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Sector7G posted 06-04-99 08:35 PM ET
I'm Having a litte trouble with terraforming.
eg. rolling/moist f/m/r or f/s/r lose the nut. or lose the min.
eg2. flat/moist do I flip a coin when i comes to a solar/mine or is there somthing else to it. I realize that I'm being vaigue, but I could go on forever. Perhaps someone might know of a guide pertaining to this subject.
ps. Is alphahq ever going to work again?
(sigh)
JonYZ posted 06-04-99 08:59 PM ET
If its up high build a solar collector, but if its down low you should probably build a mine. But if your city has plenty of one then build the other. Glad to provide a little assistance.
MichaeltheGreat posted 06-04-99 09:07 PM ET
flat moist has no resources, and you can't terraform to rolling, so I turn them into forest. You get 1/2/2 food/res/energy initialy, tree farms make it 2/2/2 and hybrid forest makes it 3/2/2
Plato90s posted 06-04-99 09:29 PM ET
Actually, forests give you 1-2-1 initially.
With Tree Farm, you can get 2-2-1.
With Hybrid Forest, you can get 3-2-2.
As you can see, the real bonus comes with Hybrid Forest, when you get an energy bonus along with a nutrient bonus.
Moist and Arid squares are utterly useless unless they are rocky. Convert them to a rainy square by building condensors, or build forests, or build a borehole.
Koshko posted 06-04-99 10:49 PM ET
Build Mines only on Rocky Squares with Mineral Deposits. Build Farm/Solar/Road on 1000+ Evalations with Rolling Terrian. Forest on all flat terrain, and all nonRocky/Mineral terrains below 1000 elevation. You'll probably need to build a couple of farms before you can make a Tree Farm.
Ambro2000 posted 06-05-99 04:32 AM ET
You are missing out one of the best terraform options in the game; rivers!!!
They turn moist in to a rainy square and provide +1 energy...build as many as you can

VictorK posted 06-05-99 04:17 PM ET
Moist squares are rarely turned to rainy by rivers. OTOH, arid squares are turned to moist very often. I haven't figured out how the effect of rivers on moisture level is exactly determined, though.
jimmytrick posted 06-05-99 07:00 PM ET
I didn't think that rivers have any effect on moisture. As I understand it you need to raise terrain to the east to increase moisture/rainfall. Rivers are great. I will have to check on the arid to moist conversion, Victor. Anyway arid, nonrocky is automatic forest for me, unless I want a borehole.Condensers increase rainfall also.
What do farms have to do with tree farms?
Is anybody using e-mirrors? I read that you could build one and then forest could grow into it later! I would like some info on what else forest can grow into!
I have also read about replacing farms, collectors, and mines with forest late in the game, but I have not tried that yet.
Finally, I understand fungus is good late also. I am usually too intent on winning to revamp at a late stage and have not paid much attention to fungus at all. I just get rid of it.

Plato90s posted 06-05-99 07:17 PM ET
Besides altitude and weather patterns, the rainfall has to come from moisture somewhere. Placing condensors near each other can sometimes cause a rainy square to change to being moist. Adding river squares add more moisture to the overall environment, so it's a benefit to farming.
Tree Farms have no impact on rainfall.
Forest can spread into a square which is either flat or rolling, but not if that square already has a farm/mine/solar collector/borehole. Forest can spread into squares with a Condenser or an Echelon Mirror.
BTW, the best environment in which to tap a river is when you have a mostly flat area [as in many squares of similar elevation] so the river will wind through lots of squares. If you have a steep gradient to an ocean, the river is short.
Ambro2000 posted 06-05-99 07:44 PM ET
I've had several cases were moist squares becomes rainy ones when I build rivers. It's ofcourse not every square and for some reason not always the squares were the rivers are being built, but one or two squares away??
I normally build forest on flat/moist squares too since they can't produce any minerals.
jimmytrick posted 06-05-99 08:53 PM ET
Its good to know that everyone isn't just auto-terraforming!
God save all micromanagers!
MichaeltheGreat posted 06-05-99 09:19 PM ET
Sorry about the brain fart on forest energy values. I usually have a high ecomomy rating in free market/wealth, so have the extra energy, and go green when I can build the hybrid forests
Rivers are very cool for the energy bonus, and for the added moisture. They both move sometimes or partly disappear (See Nell's thread) and they change the altitude of some terrain on occasion, and that leads to the occasional alteration of raininess a couple of squares away.
From what I've seen, a river will change moist to rainy about 1/3 of the time on the river course itself, but not adjacent.
