A little war 'o mine... - Alpha Centauri Forums

  Alpha Centauri Forums
  Strategies and Tactics
  A little war 'o mine...

profile | register | prefs | faq | search

Author Topic:   A little war 'o mine...

atatange posted 05-19-99 10:57 PM ET
Forgive me if this post isn't very good for it is my first. I played as UoP on a huge map on medium difficulty. This was a random map that turned out to be mostly water and islands. I landed one of the larger islands and there was no-one else on it so I set up my research and minimized the army. I also set-up as many bases as allowed for maximum proficiency. On the West were the Morgans, He contacted me first, by this time I was the richest and had most tech. We formed a treaty. Later, to my south I met the Giains. We became Pact brothers and I used Green eco. and I think it's great. Because of me using Green, Morgan became mad at me and pronounced Vendetta. So we went to war, Well I went to him, he actually never built any boats I had some transport foils and other early watercraft. So I pounded his shores while loading up my foils. I was only able to capture one of Morgans bases w/ the original force but that was enough. He made peace with me. So now I'm the most powerful and in a pact w/ the 2nd most powerful Giains and treaty w/ the mediocre Morgans. This is when I acquire the SP where I get all com. Frequencies and become Planetary Gov. I also form treaty�s with everyone. A little later, It is just myself and the Hive as the super powers. And since I was in a pact with Giains I had to help them with there war vs the peacekeepers I know regret this as the Giains now have little power, the peacekeepers aren�t that strong but better then the Giains. Then all of a sudden, the unprovoked Hive pronounce Vendetta upon me. So I send out my Chaos Cruisers which just roll past everything since I am so ahead in tech and capture 2 of his sea bases. That lead to a treaty between me and the hive. The Hive is now growing as powerful as me not by tech or money but pop. And number of bases they are all clumped together right by a mediocre faction the Spartans which are now on a roll and gaining great strength. They too, clump there bases together and are right by the Hive. The Hive and Spartans are in the bottom left while I am in the top middle surrounded to the left by the now WEAK Morgan(ally) and to the South by the Mediocre Peacekeepers(foe) and my pact sister the growing weak Giains(ally). So getting attacked IS NOT an issue on the main island, but not even that much in the sea bases in Hive and Spartan territory. And probes don�t matter �cuz I got the Hunter-Seeker SP. So now It�s just a matter of unclumping the Hive. Any ideas? I just got Tachyon equipment so�Oh by the way Miriam is on a little island in the southern right all by herself and has done nothing and has no power. I never get attacked and no-one can get past my Navy. So, any suggestions? Or, just do what is working taking there bases with my advanced troops and dominating the seas? Thanks for any input�I�ll keep you updated.
fishin_buddy posted 05-19-99 11:42 PM ET
You might try and take a costal city of the Hive. Then land lots o' units to defend.
Now send over some neadle jets. With them you should be able to quench and opisition and try and destroy his mines and roads. That will slow production and transportation. Think NATO.
With this strat you may be able to avoid a war too quickly and allow you to gain an even greater tech advantage.
Also you may want to try and get the Gians and belivers to fight each other by using probe teams and blaming another faction.
Sounds like you are doing well but when you are ahead do not let others breath keep the pressure on. The AI has a way of cheating and catching up.
If you get too big they may also gang up on you...so be ready to take on all 6.
Another Suggestion-when you post use Blank lines and returns to make it more readable.
See ya at the LAKE
sandworm posted 05-20-99 05:28 PM ET
Take the Hive out, FIRST. I once had Yang as a conquered pact brother, and I bought all of his new size bases as soon as they were built, keeping him at about five total, enough to funnel me a new tech or unit once in a while, but never enough to rival me in military power. Then sunspots knocked out communications for 20 years. Twenty years later he has built about ten new bases and a horde of troops rivaling my own. He no longer cares to be a submissive pact brother, and declares vendetta the first year. It took forever to beat him, and I had to capture him to do it. Its always best to eliminate the greatest threat first if you can handle it.
If you spend time conquering the Peacekeepers and avoid Yang, he'll only get stronger. I don't think I've seen any of the other factions expand faster than the Hive, I'm tempted to actually start playing them to avoid dealing with them (if you can't beat them, join them, but for now I'm beating then.)
One more suggestion, if the Gaians are really in danger of elimination, and you'd like to keep them around, gift them a couple of smaller Hive cities when you capture them.
Plato90s posted 05-20-99 06:29 PM ET
I make a habit of giving captured small bases which are poorly situated to allies. I don't want to bother administering such small cities and it's an easy way to pick up extra commerce.
