same game my custom faction had fallen behind yang, i made the belivers surrender to me also and i had got the gians down to just a few cities bug yang had gotten enormous. my custom faction had bad growth and so i was growing slow. Yang had started in the Monsoon jungle and grew very quickly. i kept on giving my tech to the surrended factions, but i had forgot that yang had the planetary datalinks. yang managed to keep a techhnology lead in that game and he got the hunter seeker algorithm. that was the only game ever where i HAD to use PBs. next game i played i made every one but morgan surrender to me, and i let morgan build the planetary datalinks. then not only did i get tech from the surrendered factions in the method prescribed above, but morgan also would discover new tech since i gave him all the tech i had through the datalinks. then i'd probe him and get that tech. i also found out in that game that for mere infrastructure destroying bombers, the most bang for you buck comes out of clean chaos needlejets with fusion reactors.
remember be kind to those you conquer it will more than work out for you in the end. i know i made ruthless conquer mistakes before. the first game i ever had a faction surrened to me was the UoP when i was santiago (have you noticed but the A.I. seems more likely to surrender to santiago than anyone else) and i made the UoP give me all their bases except for their capitol and then every turn i would sabatage their buildings and put them in drone riots. then i would assassinate their researchers. he spent over a hundred years researching nonlinear mathematics. it did me no good to subjegate him like that. don't make that mistake.
korn469
p.s. their is a bug with surrendered factions in that if they don't have a headquarters they will give you all their bases but they won't be eliminated. and later on you can give them a base back.
MichaeltheGreat posted 06-19-99 11:53 AM ET
I've had an 18 city 70 fighting unit Hive ?!?!? faction surrender to me, and stay allied to the end of the game, simply because I used ships and planes to wipe a ton of units out, and Miriam and Santiago declared war on Yang at the same time. I didn't take a single hive city - he just caved because of the high unit losses and the second war. This was at transcend level.
I never extorted anything from Yang, and 18 cities worth of trade was quite nice, and his needlejets were preety helpful, since he flew them to my bases which were closer to Miriam and Santiago. This was bizarre though - I really didn't have the ability to invade him - just shore bombardment, transport plinking, and airstrikes.
RedFred posted 06-19-99 12:18 PM ET
Everybody has their own style in dealing with surrendered factions. My preferred style is to accept surrender as soon as it is offered.
One of the reasons I don't wait until after conquering a bunch of their cities is that the conquered cities often lack infrastructure and are poorly located. IMHO, conquered cities are more trouble than they are worth unless they have a cool SP.
After appealing to them to stop fighting my other pact siblings, I pretty much let the surrendered faction do its own thing. Most important to me are the increased trade and having one less enemy.
As well, they will voluntarily support me in most wars, gift me any tech they get and gift units. Sometimes I get so many gifted units popping up at the same spot I can build SPs primarily with disbanded units.
Stay noble, unsurpassed and don't be rude to your surrendered faction and they shouldn't turn on you.
Although, I wonder if I am getting set up in my current game. First the Spartans surrendered to me without me firing a shot. Then it was Yang, who decided to fight a low grade war with me. I took over a couple of his more annoying encroaching sea bases and he unexpectedly surrendered. His might was potent, number 3 on the depth chart. Then Lal launched a sneak attack on me. I got as far as his border and was about to attack my first PK unit when he threw in the towel.
That is three surrendered factions and I haven't even fought that much. Not sure what the AI is up to. BTW, it is a TI game, but not with the aggressive AI setting.
-R
CoolBot posted 06-19-99 01:55 PM ET
Lal has surrendered to me, and has only one city. What I really want him to do is to expand a little. Will he do it on his own, or do have to give a colony pod or city to him?
Boylard posted 06-19-99 02:46 PM ET
I have just finished a TI game playing as morgan with Yang as my surrendered pact brother. After a brief war with the gaians (singularity drop blink hovertanks and singularity copters) I captured the empath guild and this gave me enough votes to become supreme leader, so I called the council to vote.
I won by a mile but Yang decided to go against the decision. I had to conquer him of course but the point is he had voted for me in the election and he had surrendered to me earlier in the game. The only atoricities comitted during the game were comitted by Yang and Lady Deirdre, who both tried unsuccesfully to planet bust me.
