posted 05-27-99 04:30 PM ET        

I have been playing the Spartans most recently, so here are my thoughts on them:

Spartan Federation:

They are, perhaps, the most versatile faction of them all. Only the absence of 'Wealth' from the social engineering hinders them, but, to a faction without an innate economic bonus--such as the Spartans--'Wealth' is usually unneccessary, for it offers only minimal advantage. If a Spartan wanted to go for the economic boost, 'Free Market' would be a much better choice offering the coveted +1 energy per square.

Spartans have a powerful early military advantage. I frequently find myself establishing numerous imperial protectorates over submissive factions. If spoils of war were on--which I rarely do--then a Spartan's power early in the game could be increased dramatically. (For instance, ever notice in CivII that the Mongolians, though they are militaristic and expansionist, manage to have a large empire, huge bases, lots of money, and lots of tech? They do this by having a large military infrastructure and can demand both money and tech from everybody early in the game).

I am also a builder, and I find that, as the game progresses, my core colonies become lazy, so I build them up a lot. However, I find that building city infrastructures effectively is somewhat more difficult for the Spartans than, say, the Morganites. This somewhat annoys me because I like large and powerful cities (if anyone could give me tips on how to do this, it would be much appreciated. I remember in Civ, all I had to do was switch to Democracy and set luxury to 100% and I would have an abundance of huge and powerful cities.).

On planets with large amounts of terrain, a Spartan can usually roam around with a large army and conquer all in his or her path. With planets filled largely with water, Spartans, with their 'Doctrine: Mobility' are just a step away from 'Doctrine: Flexibility.' Thus, they can usually establish a navy early on.

In the few later games that I have played, I find myself using--once I have discovered most of the tech--Fundamentalism/Green/Power/Cybernetics. I have heard that Spartans are not that good at Conquering (even though they were meant for it) in the late game because they do not have as powerful Psi units as, for instance, Deirdre. I've never encountered this problem--being that I have played few late games--so some feedback on that would be helpful.

posted 05-27-99 11:56 PM ET         

With the Hive, its imperative to exploit their strengths, ignore the weaknesses. First off, Hive has fast growth, especially early on. When played as POL/PL/WEALTH he has +3 industry. You should use wealth in peacetime, knoweledge in war, and only power if it gets serious, or if you have the Vats(which you will definately want if you get that far). Expand quickly. The industry and growth should easily take an expanding population. Grab as many SPs as you can. Especially Command Nexus, Cyborg Factory, Genome, and(maybe) Maritime Control Center.
Be certain to find your neighbors and make them surrender. Don't destroy them unless its Miriam(always kill that bitch), you can get lots of techs and cash that way.

Of course, if you just want a smother the planet in the fewest turns kinda game:
Being as you get the ability to build CN, build it as soon as you can. Get particle impactors and nerve gas rovers out to the battlefield as quickly as possible. Don't forget to expand as much as possible, constantly. And only plant forests. Use only Planned/Police/Knoweledge(or maybe Power, but I wouldn't recommend it) Ignore all other SPs, except for maybe Maritime CS if you're on water, and the genome if you've got the minerals, time, and tech(dont worry if you dont). You should be getting the goody SPs from others' bases. Nerve staple, obliterate bases, and obviously nerve gas the enemy to death. Basically, be as bad as possible.

All right, let me try to think of some examples of situations. In a building game the Empath Guild will help you get the governership(and actually get some profit from commerce), plus do the obvious trading and diplomacy. This is very important for Yang, as you will need to trade, buy, blackmail techs as much as possible in the early game if you want to stay on top of the tech race.

Find a nice sized, not too strong, peaceful faction like Morgan or UoP. Start hitting them hard, and change to their social engineering. Soon they should surrender, and you'll have someone to do your research and money making. This strategy works best with Yang, as he can organize and support an invasion much easier than can Santiago, at the same time expanding and building SPs.

Don't forget the Longetivity Vaccine. It is very powerful, as you get rid of two drones a base. Also use police. With Ascetic Virtues, Police State, and three clean police units, you can kill 9 drones right off the bat.

You will eventaully come up with the dilema of capturing many large, high inefficiency bases on the other side of the map. In this case, if you still want them to be productive, build only a punishment sphere, and a genejack factory, besides the obvious free structures and recycling tanks. Maybe an aero complex. Then stack 'em up with clean defenders, a clean former, and stockpile energy. You'll start rolling in the doe with a whole bunch of these operations going. this works best with Yang, due to his 0 efficiency rating, plus more conquered bases on average than other factions.

Of course, there is quite a bit of advice that works with all factions, but here's some situations that you'll be more likely to meet up with, with Yang.

