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Author Topic:   Best/Worst Base Facilities
DilithiumDad posted 06-17-99 04:09 PM ET   Click Here to See the Profile for DilithiumDad   Click Here to Email DilithiumDad  
Okay, builders, let's hear it. What are your favorite facilities to build? Which ones are overrated? Here's my list:

Very early:
Best =Recycling tanks --gotta love 'em. Lal's ability to make them rightaway is a significant advantage (Dierdre takes the prize, though, for starting with tech for formers).
Worst =Rec Commons. Not that they're bad, it's just that they're limited --all they do is take away two drones. I'd rather wait and put in a Research Hospital and get +25% Psych and 50% research bonus, too.

Early:
Best=Research Hospital. As I said before, this is my favorite psych-enhancer. it's costly and has high maintenance (3 credits/year) but it's worth it I think.

So-so: Energy bank. This costs 1 credit maintenance and is expensive to build, so I'm selective where I place it. it's off the automatic build template.

Worst=Network node. I only build these for artifacts now or for really high-energy bases. Research Hospitals give you the exact same research bonus plus psych and one less drone.

Early-middle:
Best=Tree Forest/Hybrid Forest. This combo sets you back more than some Secret Projects, but they're worth it. An amazing variety of goodies --more nutrients (the only facilities that increase nutrients), more energy, economy bonus, psych bonus, ecology bonus. They key to everyone's superbase.

Worst=Bioenhancement Center. These become available just before you get the Cyborg Factory and have one in every base, so why bother?

Mid-Game:
Best: Fusion lab. This is a must-build if there is any kind of energy flowing at all in the base. It gives 50% boost to both economy and research, making it much better than the energy bank or network node.

Worst: Nanohospital. Outrageously priced, it merely duplicates the research hospital. I rarely build it, unless playing U of P without the Virtual World.

Late:
Best = Orbitals. These are great. Manna from heaven!

Worst = Paradise Garden. These come along just before you build the telepathic matrix and lose drone problems all together. So they never get built. Would be excellent if they came along earlier.

Eris posted 06-17-99 04:26 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Eris  Click Here to Email Eris     
Contrarily, I find both Network Nodes /and/ Energy Banks useful, at least early in the game... and I know I'm one of the few to think it's true of the latter. Later in the game, I don't tend to make Energy Banks much of a priority, if they're built at all. Even early in the game, there are several things I'll build first.

Rec Commons and, uh... Paradise Garden, is it? I don't build unless I'm starting to have drone problems... I generally have Virtual World and would much rather build a dual-purpose Network Node than the Rec Commons. I used to routinely build them when I built Hab Complexes until I realized it was utterly unnecessarily. I may change my mind again as I progress up the difficulty levels, of course.

I also virtually never build Psi Gates. By the time I have them, I've also usually got Space Elevator.

On the other hand, Tree Farm/Hybrid Forest are absolutely essential, and Perimeter Defense since I almost never get the associated SP. I also consider Recycling Tanks essential.

I nearly never build the +mineral base facilities /except/ the Nessus mining. Or I'll only put them in a few cities. Onthe other hand, I crank out Nessus mining and the other orbital platforms as quickly as I can once it's an option. As a corrolary, this means a lot of my bases end up with Aerospace complexes. Related to that: I generally build Bioenhancement centers, though often in the later game ignore the other +morale items (sometimes getting them via an SP anyhow).

Research Hospitals are definitely useful, but they tend to be about midway down my list because of what else I'd rather have. And, again unlike a lot of people, I generally build Bio labs.

Obviously, in a perfect game I'd build pretty much everything. Even Psi Gates. By the end of a game, I generally start having city structure lists that are extremely crowded.

Eris (kinda wishes there were a view base like option...)

Plato90s posted 06-17-99 04:40 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Plato90s    
At Transcend, the Rec Common is an necessity unless you want to keep on having drone riots. The research hospital comes far too late in the game to be helpful in controlling drones in the first 50 years.

