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Author Topic:   Submission of the WIMPS!!

jgmagnus posted 05-03-99 07:02 PM ET
How in the world do I force people into Submission?? I try to communicate with them (right or left click under comm-links) and they ignore me! (the bastards )
Also, when I DO get through to them THEY demand from me even though I am kicking their ass uterly. What's up with that?? If they can't repel me, shouldn't I be able to make demands on THEM instead of the other way around??
HolyWarrior posted 05-03-99 10:46 PM ET
I hate this part of the game, but if you change Social Engineering to match the faction you want to submit, they'll do so.
Then you can switch back to as you were.
Cameleon posted 05-04-99 10:02 AM ET
But you'll still have to fight them until _they_ call _you_, and then accept none of their offers until they either say they will crush you (yeah right) or surrender. This usually (depending on se settings and such) requires taking at least 5 cities in my experience. But it's fun if the AI is giving you some 1-2-1 units when you are building those 24-12 gravships
sandworm posted 05-04-99 10:48 AM ET
Playing on thinker, I've noticed that every time an enemy unit moves adjacent to one of mine, the turn after I've captured a city, they contact me. Also happens during my turn if I move one of my units next to him after capturing a city.
still learning to avoid run-on sentences,
sandworm
Submachinegun posted 05-08-99 10:00 PM ET
Playing Librarian, sometimes enemy factions are listed as
"submissive", even though I have never waged war on
them, and they are not offering pacts or anything... weird.
BTW, how do you now when to press "ENTER" to avoid lines from getting
too long in these forums? Just asking.
jimmytrick posted 05-08-99 11:21 PM ET
I've had factions submit without firing a shot, they will do so if they are weak and need protection. Matching SE does seem to help this along.
Wolf Dreamer posted 05-09-99 12:37 AM ET
To determ military strength, don't they just count the number of military units regardless of power? If I had a few hundred scout patrols 1-1, could I bluff everyone?
Plato90s posted 05-09-99 06:10 AM ET
No, you can't. There is actually a good description of the formula in the various text files in your SMAC directory. I think this one is under alpha.txt, but I'd have to check.
To simplify, each military unit is assigned a value which counts toward your overall rating. The value is weighed by the cost of construction - which is directly proportional to how advanced the unit is.
For example, a Impact Rover 4-1-2 is worth more than a Scout rover 1-1-2.
eladamir posted 05-09-99 02:24 PM ET
Something very odd happened to me on my last Gaian game. For 200 turns I did nothing including no diplomacy, then for 50 turns I was in peace with everybody, then Yang declared war on me. So, naturally, I Planet Bustered almost all of him. Everybody declared war, so I planet bustered them too, having a little help from Locusts of Chiron.
Yang and Corazon are left and I call for diplomacy victory, they've 250 votes while I've 2000 and I win, but they defy the will of the counsil, refuse to do a pact with me and I've to win as Transcendent victory.
All of this happened on Librarian level...
ZuluMenace25 posted 05-11-99 04:40 PM ET
I have a question on submissives. I was playing as morgan. Yang and I were like the 2nd and 3rd most powerful factions. Actually we were almost equal and flipped flopped alot. Yang had at least 70% of his cities as sea bases. After awhile I began to systematically take out his cities one by one. After about the 4th or 5th city fell Yang came on the commlink and announced his surrender. The next turns I began making demands, all of which he rejected.
I'm thinking what the &%*@ is this?!? Didn't he just surrender to me? Isn't he supposed to be my "submissive" pact brother now to do my bidding? I'm I missing something?
Submachinegun posted 05-11-99 09:42 PM ET
I think this has to do with Yangs personality. The believers and the Hive seem to
be less prone to threats, even when seriously out-gunned. I have seen Miriam reject
my demands when I have been right outside her last city (with no defenders).