As to difficulty and size, for the builder games I usually play Thinker or Transcend. For the quick kill games I always play Transcend.
I always use dry climate, large(if quick kill) or Huge(if builder) map sizes. Everything else I keep average. I often play on the huge map of Planet as well.

posted 05-28-99 07:43 AM ET            

First, using atrocity. I NEVER use nerve gas and PB playing Yang on hardest levels (Thinker and Transcend). With such huge support and industry it's quite easy to build uncountable army, and just press, press and press on any faction. Probably, I'm wrong, but it's impossible to surrender the faction (at least I never see this) when use atrosity against them.

Second. Knowledge at war time. As Yang you don't have efficiency bonus of this choice (if dont use Police/Green/Knowledge), but sweet -2 probe. Try this when you dont have HSA and staying at war with Morgan or PK: they buy your conquered bases the same turn.

Third. Power. As I understood you hate industry penalty. Me too, but I'd rather will use Power or Simple choice at war time then Knowledge. If I have Cl.Vats and can switch to Thought Control, Simple/Green/Power/TC is a choice.

posted 05-28-99 12:18 PM ET         

"Second. Knowledge at war time. As Yang you don't have efficiency bonus of this choice (if dont use Police/Green/Knowledge), but sweet -2 probe."

Why would you use green economics anyway? Why not used planned, you get the same efficiency, more growth, better industry, while with green you lose growth and only get a planet rating(who cares?)

Second, you said you never used atrocities on higher levels. If you remember, I was talking about my quick kill games. I have done expirementing, and while I don't usually bring out the gas in my first war, after that I go all out. The object is to kill the enemy as fast as possible, not giving them the time to build. At least, this has always worked better for me on Transcend. On build games I almost never use atrocities(except nerve staple on my bases if charter's been revoked) in order to get the puppet states. Exception-Miriam.

As to the probe rating, the research plus definately outdoes the probe rating. If you don't have HSA, build probe teams immediately, they're quick, maintenance free, and they still work if they die, in which case, you can kill the enemy and build a new team on the next turn. Of course, if your playing a long game, you should, no doubt get the HSA. I've also found out that on Transcend, 0 and -2 probe ratings don't have much difference when Morgan comes to buy back his base. You shouldn't find yourself swarmed by probes, either. If you have the Empath Guild, or an infiltrator, you can see which bases are building what. If you attack all at once, in a number of different areas, you shouldn't have any probe swarming troubles. Some players have even said HSA is not high priority, even with UoP, by using this tactic. I happen to disagree, but some feel more confident in it than I do, and it works like a charm.

As to Power's negative industry, it can render your largest bonus, industry, useless.
I'd much rather have the research and a +2 industry than the extra support and morale. Remember, a +2 morale only gives you one morale boost on offence, and you already have +2 support. Supporting four units free per base is not much worse than supporting up to base size, especially with smaller bases. Just switch support to conquered bases. I have used Power without the Vats before, but only when I was really desperate, and my infrastructure had collapsed. With the Vats, however, Power is by far the best choice in a serious war.

You also said:
"I'd rather will use Power or Simple choice at war time then Knowledge. If I have Cl.Vats and can switch to Thought Control, Simple/Green/Power/TC is a choice."

Why would you want a simple social choice at all?? I understand Simple/Green gives you +2 efficiency, but following my above advice you can overcome it. Plus, you're throwing away some of Yang's biggest advantages-no negative efficiency and high growth. With Police state/Planned, you get +3growth, +2industry, +2police, and +2support. Much better, especially if you're fighting a war. With Simple/Green, you get +2 efficiency, -1growth, +1 industry, and +2 planet. If you play him right, +2 efficiency can be just as useful as 0, and who gives about a positive planet rating?

At any rate, if you follow these tactics, you should definately do a LOT better with Yang.

posted 05-28-99 03:43 PM ET            

I have taken your suggestion, High Priest, and am now involved in a thinker game as the Hive. I am at the year 2196, and I am the most powerful faction:

Planetfall:
All around us, the land stretches, beyond the horizon. Forever, it seems. We have established underground facilities upon a small inlet of water on this harsh planet--hardly enough to call a 'sea.' Necessity overcomes idealism. Underground, we are safer. Underground we can mentally cast off the fears of the surface world--feel psychologicaly safer in the womb of Planet--and escape the eerie thoughts of Mindworms, Fungus, and the longing for our belov�d earth. The thrumming of society's pulse fills us with the understanding of the higher needs of the state. We must sacrifice our individual spirit and vitality for the good of the collective, for the survival of our species. Not long after Planetfall, a harsh police state was placed to rule over our people.

