Am I being ANAL? - Alpha Centauri Forums

  Alpha Centauri Forums
  Strategies and Tactics
  Am I being ANAL?

profile | register | prefs | faq | search

Author Topic:   Am I being ANAL?

Big Country posted 04-27-99 09:53 PM ET
Okay. First I have to let you know that am an avid strategy game player. I loved the Warcraft, Starcraft and Master of Orion Series of games. Unfortunately, I never played the Civilization series or the Railroad Tycoon games. I bought SMAC about a month ago, and at first I was extremely frustrated.
I thought that the user interface was incredibly difficult compared to Master of Orion or Starcraft. I realize that the game is a bit more complex than those other games, but I thought the manual and tutorials were not much help. Has anyone figured out a quicker way to "micro-manage" bases. I am looking for some type of strategy where I can tell a new base to build certain buildings in a certain order. I have almost the same exact order every time (esp. in the end game), and scrolling throught the list of 200 possible things to build every freaking time just to set the que bites! I don't suppose there is any type of "macro" is there? I hate using the Governers - they pretty much suck. Maybe if I had played Civilization before SMAC, I would have been more accustomed to the interface.
Anyway, I know this is off-topic, but is anyone else annoyed that most of the posts appear twice on this BB? And does anyone else play SMAC in 1024x768 video mode and have to adjust the size of the screen (move it to the right) every time the game starts? Man, am I ANAL or what?
Atombomb posted 04-27-99 10:30 PM ET
heh...maybe you need to read up on the build part of the manual, sounds like your just too lazy to find out for yourself how to do the commands....its something called queue, just like in starcraft. Right in the area where you select what to build there are a bunch of little queue buttons all numbered out. From there you make your sequence.
Big Country posted 04-28-99 01:13 AM ET
heh...maybe you need to reread my original post..I know how to set the queue (again, see the original post)..I just don't like the interface...when there are 40-50 items to choose from, even setting the queue can be burdensome - especially when you have 30 to 40 freaking bases...again, I like the game, I just would like to see some improvements on game play...you are right, though, I probably am too lazy, and if the interface isn't improved in future versions, I probably won't buy another SMAC-based game, oh well..if anyone has something constructive to point out, as in how to avoid the cumbersome queue setting every time a new base is formed (man, wouldn't it be nice to be able to "preset" queues so that you could set up one or two typical queues for new bases -- and maybe it would automatically update certain units in the queues as more technologically advanced units become available -- for example, if you preset the queue so that you always build a defender first, then the defender could be automatically updated when you get better armor) I would appreciate it...this is probably just a pipe dream..I had the same issue with MOO2
Lord Biggun posted 04-28-99 02:07 AM ET
Preset queus are in fact possible. rite click the queu button or whatever in the base screen, and load and save preset queus to your liking...
Goobmeister posted 04-28-99 10:49 AM ET
Yopu can also go to prefrences and turn off the auto design of units, it really cuts down on the number of units.
Just don't be like me the first time you do this and keep wondering why sea formers haven't been developed yet.
Goob
Earwicker posted 04-28-99 11:04 AM ET
Or click "Retire Design" as it comes up if you aren't planning on building any. That way, you see what's available and can always go back and redesign it later if your needs change.
Cadrys posted 04-28-99 03:42 PM ET
Prune obsolete or useless designs in your workshop regularly. Turn off auto-design. That keeps the menu of buildable things to a single screen, easily dealt with.
Zozo posted 04-28-99 06:38 PM ET
Big Country is right on the money here. The !@^&#^@ unit build selection is what I hate the most. Having a relatively slow computer makes scrolling through the long list of units to build unbearable. I always try to finish the game before 2350 just so I don't have to deal with the headache.
The one most glaring defect is that these units are not sorted in any order. In Civ2, all the ground units are next to each other from the cheapest to the most expensive units, then all the naval units together, all the air units, then all the miscellaneous units (spies & caravans), etc. In SMAC, they scatter all over the places it takes several minutes just to search for the units you want to put in the queue even when you know for sure that it is in the list somewhere.