RedFred posted 06-19-99 06:19 PM ET
Sorry, I guess I rambled off topic. If your surrendered faction only has one city you don't have much of an asset right now.
You have to consider whether building up the surrendered faction is worth the effort. Depending on the location, they may never build another city on their own. I prefer to keep my colony pods for my own faction.
If you conquer some cities on the edge of your empire you may want to gift them to your new pals. Let them worry about rebuilding the infrastructure. They can often act as a buffer to soak up an attack from the faction you are still fighting.
If you still want to go ahead and build cities for them, do it half way around planet where planting your own cities would be suboptimal due to inefficiency & supply line problems.
I never bother with the Datalinks SP. If you don't have it, or if you have spoils of war on, be careful about gifting tech to the surrendered faction.
-R
Plato90s posted 06-19-99 11:14 PM ET
There's always a practical benefit of having surrendered factions - council votes. Not in the planetary governor votes, but in the proposal votes like commerce rate, solar shade, etc... Every faction gets only one vote, regardless of population. Having a couple of conquered factions in your pocket is a VERY good thing to have. Even a single-city vassal faction can have as much of a say in whether to launch a solar shade as you do.
Krushala posted 06-20-99 09:34 AM ET
I haven't checked this out but it seems like the score gained from commerce from surrendered factions is insignificant compared to the poplulation gained from conquering all of their cities except one. If you have cloning vats it's even more important. I can care less about commerce at this point. I prefer to shatter every faction on the planet before I transcend.
Series II posted 06-21-99 08:13 AM ET
Conqured factions are good because the commecre you get from them is at your biggest cities. These are usually your science capitols. 5 energy commerce at a prime science city could lead to 50-100 more research (base facilities and SPs). I agree that pop scores more points, but surrendered factions having 3-4 cities is a good thing.
Also, you can sometimes get a lot more commerce income from returning their cities that keeping them and building them up. YOur inefficience many times eats all the energy these distant bases produce, but if you return to surrendered factions you start getting commerce income from them (assumming the surrendered faction still have a HQ or rebuilds one).
In general population is nice, but a city that produces no energy (and just drains your energy from other cities) is only worth about 1/2 of a 'real city'.
Plato90s posted 06-21-99 10:02 AM ET
Besides, who really want to manage those itsy-bitsy bases? I usually give them away for the extra commerce or just put them on Governor and only allow the AI governor to build base facilities.
Series II posted 06-21-99 01:36 PM ET
Another slight factor with surrender factions is that they contribute to over all mineral production and can help push the limit ot where global warming happens.
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Author	Topic: Surrendered Factions
CoolBot	posted 06-18-99 12:21 PM ET Is there any way to get surrenedered factions to grow, so that they can actually help you in a war?
Krushala	posted 06-18-99 01:17 PM ET Give them all your cities except for your HQ. They should be able to help you in a war. Not recommended. The miniscule trade you get from them is the only reason I don't completely conquer them. I never count on them to help me in a war. Usually they give my stupid obsolete units I have to remove from my design workshop.
Veracitas	posted 06-18-99 02:44 PM ET Why, praytell, would you want to give them ALL but one of your cities? Then, you would be just as good as if you had been the conquered faction. And potential units that could have been yours in the incapable hands of the AI? Hmm...I do not follow your logic.... --Veracitas
ZuluMenace25	posted 06-18-99 04:28 PM ET Can someone please explain surrenderd factions to me. Three times I have had a faction surrender to me then immediately after I ask them for an outrageous amount of gold. They refuse and we eventually declare vendetta on each other. If I want them as a permanent vassal state like in the original post that will fight wars for me what do I do? Is there a way that a faction will surrender and Never declare vendetta on you?
ZuluMenace25	posted 06-18-99 04:30 PM ET Can someone please explain surrenderd factions to me. Three times I have had a faction surrender to me then immediately after I ask them for an outrageous amount of gold. They refuse and we eventually declare vendetta on each other. If I want them as a permanent vassal state like in the original post that will fight wars for me what do I do? Is there a way that a faction will surrender and Never declare vendetta on you?