First Contact:
Since planetfall, we have been rampantly exploring the surrounding area. Our scouts confirmed that we were situated on a huge continent. Even still, it was not we who first made contact with another faction, but them. A sizable mindworm boal encroached one of our cities. Upon closer inspection, it could be seen that they were being driven by teams of human commandos.
They introduced themselves as representatives of the 'Gaian' faction led by the self-styled Lady Deirdre. The Gaians gave us commlink frequencies for the University of Planet and, not long thereafter, the Peacekeepers. Soon, we had established treaties with all three powers.

Mobilising for war:
At this point, the Hive was a decaying faction. The UoP had claimed dominance, and the Gaians and the Hive were teetering for second place. Expanding bases were constantly destroyed by mindworms, and the few bases that we had were small and pitifuly underdeveloped. Even with the construction of the Weather Paradigm and the authorisation to build numerous terraforming units, our bases lagged behind in growth and wealth. The only asset that we had was a potentially strong military. Currently, our military was both weak and scattered on exploration missions. The Gaians were above us, separated by an expanse of land, and the UoP was directly above the Gaians. Our northern most bases were authorised to begin construction of an Impact Rover (2-1-2) for impending war with the Gaian faction. The army was sent to skirt the borders of Gaian territory to try to provoke them into war. This failed, and diplomatic channels also failed to seriously provoke them into war. They had always had friendly relations with us, and this sudden change in attitude seemed unwarranted to them. Our rovers were given the command to enter Gaian territory and take control of their bases.

The Gaian War (circa 2165):
The first invasion force was a disaster. Pathetic Green Synthemetal Garrisons wiped out our rovers. During the course of the war, however, our scientists discovered a new, more powerful weapon. This rover had a 4-1-2 statistic. Our exhausted northern bases--which had been building numerous colony pods (all of which were destroyed)--began production again, and some of our core bases also switched into conquer mode. This new army proved much more successful, and Gaia's landing was ours within a short time.
At this time, our wealth and scientific integrity were falling at alarming rates. Our scientists reportedly turned out new technologies every 46 turns. We were receiving about 10 energy per turn. Even still, our scouts had turned up numerous treasures from Unity pods and thus, we were the richest faction. Our technology, however, was very low. Thus, we strove for unconditional surrender, and would accept nought else--just as Roosevelt strove for unconditional surrender of NAZI Germany. Though this dragged the war on, we were successful and the Gaians have now been established as our submissive pact siblings. With the protectorate over remaining Gaian territories, we received an abundance of new technologies and information.

The University of Planet War (circa 2185):
Now, our attention turned to the primary target. Unlike the Gaians, the University and the Hive have never had solid relations. Thus, it took little provocation for the University to declare war on the Hive. Though they were technologicaly stronger than the Gaians, they were weaker in Spirit. It took less of our pounding for them to submit to our will.

Now, we are the most powerful faction on Planet.

General Veracitas,
Supreme Commander of Hive forces

posted 05-29-99 09:12 PM ET            

Well, thanks for the comments. Any more out there? Other factions, perhaps?

posted 05-30-99 05:15 PM ET            

Which brings me to another point. Has anybody ever had the chance to win with an economic victory as the most expedient method over anything else? Usually, I find that diplomatic victory is the easiest, no matter what I play. A diplomatic victory and economic victory have the same number of points attached to them, so, I do not see the major advantage of cornering the global energy market. I tried to do it one time, just to see what would happen, and I was only a few turns away when my market crashed, bringing my money down from 10000 to 1200!

posted 05-30-99 07:09 PM ET            

Step one to Morgan Success:

Never stop expanding. I am playing a game on transcend and have aroun 75 bases. I am a close second to the hive. With all the bases you have you can gain tech quikly and money too.

Step 2:
Use the democratic/green/wealth/Eudamoninc(or Cyberetic for earlier in the game)
Sure it says free market is the objectiv yet that prove worthless. -5 police??? anyone see a problem with that.you spend more time fighting drones that making money.

Step 3: Get every possible Secret project to enhance native life. Morgan needs to use native life as a defense for succes. The morale is down from wealth so conventional units arent great.

Step 4: Buy friends. Who ever said friendship cant be bought did not play SMAC.
Give gifts eveery time you talk to a person.

Step 5: Just sit back improve you land with forests, and other infra structure type things and wait until the ascent to transcendence. You can take all your credits and buy it in 1 turn. Its sorta wimpy but some ones gotta do it.

posted 06-01-99 12:13 AM ET            

All these calculations for long builder games.