Network Nodes are a bit overpriced, but the virtual world makes it worthwhile. With VW, your Network Node gives you +50% research, +50% psych, and -2 drones. Much better than Research Hospital.

While it's true that Cyborg factory does give you Bioenhancement centers, what if you don't get the Cyborg Factory? If this is the rationale we'll be using, then Command Center, Naval Center, Hologram Theatre, and Perimeter Defense all fall on that list.

Now, the most truly worthless facility is the Quantum Converter. By the time you get that tech, you already have all the industrial capacity you need. With Singularity Inductor right around the corner, I have never built a Quantum Converter.

Krushala posted 06-17-99 07:08 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Krushala  Click Here to Email Krushala     
Have to agree with you on the quantem converter. Has anyone here ever built one? Recreation commons is one of the most important facilities. Even on thinker level. I have to build one before starting a secret project. Or when I go into a riot I have to reassign a worker usually making my base growth stagnent. Fusion Labs are great as well. I know network nodes are expensive but along with biology labs in every one of my bases I can usually get tech leader with any faction except maybe miriam.
NoMercy posted 06-17-99 07:36 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for NoMercy  Click Here to Email NoMercy     
Early
-----

Recycling Tanks essential
Network Nodes almost essential

Mid
---
Tree/Hybrid Essential
Fusion Labs almost essential

Late Game
---------
Some orbitals (not too many Nessus Mining!)but nothing is really essential.

I have never ever ever built a PSI gate. By that point have Orbital Insertion and Magnetic Tubes!

Q: Are all of the facility bonus' cumulative?
I ought to know with all of the games I play but I'm sort of lazy and not really thought about it before!

googlie posted 06-17-99 08:09 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for googlie    
I've never built a Psi gate either.

Energy banks don't pay for themselves until that base's energy reaches 4 (3 x 1.5 = 4.5, rounded down, so the maintenance cost of an energy bank for a 3 energy base uses up the improvement bonus)

Krushala posted 06-17-99 08:17 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Krushala  Click Here to Email Krushala     
Actually I've used psi gates to transport alien artifacts. If I'm in a real hurry to transcend I'll build a psi gate on one continent where I have artifacts usually conquered artifacts from enemies. Then I build one in my city with universal translator.
Koshko posted 06-17-99 11:19 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Koshko  Click Here to Email Koshko     
To me everything is useful except the Punishment Sphere. By the end of the game, my early cities will have everything built except the Punisher and sometimes the Pressure Dome and/or a couple of the mineral enhancers.

For my newer built cities that I haven't had a chance to built up, these are in my opinion the most essential (not counting things you can autobuld w/ SPs).
1)Recycling Tanks
2)Rec Commons (I play on Transcend)
3)Tree Farm/Hybrid Forest
4)Children's Creche (at least until Cloning vats)
5)Both of the Habs (duh)
6)All of the Labs (esp Fusion)
7)Tach Field (needed for added protection)
8)At least one 50% mineral enhancer (usually Robotic Plant)

TheMadStork posted 06-18-99 02:42 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for TheMadStork  Click Here to Email TheMadStork     
Confessions of a builder:
- Recycling tanks are far and away the best facility in the game. Early, cheap, and a huge boost to city development.
- Recreation commons is usually the second facility I build; on every level, but especially transcend, there can be no serious building without drone management, and the commons are the cheapest, most effective way to minimize it without devoting too much energy to psych.
- Quantum converter, for above-mentioned reasons, is the only facility I have never built.
- Paradise gardens are good for one thing: inducing Golden Ages in bases over size 20.
- I used to avoid the punishment sphere and genejack factory: I didn't like the negative consequences. Then, I realized that you can't fight a war with a Free Market economy unless at least one base has a sphere, and can, therefore, pump out dozens of units without suffering riots. And the genejack factory adds a nice mineral bonus long before the other facilities (and Nessus mining stations) become available.

As usual, what you build depends on your style of play. I generally build everything I can. And then some.
That's all.
I go now.