On my system, which is relatively slow, scrolling these units up and down has a delay of several seconds and so by the time I see the unit I want and click on it the screen would scroll and cause me to click on the wrong unit. Sometimes when I'm not careful I would be building something I have absolutely no need for because of this delayed scrolling.
The big number of units makes the matter worse, but the issue is not as much as the number of units as a pretty much braindead interface.
THe very first time I played SMAC I just wished that it only had a text interface (which would undoubtedly be fast to scroll) for me to select the units. All I need to see is something like "Amphibious chaos invaders (8~-4-1)" not rows ofter rows of black boxes which run up and down on their own (due to the delayed scrolling) and which all look alike in the first place. I still need to read the tiny little characters to select the units I want, not the graphics representation of those units which are all alike.
And, if anybody has tried to use the Workshop to make some units obsolete and reduce the number of displayed units then it would be clear that this design is braindead. Each of the units is attached to a _fixed_ design slot in no particular order in the row of unit design at the botton of the screen. Whoever designed this UI must have thought human mind works like this: "I want to obsolete the Missile Infantry which, of course, I know is attached to slot #37, so let's search for slot #37 and make that design obsolete" instead of this: "I want to obsolete the Missile Infantry so let's see where the group of Infantry units are so I can find that design".
BTW, back to being helpful, the way I tried to mitigate this problem is to cut down on the number of auto-desgined units substantially the moment they are offered, keeping only a few units I'm almost certain that I will need and make obsolete the rest of them right then. That will give me one or two units to build the prototypes for but won't clutter up the unit display.
Big Country posted 04-28-99 07:19 PM ET
WOW!!! Preset queues??? I'll try it out! And I hadn't thought of turning off auto-design. Thank a million guys!
dawgchild posted 04-28-99 10:54 PM ET
big country... this is off the subject. but in hearing that you've played moo2... i'd like to know your(and anyone else that had played it) opinion on the game. i bought pax imperia when it came out and i was EXTREMELY dissapointed with it. the game was fully hyped up and i was waiting for pax imperia for the longest time and when i purchased the damned thing sucked like hell so i returned it. i'm thinking of buying moo2 coz it's now cheaper but i wouldn't wanna waste my time if it's exactly like pax imperia. thanks in advance.
Big Country posted 04-29-99 12:52 AM ET
Just tried the preset queues -- awesome. It really speeded up gameplay -- as I was taking two or three of Miriam's bases a turn! Now, if I could just get that Santiago B*TCH to stop Planet Busting my home base! Man, I need those orbital satellite thingies!
With regard to MOO2, I thought it was the best game I has ever played when it first came out. It is still a fun game today -- especially if you like the MOO1.
By the way, is anyone else disappointed in the cinematics of SMAC? MOO2 had some nice cut scenes, but Starcraft blows the doors off SMAC when it comes to story line and cool movies. SMAC is clearly a better strategy game (man is it complex!), but I would really like to see more aspects to the game -- especially when you win! Man, was I disappointed when I conquered everyone for the first time, and basically got a screen saying "I won."
Plato90s posted 04-29-99 11:05 AM ET
Pre-set queues?
I know you can set up a queue of up to 8 additional production items, and military unit production is always in an infinite loop unless otherwise specified. But if there is a way I can save a queue for reuse in other cities with a single click, I'd like to know.
Earwicker posted 04-29-99 11:34 AM ET
Enter the list of items you'd like, then right click on the Queue box, Save. In another city, right-click and Load the pre-set. You can even make a number of different queue lists for cities with different needs (one list for new bases, another for new sea-bases, another for old bases when you want a bunch of bases building a newly-available facility).
Bad Explanation posted 05-01-99 02:08 PM ET
****EASY WAY TO PRUNE UNITS FROM THE PRODUCTION SCREEN****
Right -click on them. A menu with the option "make unit obsolete" appears. Select it, and viola!
One thing I've learned in this game; if I'm frustrated with something, try right-clicking on it. I was really frustrated with doing all that queue-building also, then I right-clicked on the queue and found out I could save and load whole lists! Then the really slow production screen was getting on my nerves--I'd spend a lot of time pruning it down for speed by selecting every unit, clicking 'workshop', making the unit obsolete, then going back and doing the same thing to all the other unwanted units. This took a lot of time and the unit list just got longer and longer anyway. But then I started right-clikcing, and now it's really really easy to keep my list small and manageable. This should be somewhere under a 'tips' section, because it's handy short cuts like this that can make the difference between a fun time and a aggravation-fest.