Submachinegun posted 05-11-99 09:43 PM ET
I think this has to do with Yangs personality. The believers and the Hive seem to
be less prone to threats, even when seriously out-gunned. I have seen Miriam reject
my demands when I have been right outside her last city (with no defenders).
Submachinegun posted 05-11-99 09:46 PM ET
Sorry about the double posting, but the forum seemed to ignore me, so I pressed STOP and
then submit again. No response. I press the back button on my browser and...
double posting...
jgmagnus posted 05-12-99 10:46 PM ET

Yeah, for me Miriam never surrendered so I killed her. Then YANG surrenders and it's not worth crap! He won't help me fight any fights I want or anything. It's crazy. You're better off just killing him in my opinion. He's an ass.
Travathian posted 05-13-99 01:26 AM ET
Try demanding cities from him and offer nothing in return, I've done this until he has only a few left. Also, send in probe teams to insight drone riots first (blame it on another faction) so the faction leader will be more likely to give it away. Plus the fact that they will go to war with that faction.
drako posted 05-15-99 02:16 AM ET
From wat I know, there are 2 ways of getting them to submit.
1) Take over their cities and eventually they will contact u and just say no to all their threats & peace offerings & finally they will surrender....
2) If u have a treaty of friendship with the faction, contact them (moving a unit to their cities or through commlink) and propose a pact of brotherhood. When ask wat u are going to give back in return, choose the 'crush u like a bug' option. If u are powerful enough, they will instanly become submissive......
HolyWarrior posted 05-16-99 12:54 AM ET
Oh, and another thing I've noticed--
If you've ever committed atrocity on them (doesn't matter whether the Charter is active or not), they will NEVER surrender to you.
Submachinegun posted 05-16-99 08:06 PM ET
Draco, your statement is not entirely correct. I have seen Miriam say no to threats
like that, when she only had one city, and I had over 20! She just says "is that a threat? blah blah...)
drako posted 05-18-99 02:44 AM ET
Submachinegun
True.....Miriam & Hive are extremely hard to get to surrender... but it works for the other factions (strangely Deidre also doesnt surrender easily)
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Author	Topic: Submission of the WIMPS!!
jgmagnus	posted 05-03-99 07:02 PM ET How in the world do I force people into Submission?? I try to communicate with them (right or left click under comm-links) and they ignore me! (the bastards ) Also, when I DO get through to them THEY demand from me even though I am kicking their ass uterly. What's up with that?? If they can't repel me, shouldn't I be able to make demands on THEM instead of the other way around??
HolyWarrior	posted 05-03-99 10:46 PM ET I hate this part of the game, but if you change Social Engineering to match the faction you want to submit, they'll do so. Then you can switch back to as you were.
Cameleon	posted 05-04-99 10:02 AM ET But you'll still have to fight them until _they_ call _you_, and then accept none of their offers until they either say they will crush you (yeah right) or surrender. This usually (depending on se settings and such) requires taking at least 5 cities in my experience. But it's fun if the AI is giving you some 1-2-1 units when you are building those 24-12 gravships
sandworm	posted 05-04-99 10:48 AM ET Playing on thinker, I've noticed that every time an enemy unit moves adjacent to one of mine, the turn after I've captured a city, they contact me. Also happens during my turn if I move one of my units next to him after capturing a city. still learning to avoid run-on sentences, sandworm
Submachinegun	posted 05-08-99 10:00 PM ET Playing Librarian, sometimes enemy factions are listed as "submissive", even though I have never waged war on them, and they are not offering pacts or anything... weird. BTW, how do you now when to press "ENTER" to avoid lines from getting too long in these forums? Just asking.
jimmytrick	posted 05-08-99 11:21 PM ET I've had factions submit without firing a shot, they will do so if they are weak and need protection. Matching SE does seem to help this along.
Wolf Dreamer	posted 05-09-99 12:37 AM ET To determ military strength, don't they just count the number of military units regardless of power? If I had a few hundred scout patrols 1-1, could I bluff everyone?