Krushala	posted 06-18-99 07:53 PM ET Uhh I was just kidding about giving the ai bases. Anyway the surrendered factions tend to break the pact if they become more powerful than you. This shouldn't happen. I never let them surrender until they have 1 or 2 bases left. And these will be their frontier bases with no science production. I've had factions surender with 10 or 12 bases left just because we had the same SE choice. But I almost always refuse. I prefer to shatter their infrastructure to prevent rebuilding.
laurens	posted 06-18-99 08:49 PM ET After getting the faction as your vassal try not to commit any atrocities against them. That's one of the safest bet. Furthermore, you might want to switch to their preferred SE choice to 'please' them...
jimmytrick	posted 06-18-99 09:23 PM ET Playing transcend, aggresive AI, I can't get factions to surrender. I wonder if anyone can tell me if it is because of transcend or the agressive AI setting. I know about the SE thing. This is not the prob. (i think)
Plato90s	posted 06-18-99 10:53 PM ET Factions will surrender at Transcent, Ironman, Aggressive AI. The factors affecting AI surrender include SE choice, your reputation [no one surrenders to a despicable leader], whether you've committed atrocities, whether they are fighting other wars, and the disparity between your faction and theirs. Speed of conquest also seem to make a difference. If you hit the AI hard and fast, they surrender more readily than a slow, drawn out war. Shock effect, I guess. The surrendered factions are useful for two reasons - guaranteed trade and Planetary Council votes. They won't automatically vote for the council proposals, but it's a lot cheaper to bribe them [a few hundred credits vs. a few thousand] to vote your way. Surrendered factions are required to vote for you in Governor and Supreme Leader votes. In one game, the 2 candidates for Governor was myself and a surrendered faction. Miriam didn't even dare to vote for herself. As for how you manage the surrendered factions, keep in mind they are like a leashed mad dog. Don't kick him unless you want to be bitten and don't loosen the leash. The surrendered faction can't rebel unless it becomes more powerful than you or you make "unreasonable demands". Telling them to turn over large amts of cash or their best base falls into that category. Just treat them like a Pact brother. The biggest difference is that your vassal factions will more readily agree to attack cities you designate as targets while Pact Brothers may demur. Vassal factions also obey more often when you tell them to stop fighting a Vendetta. This is sometimes necessary when two of your vassals start fighting each other, using their free access through your MagRail network to get at each other.
gruedragon	posted 06-19-99 12:36 AM ET In my current game as the Hive, Miriam surrendered after I had her down to four cities. A few turns later sunspots occurred, cutting off communications. I proceeded to completely wipe out Lal, who had earlier declared vendetta against me. During that war I started having major drone problems, especially in the captured Believer cities, and since I didn't want to deal with them at the time I nerve stapled them. The other factions couldn't find out due to the sunspots, and I figured nerve stapling is expected of Yang. Anyway, a couple of turns after the sunspots went away, Miriam, still with her four pathetic bases, somehow found out I had nerve stapled her former citizens. Either that or she and Lal had a thing going and she wanted revenge. So she declared Vendetta. By the end of the next turn, I had killed the bitch.
rem63	posted 06-19-99 05:00 AM ET If I have the space elevator, and a small surrendered faction, I usually use a drop colony pod, and set up a base on a small island far away from everyone. It helps them grow a bit. Or sometimes if I conquered a base in a crappy area, (bad production values) I'll hand that over to them.
