Alpha Centauri Forums
Strategies and Tactics
How do you move the earth (planet)?
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Alpha Centauri Forums
Strategies and Tactics
How do you move the earth (planet)?
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| Author | Topic: How do you move the earth (planet)? |
| Player of Games |
posted 06-02-99 11:23 PM ET  
Any opinions on the best options for terraforming toward mid-game? The possibilities in the beginning of a game are usually pretty logical: farms on the moist squares, mines on the rocky, collectors at altitude, etc. But as the game progresses and the possibility of advanced former functions becomes available, things start to cloud up (no pun intended). My problem is that around the time tree farms and hybrid forests pop up, I've got a staggering array of farm/solar and mine/farm combos that just don't match up to a nice stand of evergreen in terms of resource production. I end up scrapping a lot of carefully sculpted dirt, and it seems wastefull. The nice ecology bonus takes the sting out of it, but I still feel like I'm missing something. Any ideas? |
| Plato90s |
posted 06-02-99 11:31 PM ET
If you feel silly replacing all those carefully built improvements with forests, imagine how strange you'd feel replanting xenofungus all over the place again. Toward the end game, forests and fungus are more productive than most squares and far easier to build/maintain. I keep soil enrichers on rainy rolling squares, but that's about it. But once you get into the stage where you have lots of satellites up and you are just piling on population for high scores, you will go back to soil enrichers and condensers to maximize your nutrient production. |
| gwimweeper |
posted 06-02-99 11:52 PM ET
Next to a heated tactical battle, I love the "terraform UP" practice. I have become fascinated with the way I can tailor my coastline. With 6 to 8 bases established, I crank out one or two formers with that intent. by 70 turns I have 10 or more formers sucking up ground. I can double my land mass (in the smaller scenarios and with large ocean) and be within striking distance when needlejets are avail. . Another plus for me is unearthing them there supply pods. by 100 turns, I run out of fresh pods to pluck. Someone said alien artifacts and network nodes are pretty key pieces in the thinker and above play modes. This is one way to get more than your share. . This will get one in trouble if a base is founded at shoreline and is landlocked later on,...AND you leave the governor on. You will get advanced skimships, and sea formers with no way to use them except as home defense. . I have a problem keeping up with 50 formers without autoimprove though, and they make too many roads for my taste. I have to cull them down to about half after 180-200 turns. But by then I have a well developed infrastructure. . Boreholes are sorely needed at first. Forests are good for supply crawlers a little later. I dont get much excitement with the "farm-mine-road" command though. |
| MichaeltheGreat |
posted 06-03-99 04:59 AM ET
I turn all arid squares into forest, and levelize all rocky squares. I also take flat/moist squares and make them forest, to get mineral production out of them. My end result is a land mass with lots of cities and about 70% forest. All my cities have pretty balanced production, and I kill the AI so bad at transcend/ironman it isn't even funny. I don't know about the lower play levels, since I only play at transcend/ironman, but in the early game, until you have the appropriate techs, boreholes only give you two minerals and two energy, with no food, so they really slow your growth rate. They also take a hell of a long time to build without superformers, and the heat dries out some neighboring terrain, reducing food production even further. I never mine - it also takes a long time, and reduces the food production from the square, plus you can't have a mine and a solar collector in the same square - I go for energy from the outset, and go after techs that will let me control drones, be more productive, get clean superformers, etc. I always manually control formers, even though its a pain, I get the result I want, where I want. Once you have the tree farm + hybrid forest improvements, forests give you 3 food, and 2 each of energy and minerals, so they are hard to beat for balanced production. I wipe out all fungus near my cities, but I usually find some or plant some on a nearby area, which I use as a training ground for my units - to get them to commando level, and from there to a monolith for the bump up to elite level. Although it bores me to tears since I am so dominant, I am working on a 10,000 plus point transcend/ironman victory, just to cross the 10,000 point barrier, and to see if I can blow up SMAC's score counter. |
| dingwick |
posted 06-03-99 07:19 AM ET
MichaeltheGreat, What do you mean by "I wipe out all fungus near my cities, but I usually find some or plant some on a nearby area, which I use as a training ground for my units - to get them to commando level, and from there to a monolith for the bump up to elite level". dingwick |
