Who needs sea bases? Land bases RULE!!! :)

  Alpha Centauri Forums
  Strategies and Tactics
  Who needs sea bases? Land bases RULE!!! :)

profile | register | prefs | faq | search

Author Topic:   Who needs sea bases? Land bases RULE!!! :)

wtiger posted 05-05-99 11:26 PM ET
For those of you inclined to build sea bases( for the energy ), I have a better suggestion. Why don't you Terraform Up, slap a sensor on that newly-raised plot of land, and build a LAND base! Stack a few AAA units, probes and the odd artillery piece or two (for any pesky naval unit that tries to bombard) and you have a nearly-invincible semi-sea base that can be attacked only by marines and air units. How about that?
Oh, and BTW, I don't consider probes as an attack unit, although they can be used in much the same way.
wtiger posted 05-05-99 11:27 PM ET
Drat, no in the topic....
Al Gore Rythm posted 05-06-99 09:16 AM ET
You can't raise terrain inside a base square, so this is impossible unless you merely connect the sea base to an existing continent.
Ghost posted 05-06-99 01:42 PM ET
Unless you terraform way up (which is a valid strat), the sea base will produce more energy early on. A near sea level ground base is not very good in comparison with a sea base. Once you get super forests, things start to change, but till then, sea bases are excellent.
wtiger posted 05-06-99 11:28 PM ET
Okay, let me rephrase my original post....
1. Pick a nice, watery spot where you ordinarily would put a sea base.
2. Get a bunch of sea formers out there and Terraform Up until it becomes a small spot of land.
3. (Optional) Plant a sensor there.
4. Get a colony pod over there (needlejet/copter colony pods work best) and build a base.
5. Grab a few AAA units, probes and artillery units and stuff them into your newly-found (land) base.
6. Add additional units as necessary.
TIP: You can build a base on a sensor square. The sensor will still give the +25% defence bonus, and furthermore, it can't be destroyed by bombardment.
Now, you have a land base with all the functionality of a sea base but with all the advantages listed above in my original post. A bit slower perhaps but has more value. Comments?
PrinceBimz posted 05-07-99 05:13 AM ET
Isn't it very expensive to terraform like that? I am not sure if I understand the way terraforming by raising and lowering the land works. I know when I tried it once I think it was like 14,000 energy or something just to lower it one level. I never really tried to use the terraforming feature like that before because it was WAY to expensive.
Urban Ranger posted 05-07-99 08:18 AM ET
It seems the cost for raising or lowering terrain is determined by the proximity to your closest base and whether you are doing it inside your border.
Tin Man posted 05-07-99 08:28 AM ET
Actually, you cannot use Sea Formers to raise land from water. Since the Formers raise the square they are sitting on, the Sea Formers cannot raise the square to make land.
I would disagree with the principle of not wanting sea bases at all.
For a start, I tend to play on a high water planet so you run out of land fairly quickly (although I do tend to use Terraforming to raise the land to join my small land masses into a single sprawling continent.)
The other good reason is something the AI has been doing against me a couple of times. Build Sea Bases right on the Coast, even better in little inlets, and you get the production from the land squares. BUT, until someone gets Amphibious Pods they're harder to capture in the early game, when they most vulnerable.
By the time someone gets Amphibious Pods onto their ground units, you should have had time to build up the defenses on the cities.
Finally, on Costs for Terraforming. The cost to terraform up/down seems to be based on the area effected, and is also increased if it would alter terrain in another factions territory.
So raising an already high mountain square would cost alot since it will have to pull up all of the neighbouring squares. Raising a sea-side square to pull the neighbouring square out of the sea can be costing as little as 10 energy.
Kilroy posted 05-07-99 02:33 PM ET
I'm not a huge fan of sea bases, but they do have their uses. Primarily, sea bases are the only way to mark off 'territorial waters'. Deploying a navy in a free market without at least one or two sea bases is an utter nightmare, as navies within territorial waters do not count as being outside of your home territory. This also lets you 'demand withdrawls' from hostile naval units. Usually three or four strategically places sea bases is all one needs
CS posted 05-07-99 03:22 PM ET
Another good thing about sea bases is that if you are on high water world, they work great to just place a base add some minor defense, and just use them as a waypoint for aircraft and ship, and to repair damaged units. Though sea bases are nice if you place them of shore or in a place like the geothermal shallows.
Al Gore Rythm posted 05-08-99 11:18 AM ET
wtiger, I think you need to actually practice what you preach before, well, preaching it.
This is three times now you have had inconsistances that show you have never actually done this.
Sea Formers, as was mentioned before, cannot raise land.
Secondly, when you do raise land you raise the square where the former is AND all surrounding squares. Therefore, making a single-cell island is impossible unless it is there naturally, and then it won't be long until Planet (or a rival) sends the small island into the sea.
And as I mentioned, you can't raise land in a base, which is the only way you could raise an island up in the middle of the ocean unconnected to another continent.
So next time try actually doing stuff before you post it.
ApcJK posted 05-09-99 11:55 AM ET
It's possible to raise a single cell island by raising the terrain and then lowering around it.
Vinny posted 05-09-99 02:50 PM ET
Yeah, but sea formers can't do this so you have to get gravships, which is at the end of the game, and pay for all this terraforming to get a land base with no surrounding land squares.
Va1en posted 05-09-99 05:59 PM ET
I personally like to use sea bases as stopping points for my jets and 'copters. They can sit at the city to heal quickly, attack, return, heal...
It works well, and the city can produce MORE air ships!
This works even better latter onwhen you have sats and such that add to your industry.
wtiger posted 05-10-99 01:07 AM ET
Well, Al Gore, you're perfectly correct in your observations.....
I confess for my sins.....
To close this thread, click here (moderator or admin only).