As for your Hive situation, make sure any invasion you stage is a knockout punch. Giving the AI time to respond is a terrible idea. So concentrate on sea units first. Make enough cruisers that you can guarantee the Hive can't invade you. Now start with land units. You want to load up enough units to be a self-sustaining army. Attack units along with garrison units to hold the cities you capture. As you produce native units, your Elite garrison units can move forward with your main force. Hit an outlier city first, wait a couple of turns while the reserves are mobilized, and then hit his core cities. Those are the ones worth keeping and can serve as a base for future operations.
jhankla posted 05-20-99 06:52 PM ET
When the AI decides Yang or Miriams going to be power players it goes though every convolution of the rules it can to do just that. The best ploy you can do against them is NOT make peace the first time your enemy asks for it. Just don't answer the phone and keep up the conquest!
Ploy two is turning off "Destorying base considered atrosity" in the Alpha.txt file and weeding Yang bases to where they don't interfer with each other growth. Better yet, in most cases just destroying them to allow units to continue the conquest by bashing a base until it's empty, putting your worst off unit in to capture to gain the heal and blow it away with "B". Then move on to the next!
Miraim, Yang and Morgan bases are NASTY eco bases and will cause problems with planet if left as is. Build new ones and clean up the act. Watch for a red notice on the terrain screen that says "Endangered." Yang loves to mine or otherwise molest there squares and that's the AI's excuse to turn them into Mindworm Mines later when the planet starts to wake up before the VoP comes on line.
Wolf Dreamer posted 05-21-99 01:34 AM ET
Whats with this sea units nonsense? I always just concentrate on grabbing all the land in my reach and then building up and defending them until I can get air power. Then I crush everyone who stands against me. I never have any real naval force.
After the other factions are eliminated, I am usually left with either the Hive or Miriam as the last faction to fight. I usually play the gaians however I am now playing the Hive. I killed the Believers early on and reduced the Morgans and the University to submissive and use them for tech research. They hand over anything new as soon as I contact them. Occassionally I have to demand or buy a base from the ever trying to expand Morgans, but the University is happy with their one base and have used their few units to fight along side with me whenever I ask.
Anyway, we all seem to play with different strategies, and as long as they work... uh... in the end each man must choose his own path. Yeah, that sounded intellegent... screw it. I'm rambling.
I would sugest my favorite tactic of bombing the heck out of your enemies mines and roads, and gas everyone to death whenever possible. But to each his own.
PrinceBimz posted 05-21-99 09:51 PM ET
Wolf Dreamer, I think naval power rules. If you happen to start on a small island how do you get off of it early without ships? How do you take over sea bases? Can't do it with air or land so you need ships.
So really it all depends on the map setup. On some maps I can't do without a navy and on others I can get away with just a small navy.
Plato90s posted 05-21-99 10:06 PM ET
There is nothing like a cruiser transport to deliver a big force immediately to an enemy front. Two transports can deliver up to 16 units, a force to be contended with.
Transport with marines onboard can also pull a hit and run [attack from ship and then retreat to a nearby seabase in the same turn].
Igor posted 05-26-99 10:42 AM ET
What about cruiser transport with fusion reactor? Put 8 Marines, go from your own base to the nearest coastal enemy city and attack 8 times. Then return back to ur base the same turn and stay for one more turn to repair troops. Then repeat. Fastest way to defeat bases I ever used. Somebody likes copters, but AAA units are a pain for air attackers. This tactic works great against Hive and Believers, with their huge garrison in every city.
rem63 posted 05-27-99 12:52 PM ET
If you are close enough to an opponent, you might try building up an arsenal of conventional missiles, and pound your opponent with a huge missile salvo just before an invasion.
I find if I can wipe out the defenses of a coastal city with a barrage of missiles, then any remaining missiles can be used to terrorize neighbouring cities to keep them weak, and prevent them from sending reinforcements.
At this point, unload a transport in and around the defenseless city.
My personal favourite unit is a mindworm boil. Cheap to produce usually, and really good if you have good psi and planet rqatings. Drop in the Dream Twister and Neural amplifier and you're humming.
MichaeltheGreat posted 05-28-99 01:11 AM ET
I've had a weird situation a couple of times with the Hive, where they have been a very powerful faction - too much for me to invade, but by slaughtering lots of their transports and bombarding their infrastructure with lots of ships, they folded the moment another faction declared war on them - Yang asks to talk, gets submissive and asks to be my pact brother, then never bothers me again.