| Series II |
posted 06-03-99 09:03 AM ET
Forest and rivers. A neat trick I like to do is to put 2-6 formers around a city and start all of them drfilling to the aquafir. You get at least 2-6 river squares and usually more. It is almost a cheat because you can not drill an aquafir next to a river, but if the river is not there yet go for it. |
| Series II |
posted 06-03-99 10:07 AM ET
I have 4 formers currently working on raising the 4 'corners' of my city that is in the middle of Unarinum Flats. I have the merchant exchange there and plan on getting Super Collider and Theory of Everything there. Once all squares are 4000+ feet I will build farms/solar on EVERY square. I should have 110+ energy in that one city. I might move my HQ there also to reduce inefficiency. I hope to have this city make Sunny Mesa look like low land swamp. I have 1 former working away at connecting a nearby island to my continent. The island can hold about another 8 cities. Raising land is really great (new supply pods are a nice bonus). Sea bases are nice, but I like all my bases on 1 land mass. I use formers to accomplish that. I also usually automate 1-2 formers to remove fungus and 1-2 to 'plant' sensors. The computer does this pretty well if you dont allocate to many formers. Sometime I hope to make a huge 'V' on a map connected to the north or south pole. The 'V' will be land and inside the 'V' will be a huge area of ocean that is MINE ALL MINE. Formers are great. |
| Plato90s |
posted 06-03-99 10:13 AM ET
To create that ultimate energy city, don't forget to throw in some echelon mirrors. But a strange thing I've noticed is that raising/lowering terrain can cause a special square to disappear. I've raised terrain in the monsoon jungle and have a square which was previously jungle turn into an ordinary square. |
| Series II |
posted 06-03-99 10:41 AM ET
Forgot about the mirrors. Have not used mirrors much before. Maybe a ring adound the outside of the city. Can I put a mirror and a solar cell in the same square? Do you have a solar cell/mirrow pattern that functions well. I think that I will move a dozen formers to my U Flats city and really start forming. Also, I think that the Monsoon Jungle has to be low land moist swamp area. Raising could change the moisture/heat ratio to where the square can not support the jungle any more. |
| Gixxer |
posted 06-03-99 12:26 PM ET
dingwick, I'm guessing that MtG's training ground is to move his units to combat mindworm's in fungus to gain experince. Great strategy, even better with the Xenoempathy Dome Series II, FEF F-Farm/Solar Collector all this won't fit in a radius, but you get the general idea. Orient so that the farms are in the radius and build as many E-Mirrors Most of my bases will have one borehole, unless there is a mineral bonus square. Rocky and only rocky squares will get a mine/road with a supply crawler. No point in having a citizen work a square that will only produce one type of resource. The rocky squares outside any bases radius will also get the mine/road-crawler combo. I never, never farm and mine the same square. Each base will also get a condenser if there is not enough rainy squares. I never (with the exception immediately after planetfall) farm anything but rainy squares. All farmed areas get a solar collector as well. I rarely build more than one echelon mirror inside the base radius and only place it where it will benefit 3+ solar collectors. If I have idle formers, I may build echelon mirrors on the outside of the radius where it would reflect to several solar collectors inside the radius. These placed on the outside won't add to eco-damage at all. Everything else, which is roughly half, will get forested. The existence of forest squares will help with eco-damage. I will build tree farms at the first sign of pollution, and hybrid forests at my leisure I don't have a problem working fungus in a newly liberated base, but I rarely plant it myself. I try for the Xenoempathy Dome and will only build fungus as a defensive barrier, or to connect larger fields of fungus to mobilize troops to the front. Basically I follow these simple rules: I never have to replace an improvement, and by the time Tree Farms/Hybrid Forests come around, I can take advantage of them right away. Using this strategy, it is easy to tweak to maximize growth or production and still keep everyone fed and eco-damage to a minimum. |
| Gixxer |
posted 06-03-99 12:27 PM ET