Plato90s posted 05-01-99 04:02 PM ET
Another really annoying feature is that the AI is too stupid to automatically retire units. We have only 64 slots, and you'd think the AI could automatically remove unit designs which are obsolete and have no active units. Instead, I have to manually remove them to clear up more slots.
Zozo posted 05-03-99 05:18 PM ET
Bad Explanation,
Thanks so much. This would make life much easier and maybe I can continue with the second half of the game rather than trying to finish ASAP by becoming the Supreme Leader in the early part of 2300's to avoid the headache of updating/pruning the units. One would have thought that the main Workshop menu would have a straightforward way to prune the units, especially since Fixrasis does recognize the problem with having too many units and recommend autoprune to be on (that's totally inadequate, BTW).
Plato90s,
Yesterday, I tried to upgrade the missile needlejet, which I got by mind-controlling a Hive city, to a fusion needlejet and it says that I have no advanced models available. I was really baffled so I looked at the Workshop screen and it turned out that the AI removed ALL of my aircraft models from the list, leaving behind such nice fancy antique units as the impact infantry. I spent between half an hour and an hour to go through the unit list and remove the old units which I never used in the first place. It's a terrible chore in something which is intended for entertaiment.
BTW, I also pruned the scout rover and every time I make a new discovery, the program keeps trying to add the scout rover back, claiming that it is a new design !!
BTW, I just can't understand why the graphis is so incredibly slow on my system (maybe it happens on other systems too but I don't know). I can play Starcraft and have hundreds of units moving around fighting each others in real time and there is no slowdown. Just moving a single unit from one place to another in SMAC is a real pain. It seems like the AI engine tries to update its whole database everytime the unit moves a single square. Checking for ZOC alone couldn't be that bad since all other units are stationary.
dawgchild posted 05-03-99 11:40 PM ET
big country... smac or moo2? which would you rather get if you can only have one. you are right about some of the cinematics in smac. there's not enough cut scenes when you win!!! after spending so much time to beat it... the last thing i want to do is read how i've won. as for the story line... nothing beats starcraft. i was really impressed with its features and really cool and very unique story.
sandals posted 05-04-99 02:19 PM ET
Zozo- To prune out old designs faster, bring up the queue list like you are going to build stuff, then right click on the obsolete designs & select 'obsolete.' It just takes a minute or two to prune a bunch of old designs.
The slider handle on the right doesn't update correctly after that (v3), but I just find that a minor annoyance & got used to it.
Big Country posted 05-04-99 07:48 PM ET
Dawgchild -
I would probably select SMAC over MOO2, but you have to realize that SMAC is MUCH MORE DIFFICULT to master than MOO2. If you have a short patience, then MOO2 might be the better choice.
If I were rating the games on just winning one time, I would rate StarCraft far above any other strategy game. But the replayability award goes to SMAC hands down. Choosing among 7 factions makes the game very interesting to me.
dawgchild posted 05-05-99 12:46 AM ET
big country... well yeah replayability for smac is one of it's best features just like civ2... but realism on the other hand... well it's not that great. the plot of it's story is somewhat unlikely to happen in a colonization mission. why send a religious fanatic... a c.e.o.?!?... and a friggin mad scientist? didn't the u.n. screen their colonization candidates or they just picked people off the streets? one more thing is why would anyone want to kill their ship captain?!? ignoring the story line though... i pretty much enjoy the game but i think that civ2 is better than this.
Lloyd posted 05-05-99 04:59 AM ET
Big Country: Comparing the flavor presentation in Starcraft with SMAC is difficult because the pace and presentation of the games is so different. One similarity, though: I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of the content in both games, and still am. If you get a chance to check out CivII, you'll see what I mean--the only eye candy are the Wonder of the World movies in a tiny little video window. In a series of related games that focuses on strategy gameplay, I think SMAC is an enormous upgrade where flavor's concerned. I also think that the overall feel of the game (the "story") hangs together very well--better than expected. That's an area where Blizzard eats almost everyone else's lunch, so it's no insult to SMAC to call Starcraft better in that way. It's also about taste and what people are accustomed to seeing--I know a lot of people who share your opinion about Starcraft, but I don't entirely agree. It's good, but that "Larry King Live" talking-head setup got on my nerves after a while.