If you have a tech advantage, stick to naval warfare for a while, and build enough ships so that you can task half to sea lane control (i.e. ship and transport killing) and half to dismantling his infrastructure.
The way I go after someone's infrastructure is pretty organized - get three to six ships, and concentrate on one city at a time - doing a little damage to everyone is no big deal, but if you really do a number on one city, you remove it as an effective contributor to his power for a long time. I also go after one end of his territory for bombardment, and go after the other end for invasion - they usually respond to bombardment by moving a lot of troops around.
It's great if you can get strike aircraft within range, and make a point of KILLING HIS FORMERS MERCILESSLY!!! - he can't rebuild farms, mines, and sensors without formers. Anything else you kill just damages your aircraft, since this is a distraction.
My preferred killing tool, when I get to the appropriate techs, is about six hovertanks, with shard or better weapons, armor of silksteel or better, and cloaking device and deep radar special abilities - land them away from his cities, and use the cloaking and mobility to hit him hard, when he has no idea what hit him - then do the next city, etc. - A concentrated force like that, with a couple of ships to bombard and soften up the city defenders if they can reach the city, and you'll go through any AI player and fold 'em right up. The weakness in Civ military AI, which hasn't been fixed here, is that the computer player has no real concept of force/space ratios and the concentration/dispersal of force.
If you hit him in one place with overwhelming firepower, he just collapses.
Series II posted 05-28-99 08:32 AM ET
I have to disagree with destroying his formers. Every former that you leave alive is one more mineral in support that your enemy's remaining cities have to pay. I find that you can cripple production by leaving units that an do you little or no damage alive.
When you take a city any units that were supported by that city are transfered to the next city. That city is probably the next one you are about take over next turn.
Col Crap posted 05-28-99 01:32 PM ET
What are yall talking about.. NAVAL POWER RULES. You can control the world with a huge navy.I played a game once were i had about 30
Chaos Crusiers surrounding my island and i never ever got attacked(early game)!
I always have a big navy.
Col. Crap
DilithiumDad posted 06-02-99 03:55 PM ET
I agree about leaving formers. They don't hurt you. One thing to watch for --once the AI realizes that you aren't taking out formers, he'll hide probe teams or other units under them for sneak attacks, so query the square with the former in it (this is an example of pretty smart AI, IMHO).
To close this thread, click here (moderator or admin only).


Hop to:

Contact Us | Alpha Centauri Home

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Version 5.18
© Madrona Park, Inc., 1998.

Author	Topic: A little war 'o mine...
atatange	posted 05-19-99 10:57 PM ET Forgive me if this post isn't very good for it is my first. I played as UoP on a huge map on medium difficulty. This was a random map that turned out to be mostly water and islands. I landed one of the larger islands and there was no-one else on it so I set up my research and minimized the army. I also set-up as many bases as allowed for maximum proficiency. On the West were the Morgans, He contacted me first, by this time I was the richest and had most tech. We formed a treaty. Later, to my south I met the Giains. We became Pact brothers and I used Green eco. and I think it's great. Because of me using Green, Morgan became mad at me and pronounced Vendetta. So we went to war, Well I went to him, he actually never built any boats I had some transport foils and other early watercraft. So I pounded his shores while loading up my foils. I was only able to capture one of Morgans bases w/ the original force but that was enough. He made peace with me. So now I'm the most powerful and in a pact w/ the 2nd most powerful Giains and treaty w/ the mediocre Morgans. This is when I acquire the SP where I get all com. Frequencies and become Planetary Gov. I also form treaty�s with everyone. A little later, It is just myself and the Hive as the super powers. And since I was in a pact with Giains I had to help them with there war vs the peacekeepers I know regret this as the Giains now have little power, the peacekeepers aren�t that strong but better then the Giains. Then all of a sudden, the unprovoked Hive pronounce Vendetta upon me. So I send out my Chaos Cruisers which just roll past everything since I am so ahead in tech and capture 2 of his sea bases. That lead to a treaty between me and the hive. The Hive is now growing as powerful as me not by tech or money but pop. And number of bases they are all clumped together right by a mediocre faction the Spartans which are now on a roll and gaining great strength. They too, clump there bases together and are right by the Hive. The Hive and Spartans are in the bottom left while I am in the top middle surrounded to the left by the now WEAK Morgan(ally) and to the South by the Mediocre Peacekeepers(foe) and my pact sister the growing weak Giains(ally). So getting attacked IS NOT an issue on the main island, but not even that much in the sea bases in Hive and Spartan territory. And probes don�t matter �cuz I got the Hunter-Seeker SP. So now It�s just a matter of unclumping the Hive. Any ideas? I just got Tachyon equipment so�Oh by the way Miriam is on a little island in the southern right all by herself and has done nothing and has no power. I never get attacked and no-one can get past my Navy. So, any suggestions? Or, just do what is working taking there bases with my advanced troops and dominating the seas? Thanks for any input�I�ll keep you updated.