dingwick, I'm guessing that MtG's training ground is to move his units to combat mindworm's in fungus to gain experince. Great strategy, even better with the Xenoempathy Dome Series II, FEF F-Farm/Solar Collector all this won't fit in a radius, but you get the general idea. Orient so that the farms are in the radius and build as many E-Mirrors Most of my bases will have one borehole, unless there is a mineral bonus square. Rocky and only rocky squares will get a mine/road with a supply crawler. No point in having a citizen work a square that will only produce one type of resource. The rocky squares outside any bases radius will also get the mine/road-crawler combo. I never, never farm and mine the same square. Each base will also get a condenser if there is not enough rainy squares. I never (with the exception immediately after planetfall) farm anything but rainy squares. All farmed areas get a solar collector as well. I rarely build more than one echelon mirror inside the base radius and only place it where it will benefit 3+ solar collectors. If I have idle formers, I may build echelon mirrors on the outside of the radius where it would reflect to several solar collectors inside the radius. These placed on the outside won't add to eco-damage at all. Everything else, which is roughly half, will get forested. The existence of forest squares will help with eco-damage. I will build tree farms at the first sign of pollution, and hybrid forests at my leisure I don't have a problem working fungus in a newly liberated base, but I rarely plant it myself. I try for the Xenoempathy Dome and will only build fungus as a defensive barrier, or to connect larger fields of fungus to mobilize troops to the front. Basically I follow these simple rules: I never have to replace an improvement, and by the time Tree Farms/Hybrid Forests come around, I can take advantage of them right away. Using this strategy, it is easy to tweak to maximize growth or production and still keep everyone fed and eco-damage to a minimum. |
| MichaeltheGreat |
posted 06-03-99 12:54 PM ET
Gixxer/Dingwick - gixxer's right about my strategy re the training ground. I always go for the command nexus and cyborg factory, so even as the gimpy PK's or Gaian's I can buil veteran units out of the box. I then send my mobile units over to the training ground (I build everything as trained scouts to crank 'em out fast, and then upgrade them - in psi warfare, armor and weapons don't count, and in case I lose a unit by accident, I'd rather lose a cheap one than an expensive one. Once in the training ground, I just move through all the fungus looking for wormies to kill - I get energy credits for every kill, and my units get combat experience. If I'm playing green, and have that unfortunate problem of capturing mind worms, I just use the action menu to turn them back into the wild (i.e. release control of them) I then ugprade the units to there combat configuration - at least plasma shard/neutronium by that point in the game. Plato 90 - Jungle is limited to low altitude, so if you raise it, it becomes the underlying land type. Although echelon mirrors are cool for the energy enhancement, they along with boreholes cause significant ecodamage, which the game seems to take into account regaedless of your cities' ecodamage ratings - it appears to me that there is a separate counter for echelon mirrors, condensors and boreholes, due to the climate alterations, and that counter is used to determine how active planet gets in the later game. You can read other threads on that topic. I build a couple of echelon mirrors in my headquarters city, which also does all the research oriented SP's and becomes a major research center, but I never build echelon mirrors otherwise, and amd very sparing with boreholes and condensors, as well. I also never have major problems with planet acting up, which can really ruin your day at transcend level. |
| HeatherWst |
posted 06-03-99 01:33 PM ET
About raising the land of the Uranium Flats... I tried that a few games ago, and yes, my uranium squares disappeared! In the early game, I start building forests in various places on my continent, so they can grow. Later in the game, when I'm ready to put a base there, most of my terraforming is done for me. I drill to aquifier as much as I can to get that added energy bonus. This just seems to work alot better for me (and looks prettier on the screen-ha ha) than trying to do everything else. My first few games, I rarely used forests, then I tried that tactic and saw a drastic improvement in how my game moved... |
| Gixxer |
posted 06-03-99 03:48 PM ET
I'm with you HeatherWst. I really dig how a river running through forests look. I had so many formers one time that I used fungus and forests and made stripes and checkerboard patterns around the Ruins area. It looked totally cool! |
| Plato90s |
posted 06-03-99 06:59 PM ET
In the end game, use as many mirrors and condensors as you feel like. With Hybrid Forest and Centauri Reserve, terraforming does no eco-damage. Since condensors increase nutrient output in the square it's on, it's a good idea to put condensors on nutrient squares. Mirrors can also be forest squares, but forests have to grow into them. But you can plant fungus on the same square as mirrors, so you can use fungus to make mirror squares productive. |
| Player of Games |
posted 06-03-99 11:58 PM ET