CivII was a game that I was still dusting off and playing every few weeks almost three years after buying it. I hope you enjoy SMAC as much.
dawgchild: Yeah, you're right--when the U.N. chose the thousands of people for the crew, they clearly should have made sure that after the disaster, the seven people who led the factions all agreed with each other. Let somebody have a story conceit once in a while.
Lloyd George

dawgchild posted 05-06-99 12:24 AM ET
lloyd... if i remember correctly... they only started forming factions after the disaster. those 7 leaders i guess were the top members of the colonization effort but i couldn't understand why they would have such extreme "views" and that they differ so greatly from one another.
Lloyd posted 05-06-99 06:41 AM ET
That's what I thought was odd, dawgchild--by definition, the U.N. doesn't *choose* the faction leaders, since they're not sending the Ark to AC to start a 7-way rumble that will play well as a PC game. It's a story conceit--yeah, it's more likely that if the reactor failed, everyone would just die, but I didn't sign up to play that game. Thankfully, Firaxis and I are apparently on the same page where that's concerned.
Are you that guy who complained that the Americans aren't a civilization in 2000 B.C. and that Eleanor Roosevelt could never live for 4000 years? Go play some ASL if you're going to be that way...
Lloyd
dawgchild posted 05-06-99 07:38 PM ET
lloyd... well first of... i am being what way?!? i was just talking about it's realism compared to civ 2 and starcraft. at least in civ 2 the americans "could have been" there and they don't have to be any existing nation that we know of. ... and a reactor failure doesn't necessarily mean death but the last thing that can happen when facing such crisis is someone saying... "ok those who loves nature come with me and those who love to be ruled by an iron hand and be opressed, go with yang!" for sixty bucks a game firaxis could've at least gave more of an effort on it's story line. don't get me wrong i love the game play i was merely stating that it could've been better.
To close this thread, click here (moderator or admin only).


Hop to:

Contact Us | Alpha Centauri Home

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Version 5.18
© Madrona Park, Inc., 1998.

Author	Topic: Am I being ANAL?
Big Country	posted 04-27-99 09:53 PM ET Okay. First I have to let you know that am an avid strategy game player. I loved the Warcraft, Starcraft and Master of Orion Series of games. Unfortunately, I never played the Civilization series or the Railroad Tycoon games. I bought SMAC about a month ago, and at first I was extremely frustrated. I thought that the user interface was incredibly difficult compared to Master of Orion or Starcraft. I realize that the game is a bit more complex than those other games, but I thought the manual and tutorials were not much help. Has anyone figured out a quicker way to "micro-manage" bases. I am looking for some type of strategy where I can tell a new base to build certain buildings in a certain order. I have almost the same exact order every time (esp. in the end game), and scrolling throught the list of 200 possible things to build every freaking time just to set the que bites! I don't suppose there is any type of "macro" is there? I hate using the Governers - they pretty much suck. Maybe if I had played Civilization before SMAC, I would have been more accustomed to the interface. Anyway, I know this is off-topic, but is anyone else annoyed that most of the posts appear twice on this BB? And does anyone else play SMAC in 1024x768 video mode and have to adjust the size of the screen (move it to the right) every time the game starts? Man, am I ANAL or what?
Atombomb	posted 04-27-99 10:30 PM ET heh...maybe you need to read up on the build part of the manual, sounds like your just too lazy to find out for yourself how to do the commands....its something called queue, just like in starcraft. Right in the area where you select what to build there are a bunch of little queue buttons all numbered out. From there you make your sequence.