fishin_buddy	posted 05-19-99 11:42 PM ET You might try and take a costal city of the Hive. Then land lots o' units to defend. Now send over some neadle jets. With them you should be able to quench and opisition and try and destroy his mines and roads. That will slow production and transportation. Think NATO. With this strat you may be able to avoid a war too quickly and allow you to gain an even greater tech advantage. Also you may want to try and get the Gians and belivers to fight each other by using probe teams and blaming another faction. Sounds like you are doing well but when you are ahead do not let others breath keep the pressure on. The AI has a way of cheating and catching up. If you get too big they may also gang up on you...so be ready to take on all 6. Another Suggestion-when you post use Blank lines and returns to make it more readable. See ya at the LAKE
sandworm	posted 05-20-99 05:28 PM ET Take the Hive out, FIRST. I once had Yang as a conquered pact brother, and I bought all of his new size bases as soon as they were built, keeping him at about five total, enough to funnel me a new tech or unit once in a while, but never enough to rival me in military power. Then sunspots knocked out communications for 20 years. Twenty years later he has built about ten new bases and a horde of troops rivaling my own. He no longer cares to be a submissive pact brother, and declares vendetta the first year. It took forever to beat him, and I had to capture him to do it. Its always best to eliminate the greatest threat first if you can handle it. If you spend time conquering the Peacekeepers and avoid Yang, he'll only get stronger. I don't think I've seen any of the other factions expand faster than the Hive, I'm tempted to actually start playing them to avoid dealing with them (if you can't beat them, join them, but for now I'm beating then.) One more suggestion, if the Gaians are really in danger of elimination, and you'd like to keep them around, gift them a couple of smaller Hive cities when you capture them.
Plato90s	posted 05-20-99 06:29 PM ET I make a habit of giving captured small bases which are poorly situated to allies. I don't want to bother administering such small cities and it's an easy way to pick up extra commerce. As for your Hive situation, make sure any invasion you stage is a knockout punch. Giving the AI time to respond is a terrible idea. So concentrate on sea units first. Make enough cruisers that you can guarantee the Hive can't invade you. Now start with land units. You want to load up enough units to be a self-sustaining army. Attack units along with garrison units to hold the cities you capture. As you produce native units, your Elite garrison units can move forward with your main force. Hit an outlier city first, wait a couple of turns while the reserves are mobilized, and then hit his core cities. Those are the ones worth keeping and can serve as a base for future operations.
jhankla	posted 05-20-99 06:52 PM ET When the AI decides Yang or Miriams going to be power players it goes though every convolution of the rules it can to do just that. The best ploy you can do against them is NOT make peace the first time your enemy asks for it. Just don't answer the phone and keep up the conquest! Ploy two is turning off "Destorying base considered atrosity" in the Alpha.txt file and weeding Yang bases to where they don't interfer with each other growth. Better yet, in most cases just destroying them to allow units to continue the conquest by bashing a base until it's empty, putting your worst off unit in to capture to gain the heal and blow it away with "B". Then move on to the next! Miraim, Yang and Morgan bases are NASTY eco bases and will cause problems with planet if left as is. Build new ones and clean up the act. Watch for a red notice on the terrain screen that says "Endangered." Yang loves to mine or otherwise molest there squares and that's the AI's excuse to turn them into Mindworm Mines later when the planet starts to wake up before the VoP comes on line.
Wolf Dreamer	posted 05-21-99 01:34 AM ET Whats with this sea units nonsense? I always just concentrate on grabbing all the land in my reach and then building up and defending them until I can get air power. Then I crush everyone who stands against me. I never have any real naval force. After the other factions are eliminated, I am usually left with either the Hive or Miriam as the last faction to fight. I usually play the gaians however I am now playing the Hive. I killed the Believers early on and reduced the Morgans and the University to submissive and use them for tech research. They hand over anything new as soon as I contact them. Occassionally I have to demand or buy a base from the ever trying to expand Morgans, but the University is happy with their one base and have used their few units to fight along side with me whenever I ask. Anyway, we all seem to play with different strategies, and as long as they work... uh... in the end each man must choose his own path. Yeah, that sounded intellegent... screw it. I'm rambling. I would sugest my favorite tactic of bombing the heck out of your enemies mines and roads, and gas everyone to death whenever possible. But to each his own.