It will change arid to moist all the time on the rivercourse, and about half to 3/4ths of the time on adjacent squares, depending on surrounding terrain. Two sqares away, it occasionally changes arid to moist, but I've found this to be pretty rare.
I didn't know you could set formers to Auto <evil grin>. (Joking - I knew, I just ignored) Games are the only things in life where micromanagement goes from an evil to a necessity.
Rackam posted 06-06-99 05:21 AM ET
Plato - Just a small correction, forest will expand into a square containing a borehole, you can plant it there too, plus you can drill aquifiers as well. This can be usefull since if there is a fungus bloom in that square, the forest will go rather than the borehole.
~Rackam
Eris posted 06-07-99 09:56 AM ET
Here's my basic way of deciding. Your mileage may vary.
Before Tree Farms --
Arid, flat or rolling: Forest
Arid, rocky: often undeveloped unless I'm short on minerals, in which case I mine/road. Eventually I end up either mining it or leveling it and foresting it.
Moist, Flat or Rolling: Farm/Solar
Moist, Rocky: level to rolling unless I'm short on minerals; mine otherwise.
Rainy, Flat: Farm/Solar
Rainy, Rolling: Farm/Solar if I'm short on energy, Farm/Mine if I'm short on minerals
Rainy, Rocky: level to rolling. always.
After Tree Farms:
Forest everywhere but rainy squares, levelling rockies to rolling, unless I'm desperately short of minerals, in which case I leave mines in rocky terrain.
Rainy squares as before tree farms.
/Sometimes/ I will forest a rainy square, particularly if I'm low on minerals. Just like /sometimes/ I will farm/solar a moist square even after tree farms, if it's a high altitude.
I never use boreholes, condensers, or echelon mirrors inside city radii. I will put a condenser in spaces between cities very often, however, and sometimes a mirror. I don't think I've dug a borehole yet at all, but if I did, I do it near a city and use a supply crawler to harvest it.
The highest city population I've tried to support is 29 so far. I had a few orbital improvements by then.
Sector7G posted 06-07-99 09:21 PM ET
Hey, I like this, thanks for your replies, It has helped alot. A couple of more questions for you to ponder over:
1. If a tree is harvested outside the city radius does the bonus 5 min go to the nerest base or to waste.
2. Does a e-mirror aslo do the job of a solar and also I'm not quite clear on the adjacent: (follow as per diagram)
s s s s= solar collector
s e-m s e-m= echelon mirror
s s s
is the energy collection as follows:
+1 +1 +1
+1 0 +1 ???
+1 +1 +1
3.On last thing, What have been your highest numbers in your city screen concerning minerals and energy. (I can remember cranking out 200+ minerial bases and 1000+ trade in Civ2 but I have yet to perform even close to that in SMAC) Please feel free to share your accomplishments and how you achieved them.
Once again thanks for your replies
Plato90s posted 06-07-99 10:22 PM ET
The echelon mirrors do not act as solar collectors. The effect is cumulative, though. So, for example,
E S E
S E S
S S S
The bonus effect is
0 +3 0
+2 0 +2
+1 +1 +1
And I've pumped out over 4000 research points in a single base in a single turn.
Koshko posted 06-07-99 10:39 PM ET
Yes, Rivers.
I like to drill on the highest evalation possible. It can make long winding rivers. I also prefer drilling right on a resource when possible. In the later going, I'll usually have a couple of SuperFormers roaming around creating rivers everywhere I possibly can. By then that extra +1 energy may not matter much, but why disband everything after Foresting everything.
M_ashwell posted 06-09-99 10:15 AM ET
forests will grow into borehole squares as well as condencers hmm i wonder will they groe into CITY squares?
Series II posted 06-09-99 10:21 AM ET
Anyone tried to build a city on a forest square?
Rackam posted 06-09-99 10:29 AM ET
M_ashwell - No they don't.
Series II - I have, and all it does is get rid of the bare patch under the base when there's forest all around.
~Rackam
DilithiumDad posted 06-09-99 03:16 PM ET
Echelon mirrors DO count as solar collectors --but they get no bonus for themselves. You can add a farm and soil enricher to the echelon square. Be sure to complely surround the echelon with solar + farm squares.
What about landmarks? My favorite spots for echelon mirros (on Huge Map of Planet) are the center square of Sunny Mesa (with solar+ farm in the other 8 squares), the high elevations east of Monsoon Jungle, and the crest of Pholus Ridge adjacent to an energy bonus. The last two are good for rivers, too.
Best spot for condensors: the center square of Garland Crater. This one improvement is the only thing you'll need to get 2-2-1 in every square. Also good for the Upland Wastes.
Provost Harrison posted 06-14-99 01:26 PM ET
Series II: Bases build fine on forest squares, but with no effect.