Zoetrope posted 06-18-99 08:08 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Zoetrope  Click Here to Email Zoetrope     
Don't forget that with your bases producing clean units, you can transfer their home base to one that has a punishment sphere. (This is the famous "troop laundering".)

Then the punishment-sphere base doesn't need to have high mineral capacity for you to produce, maintain and project a large and fast growing military while your social engineering is technically "peaceful".

Earwicker posted 06-18-99 08:39 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Earwicker  Click Here to Email Earwicker     
Recycling Tanks and Rec Commons are most important for bases to grow without constantly stopping for drone patrol. I build lots of Network Nodes with or without the Virtual World -- VW just changes the math a little bit about how much energy makes it worthwhile.

Children's Creche would be a close third, as they facilitate the rapid expansion strategy and pay for themselves many times over if build early.

Strategy can make a huge difference in the usefulness of a facility: if I'm going for green conquest, then I build lots of Bio Labs. Otherwise, not so many.

If Psi Gates came along sooner I might build more of those. I've thought about moving them earlier and monkeying around with their cost to make them worthwhile, but I wonder about whether the AI would pick up on it. Now that I think of it, they are so remiss about infrastructure development it would only benefit me. Never mind.

Good point about the Paradise Garden for golden ages. By that point of the game, I'm just trying to get to Transcendance without too much micromanagement. I'll have to give that one a try.

I seldom find the need for tachyon fields. Sometimes I'll put one in my capital for grins or a belt-and-suspenders approach if there's an enemy hovering around. I favor the pre-emptive defense.

Series II posted 06-18-99 08:49 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Series II    
I usually build:

1) Recycles tanks
2) Defensive Unit
3) Former
4) Childrens Cache
5) Energy Bank
6) Bio Lab
7) All other labs

Rec commons is built right before needed (when 1 drone shows up). I will add other units and colony pods as needed, but I usually build every facility in every base except for:

1) punishment sphere (I have build 1-2 on occasion)
2) Skunkworks

I also make it a very high priority to get any secret project that helps all my bases. For that matter I make it a high priority to get every secret project and I usually get all but 1-2 of them (I play on thinker level).

Eris posted 06-18-99 08:54 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Eris  Click Here to Email Eris     
Heh. I so have never built a Punishment Sphere that I forgot them on my list of things I don't build.
DilithiumDad posted 06-18-99 11:09 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for DilithiumDad  Click Here to Email DilithiumDad     
Most people build Rec Commons too soon. Spartans with their +police don't need them and neither does the Hive. The Peacekeepers don't need them right away because of their extra Talent, and the tech for Research Hoispital is usually my 3rd or 4th research topic for the Peacekeepers, so I build that first and only use Rec Commons for large bases. UofP needs 'em ASAP, and so do the Gaians. A nice thing about Research Hospitals is that they are a psych multiplier, which means if you make a 10% allocation to Psych you get a big payoff in extra talents and can go golden (especially Peacekeepers or if you have the Human Genome Project).

I never get the Virtual World unless I play UofP. In that case, Nodes are not that great. Biology labs give you +20% research instead of +50 but are quicker to build.

I always get the cyborg factory. I am always ahead on tech by that level, even playing the Hive. Also, I have several bases building one SP so I can switch production and get the next SP shortly after it's researched.

Punishment spheres are thge first thing I build in a conquered city, unless there are already psych or lab facilities in it (usually there's nothing but drones and no facilities --that's why I hate being conquerer unless I play Hive with Police State). The next thing is the Genejack Factory, because it doesn't matter with the Sphere in place. Sure it reduces research, but not every base needs to contribute to research. Some bases, especially captured ones, should be mass producing units.

I forgot to mention the Robotic Assembly Plant. This becomes part of my build que template in mid-game. It gives you +50% minerals with no drones.

DilithiumDad posted 06-18-99 11:15 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for DilithiumDad  Click Here to Email DilithiumDad     
Energy banks: You gain +1 energy with a base energy of 4, but that is not worth 80 minerals! You should only build an energy bank if you're raking in 8 energy from your production tiles.