PrinceBimz	posted 05-21-99 09:51 PM ET Wolf Dreamer, I think naval power rules. If you happen to start on a small island how do you get off of it early without ships? How do you take over sea bases? Can't do it with air or land so you need ships. So really it all depends on the map setup. On some maps I can't do without a navy and on others I can get away with just a small navy.
Plato90s	posted 05-21-99 10:06 PM ET There is nothing like a cruiser transport to deliver a big force immediately to an enemy front. Two transports can deliver up to 16 units, a force to be contended with. Transport with marines onboard can also pull a hit and run [attack from ship and then retreat to a nearby seabase in the same turn].
Igor	posted 05-26-99 10:42 AM ET What about cruiser transport with fusion reactor? Put 8 Marines, go from your own base to the nearest coastal enemy city and attack 8 times. Then return back to ur base the same turn and stay for one more turn to repair troops. Then repeat. Fastest way to defeat bases I ever used. Somebody likes copters, but AAA units are a pain for air attackers. This tactic works great against Hive and Believers, with their huge garrison in every city.
rem63	posted 05-27-99 12:52 PM ET If you are close enough to an opponent, you might try building up an arsenal of conventional missiles, and pound your opponent with a huge missile salvo just before an invasion. I find if I can wipe out the defenses of a coastal city with a barrage of missiles, then any remaining missiles can be used to terrorize neighbouring cities to keep them weak, and prevent them from sending reinforcements. At this point, unload a transport in and around the defenseless city. My personal favourite unit is a mindworm boil. Cheap to produce usually, and really good if you have good psi and planet rqatings. Drop in the Dream Twister and Neural amplifier and you're humming.
MichaeltheGreat	posted 05-28-99 01:11 AM ET I've had a weird situation a couple of times with the Hive, where they have been a very powerful faction - too much for me to invade, but by slaughtering lots of their transports and bombarding their infrastructure with lots of ships, they folded the moment another faction declared war on them - Yang asks to talk, gets submissive and asks to be my pact brother, then never bothers me again. If you have a tech advantage, stick to naval warfare for a while, and build enough ships so that you can task half to sea lane control (i.e. ship and transport killing) and half to dismantling his infrastructure. The way I go after someone's infrastructure is pretty organized - get three to six ships, and concentrate on one city at a time - doing a little damage to everyone is no big deal, but if you really do a number on one city, you remove it as an effective contributor to his power for a long time. I also go after one end of his territory for bombardment, and go after the other end for invasion - they usually respond to bombardment by moving a lot of troops around. It's great if you can get strike aircraft within range, and make a point of KILLING HIS FORMERS MERCILESSLY!!! - he can't rebuild farms, mines, and sensors without formers. Anything else you kill just damages your aircraft, since this is a distraction. My preferred killing tool, when I get to the appropriate techs, is about six hovertanks, with shard or better weapons, armor of silksteel or better, and cloaking device and deep radar special abilities - land them away from his cities, and use the cloaking and mobility to hit him hard, when he has no idea what hit him - then do the next city, etc. - A concentrated force like that, with a couple of ships to bombard and soften up the city defenders if they can reach the city, and you'll go through any AI player and fold 'em right up. The weakness in Civ military AI, which hasn't been fixed here, is that the computer player has no real concept of force/space ratios and the concentration/dispersal of force. If you hit him in one place with overwhelming firepower, he just collapses.
Series II	posted 05-28-99 08:32 AM ET I have to disagree with destroying his formers. Every former that you leave alive is one more mineral in support that your enemy's remaining cities have to pay. I find that you can cripple production by leaving units that an do you little or no damage alive. When you take a city any units that were supported by that city are transfered to the next city. That city is probably the next one you are about take over next turn.
Col Crap	posted 05-28-99 01:32 PM ET What are yall talking about.. NAVAL POWER RULES. You can control the world with a huge navy.I played a game once were i had about 30 Chaos Crusiers surrounding my island and i never ever got attacked(early game)! I always have a big navy. Col. Crap
DilithiumDad	posted 06-02-99 03:55 PM ET I agree about leaving formers. They don't hurt you. One thing to watch for --once the AI realizes that you aren't taking out formers, he'll hide probe teams or other units under them for sneak attacks, so query the square with the former in it (this is an example of pretty smart AI, IMHO).