I always (usually) level rocky terrain. I'll explain:
Anything rainy, F+S (even if Rocky, terrain levelled).
Moist <1000m forested or boreholed (2/city). Flat - always forested or boreholed. Rocky - converted to rolling, or boreholed (with the exception of being near Mount Planet, always mined)
Arid - always forested or boreholed.
Echelon Mirrors, placed in grid pattern on farmed terrain. Won't go into detail, but figured out the best position for multiple mirrors on different squares, but not so many as they cancel out other effects, eg
-o-o-o-o-o- or -o-o-o-o-o-
----------- -----------
o-o-o-o-o-o -o-o-o-o-o-
----------- -----------
and repeat where possible. Not fixed, but try to maintain this pattern where possible in extensive farmed/sp areas.
Build some forests very early, they spread like wildfire, and cost nothing extra to cut down, on the contrary, you get +5 minerals to the base. So plant forests early and let them proliferate.
Provost Harrison posted 06-14-99 01:27 PM ET
Sorry, the diagram cocked up.
VictorK posted 06-14-99 05:47 PM ET
Building bases on forest squares has no effect, but building bases on e-mirrors or condensers does. This is quite useful. Note that you can't build anything on a square where a base is already built, so you must build the e-mirror/condenser first.
Series II posted 06-21-99 08:26 AM ET
This weekend I created my own inland sea by rasing land between 4 islands. I have about 40 land cities and have about 28 inland sea cities. THe AI can not get to my sea cities unless they take PANAMA (the only city that spans one square of land. Sort of nice all the cities are fairly close to my HQ so efficiency is good.
With SPs and 1 police unit I can get to a population of 6 before getting my first drone.
Fun.
Krushala posted 07-03-99 02:39 PM ET
good info on terraforming. Hopefully people agree that there are good stategies in this section now. You just have to look.
Earwicker posted 07-05-99 12:27 PM ET
I've seen instances where a borehole will change the climate of adjacent squares, but I don't know the conditions for it (whether random, 1-in-x chance, only for moist-to-rainy, etc.) Anyone else noticed this or know any of the rules on it?
Eariwcker, the Riverman
Krushala posted 07-05-99 03:42 PM ET
I've noticed this as well. It seems to be random. It usually dries up a square adjacent to it. Rainy to moist etc. I usually get a message after the borehole if built.
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Author	Topic: Terraforming???
Sector7G	posted 06-04-99 08:35 PM ET I'm Having a litte trouble with terraforming. eg. rolling/moist f/m/r or f/s/r lose the nut. or lose the min. eg2. flat/moist do I flip a coin when i comes to a solar/mine or is there somthing else to it. I realize that I'm being vaigue, but I could go on forever. Perhaps someone might know of a guide pertaining to this subject. ps. Is alphahq ever going to work again? (sigh)
JonYZ	posted 06-04-99 08:59 PM ET If its up high build a solar collector, but if its down low you should probably build a mine. But if your city has plenty of one then build the other. Glad to provide a little assistance.
MichaeltheGreat	posted 06-04-99 09:07 PM ET flat moist has no resources, and you can't terraform to rolling, so I turn them into forest. You get 1/2/2 food/res/energy initialy, tree farms make it 2/2/2 and hybrid forest makes it 3/2/2
Plato90s	posted 06-04-99 09:29 PM ET Actually, forests give you 1-2-1 initially. With Tree Farm, you can get 2-2-1. With Hybrid Forest, you can get 3-2-2. As you can see, the real bonus comes with Hybrid Forest, when you get an energy bonus along with a nutrient bonus. Moist and Arid squares are utterly useless unless they are rocky. Convert them to a rainy square by building condensors, or build forests, or build a borehole.
Koshko	posted 06-04-99 10:49 PM ET Build Mines only on Rocky Squares with Mineral Deposits. Build Farm/Solar/Road on 1000+ Evalations with Rolling Terrian. Forest on all flat terrain, and all nonRocky/Mineral terrains below 1000 elevation. You'll probably need to build a couple of farms before you can make a Tree Farm.