First I'd like to thank everyone for all the ideas so far. I thought I might have been on the right track, but it's always good to get a reality check. I noticed a thread somewhere around here (I think it was Series II's How to Be A Tree Hugger tutorial) in which someone mentioned that they were getting 3-3-3 production from fungus squares. The only way I can see that happening is if you're playing the Gaians, have all the necessary tech advances to get 2-2-2 from fungus (which gives 3-2-2 with the Gaian +1 nutrient) and then collect resources from a fungus square on Mount Planet (+1 mineral and energy). I don't even think fungus will grow in the volcanic squares. Anyway, I'd love if someone could explain the 3-3-3 trick to me. I've got another question on strategic preferences, but I think I'll go start another thread for this one. |
| Zakalwe |
posted 06-04-99 02:57 AM ET
Player of Games, You CAN get 3-3-3 (4-3-3 with Gaians) out of fungus, but the advances come very late in the game (can't remember the exact ones, I'm at work at the moment), so unless you are going for Transcendence victory, I doubt that you'll see them very often. Also, fungus does not spread normally on Mount Planet, but if you level the terrain to rolling, you can plant fungus on it. Zakalwe |
| Series II |
posted 06-04-99 08:20 AM ET
If you terraform up Unarium flats you do loose the Unarium bonus. So I moved over 16 formers and drilled to the aquafir in 16 squares. I got a lot of rivers there now. Planting farms, solar collectors, mirrors and condensors on one 'side' of the city - forest on the other. An interesting thing happened when I had the formers going. The city was ok as far as eco damage went (it was 0). However, toward the end of the formers drilling to the aquafir 1 large mind worms and a Locust showed up. The game is still really early. No one has discovered air power yet. I was able to attack the Locust with a ground unit. I did not think that I would be able to do that. |
| NoMercy |
posted 06-04-99 01:02 PM ET
I use the following pattern with echelon mirrors: ESESESE...... E - Echelon Mirror Neglecting altitude and resource square bonuses that gives (except for edges): Is this the most efficient way of creating an energy farm? |
| NoMercy |
posted 06-04-99 01:22 PM ET
Whoops something went wrong there! ESESE gives: 04040 (number is energy output) This is obviously a packing problem. |
| Plato90s |
posted 06-04-99 01:43 PM ET
The Locusts of Chiron follow some very strange rules. 1) You can't wipe out a stack of Locusts like a stack of Mindworms. You have to nail them one at a time, which is why an Empath Chopper is very useful until you get Voice of Planet. 2) Locusts are air units, but they can take over bases just like a Gravship. 3) Despite being air units, everyone can attack locusts, including land units and sea units. 4) Locusts are also allowed to attack air units, like a SAM unit. |
| Plato90s |
posted 06-04-99 01:45 PM ET
BTW, Zakalwe, you seem to be a bit off. Gaians only get 3-3-3 from xenofungus even after you get every single tech. Other factions get a max of 2-3-3, which makes fungus roughly equivalent to forests' 3-2-2. |
| Gixxer |
posted 06-04-99 01:59 PM ET
I don't know if it is the most efficient use, but keep in mind that echelon's cause eco-damage. I try not to put more than two inside the production radius of any one base. I try to leave at least half of the area to forest. My typical template, (well half of it anyway) O F F F O Where: When I have the opportunity, I will place more mirrors above the top row (outside the base radius) and where the "O's" are. This could warrant 6+ energy on one square depending on altitude. Instead of attempting to maximize all squares, try concentrating on maximizing 4-5 food producing squares. Once a base is at size most of the citizens should be employed as specialists anyway and you've wasted a majority of terraforming time on squares that aren't being worked anymore. |
| Earwicker |
posted 06-04-99 03:42 PM ET
It is rare that I build echelon mirrors or condensors. Too much damage early on. I go with forested landscape and the production it brings. With tree farms and kelp/tidal harnesses, I can get well-rounded bases that grow, produce, and feed the energy machine. Only when I get the monsoon jungle (which has happened only twice) will I put down a lot of farms and solar collectors. And then I miss the minerals. Micromanaging the formers drives me nuts just placing forests, roads/tubes, sensors, boreholes, and rivers. Having to do the drill with mirrors, collectors, raising land (which then monkeys around with my rivers' courses) gets too tiring. |
| Natguy |
posted 06-05-99 11:50 AM ET
Build Tree Farms and Hybrid Forests in all of your cities, and then blanket the land with trees. I rarely do much else, although I'll occasionally make a mountain for pur ego gratification. Oh, yeah...wait until you've built tree farms to forest, because without the tree farms, it's 1-2-2 (I think), which is usually less than before you forested, but with TF's it's 2-2-2 (again, I think) and with HF's it's 3-2-2. Lovely. |
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