For short war games I use Police/Planned/Wealth, with this -2 morale bonus but +3 industry. As Hive I can build Command Nexus very fast, and all my rovers are green at least. Amount, not quality, wins in my games as Hive. When I start rover rush from the start, I really cant get HSA fast enough (only when 1 or 2 faction are still alive), and sometime (not very often) I cant prevent mind control of my base. So, -2 probe= � price, and an opponent can buy 2 times more things then with 0 probes.

About atrocities. I play with 'Do or Die' off, so cant win before 2200MY if use atrocities (they restart and dont want surrender).

About Power. It is very good choice, when you built huge army and need improve it. Simple switching to Power gets +1 morale status for all units= 1 or 2 fighting. Not bad by me.
New units with trained ability have at least commando status. OK, if you lucky, in 3-4 turns you get Elite troops. Elite troops with Power are MUCH better than Veterans (or Hardened) with Knowledge: ability to move twice compare to -20% price. At least, they are equal. Yeah, support is not so important that time, I am agree, but 3-4 more formers in central bases not so bad.

posted 06-01-99 01:13 AM ET            

I like Hive, as builder and as conquerer, and I like Gaians. Hive goes little slow on maps with 70-90% of water, but not Gaian.

+2 effic... I think, that effic and industry are most important things in this game. Industry is a quick production, units and big amount of SP. Some people like fast science in the start, but I prefer HUGE COLONY. So, I build colony pods as crazy. I like to occupy at least third part of planet. The higher effic the less drones in large empire. Gaian is the best faction for this.
When number of my bases is equal to sum of bases of all other players, I am happy :-). Even if UoP is better than me in tech, it is not so important. Probe teams and Fundy. In several turns I am leader in all fields.

Deidre is the most flexible girl IMO. Some people say that PK is better, but I dont use FM at all (sorry, only when playing Morgan), and like free choice in Politcs and Values.
I think, a map with abundant or avarege native life produces enough worms for 'worm farming' and these aliens help Deidre in her wars with Belivers (no +25% bonus) and Hive (doesnt matter, walls or not). Moreover, (Fundy-Police)/Green/Power gives very good troops. If I built Command Nexus, I produce trained troops, and they have Commando status.

I dont like Diplomatic victory (it's too easy) and usually go to military domination or Transcend project. In last case as Gaia I use Demo/Planned/(Wealth-Knowledge) for first half of game, till can get Cloning Vats. After this Demo/Green/Knowledge is useful. Worms on borders prevent military invasion, and help in permanent wars with some aggressive neighbours.

Other huge bonus of Gaian is +1 food in fungus. It helps when grow in nutrient-poor areas. Even starting location in Great Dunes is little less boring for Gaia then for other factions.

posted 06-02-99 03:05 PM ET         

Second, eco-damage can actually be very helpful in small amounts. The cash you get from worm tusks can fuel your entire infrustructure. As long as you have the Xeno-Dome and fungicide tanks on speeder formers, you shouldn't have a problem with fungus. I've found forests can fend for themselves quite well, too.

"About Power. It is very good choice, when you built huge army and need improve it. Simple switching to Power gets +1 morale status for all units= 1 or 2 fighting. Not bad by me.
New units with trained ability have at least commando status. OK, if you lucky, in 3-4 turns you get Elite troops. Elite troops with Power are MUCH better than Veterans (or Hardened) with Knowledge: ability to move twice compare to -20% price. At least, they are equal. "

I rarely use the so-called coveted +2 morale on defense, I think its practically worthless. Fundy is a much better choice for morale. All right, you say that troops are equal(in number & morale) with Power and Knoweledge, and that support doesn't really matter. So I suppose, if I understand what you are saying, that Power is worthless compared to Knoweledge. Your armies might be equal, but your building of SPs and structures certainly is not, especially the valuable conquered city structures. Plus your research rate doesn't get the boost it normally would. So you get slower reasearch for getting new and better weapons and less capability to build SPs that can boost morale. Plus you can easily overcome the probe rating with infantry probes, very cheap. Try it and see.

This passage is also somewhat contradictory to your first statement:

"For short war games I use Police/Planned/Wealth, with this -2 morale bonus but +3 industry. As Hive I can build Command Nexus very fast, and all my rovers are green at least. Amount, not quality, wins in my games as Hive."

hmmmm...
It seems you agree with my points more than I do. I won't even go that direction.

At any rate, I hope you can straighten some of these things out for me.

posted 06-02-99 04:32 PM ET            

Your tactic:
"First of all, Green does not stop a market crash. I've never had more than one crash in a game, so I don't believe you can."