Ambro2000	posted 06-05-99 04:32 AM ET You are missing out one of the best terraform options in the game; rivers!!! They turn moist in to a rainy square and provide +1 energy...build as many as you can
VictorK	posted 06-05-99 04:17 PM ET Moist squares are rarely turned to rainy by rivers. OTOH, arid squares are turned to moist very often. I haven't figured out how the effect of rivers on moisture level is exactly determined, though.
jimmytrick	posted 06-05-99 07:00 PM ET I didn't think that rivers have any effect on moisture. As I understand it you need to raise terrain to the east to increase moisture/rainfall. Rivers are great. I will have to check on the arid to moist conversion, Victor. Anyway arid, nonrocky is automatic forest for me, unless I want a borehole.Condensers increase rainfall also. What do farms have to do with tree farms? Is anybody using e-mirrors? I read that you could build one and then forest could grow into it later! I would like some info on what else forest can grow into! I have also read about replacing farms, collectors, and mines with forest late in the game, but I have not tried that yet. Finally, I understand fungus is good late also. I am usually too intent on winning to revamp at a late stage and have not paid much attention to fungus at all. I just get rid of it.
Plato90s	posted 06-05-99 07:17 PM ET Besides altitude and weather patterns, the rainfall has to come from moisture somewhere. Placing condensors near each other can sometimes cause a rainy square to change to being moist. Adding river squares add more moisture to the overall environment, so it's a benefit to farming. Tree Farms have no impact on rainfall. Forest can spread into a square which is either flat or rolling, but not if that square already has a farm/mine/solar collector/borehole. Forest can spread into squares with a Condenser or an Echelon Mirror. BTW, the best environment in which to tap a river is when you have a mostly flat area [as in many squares of similar elevation] so the river will wind through lots of squares. If you have a steep gradient to an ocean, the river is short.
Ambro2000	posted 06-05-99 07:44 PM ET I've had several cases were moist squares becomes rainy ones when I build rivers. It's ofcourse not every square and for some reason not always the squares were the rivers are being built, but one or two squares away?? I normally build forest on flat/moist squares too since they can't produce any minerals.
jimmytrick	posted 06-05-99 08:53 PM ET Its good to know that everyone isn't just auto-terraforming! God save all micromanagers!
MichaeltheGreat	posted 06-05-99 09:19 PM ET Sorry about the brain fart on forest energy values. I usually have a high ecomomy rating in free market/wealth, so have the extra energy, and go green when I can build the hybrid forests Rivers are very cool for the energy bonus, and for the added moisture. They both move sometimes or partly disappear (See Nell's thread) and they change the altitude of some terrain on occasion, and that leads to the occasional alteration of raininess a couple of squares away. From what I've seen, a river will change moist to rainy about 1/3 of the time on the river course itself, but not adjacent. It will change arid to moist all the time on the rivercourse, and about half to 3/4ths of the time on adjacent squares, depending on surrounding terrain. Two sqares away, it occasionally changes arid to moist, but I've found this to be pretty rare. I didn't know you could set formers to Auto <evil grin>. (Joking - I knew, I just ignored) Games are the only things in life where micromanagement goes from an evil to a necessity.
Rackam	posted 06-06-99 05:21 AM ET Plato - Just a small correction, forest will expand into a square containing a borehole, you can plant it there too, plus you can drill aquifiers as well. This can be usefull since if there is a fungus bloom in that square, the forest will go rather than the borehole. ~Rackam
Eris	posted 06-07-99 09:56 AM ET Here's my basic way of deciding. Your mileage may vary. Before Tree Farms -- Arid, flat or rolling: Forest Arid, rocky: often undeveloped unless I'm short on minerals, in which case I mine/road. Eventually I end up either mining it or leveling it and foresting it. Moist, Flat or Rolling: Farm/Solar Moist, Rocky: level to rolling unless I'm short on minerals; mine otherwise. Rainy, Flat: Farm/Solar Rainy, Rolling: Farm/Solar if I'm short on energy, Farm/Mine if I'm short on minerals Rainy, Rocky: level to rolling. always. After Tree Farms: Forest everywhere but rainy squares, levelling rockies to rolling, unless I'm desperately short of minerals, in which case I leave mines in rocky terrain. Rainy squares as before tree farms. /Sometimes/ I will forest a rainy square, particularly if I'm low on minerals. Just like /sometimes/ I will farm/solar a moist square even after tree farms, if it's a high altitude. I never use boreholes, condensers, or echelon mirrors inside city radii. I will put a condenser in spaces between cities very often, however, and sometimes a mirror. I don't think I've dug a borehole yet at all, but if I did, I do it near a city and use a supply crawler to harvest it. The highest city population I've tried to support is 29 so far. I had a few orbital improvements by then.