Also: You were supposed to get a free energy bank with one of the techs (singularity engine?) according to the manual, but it doesn't happen. Is this another bug?

LocustOfChiron posted 06-18-99 11:35 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for LocustOfChiron    
Nobody has commented on how the Uneversity can use the Punishment Sphere so efficiently, so I guess I better. They start out with network nodes (+50% research) but they really dont help that much if it's a 2 energy base or something. So get to Advanced Military Algorithms and build a sphere in every base. Poof. Drones go bye-bye. Forever. And the -50% labs? It gest offset by the +50% from the network nodes. Using this strategy, I still managed to make about 1 tech/6 turns in 2200.
Series II posted 06-18-99 11:45 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Series II    
Locust, YOur idea of punishment spheres does seem valid, but you trade the UOP strength to offset it's weakness (no drones, but about normal research). It might be the thing to do at mid game if you are well ahead in tech, but I would hate to see the AI get air units before me.

I pretty much plan on taking out the most serious computer faction using my air units before he has air units. UOP makes this pretty easy.

It may be more a 'style' choice. I try to offset drones with base facilities to keep as much in research as possible. However if a base is producing almost no energy it is producing almost no research.

Rackam posted 06-18-99 12:01 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Rackam    
A small note about recycling tanks for new bases in mid game.

A pressure dome (free with a sea base) functions as recycling tanks as a bonus.

~Rackam

Plato90s posted 06-18-99 11:22 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Plato90s    
As far as I know, no SP is supposed to give you free Energy Banks.

There is one occasion in which I build Psi Gates - the Nuclear Winter scenario. This is when I'm bored with wading through the endless number of stupid little bases that the AI builds. A conquest victory takes forever, and all my PBs are being built in the home region. No problem. A few Psi Gates back home and Psi gates in the operational theatre means I nuke the entire planet in a single turn instead of waiting for the PBs to fly around.

I do tend to use Punishment Spheres even with UoP in some cases. You get stuck in really ugly situations when your average city size is about 6-9. Not generating enough energy to control drones, and your SE choices are limited. Building a single Punishment Sphere lets you skip all the drone facilities to just turn the place into a mineral production area. Occasionally, I would use crawlers to export all the energy to another city, unaffected by the Punishment Sphere's negatives.

RedFred posted 06-19-99 01:35 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for RedFred    
Most people seem to play similarly to me.

I am with Rackam on pressure domes. I regard them as essential even though I generally go easy on planet. (e.g. no boreholes) You never know when council will do something silly like raise sea levels. Once I have the tech, I will skip the recycling tanks and go directly to pressure domes if the city has decent production.

As well, I would echo Plato90s on Rec Commons. I can't get by without 'em at Transcend level. I wind up building lots of hologram theatres, too. I try to go with 0% psych as long as possible.

One facility that hasn't got a lot of press is the Aerospace Complex. Even without the air morale bonus they are handy if you like orbitals. I build them practically everywhere.

For those who don't build a lot of Network nodes, don't you run into trouble with network node events? Nodes are cheap to maintain anyway, so I build lots, if not playing UP. I believe there are two SPs that enhance the nodes' effect. Plus, you get the cool song with the first node.

In my very first game I used the auto guv. It built lots of wacky stuff and I haven't used it since. That was my one and only experience with the genejack factory which I don't use. I don't even think to build punishment spheres, but there must specialized situations when they are handy.

The psi gate comes too late to be much value. As do some of the later factories. Not much bang for your buck unless your city is really high production. I'd rather launch some Nessus mining stations and pray they don't get knocked out.

I seldom build the temple of planet or the tachyon field.