korn469	posted 06-19-99 08:13 AM ET surrendered factions must be kept strong if you are to achieve full benefit from them. there are two things you want to happen with surrended factions. you want them to keep the same number of bases as you, no more no less, you want their bases to be fairly large and you want them to keep the same tech level as you. one game i was playing as a custom faction and i had made Lal, Santiago, and Morgan surrender to me and i was fighting against the belivers. this is one of the only times i have ever been truly impressed with the A.I.'s ability to wage a war. i hab a base producing alot of minerals on mount planet and the believers were on an island just to the southwest of me. i was massinging my forces on the other side of my empire preparing for an amphibious invavasion of the belivers when suddenly the belivers took my lightly defended base beside of Mt. Planet. my capital a mere four spaces away and it fell to the belivers also. i was completely suprised by this and i reloaded wanting to know where the invasion came from. the belivers had actually constructed a land bridge from their island to mine. i gave orders for santiago, lal, and morgan to attack the closest city to the land bridge and this time they actually defended my base from the belivers attack until i ould move my troops to the battlefield and kill the believers but i digress the reason you want the surrendered faction to have the same amount of bases as you is commerce, and the greater their population the greater number of votes you'll have in planetary elections because they will lways vote for you. as long as you are planetary governor no matter what your commerce rate or city size or economy is you'll always make at least one energy from commerce. secondly as long as the surrendered A.I. has the same tech level as you then every discovery they make is a new technology. and if you talk to them after they discover a new technology they will always give it to you. you can completely extort the A.I. for money, if you have significantly more military power than they do they will give you all thier money in one or two demands. as long as they enoough of your threats i'll give you x amount of money and not a penny more demand again and they will give you the exact amount of money they gave you before until you get to a very low number (always a number lower than what they were giving you) never give tech to your surrendered factions always sell them your tech. and here is the art to managing the surrendered factions tech. wait till they are one turn away from making a discovery. then demand all of their money. then sell them all of your tech. they will go into negative numbers but you will still get the cash. and the next turn they will have discovered a new tech. this can help speed your research and increase your energy reserves here's another story. in that same game my custom faction had fallen behind yang, i made the belivers surrender to me also and i had got the gians down to just a few cities bug yang had gotten enormous. my custom faction had bad growth and so i was growing slow. Yang had started in the Monsoon jungle and grew very quickly. i kept on giving my tech to the surrended factions, but i had forgot that yang had the planetary datalinks. yang managed to keep a techhnology lead in that game and he got the hunter seeker algorithm. that was the only game ever where i HAD to use PBs. next game i played i made every one but morgan surrender to me, and i let morgan build the planetary datalinks. then not only did i get tech from the surrendered factions in the method prescribed above, but morgan also would discover new tech since i gave him all the tech i had through the datalinks. then i'd probe him and get that tech. i also found out in that game that for mere infrastructure destroying bombers, the most bang for you buck comes out of clean chaos needlejets with fusion reactors. remember be kind to those you conquer it will more than work out for you in the end. i know i made ruthless conquer mistakes before. the first game i ever had a faction surrened to me was the UoP when i was santiago (have you noticed but the A.I. seems more likely to surrender to santiago than anyone else) and i made the UoP give me all their bases except for their capitol and then every turn i would sabatage their buildings and put them in drone riots. then i would assassinate their researchers. he spent over a hundred years researching nonlinear mathematics. it did me no good to subjegate him like that. don't make that mistake. korn469 p.s. their is a bug with surrendered factions in that if they don't have a headquarters they will give you all their bases but they won't be eliminated. and later on you can give them a base back.
MichaeltheGreat	posted 06-19-99 11:53 AM ET I've had an 18 city 70 fighting unit Hive ?!?!? faction surrender to me, and stay allied to the end of the game, simply because I used ships and planes to wipe a ton of units out, and Miriam and Santiago declared war on Yang at the same time. I didn't take a single hive city - he just caved because of the high unit losses and the second war. This was at transcend level. I never extorted anything from Yang, and 18 cities worth of trade was quite nice, and his needlejets were preety helpful, since he flew them to my bases which were closer to Miriam and Santiago. This was bizarre though - I really didn't have the ability to invade him - just shore bombardment, transport plinking, and airstrikes.