Sector7G	posted 06-07-99 09:21 PM ET Hey, I like this, thanks for your replies, It has helped alot. A couple of more questions for you to ponder over: 1. If a tree is harvested outside the city radius does the bonus 5 min go to the nerest base or to waste. 2. Does a e-mirror aslo do the job of a solar and also I'm not quite clear on the adjacent: (follow as per diagram) s s s s= solar collector s e-m s e-m= echelon mirror s s s is the energy collection as follows: +1 +1 +1 +1 0 +1 ??? +1 +1 +1 3.On last thing, What have been your highest numbers in your city screen concerning minerals and energy. (I can remember cranking out 200+ minerial bases and 1000+ trade in Civ2 but I have yet to perform even close to that in SMAC) Please feel free to share your accomplishments and how you achieved them. Once again thanks for your replies
Plato90s	posted 06-07-99 10:22 PM ET The echelon mirrors do not act as solar collectors. The effect is cumulative, though. So, for example, E S E S E S S S S The bonus effect is 0 +3 0 +2 0 +2 +1 +1 +1 And I've pumped out over 4000 research points in a single base in a single turn.
Koshko	posted 06-07-99 10:39 PM ET Yes, Rivers. I like to drill on the highest evalation possible. It can make long winding rivers. I also prefer drilling right on a resource when possible. In the later going, I'll usually have a couple of SuperFormers roaming around creating rivers everywhere I possibly can. By then that extra +1 energy may not matter much, but why disband everything after Foresting everything.
M_ashwell	posted 06-09-99 10:15 AM ET forests will grow into borehole squares as well as condencers hmm i wonder will they groe into CITY squares?
Series II	posted 06-09-99 10:21 AM ET Anyone tried to build a city on a forest square?
Rackam	posted 06-09-99 10:29 AM ET M_ashwell - No they don't. Series II - I have, and all it does is get rid of the bare patch under the base when there's forest all around. ~Rackam
DilithiumDad	posted 06-09-99 03:16 PM ET Echelon mirrors DO count as solar collectors --but they get no bonus for themselves. You can add a farm and soil enricher to the echelon square. Be sure to complely surround the echelon with solar + farm squares. What about landmarks? My favorite spots for echelon mirros (on Huge Map of Planet) are the center square of Sunny Mesa (with solar+ farm in the other 8 squares), the high elevations east of Monsoon Jungle, and the crest of Pholus Ridge adjacent to an energy bonus. The last two are good for rivers, too. Best spot for condensors: the center square of Garland Crater. This one improvement is the only thing you'll need to get 2-2-1 in every square. Also good for the Upland Wastes.
Provost Harrison	posted 06-14-99 01:26 PM ET Series II: Bases build fine on forest squares, but with no effect. I always (usually) level rocky terrain. I'll explain: Anything rainy, F+S (even if Rocky, terrain levelled). Moist <1000m forested or boreholed (2/city). Flat - always forested or boreholed. Rocky - converted to rolling, or boreholed (with the exception of being near Mount Planet, always mined) Arid - always forested or boreholed. Echelon Mirrors, placed in grid pattern on farmed terrain. Won't go into detail, but figured out the best position for multiple mirrors on different squares, but not so many as they cancel out other effects, eg -o-o-o-o-o- or -o-o-o-o-o- ----------- ----------- o-o-o-o-o-o -o-o-o-o-o- ----------- ----------- and repeat where possible. Not fixed, but try to maintain this pattern where possible in extensive farmed/sp areas. Build some forests very early, they spread like wildfire, and cost nothing extra to cut down, on the contrary, you get +5 minerals to the base. So plant forests early and let them proliferate.
Provost Harrison	posted 06-14-99 01:27 PM ET Sorry, the diagram cocked up.
VictorK	posted 06-14-99 05:47 PM ET Building bases on forest squares has no effect, but building bases on e-mirrors or condensers does. This is quite useful. Note that you can't build anything on a square where a base is already built, so you must build the e-mirror/condenser first.
Series II	posted 06-21-99 08:26 AM ET This weekend I created my own inland sea by rasing land between 4 islands. I have about 40 land cities and have about 28 inland sea cities. THe AI can not get to my sea cities unless they take PANAMA (the only city that spans one square of land. Sort of nice all the cities are fairly close to my HQ so efficiency is good. With SPs and 1 police unit I can get to a population of 6 before getting my first drone. Fun.
Krushala	posted 07-03-99 02:39 PM ET good info on terraforming. Hopefully people agree that there are good stategies in this section now. You just have to look.
Earwicker	posted 07-05-99 12:27 PM ET I've seen instances where a borehole will change the climate of adjacent squares, but I don't know the conditions for it (whether random, 1-in-x chance, only for moist-to-rainy, etc.) Anyone else noticed this or know any of the rules on it? Eariwcker, the Riverman
Krushala	posted 07-05-99 03:42 PM ET I've noticed this as well. It seems to be random. It usually dries up a square adjacent to it. Rainy to moist etc. I usually get a message after the borehole if built.