-R

dinoman posted 06-19-99 11:03 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for dinoman    
Orbitals rule! I build as many of them as I can, as quickly as I can. I just wish there would be a psych producing orbital. -1 drone per base.
Natguy posted 08-06-99 02:55 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Natguy  Click Here to Email Natguy     
Bringing this one back up.
MajiK6pt5 posted 08-06-99 04:56 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for MajiK6pt5  Click Here to Email MajiK6pt5     
You had better have enough votes/influence to stop the council from raising sea levels, or other stupid stuff. I play with a custom faction which gets rec commons free, so...umm..haha. But, research hospital is almost useless, because it costs a lot, and i always keep psych at 0%, so unless I have doctors (which is not until late game) there is no point to build one, as it will do nothing to psych.
Stellar Lightning posted 08-06-99 06:52 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Stellar Lightning    
Hmm. Orbitals that increase psych ? How about "Orbital recreation facilities" ?

Need lots of energy for maintenance, -1 drone per base, -1 population at a random base if one of them gets destroyed. Don't build too many ...

Natguy posted 08-06-99 11:43 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Natguy  Click Here to Email Natguy     
I once built a Punishment Sphere in every base (as University) and then proceded to go on a conquering spree. This was before I had discovered the wonderes of supply crawlers. Could not a sizable fleet of crawlers convoying energy offset the research reducer, as well as getting more energy? You could bulk up on mineral and somne nutrientterraforming around the base and depend on crawlers for energy.
OldCodger posted 08-09-99 01:51 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for OldCodger  Click Here to Email OldCodger     
This may be a little off-topic, but this discussion about Punishment Spheres and how to use them has prompted another question.

Here's the situation: In a recent game, I am playing Gaians. The Believers declared Vendetta for no apparent reason, but they are a long way off, so I didn't mess with them. Later, I notice the Hive is crushing the Believers, and I'm thinking how nice of Yang to save me the hassle. Not long after, the Hive declares Vendetta and since they are the second largest faction, I decided to administer a lesson on being courteous to the Tree-Huggers. As I basically tear through the heart of Hive territory--much of it taken from the Believers--I'm starting to take cities with *FIVE* drones and no workers. I was being particularly careful not to destroy things like farms, etc. But, I've noticed that the Hive has no reluctance in this area, so I'm guessing that Yang tore the place up when he was taking out the Believers. It was too early in the game for the Telepathic Matrix (I think that's the one that prevents drone riots), so I really didn't know how to handle this kind of thing. So, I got out Ye Olde Nerve Staple Gun (available at fine hardware stores everywhere ) and managed to commit enough atrocities to earn over 170 years of sanctions.

So, my question is: would a rush-built Punishment Sphere solved the problem better? I didn't really mind the sanctions since I was by that time in Vendetta with every remaining faction and wasn't trading anyway. But I could not build anything fast enough to solve this problem (a fondness for spending energy on SPs). Also, I'm kind of wondering what would have happened had I done nothing. Would the cities shrivel up and die? As it was, once I started Nerve Stapling Hive--but formerly Believer--citizens, Yang would not surrender and I had to kill him off. No great loss there, but I would have been displeased had I been forced to kill UoP that way. Miriam, on the other hand, later surrendered so she wasn't upset that I stapled a bunch of her former citizens; uncommonly good sense on her part.

P.S. I ended up conquering the world, but had started out going for Transcedence. I seem to have trouble getting along with anyone, and I'm supposed to be a pacifist .

ViVicdi posted 08-09-99 03:14 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for ViVicdi  Click Here to Email ViVicdi     
It may be helpful for you to know that if you dismantle military units at a base you get some minerals refunded (I'm guessing half) and that if you have >= 10 minerals of construction in a building the remaining production is 2/unit. (It is double that if you don't have the first 10 minerals.)

Drawing upon these tactics I have accelerated Punishment Spheres in conquered bases with excellent results. "Third World" bases (hey, new SMAC Dictionary Entry!) with large populations and no infrastructure are particularly in need of a 'sphere.