Big Country	posted 04-28-99 01:13 AM ET heh...maybe you need to reread my original post..I know how to set the queue (again, see the original post)..I just don't like the interface...when there are 40-50 items to choose from, even setting the queue can be burdensome - especially when you have 30 to 40 freaking bases...again, I like the game, I just would like to see some improvements on game play...you are right, though, I probably am too lazy, and if the interface isn't improved in future versions, I probably won't buy another SMAC-based game, oh well..if anyone has something constructive to point out, as in how to avoid the cumbersome queue setting every time a new base is formed (man, wouldn't it be nice to be able to "preset" queues so that you could set up one or two typical queues for new bases -- and maybe it would automatically update certain units in the queues as more technologically advanced units become available -- for example, if you preset the queue so that you always build a defender first, then the defender could be automatically updated when you get better armor) I would appreciate it...this is probably just a pipe dream..I had the same issue with MOO2
Lord Biggun	posted 04-28-99 02:07 AM ET Preset queus are in fact possible. rite click the queu button or whatever in the base screen, and load and save preset queus to your liking...
Goobmeister	posted 04-28-99 10:49 AM ET Yopu can also go to prefrences and turn off the auto design of units, it really cuts down on the number of units. Just don't be like me the first time you do this and keep wondering why sea formers haven't been developed yet. Goob
Earwicker	posted 04-28-99 11:04 AM ET Or click "Retire Design" as it comes up if you aren't planning on building any. That way, you see what's available and can always go back and redesign it later if your needs change.
Cadrys	posted 04-28-99 03:42 PM ET Prune obsolete or useless designs in your workshop regularly. Turn off auto-design. That keeps the menu of buildable things to a single screen, easily dealt with.
Zozo	posted 04-28-99 06:38 PM ET Big Country is right on the money here. The !@^&#^@ unit build selection is what I hate the most. Having a relatively slow computer makes scrolling through the long list of units to build unbearable. I always try to finish the game before 2350 just so I don't have to deal with the headache. The one most glaring defect is that these units are not sorted in any order. In Civ2, all the ground units are next to each other from the cheapest to the most expensive units, then all the naval units together, all the air units, then all the miscellaneous units (spies & caravans), etc. In SMAC, they scatter all over the places it takes several minutes just to search for the units you want to put in the queue even when you know for sure that it is in the list somewhere. On my system, which is relatively slow, scrolling these units up and down has a delay of several seconds and so by the time I see the unit I want and click on it the screen would scroll and cause me to click on the wrong unit. Sometimes when I'm not careful I would be building something I have absolutely no need for because of this delayed scrolling. The big number of units makes the matter worse, but the issue is not as much as the number of units as a pretty much braindead interface. THe very first time I played SMAC I just wished that it only had a text interface (which would undoubtedly be fast to scroll) for me to select the units. All I need to see is something like "Amphibious chaos invaders (8~-4-1)" not rows ofter rows of black boxes which run up and down on their own (due to the delayed scrolling) and which all look alike in the first place. I still need to read the tiny little characters to select the units I want, not the graphics representation of those units which are all alike. And, if anybody has tried to use the Workshop to make some units obsolete and reduce the number of displayed units then it would be clear that this design is braindead. Each of the units is attached to a _fixed_ design slot in no particular order in the row of unit design at the botton of the screen. Whoever designed this UI must have thought human mind works like this: "I want to obsolete the Missile Infantry which, of course, I know is attached to slot #37, so let's search for slot #37 and make that design obsolete" instead of this: "I want to obsolete the Missile Infantry so let's see where the group of Infantry units are so I can find that design". BTW, back to being helpful, the way I tried to mitigate this problem is to cut down on the number of auto-desgined units substantially the moment they are offered, keeping only a few units I'm almost certain that I will need and make obsolete the rest of them right then. That will give me one or two units to build the prototypes for but won't clutter up the unit display.
Big Country	posted 04-28-99 07:19 PM ET WOW!!! Preset queues??? I'll try it out! And I hadn't thought of turning off auto-design. Thank a million guys!
dawgchild	posted 04-28-99 10:54 PM ET big country... this is off the subject. but in hearing that you've played moo2... i'd like to know your(and anyone else that had played it) opinion on the game. i bought pax imperia when it came out and i was EXTREMELY dissapointed with it. the game was fully hyped up and i was waiting for pax imperia for the longest time and when i purchased the damned thing sucked like hell so i returned it. i'm thinking of buying moo2 coz it's now cheaper but i wouldn't wanna waste my time if it's exactly like pax imperia. thanks in advance.