Your are VERY lucky. After several games, when I lost ~80-90% of cash (several thousands by the way), I stoped to maintain huge reserve, and buy everything if have more than 400-500 energy in pocket. But if you read the post carefully (I think you read), I DIDN'T TALK ABOUT SIMPLE SWITCHING TO GREEN. No, only Police/Green/Knowledge, with +1 effic.

Once, when I lost all research points two times in ~15 years (with research speed every 4 turns), I switched to that combo, and this pleasure finished. Maybe, efficiency doesn't play so huge role in this process (yeah, the same happend to me when played Gaia at Fundy/Green/Power), but I avoided it that game, and in latest games too. I think, high efficiency does such phenomena little less boring.

Sorry, Veracitas, we're going out of topic but this discussion about strategy for very, very good conquer faction (and great builder, BTW, that I'll try to show in MP :-)).

What do you think, people, if you will put such mark: 'This strat is good for Tiny map, 70% landmass', or 'I think, that this faction is very nice at wars on Huge map, 70% sea, abundant/rare worms'?

P.S. High Priest, what do you think about new topic like 'Have as builder' to discuss other strats, not conquer? Of course, I saw discussions, which compared conquer and build but this is more specific. Or put your new notes to 'How to play the Hive well - Q and A' I'll check it.

P.P.S. Speeder Probes are cheap enough for Hive, 1-2 turns don't mean anything serious. And Probes, which cant counter-attack (or just attack), are waste of time, money, et. Reading posts about defenders with probe ability, I built 0-2-1 Trance Probes, but found them useless (all probes die if no more usual troops in base).

P.P.P.S. When you have only two alive factions left, just switch to Power, and buissnes will go faster. Such factions often very far from your heart (I mean your empire ;-)) and it's difficult to fight them with Hardened troops.

P.P.P.P.S. Have you used Fundy as Hive??? 'I fear these drones... Where is Police??!!'

posted 06-02-99 06:50 PM ET         

Pick a faction you totally hate and would never play. Now change that faction (using ACedit is the easiest way) to suit your needs. Then go thru all of the other factions and remove a couple of their negative points.

In my current game, I toasted the PK and made them into an idustrialized nation. I went thru each of the other factions, and either strengthened one of their bonuses or reduced a negative. Some examples:

Spartans: I gave them the 25% fanatic bonus and an extra rover

Gains: gave them a terraformer to start and better bonuses for using fungus squares

Believers: 2 probe teams to start

Morgan: raised his pop limit by 1 and one random faction frequency

Univeristy: raised pop to cause drone by 1 and took away one of his minus to probe

Hive: Gave them an extra colony pod to start

Now, some of you are gonna say this makes all of them too powerful. Not true, actually it makes it fair. Now the computer can actually do a decent job and make the game a challenge without having to rely on the various game changes which take place at higher levels (lower cost for things, more drones for human players, etc).

Each of the factions still have their relative strengths and can be played the same way, but the computer does much better job of using them.

posted 06-10-99 11:02 PM ET            

Below, I have listed ambiguous 'goals' that each faction--characteristic to their philosophy and inherent abilities--would strive for.

UoP:
ideology based - transcendence
pragmatic - diplomatic

Gaians:
ideology based - transcendence
pragmatic - diplomatic

PK:
ideology based - diplomatic
pragmatic - diplomatic

Sparta:
ideology based - conquer the world
pragmatic - diplomatic

Hive:
ideology based - transcendence
pragmatic - diplomatic

Believers:
ideology based - conquer
pragmatic - diplomatic

Morgan:
ideology based - corner market
pragmatic - diplomatic

Hmm...looks like the pragmatic reasons didn't come out right. They were all diplomatic (the easiest victory), which would have saved me some writing, but, what's done is done. Any arguments? Arbitrations to be held?

posted 06-14-99 01:14 PM ET            

Strength lies in +1 economy. Get the income. You can avoid free market - go for wealth instead (you can offset -2 Morale with Command centres/CN and Bioenhancement Centre/CF and Aerospace Complex and Naval Yard/MCC). Expand rapidly and collect money. Build SPs like crazy. Ascetic Virtues important (+2 does make a difference). Force as many hostile factions to submit as possible (you will also do lots of trade with them, trade is v. good for Morgan). And throw cash around like crazy (treat your bases to critical projects fast).

posted 09-15-99 07:18 PM ET            

But for most of the time with the hive, use the efficiency immunity. Go with Police State/Planned/Wealth/Eudomonia.

Anywayze, as crazy as this game got (Transcend, Iron Man, Abundant life), I got quite a nice score, 3800%.