K posted 08-09-99 04:25 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for K  Click Here to Email K     
P-Sphere's are almost required for conquered bases. The bonus Drones and lack of facilities(because of conquering) makes it almost impossible to quickly quell Drone riots. I've destroyed more than a few bases because I set all the pop the docotors or empath and watched it eat itself to death, just because I couldn't spare the extra 200 ec to rush a P-sphere.
Zero posted 08-10-99 05:28 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Zero  Click Here to Email Zero     
OldCodger, if you let the riots go on, rioters will start to break infrastructure. Eventually, they may revolt and join another faction.

I've found a rushed Rec Commons will keep most conquered bases in line, as long as you recruit a specialist or two.

But really, if the base has no infrastructure left, it's not worth hanging onto. I often find you get more value from a conquered base by giving it away to an ally who doesn't have as many bases as you do. The trade income comes to one of your bases with network node/research hospital, etc., and the drones are somebody else's problem.

sandworm posted 08-10-99 05:43 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for sandworm  Click Here to Email sandworm     
Tanks - don't build 'em unless I'm playing on an arid planet, but they're nice.

I always build , rec commons, energy banks and later network nodes. Lately, I've started putting a Children's creche in all border cities (+1 morale and +1 efficiency, the extra growth catches them up with core cities, too). Tree farm and hybrid forest unless there's no forest, then I may or may not put in a research hospital and fusion lab. If I don't need the psych, I'll just put in the fusion lab.

I tend to scatter aerospace complexes in about 1/4 to 1/3 of my cities just because air power seems to be a major component of AI attacks. I build interceptors and then energy satellites whenever possible in those cities, the extra energy is great - it doesn't cause any ecodamage to rush build base facilities and units.

The punishment sphere trick is great, particularly with clean units supported from that city later in the game (if you haven't already won).

Sinapus posted 08-13-99 10:54 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Sinapus  Click Here to Email Sinapus     
Well, there is no satellite that does things like reduce drones, but if you have energy going into psyche then the orbital power transmitters will increase a base's energy level, some of which goes into psyche and will reduce drones that way.

Is there a random event that removes the hydroponics satellites? I got hit by a flare once, and lost the pods and powersats, but my farms were still in orbit. (Good thing too, considering the starvation you could face.)

fromhell posted 08-14-99 12:24 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for fromhell  Click Here to Email fromhell     
Well, I just want to poke my head in to defend the Rec Commons. On Transcend it's a must, no matter who you are. If you wait for the drone to show up and -then- make the commons, well, there you're missing valuable income early in the game (when you need it most). That one damn mineral (or two) make a huge diference durring those unstable early years. Rec Commons is right behind (and sometimes in front of depending on the faction) the Recycling Tank. Early in the game it's all about doing everything you can to max the Minerals and nutrients a base is putting out so when you decide to take that pesty neihbor out early, you have the resources to do it. And quite frankly, a (gahh) -doctor- just isn't going to give you the help you need.
DilithiumDad posted 08-17-99 01:13 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for DilithiumDad  Click Here to Email DilithiumDad     
Great to see this revived!

Rec Commons only does one thing --subtracts two drones. I'd rather do it with Police Infantry, or with Research Hospital --subtracts one drone, boosts psych, AN increases research as much as a Newtowrk Node. High maintenance is a peoblem, though. Once I built a bunch of these as the Hive and really tanked out myeconomy (they cost 3 credits a turn!).

Punishment Spheres --great for captured bases. Forget about trying to boost research in that base --just write it off for reserach and build units. Right after the sphere, build a Genejack Factory --there's no drone penalty. Here's a build que for a captured base:

Pun. Sphere (rushed)
Genejack Factory
AAA Garrison
Children's Creche
Aerospace Complex

Sheitan posted 08-19-99 07:48 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Sheitan  Click Here to Email Sheitan     
On Transcend, Rec centres are necessary. You can't just say "you'd rather do it with police" because on Transcend you need Rec centres AND police AND hologram centres to keep your folks placated.

The Rec Centre is as necessary as the Civ2 temple.

Other great buildings for their cost are:
Recycling Tanks
Children's Creche
Research Hospital and Tree Farm

Worst buildings:
Skunkworks
Quantum Converter
Psi Gate

- Sheitan

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