Big Country	posted 04-29-99 12:52 AM ET Just tried the preset queues -- awesome. It really speeded up gameplay -- as I was taking two or three of Miriam's bases a turn! Now, if I could just get that Santiago B*TCH to stop Planet Busting my home base! Man, I need those orbital satellite thingies! With regard to MOO2, I thought it was the best game I has ever played when it first came out. It is still a fun game today -- especially if you like the MOO1. By the way, is anyone else disappointed in the cinematics of SMAC? MOO2 had some nice cut scenes, but Starcraft blows the doors off SMAC when it comes to story line and cool movies. SMAC is clearly a better strategy game (man is it complex!), but I would really like to see more aspects to the game -- especially when you win! Man, was I disappointed when I conquered everyone for the first time, and basically got a screen saying "I won."
Plato90s	posted 04-29-99 11:05 AM ET Pre-set queues? I know you can set up a queue of up to 8 additional production items, and military unit production is always in an infinite loop unless otherwise specified. But if there is a way I can save a queue for reuse in other cities with a single click, I'd like to know.
Earwicker	posted 04-29-99 11:34 AM ET Enter the list of items you'd like, then right click on the Queue box, Save. In another city, right-click and Load the pre-set. You can even make a number of different queue lists for cities with different needs (one list for new bases, another for new sea-bases, another for old bases when you want a bunch of bases building a newly-available facility).
Bad Explanation	posted 05-01-99 02:08 PM ET **EASY WAY TO PRUNE UNITS FROM THE PRODUCTION SCREEN** Right -click on them. A menu with the option "make unit obsolete" appears. Select it, and viola! One thing I've learned in this game; if I'm frustrated with something, try right-clicking on it. I was really frustrated with doing all that queue-building also, then I right-clicked on the queue and found out I could save and load whole lists! Then the really slow production screen was getting on my nerves--I'd spend a lot of time pruning it down for speed by selecting every unit, clicking 'workshop', making the unit obsolete, then going back and doing the same thing to all the other unwanted units. This took a lot of time and the unit list just got longer and longer anyway. But then I started right-clikcing, and now it's really really easy to keep my list small and manageable. This should be somewhere under a 'tips' section, because it's handy short cuts like this that can make the difference between a fun time and a aggravation-fest.
Plato90s	posted 05-01-99 04:02 PM ET Another really annoying feature is that the AI is too stupid to automatically retire units. We have only 64 slots, and you'd think the AI could automatically remove unit designs which are obsolete and have no active units. Instead, I have to manually remove them to clear up more slots.
Zozo	posted 05-03-99 05:18 PM ET Bad Explanation, Thanks so much. This would make life much easier and maybe I can continue with the second half of the game rather than trying to finish ASAP by becoming the Supreme Leader in the early part of 2300's to avoid the headache of updating/pruning the units. One would have thought that the main Workshop menu would have a straightforward way to prune the units, especially since Fixrasis does recognize the problem with having too many units and recommend autoprune to be on (that's totally inadequate, BTW). Plato90s, Yesterday, I tried to upgrade the missile needlejet, which I got by mind-controlling a Hive city, to a fusion needlejet and it says that I have no advanced models available. I was really baffled so I looked at the Workshop screen and it turned out that the AI removed ALL of my aircraft models from the list, leaving behind such nice fancy antique units as the impact infantry. I spent between half an hour and an hour to go through the unit list and remove the old units which I never used in the first place. It's a terrible chore in something which is intended for entertaiment. BTW, I also pruned the scout rover and every time I make a new discovery, the program keeps trying to add the scout rover back, claiming that it is a new design !! BTW, I just can't understand why the graphis is so incredibly slow on my system (maybe it happens on other systems too but I don't know). I can play Starcraft and have hundreds of units moving around fighting each others in real time and there is no slowdown. Just moving a single unit from one place to another in SMAC is a real pain. It seems like the AI engine tries to update its whole database everytime the unit moves a single square. Checking for ZOC alone couldn't be that bad since all other units are stationary.
dawgchild	posted 05-03-99 11:40 PM ET big country... smac or moo2? which would you rather get if you can only have one. you are right about some of the cinematics in smac. there's not enough cut scenes when you win!!! after spending so much time to beat it... the last thing i want to do is read how i've won. as for the story line... nothing beats starcraft. i was really impressed with its features and really cool and very unique story.
sandals	posted 05-04-99 02:19 PM ET Zozo- To prune out old designs faster, bring up the queue list like you are going to build stuff, then right click on the obsolete designs & select 'obsolete.' It just takes a minute or two to prune a bunch of old designs. The slider handle on the right doesn't update correctly after that (v3), but I just find that a minor annoyance & got used to it.