RedFred	posted 06-19-99 12:18 PM ET Everybody has their own style in dealing with surrendered factions. My preferred style is to accept surrender as soon as it is offered. One of the reasons I don't wait until after conquering a bunch of their cities is that the conquered cities often lack infrastructure and are poorly located. IMHO, conquered cities are more trouble than they are worth unless they have a cool SP. After appealing to them to stop fighting my other pact siblings, I pretty much let the surrendered faction do its own thing. Most important to me are the increased trade and having one less enemy. As well, they will voluntarily support me in most wars, gift me any tech they get and gift units. Sometimes I get so many gifted units popping up at the same spot I can build SPs primarily with disbanded units. Stay noble, unsurpassed and don't be rude to your surrendered faction and they shouldn't turn on you. Although, I wonder if I am getting set up in my current game. First the Spartans surrendered to me without me firing a shot. Then it was Yang, who decided to fight a low grade war with me. I took over a couple of his more annoying encroaching sea bases and he unexpectedly surrendered. His might was potent, number 3 on the depth chart. Then Lal launched a sneak attack on me. I got as far as his border and was about to attack my first PK unit when he threw in the towel. That is three surrendered factions and I haven't even fought that much. Not sure what the AI is up to. BTW, it is a TI game, but not with the aggressive AI setting. -R
CoolBot	posted 06-19-99 01:55 PM ET Lal has surrendered to me, and has only one city. What I really want him to do is to expand a little. Will he do it on his own, or do have to give a colony pod or city to him?
Boylard	posted 06-19-99 02:46 PM ET I have just finished a TI game playing as morgan with Yang as my surrendered pact brother. After a brief war with the gaians (singularity drop blink hovertanks and singularity copters) I captured the empath guild and this gave me enough votes to become supreme leader, so I called the council to vote. I won by a mile but Yang decided to go against the decision. I had to conquer him of course but the point is he had voted for me in the election and he had surrendered to me earlier in the game. The only atoricities comitted during the game were comitted by Yang and Lady Deirdre, who both tried unsuccesfully to planet bust me.
RedFred	posted 06-19-99 06:19 PM ET Sorry, I guess I rambled off topic. If your surrendered faction only has one city you don't have much of an asset right now. You have to consider whether building up the surrendered faction is worth the effort. Depending on the location, they may never build another city on their own. I prefer to keep my colony pods for my own faction. If you conquer some cities on the edge of your empire you may want to gift them to your new pals. Let them worry about rebuilding the infrastructure. They can often act as a buffer to soak up an attack from the faction you are still fighting. If you still want to go ahead and build cities for them, do it half way around planet where planting your own cities would be suboptimal due to inefficiency & supply line problems. I never bother with the Datalinks SP. If you don't have it, or if you have spoils of war on, be careful about gifting tech to the surrendered faction. -R
Plato90s	posted 06-19-99 11:14 PM ET There's always a practical benefit of having surrendered factions - council votes. Not in the planetary governor votes, but in the proposal votes like commerce rate, solar shade, etc... Every faction gets only one vote, regardless of population. Having a couple of conquered factions in your pocket is a VERY good thing to have. Even a single-city vassal faction can have as much of a say in whether to launch a solar shade as you do.
Krushala	posted 06-20-99 09:34 AM ET I haven't checked this out but it seems like the score gained from commerce from surrendered factions is insignificant compared to the poplulation gained from conquering all of their cities except one. If you have cloning vats it's even more important. I can care less about commerce at this point. I prefer to shatter every faction on the planet before I transcend.
Series II	posted 06-21-99 08:13 AM ET Conqured factions are good because the commecre you get from them is at your biggest cities. These are usually your science capitols. 5 energy commerce at a prime science city could lead to 50-100 more research (base facilities and SPs). I agree that pop scores more points, but surrendered factions having 3-4 cities is a good thing. Also, you can sometimes get a lot more commerce income from returning their cities that keeping them and building them up. YOur inefficience many times eats all the energy these distant bases produce, but if you return to surrendered factions you start getting commerce income from them (assumming the surrendered faction still have a HQ or rebuilds one). In general population is nice, but a city that produces no energy (and just drains your energy from other cities) is only worth about 1/2 of a 'real city'.
Plato90s	posted 06-21-99 10:02 AM ET Besides, who really want to manage those itsy-bitsy bases? I usually give them away for the extra commerce or just put them on Governor and only allow the AI governor to build base facilities.
Series II	posted 06-21-99 01:36 PM ET Another slight factor with surrender factions is that they contribute to over all mineral production and can help push the limit ot where global warming happens.