Hop to:

Contact Us | Alpha Centauri Home

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Version 5.18
© Madrona Park, Inc., 1998.

Author	Topic: Who needs sea bases? Land bases RULE!!! :)
wtiger	posted 05-05-99 11:26 PM ET For those of you inclined to build sea bases( for the energy ), I have a better suggestion. Why don't you Terraform Up, slap a sensor on that newly-raised plot of land, and build a LAND base! Stack a few AAA units, probes and the odd artillery piece or two (for any pesky naval unit that tries to bombard) and you have a nearly-invincible semi-sea base that can be attacked only by marines and air units. How about that? Oh, and BTW, I don't consider probes as an attack unit, although they can be used in much the same way.
wtiger	posted 05-05-99 11:27 PM ET Drat, no in the topic....
Al Gore Rythm	posted 05-06-99 09:16 AM ET You can't raise terrain inside a base square, so this is impossible unless you merely connect the sea base to an existing continent.
Ghost	posted 05-06-99 01:42 PM ET Unless you terraform way up (which is a valid strat), the sea base will produce more energy early on. A near sea level ground base is not very good in comparison with a sea base. Once you get super forests, things start to change, but till then, sea bases are excellent.
wtiger	posted 05-06-99 11:28 PM ET Okay, let me rephrase my original post.... 1. Pick a nice, watery spot where you ordinarily would put a sea base. 2. Get a bunch of sea formers out there and Terraform Up until it becomes a small spot of land. 3. (Optional) Plant a sensor there. 4. Get a colony pod over there (needlejet/copter colony pods work best) and build a base. 5. Grab a few AAA units, probes and artillery units and stuff them into your newly-found (land) base. 6. Add additional units as necessary. TIP: You can build a base on a sensor square. The sensor will still give the +25% defence bonus, and furthermore, it can't be destroyed by bombardment. Now, you have a land base with all the functionality of a sea base but with all the advantages listed above in my original post. A bit slower perhaps but has more value. Comments?
PrinceBimz	posted 05-07-99 05:13 AM ET Isn't it very expensive to terraform like that? I am not sure if I understand the way terraforming by raising and lowering the land works. I know when I tried it once I think it was like 14,000 energy or something just to lower it one level. I never really tried to use the terraforming feature like that before because it was WAY to expensive.
Urban Ranger	posted 05-07-99 08:18 AM ET It seems the cost for raising or lowering terrain is determined by the proximity to your closest base and whether you are doing it inside your border.
Tin Man	posted 05-07-99 08:28 AM ET Actually, you cannot use Sea Formers to raise land from water. Since the Formers raise the square they are sitting on, the Sea Formers cannot raise the square to make land. I would disagree with the principle of not wanting sea bases at all. For a start, I tend to play on a high water planet so you run out of land fairly quickly (although I do tend to use Terraforming to raise the land to join my small land masses into a single sprawling continent.) The other good reason is something the AI has been doing against me a couple of times. Build Sea Bases right on the Coast, even better in little inlets, and you get the production from the land squares. BUT, until someone gets Amphibious Pods they're harder to capture in the early game, when they most vulnerable. By the time someone gets Amphibious Pods onto their ground units, you should have had time to build up the defenses on the cities. Finally, on Costs for Terraforming. The cost to terraform up/down seems to be based on the area effected, and is also increased if it would alter terrain in another factions territory. So raising an already high mountain square would cost alot since it will have to pull up all of the neighbouring squares. Raising a sea-side square to pull the neighbouring square out of the sea can be costing as little as 10 energy.
Kilroy	posted 05-07-99 02:33 PM ET I'm not a huge fan of sea bases, but they do have their uses. Primarily, sea bases are the only way to mark off 'territorial waters'. Deploying a navy in a free market without at least one or two sea bases is an utter nightmare, as navies within territorial waters do not count as being outside of your home territory. This also lets you 'demand withdrawls' from hostile naval units. Usually three or four strategically places sea bases is all one needs
CS	posted 05-07-99 03:22 PM ET Another good thing about sea bases is that if you are on high water world, they work great to just place a base add some minor defense, and just use them as a waypoint for aircraft and ship, and to repair damaged units. Though sea bases are nice if you place them of shore or in a place like the geothermal shallows.
Al Gore Rythm	posted 05-08-99 11:18 AM ET wtiger, I think you need to actually practice what you preach before, well, preaching it. This is three times now you have had inconsistances that show you have never actually done this. Sea Formers, as was mentioned before, cannot raise land. Secondly, when you do raise land you raise the square where the former is AND all surrounding squares. Therefore, making a single-cell island is impossible unless it is there naturally, and then it won't be long until Planet (or a rival) sends the small island into the sea. And as I mentioned, you can't raise land in a base, which is the only way you could raise an island up in the middle of the ocean unconnected to another continent. So next time try actually doing stuff before you post it.
ApcJK	posted 05-09-99 11:55 AM ET It's possible to raise a single cell island by raising the terrain and then lowering around it.
Vinny	posted 05-09-99 02:50 PM ET Yeah, but sea formers can't do this so you have to get gravships, which is at the end of the game, and pay for all this terraforming to get a land base with no surrounding land squares.
Va1en	posted 05-09-99 05:59 PM ET I personally like to use sea bases as stopping points for my jets and 'copters. They can sit at the city to heal quickly, attack, return, heal... It works well, and the city can produce MORE air ships! This works even better latter onwhen you have sats and such that add to your industry.
wtiger	posted 05-10-99 01:07 AM ET Well, Al Gore, you're perfectly correct in your observations..... I confess for my sins.....