Big Country	posted 05-04-99 07:48 PM ET Dawgchild - I would probably select SMAC over MOO2, but you have to realize that SMAC is MUCH MORE DIFFICULT to master than MOO2. If you have a short patience, then MOO2 might be the better choice. If I were rating the games on just winning one time, I would rate StarCraft far above any other strategy game. But the replayability award goes to SMAC hands down. Choosing among 7 factions makes the game very interesting to me.
dawgchild	posted 05-05-99 12:46 AM ET big country... well yeah replayability for smac is one of it's best features just like civ2... but realism on the other hand... well it's not that great. the plot of it's story is somewhat unlikely to happen in a colonization mission. why send a religious fanatic... a c.e.o.?!?... and a friggin mad scientist? didn't the u.n. screen their colonization candidates or they just picked people off the streets? one more thing is why would anyone want to kill their ship captain?!? ignoring the story line though... i pretty much enjoy the game but i think that civ2 is better than this.
Lloyd	posted 05-05-99 04:59 AM ET Big Country: Comparing the flavor presentation in Starcraft with SMAC is difficult because the pace and presentation of the games is so different. One similarity, though: I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of the content in both games, and still am. If you get a chance to check out CivII, you'll see what I mean--the only eye candy are the Wonder of the World movies in a tiny little video window. In a series of related games that focuses on strategy gameplay, I think SMAC is an enormous upgrade where flavor's concerned. I also think that the overall feel of the game (the "story") hangs together very well--better than expected. That's an area where Blizzard eats almost everyone else's lunch, so it's no insult to SMAC to call Starcraft better in that way. It's also about taste and what people are accustomed to seeing--I know a lot of people who share your opinion about Starcraft, but I don't entirely agree. It's good, but that "Larry King Live" talking-head setup got on my nerves after a while. CivII was a game that I was still dusting off and playing every few weeks almost three years after buying it. I hope you enjoy SMAC as much. dawgchild: Yeah, you're right--when the U.N. chose the thousands of people for the crew, they clearly should have made sure that after the disaster, the seven people who led the factions all agreed with each other. Let somebody have a story conceit once in a while. Lloyd George
dawgchild	posted 05-06-99 12:24 AM ET lloyd... if i remember correctly... they only started forming factions after the disaster. those 7 leaders i guess were the top members of the colonization effort but i couldn't understand why they would have such extreme "views" and that they differ so greatly from one another.
Lloyd	posted 05-06-99 06:41 AM ET That's what I thought was odd, dawgchild--by definition, the U.N. doesn't choose the faction leaders, since they're not sending the Ark to AC to start a 7-way rumble that will play well as a PC game. It's a story conceit--yeah, it's more likely that if the reactor failed, everyone would just die, but I didn't sign up to play that game. Thankfully, Firaxis and I are apparently on the same page where that's concerned. Are you that guy who complained that the Americans aren't a civilization in 2000 B.C. and that Eleanor Roosevelt could never live for 4000 years? Go play some ASL if you're going to be that way... Lloyd
dawgchild	posted 05-06-99 07:38 PM ET lloyd... well first of... i am being what way?!? i was just talking about it's realism compared to civ 2 and starcraft. at least in civ 2 the americans "could have been" there and they don't have to be any existing nation that we know of. ... and a reactor failure doesn't necessarily mean death but the last thing that can happen when facing such crisis is someone saying... "ok those who loves nature come with me and those who love to be ruled by an iron hand and be opressed, go with yang!" for sixty bucks a game firaxis could've at least gave more of an effort on it's story line. don't get me wrong i love the game play i was merely stating that it could've been better.