Plato90s	posted 05-09-99 06:10 AM ET No, you can't. There is actually a good description of the formula in the various text files in your SMAC directory. I think this one is under alpha.txt, but I'd have to check. To simplify, each military unit is assigned a value which counts toward your overall rating. The value is weighed by the cost of construction - which is directly proportional to how advanced the unit is. For example, a Impact Rover 4-1-2 is worth more than a Scout rover 1-1-2.
eladamir	posted 05-09-99 02:24 PM ET Something very odd happened to me on my last Gaian game. For 200 turns I did nothing including no diplomacy, then for 50 turns I was in peace with everybody, then Yang declared war on me. So, naturally, I Planet Bustered almost all of him. Everybody declared war, so I planet bustered them too, having a little help from Locusts of Chiron. Yang and Corazon are left and I call for diplomacy victory, they've 250 votes while I've 2000 and I win, but they defy the will of the counsil, refuse to do a pact with me and I've to win as Transcendent victory. All of this happened on Librarian level...
ZuluMenace25	posted 05-11-99 04:40 PM ET I have a question on submissives. I was playing as morgan. Yang and I were like the 2nd and 3rd most powerful factions. Actually we were almost equal and flipped flopped alot. Yang had at least 70% of his cities as sea bases. After awhile I began to systematically take out his cities one by one. After about the 4th or 5th city fell Yang came on the commlink and announced his surrender. The next turns I began making demands, all of which he rejected. I'm thinking what the &%*@ is this?!? Didn't he just surrender to me? Isn't he supposed to be my "submissive" pact brother now to do my bidding? I'm I missing something?
Submachinegun	posted 05-11-99 09:42 PM ET I think this has to do with Yangs personality. The believers and the Hive seem to be less prone to threats, even when seriously out-gunned. I have seen Miriam reject my demands when I have been right outside her last city (with no defenders).
Submachinegun	posted 05-11-99 09:43 PM ET I think this has to do with Yangs personality. The believers and the Hive seem to be less prone to threats, even when seriously out-gunned. I have seen Miriam reject my demands when I have been right outside her last city (with no defenders).
Submachinegun	posted 05-11-99 09:46 PM ET Sorry about the double posting, but the forum seemed to ignore me, so I pressed STOP and then submit again. No response. I press the back button on my browser and... double posting...
jgmagnus	posted 05-12-99 10:46 PM ET Yeah, for me Miriam never surrendered so I killed her. Then YANG surrenders and it's not worth crap! He won't help me fight any fights I want or anything. It's crazy. You're better off just killing him in my opinion. He's an ass.
Travathian	posted 05-13-99 01:26 AM ET Try demanding cities from him and offer nothing in return, I've done this until he has only a few left. Also, send in probe teams to insight drone riots first (blame it on another faction) so the faction leader will be more likely to give it away. Plus the fact that they will go to war with that faction.
drako	posted 05-15-99 02:16 AM ET From wat I know, there are 2 ways of getting them to submit. 1) Take over their cities and eventually they will contact u and just say no to all their threats & peace offerings & finally they will surrender.... 2) If u have a treaty of friendship with the faction, contact them (moving a unit to their cities or through commlink) and propose a pact of brotherhood. When ask wat u are going to give back in return, choose the 'crush u like a bug' option. If u are powerful enough, they will instanly become submissive......
HolyWarrior	posted 05-16-99 12:54 AM ET Oh, and another thing I've noticed-- If you've ever committed atrocity on them (doesn't matter whether the Charter is active or not), they will NEVER surrender to you.
Submachinegun	posted 05-16-99 08:06 PM ET Draco, your statement is not entirely correct. I have seen Miriam say no to threats like that, when she only had one city, and I had over 20! She just says "is that a threat? blah blah...)
drako	posted 05-18-99 02:44 AM ET Submachinegun True.....Miriam & Hive are extremely hard to get to surrender... but it works for the other factions (strangely Deidre also doesnt surrender easily)